The Nineteenth Byte

Anush

12:01

@ngn :)

What is the shortest Java program?

ngn

class A{public static void main(String[]a){}}

@Anush ^ or something like that

A username

enum?

interface?

o/

Anush

Public static void main....wow

I am so glad I have never written a line of java

@ngn is k no good for the knapsack challenge?

ngn

@Anush why wouldn't it be?

Anush

You haven't submitted an answer in k yet :)

I am tempted to add a bounty for answers in my favourite programming languages

ngn

12:16

@Anush maybe later. i want to solve the latest project euler first, seems easy.

Anush

C, C++, nim, rust, Julia

Any other fast languages I could include?

Razetime

K

K is pretty fast

i'm not sure how i'd performance compare with those langs

Sandbox Posts

12:33

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Is this a valid Temtem character name? Given a string of between 0 and 15 (inclusive) printable ASCII characters, determine whether the string represents an acceptable character name for the game Temtem. The following rules apply to character names: Names must have at least 3 letters (a-z) Names...

Anush

12:44

@ngn good idea

EliteDaMyth

12:56

@Anush haskell can be pretty fast too

math

@all Epic talk of the creator of Python: Python 4.0 is going to be a golfing language!!!

That can't be, can it?

Anush

@EliteDaMyth good point

EliteDaMyth

though i dont know any haskell, i feel a functional approach to this would be interesting.

Anush

Actually the knapsack challenge in Haskell looks interesting

Snap :)

Razetime

most imperative algorithms get interesting when you want the same efficiency in a different paradigm

Anush

13:01

I can imagine

rosettacode.org/wiki/Averages/Median#Haskell

I guess it would look a little like that

EliteDaMyth

my first post on CGCC was a knapsack problem

21

Q: The Rod Cutting problem

Given a rod of length n inches and a list of prices that contains prices of all pieces of size smaller than n. Determine the maximum value obtainable by cutting up the rod and selling the pieces. For example, if length of the rod is 8 and the values of different pieces are given as following, the...

code-golf

Anush

@EliteDaMyth nice!

math

@lyxal what did I do wrong?

lyxal

?

@math What do you mean?

math

13:16

@lyxal the rickroll

ain't that catchy?

lyxal

@math too much supply in a small amount of time

The effect of being rickrolled is lost once there's too many links circulating the market

Because once you pass a certain quantity, if someone falls for your trap, it's not as clever as it would be as if you got them on the first try

@math it's catchy, but you gotta be more subtle

Less obvious

math

ok thanks

Lyxal explains how to rickroll part 2

3 mins ago, 2 minutes total – 5 messages, 1 user, 0 stars

Bookmarked 6 secs ago by math

for others

lyxal

There's a part 1?

math

yes

Recursive Co.

I wanna see it

math

13:21

wait a sec

@lyxal you did it

Lyxal explains the rickroll economy

yesterday, 9 minutes total – 25 messages, 4 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked yesterday by lyxal

lyxal

Smh

Wasted a perfectly good opportunity there

See you coulda bait and switched on that link and epicly pranked someone

That would have been an exception to the rule of subtlety

math

oh no

lyxal

I had a list of 22 tips for rickrolling once

@user was it you I shared the rickroll tips list with?

Regardless, I'm off to sleep now

PyGamer0

Any feedback

rak1507

13:37

maybe a diagram would be useful

or a link to the oeis page (it must be in there)

ngn

@PyGamer0 "non-negative non-zero odd integer" - you can omit "non-zero"

Razetime

@PyGamer0 grid should be size n×n

you should probably rip a graphic off the internet

and maybe link to an algorithm

@PyGamer0 elaborate on allowed moves, are diagonal moves allowed

ngn

13:53

oh no, what happened to wikipedia

math

Does someone have a link to that challenge where you have to print an ascii art keyboard? I'm not finding it.

