The Nineteenth Byte

Adám

11:00 PM

First time I see 1 2 2⍉ I think.

rak1507

1 2 2⍉

wow

Adám

I would have done 1 1⍉⍤2 for clarity.

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString For your Jelly tip: Specifically, if the links grouped together are an LCC without the leading constant (aka, if they are monads, dyad-nilad pairs or nilad-dyad pairs) then it'll ignore the right argument passed to it when making it dyadic (so if the chain looks like 2,¹,(1|2,0|0,2)$ƊƲ it can become 2,(1|2,0|0,2)¥ɗʋ)

rak1507

@Adám so that's what it does

Adám

See‽

rak1507

11:00 PM

fair play to whoever that is for doing something extremely cool

Jonah

@Bubbler Fair enough. Thanks from m&, answer. I didn't realize b. _1 return dynamic answers like that...

rak1507

does the code work? I cba testing

caird coinheringaahing

@Jonah I know close to nothing about bash, but I think that just looping over each line and applying an if is likely to be the shortest, barring some crazy clever trick

Adám

@rak1507 Yes. And not the only 3D one.

{1=≢∪,+/↑((⊢⍪1 1∘⍉)¨(⊂,⊂∘⌽∘⍉))⍵} too.

Jonah

@cairdcoinheringaahing Possibly. It feels like you should be able to do with sed or awk succinctly, but I'm not seeing a great way.

caird coinheringaahing

11:03 PM

If you know yes will never be in the lines, you can replace foo with yes, then replace everything that isn't yes with no

Adám

(Why is there white powder all over my laptop‽)

Jonah

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's not bad. Thanks.

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám I don't know if this is a cocaine joke or not

rak1507

cleaning it up a bit, ∧/2=/1⊥⊢,⍉,2 1 1⍉⊢↑⍤,⍥⊆⌽

caird coinheringaahing

@Jonah It's not much, but happy to help :)

Unrelated String

11:05 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing good point

rak1507

that last bit is pretty horrible I feel like there might be something better

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing No. As far as I know, I don't possess any. But then again, if I did, I might not be aware of it…

rak1507

I need to try more elaborate dyadic transposes in future...

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Clearly your children keep spilling their stash on your keyboard :P

Adám

@rak1507 Dyadic transpose and the rank operator are the keys to the array kingdom.

rak1507

11:06 PM

I think I've just about figured out rank, apart from 3 argument rank

dyadic transpose still eludes me though

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Darn, they start early, these days, don't they‽ (They are 7 and 9.)

rak1507

apart from very simple things like 2 1 3⍉

Adám

@rak1507 You mean ⍤p q r?

rak1507

yea

don't think I've ever used that

Adám

It is only useful for ambivalent functions.

p is used if called monadically.

q r is used if called dyadically.

rak1507

11:08 PM

ah right, yeah, not particularly useful (to me anyway)

Bubbler

You won't need it for problem solving purposes

Adám

@rak1507 Have you mastered multiple rank?

rak1507

@Adám as in f⍤...⍤...? maybe not 'mastered' but I've used it once or twice

Adám

Yes.

rak1507

in The APL Orchard, Jan 20 at 14:40, by rak1507

@xpqz I used double rank once and I felt like a god

still true

I think I had double rank in a phase 2 solution but replaced it with something nicer

Adám

11:11 PM

CMC: Given a list of length n and a 3D array with n rows in each layer, append each element from the list to the corresponding row in each layer.

caird coinheringaahing

Can you provide an example?

Adám

Example list [10,20,30,40] and array:

[[[1,2],
  [3,4],
  [5,6],
  [7,8]],
 [[9,10],
  [11,12],
  [13,14],
  [15,16]]]

Result:

[[[1,2,10],
  [3,4,20],
  [5,6,30],
  [7,8,40]],
 [[9,10,10],
  [11,12,20],
  [13,14,30],
  [15,16,40]]]

caird coinheringaahing

Jelly, 3 bytes ;"€

rak1507

,⍤1 0⍤2 1

Adám

@rak1507 You can strip away the final 1

rak1507

11:13 PM

oh, true

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing For once, a Jelly answer I can type without copy-paste :P

rak1507

,⍤¯1⍤2

Adám

Yes, that too.

So ∾˘⎉2 in BQN.

rak1507

wait, ,⍤2 works as well anyway

Adám

Oh, bad example.

rak1507

11:16 PM

yeah, I was too busy thinking of double rank to see the single rank solution :P

hey, ties jelly! yay

Adám

Me too.