Razetime

do save your links next time

I have a bunch of good questions saved in notion

math

found it

ngn

@ngn its layout relies on its ad scripts!

user

14:30

@lyxal Yep

@ngn Even with an interface pr a static initializer , it’s kinda long

but thats not a great meadure of a language anyway

Sandbox Posts

15:09

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

I pressed a key In this challenge, Magic Octopus Um challenged you to print a keyboard in ascii-art. In this challenge, I'm giving his keyboard as the input... but with a key pressed. Your program should output which key I pressed. What is a pressed key A pressed key is an individual key, but the...

hyper-neutrino

@math it's "Urn" not "Um"

math

oh

user

ninja'd :P

hyper-neutrino

your comment was posted at 15:10:02 UTC time

my message was sent at "3:09" in the chat log (so 3:09:59 at the latest) therefore I ninja'd you :p

user

Yes, you ninja'd me

Ninja'd 9edit)

hyper-neutrino

15:12

is there any way to see when a message was sent/edited down to the second?

user

Hack into someone's computer and install a script that records when they send messages?

hyper-neutrino

lol

i mean at that point it's easier to just log activities via a chatbot

user

But you won't see when they sent a message if their internet's laggy

hyper-neutrino

true, but what matters is the time that the server received it

user

That's punishing people like caird who have a bad internet connection because of telepathy :P

Adám

15:17

@SandboxPosts CMC: Given a multi-line all-ASCII input, return the one and only sequence of non-space characters that immediately follow |

user

APL: '\| ([^ ]+)'⎕S'\1'?

Adám

@user You can save 2 bytes with \S instead of [^ ]

user

Oh nice

Adám

More of a Perl golf than an APL golf.

hyper-neutrino

i was trying to work out how quads worked so i got

\| (\S+)
\1

which is literally the same thing as user's xD

user

15:22

QuadS and QuadR are practically cheating /s

Adám

Or put differently: Dyalog APL has such powerful built-ins, that three of them warrant packaging up as separate programming languages.

hyper-neutrino

wait, what's the third?

user

Windows

Adám

Stencil.

hyper-neutrino

ah

Adám

15:24

A.k.a. the Game-of-Life operator.

user

@Adám Oops, I keep forgetting the name

⌹ Quad Diamond, apparently

hyper-neutrino

⌺

user

Oops

hyper-neutrino

:p

PyGamer0

@Razetime idk where is the algorithm

hyper-neutrino

15:25

~ not +

Adám

@user That's Domino, a.k.a. Quad-Divide, a.k.a. matrix division/inversion.

user

All the little squares look the same to me :P

hyper-neutrino

how many quads are there even

Adám

In use or in Unicode?

user

⌺⌹⍠⎕⌸⍞ (honorary mention for ⌷)

hyper-neutrino

15:26

@Adám both, i suppose, unless there are too many unicode ones to count

oh wait ⌺'s official unicode name is APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL QUAD DIAMOND?

APL predates unicode doesn't it? or i think i heard smth about that

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Unicode

hyper-neutrino

oh cool

user

I've never seen most of those before, are those used by other APLs?

Adám

@hyper-neutrino APL predates almost everything with connection to today's computing.

pxeger

⌸⌹⌺⌻⌼⍁⍂⍃⍌⍄⍇⍈⍍⍐⍓⍔⍗⍞⍠⍯⍰⎕

that's not every one in Unicode

(+ squish quad ⌷)

hyper-neutrino

15:30

APL feels really modern to me even though it's one of the oldest. that might just be because array languages are somewhat new to me and since they're really powerful for manipulating arrays and math-like things it feels more modern to me even though the math concepts have been aruond forever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Adám

@user ⍁ is used for dzaima/APL's Diagonals and APL/700 used both that and most of the rest for file operations.

user

Oh, I see

Adám

Unicode normally only adds glyphs that are already in use. E.g. Iverson used ⍩ but not the mirrored one, so that wasn't added (though ᑈ and ᐵ exist as Canadian Syllabics).