Let's come up with a different operation than concatenation.

(Or actually, I should get my webinar ready…)

rak1507

any arbitrary function f: f⍤¯1⍤2

Adám

Yeah.

New Posts

0

Q: What's my PIN number?

My PIN number is 1077, but that's too difficult to remember. I know from muscle memory that it's a digit, followed by a different digit, then followed by two of the same digit, which is different to the other two digits before it. As a pattern, we can say it is ABCC (where each letter represents...

caird coinheringaahing

No one steal all my money please :P

Adám

11:20 PM

Is it really?

caird coinheringaahing

No :P

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Don't worry, I'll leave some for you.

caird coinheringaahing

Click the link on 1077 :P

rak1507

what do you think of ⍺⍺ and ⍵⍵ to mean the right and left operand but of a 'tacit operator' if outside of an operator? so you could do (⍺⍺⍤¯1⍤2) to mean {⍺⍺⍤¯1⍤¯2⊢⍵}

lyxal

@NewPosts hehe I have an idea of what your pin is now

rak1507

11:20 PM

the j talk with henry rich got me thinking a bit about the forbidden conjunctions

Adám

@rak1507 What would happen if such a tacit operator was used in a dfn?

@rak1507 Did you read about (the other) Jx?

rak1507

it would not work, so you'd have to do it in the global scope

Adám

Ugh.

rak1507

@Adám no, I don't think so

Jonah

@rak1507 which J talk is that?

rak1507

11:21 PM

@Jonah latest episode of arraycast

caird coinheringaahing

@NewPosts I suppose I've limited the guesses for anyone trying to guess my pin from 1000 possible combinations to 999 :P

rak1507

oh, 'j talk' should be 'conversation about j'

or 'podcast involving the mention of j'

Jonah

Thanks, I'll check it out.

rak1507

@Adám yeah, agreed, what about ⍺ underline and ⍵ underline?

Bubbler

@NewPosts So 7! equals 10P4 = 10×9×8×7

Adám

11:22 PM

@rak1507 Better use ⫤ and ⊨ for tacit, no?

rak1507

those are good too

Adám

@rak1507 2bestsystems.com/foundation/j/jx1

rak1507

I think it would be extremely fun to make tacit operators

Adám

As if tacit wasn't unreadable enough.

J also allows recursive tacit functions.

Very confusing (to me, at least) how far out (of nested tacit functions) the recursion reaches.

rak1507

@Adám hey, not going to go as far as a certain phase 1 solution :)

caird coinheringaahing

11:24 PM

@Bubbler The lengths of each: [10, 90, 90, 90, 720, 90, 90, 720, 90, 90, 720, 720, 720, 720, 5040] (same order as listed in the test cases)

rak1507

there's certainly ways to overdo it but for simple things it could avoid a lot of operator-y boilerplate

Adám

@rak1507 Hm, I've not added any entry for "pornography" to APLcart…

caird coinheringaahing

...

rak1507

@Adám have you got any for the new interns to catalogue? :P

Adám

;-)

apl.wiki/Pornography

caird coinheringaahing

11:26 PM

> Readability
(Redirected from Pornography)

..wha

Adám

Keep reading!

caird coinheringaahing

If there's one thing I don;t think I've ever associated porn with, it's reading :P

Bubbler

Any feedback?

caird coinheringaahing

> APLers have traditionally used pornography to describe code that is hard to read

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Didn't people read porn before videos became common?

rak1507

11:27 PM

a←4
(a+3)×a
shouldn't this be
(a←3)×a if I'm understanding it right?

caird coinheringaahing

Huh, interesting. I've always associated calling things "porn" (in a non-sexual way) as being elegant/beautiful examples, and I wouldn't say "hard to read code" falls under that

Redwolf Programs

^

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám I'm 19, so I have no experience with that :P

AviFS

Oooh, juicy!

Adám

@rak1507 Yes, typo. Will fix.

I fixed the faulty pornography. How should I feel about that‽

AviFS

11:30 PM

@Adám Definitely not what I was hoping for :P

rak1507

can I put 'pornography proof reader' on my cv now?

4

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well, respected companies used that term with this meaning, in official documentation, so…

AviFS

> Code golf often results in pornographic code, as does the practice of cramming a whole algorithm into a single line, forming a one-liner.