hyper-neutrino

15:54

I wish they added all of the over/under-dot modified latin characters

cuz like, even if some of them aren't used by any languages, if they're needed in the future, won't the codeblock be broken apart or smth

and also because it'd be nice for golfing language codepages to have them all xD

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino codeblock consistency is not typically one of Unicode's high priorities

hyper-neutrino

ah :(

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino that's why I use Braille, because it's 100% consistent for bytes

Adám

@hyper-neutrino They are only there for legacy compatibility. Unicode's vision is using combining characters for diacritics.

hyper-neutrino

@Adám oh, i see. that makes sense

Adám

16:03

In principle, even APL could use combining characters, as it originally did.

hyper-neutrino

@Adám is the part where it says "would instead be typed using APL+O for ⍟ followed by backspace" supposed to have ○ instead of ⍟?

also that's a cool bit of history

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Yes, typo. Fixed.

hyper-neutrino

@Razetime how do you supply command line flags using your TIO function for APLgolf

or do I need to modify the function

Razetime

do you see the comment in the TIO function

hyper-neutrino

yes - i think i roughly understand that

Razetime

16:09

I don't supply flags to the api since APL doesn't use them

hyper-neutrino

ah okay

Razetime

i think all args need to be separated by null bytes

hyper-neutrino

oh, okay thanks. i'll try that out

Razetime

if you understand python better, here's caird's script for jelly: github.com/cairdcoinheringaahing/JHTBot/blob/master/tio.py

hyper-neutrino

let fLength = encoder.encode(flags).length;
let rBody = "Vlang\x001\x00" + lang + "\x00F.code.tio\x00" + length + "\x00" + code + "F.input.tio\x00" + iLength + "\x00" + input + "Vargs\x00" + fLength + flags + "\x00R";

@Razetime oh yeah i'll look at that instead lol, thanks

Razetime

16:12

it uses args since jelly needs them

should make a lot more sense

also, caird had a message somewhere with a full explanation in talk.tio

probably bookmarked

hyper-neutrino

okay i got it working, thanks :P

Razetime

in talk.tryitonline.net, Dec 30 '20 at 14:32, by icecub

Hey everyone. Got a small question. Is it possible to approach TIO through an API or maybe CURL or something like that? Reason I'm asking is because I'm interested in making a chat bot where users can send small code snippets towards it and get the result returned :)

just for future reference

hyper-neutrino

nice, thank you

Adám

16:32

This is what TopAnswers uses.

caird coinheringaahing

@NewPosts "Old question, closed as opinion-based" "New question, asks the same opinion based question"

Anush

16:56

I am thinking of adding a bounty for the answer that has answers in the largest number of languages. Is that allowed?

hyper-neutrino

do you mean the question that has answers in [...] ?

also you're free to do pretty much anything (within reasonable restriction of course) with bounties; after all, it's your own rep

caird coinheringaahing

(aisde from the obvious voter/reputation fraud, but if you're operating in good faith, you don't need to worry about that)

Anush

@hyper-neutrino yes and thanks!

hyper-neutrino

what's the intended purpose of the bounty though @Anush?

caird coinheringaahing

17:11

Also, you can't award bounties to questions

Adám

@hyper-neutrino @Razetime TIO.Run in APL

hyper-neutrino

ooh. that's cool

Razetime

this has no conga right

only Httpcommand stuff

Anush

Bounty posted. I hope it's clear

Adám

@Razetime HttpCommand is an interface to Conga.