I guess we're porn stars now...

@cairdcoinheringaahing I agree. That's totally been my association.

Adám

If some posts porn in chat and another stars it, the star is a porn star, no?

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Clicked links are very close to black for me, I genuinely thought you'd forgotten the link to here on aplwiki.com/wiki/Code_golf until I hovered over it and saw the underline

AviFS

11:32 PM

I've always heard it with a positive association in the context of code. Using it to describe bad code is new to me

caird coinheringaahing

Makes it very difficult to discern what is a link I've clicked and just regular text

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Interesting. Default Wikipedia styling.

rak1507

yeah I would think of it as being particularly beautiful apl code or something like that

Redwolf Programs

"Hot monads in your area"

2

AviFS

hahahaha

caird coinheringaahing

11:33 PM

Stuff like r/EarthPorn come to mind

AviFS

@rak1507 Yeah, same. To me "porn" is synonymous with "eye-candy"

caird coinheringaahing

Can't forget about the entirely non-sexual r/HumanPorn :P

Adám

Anyone up for some ternary association?

AviFS

Haha, good one

How about some dyadic linking?

rak1507

@RedwolfPrograms if you have monads in golang would they be gonads? :P

2

lyxal

11:34 PM

r/yourjokebutbetter

AviFS

I think that's a Jelly thing though, assuming it makes sense even there

Adám

CMC: enclosed intersection of the union and the mixed-radix representation

rak1507

'monad' can mean single arg function or a monoid in the category of endofunctors :P

caird coinheringaahing

Especially kinky Jelly coders use chains in their pornography :P

3

user

Jesus, I go away for 10 minutes and y'all are talking about porn

lyxal

11:35 PM

what the actual hell

10 mins ago, 9 minutes total – 42 messages, 7 users, 7 stars

Bookmarked just now by lyxal

Redwolf Programs

K coders use trains, which is a bit concerning

caird coinheringaahing

Oh hey Lynn! We're being totally normal here :P

user

@Adám What does that mean?

caird coinheringaahing

Nothing strange to see whatsoever :P

rak1507

@Adám I see what you did there

Adám

11:36 PM

;-)

AviFS

Lmao, I just got it

Adám

@user I was looking for the tacit equivalent of {⊂(⍺∪⍵)∩(⍺⊤⍵)}

user

Ah

caird coinheringaahing

Given the topic and that it's evening/night for a lot of people, can we legitimately call this CGCC after dark? :P

rak1507

when is CGCC's watershed?

Adám

11:38 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing We're discussing the qualities of golfed production code. Can't really be more on-topic than that.

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing No wonder things took a turn

caird coinheringaahing

@user Some things might be best left unsaid :)

lyxal

@user fair dinkum!

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have unsaid it

Why is the entire starboard just monads and porn now lol

rak1507

same thing to some haskellers

caird coinheringaahing

11:40 PM

The TNB rule: every sufficiently long conversation will eventually resort to talking about porn :P

user

Rule 35? :P

AviFS

Dyads are all well and good, but let's have us some tryads

Bubbler

That must be rule 19 :P

5

Adám

Rule 69, no?

2

caird coinheringaahing

Why is nobody following rule 34? Always be nice to everyone! :P

user

11:41 PM

I have some accompanying visuals for that one... :P

rak1507

@AviFS arthur whitney wasn't satisfied with APL's limits so went all the way up to octads

Adám

Also known as group… oh.

AviFS

I don't know, that might start getting a bit uncomfortable

caird coinheringaahing

So Imm going to go ahead and just clear all the single-starred messages once this is done :P

user

@rak1507 I thought K could take any number of arguments

AviFS

11:42 PM

Haha, I can't believe we're actually doing this

rak1507

@user nah there's a limit of 8

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Everybody, star the single starred-messages! :P

lyxal

Meanwhile I'm over here learning about C++ and class stuff

Adám

@user We frown upon asking for stars.

user

Lisp programmers love sexprs

@Adám :(

AviFS

11:43 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing @Adám I think he just meant it jokingly to bypass caird's rule

rak1507

@lyxal are you learning about inheritance?

lyxal

Serious question: who at C++ thought bit-shifting a function was the best way to have output

user

I quite like the syntax, actually

lyxal

@rak1507 no, abstract things

user

Operator overloading is amazing

caird coinheringaahing

11:45 PM

@lyxal I understand each word together, but wtf?

Bubbler

@lyxal std::cout is an object, not a function

user

cout << "shift"

caird coinheringaahing

I never really thought about std::cout << "string" as being bit shifting, 🤢

Bubbler

<< is a function

user

A method, right?

lyxal

11:46 PM

Serious question: who at C++ thought bit-shifting ~~a function~~ an object was the best way to have output

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Because it's not

@lyxal It looks nice, like you're jamming something into a stream

Same with cin

lyxal

@user it is, it's just an operator overload

user

I guess print("foobar") is more regular, though

@lyxal Right, the operator doesn't have to mean bit shifting if it's not working on numbers

lyxal

the question is more: who thought "hey, let's overload bit-shifting to make output happen?"

Bubbler

Well, it just happens to be a suitable-looking operator (or at least it was for language designers)

user

11:48 PM

^

Bubbler

and I'm pretty sure no one thought about bit-shifting in that context

rak1507

in python you can redefine __irshift__ on things so you can put >>= everywhere to make things look like haskell :P

caird coinheringaahing

It is slightly reminiscent of APL's output method

dzaima

@Bubbler more importantly though it introduces precedence issues

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing std::cout="foobar" would be more like that but I see what you mean

the idea of using something vaguely arrow like is the same

user

11:50 PM

@rak1507 That would be pretty horrifying, though

Bubbler

@dzaima Yeah but you're supposed to wrap things in parens when you're not sure about precedence

rak1507

@user agreed

dzaima

@Bubbler caring about precedence is not something I should need to do when outputting things

user

Honestly, I wish APL had a ⎕P to print or something

It looks weird to assign to ⎕ and read it and get different values each time

rak1507

I'm not sure what good IO would look like in an array lang, I'm not a big fan of how any of them do it

⎕readln (or something shorter) with an optional prompt left arg and ⎕print would probably be the most similar to other things

dzaima

11:52 PM

@user BQN does that

Adám

@user You can just define ∆P←{⎕←⍵} as I've done.

user

Printing would be a monadic function, but idk about input

@dzaima How does it take input? Is it a single magic value, or a function with a useless parameter?

Bubbler

Input is a niladic function

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 I don't mind Jelly's way tbh

rak1507

input in APL is historically different to input in other langs anyway because you can do completely cursed things like overwrite the input prompt

Adám

11:52 PM

@rak1507 But what would the right argument be?

caird coinheringaahing

It's implicit STDIN for ¡ and # are a bit weird but otherwise it makes sense

user

Anything, probably

dzaima

@user currently there's nothing for taking input in the standard :P

Adám

Ugh.

rak1507

@Adám oh good point in that case just have the right arg be the prompt

and then for no prompt it'd just be ⎕readln ''

(I think I did think of something but I can't remember what. oh well)

user

11:53 PM

@rak1507 That's actually a great idea

rak1507

⍞ has the problem that you can erase the prompt too

Adám

fwiw, I've suggested adding ⎕PROMPT to clean up the current issues.

rak1507

I think considering ⍞ exists it is mostly ok to use rather than an entirely new thing, just that it was designed 'interestingly' from the start. I'm not going to necessarily say wrongly because I know back then when it was designed people liked to do all sorts of crazy things :P

AviFS

@Adám That seems like a good idea

Naively, given whatever bit I know, at least

Adám

Well, when it was designed, you couldn't remove characters from the prompt, since they were printed with ink.

rak1507

11:56 PM

oh, so that's a modern choice?! in that case, it's a terrible design! what were you thinking dyalog!

AviFS

That was a while ago, though :p

Adám

@rak1507 If you run as a terminal application, it doesn't let you remove the prompt either.

rak1507

oh right that's good

user

@Adám Wait what?

rak1507

⍞ is pretty much fine then

Adám

11:57 PM

@rak1507 No, because getting the value from ⍞ includes the prompt.

dzaima

@Adám you can on linux at least

Adám

Oh :-(

@dzaima No, not the TTY interface.

As an actual packaged runtime application.

rak1507

prompt←{(≢⍵)↓⍞⊣⍞←⍵}

and rely on users not breaking things :P

Adám

APL+ had some magic incantation, ⎕ARBOUT ⍬ or something, that would "reset" the cursor position so ⍞ didn't allow backspacing, and the value didn't include the prompt.

@rak1507 That's very unsafe.

rak1507

I like to live dangerously

what the actual hell

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