Razetime

17:14

hm

Anush

@hyper-neutrino to get answers from the list of languages given

hyper-neutrino

oh so you did mean "the answer that has answers in the largest number of languages"

Anush

@cairdcoinheringaahing is for answers

@hyper-neutrino I did!

hyper-neutrino

oops. i thought you wanted to select a question that currently has been answered in the most languages

Anush

No :)

caird coinheringaahing

17:16

Check out the polyglot and rosetta-code tags

hyper-neutrino

although, answers in different languages, or even just that use different solutions in the same language, are typically encouraged to be posted as separate answers

Anush

That's fine

caird coinheringaahing

I suspect it'll be the latest answer the "Add a language to a polyglot"

Razetime

basically anything from stasoid lol

Anush

I'll just award the bounty to one of the answers from someone who posts several

hyper-neutrino

17:17

the bounty is to get answers in multiple languages on a specific challenge :p

specifically the fast continuous knapsack one - not just "most languages in one answer across the site"

Anush

The only hard one is Haskell

hyper-neutrino

isn't even a polyglot challenge/bounty

Anush

It isn't!

I feel I may have done something new :)

You should be and to translate the python code to Nim or Julia really easily

hyper-neutrino

i'm not gonna do that especially to claim a bounty though lol. and i don't typically like solving restrictive challenges including fast time/algo and restricted src / radiation challenges

i pretty much only just do vanilla golf lol

Anush

@hyper-neutrino shame :)

hyper-neutrino

17:21

the python answerer might be interested in the bounty and do it though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anush

I meant..it should be really easy to translate...

@hyper-neutrino and then they have Haskell and C to worry about :)

Razetime

i assume the bounty is for whoever has the most first answers across all languages

Anush

@Razetime yes....well sort of

Razetime

if you port nim rust julia and C you win easily

ngn

what counts as a language?

Anush

17:22

@ngn what do you mean?

Razetime

whatever is listed in the bounty

Anush

@Razetime what about Haskell?

Razetime

haskell is tough to engineer efficient solutions

Anush

Yes! But I know it's possible here. You can find linear time median code online

And this is similar

Razetime

it's in about the same level as APL for the difficulty in finding an optimized route for a problem

ngn

17:24

@Anush for instance are different c standards different languages? what about different compilers? different flags?

Anush

@ngn one in each language

You can pick your favourite C standard

But you should only have one C answer

I feel a bit sorry for Nim because Julia might have made it irrelevant

If anyone does all 6 I will be very impressed

Razetime

nim is pretty different from julia

Anush

@Razetime tell me more please

Razetime

most people in this chatroom could probably sweat out all 6

hyper-neutrino

if I really wanted to I could but TBH it's a) not worth +50 and b) I really don't want to just port the same thing to 6 languages

Razetime

17:28

considering there's more than one O(n) implementation to borrow from

hyper-neutrino

with enough time and effort i could port to most languages with reasonable documentation, at least in theory

Anush

amp.reddit.com/r/Julia/comments/8qu8rt/…

@Razetime I am impressed

@hyper-neutrino how much is it worth?

hyper-neutrino

depends who you ask. some people might want to take up the challenge just for fun :p

Anush

I hope so!

Newly Featured Posts

13

Q: Continuous knapsack but fast

The input for the continuous knapsack problem is as follows. For each item 1...n we are given a positive weight and profit. Overall we are also given a positive capacity which is the maximum weight we can carry. The goal is to pick items so that the profit is maximized without exceeding the capa...

code-golf restricted-complexity

Redwolf Programs

17:53

Okay wth I had a dream one of the users here (I think it was HN) didn't actually exist and was just someone I knew like ten years ago playing a prank on me

caird coinheringaahing

Of course hyper neutrino doesn't exist, there's only 3 types of neutrinos

user

18:11

@RedwolfPrograms But that means HN did exist, doesn't it?

In your dream, I mean

Redwolf Programs

I have no idea

Anush

@cairdcoinheringaahing I didn't know that!

caird coinheringaahing

I just got this error message on SEDE because I forgot to type one character ಠ_ಠ

user

18:29

Wow, of all the invalid names I've seen, that's got to be the invalidest one

Redwolf Programs

in Parsing TIO, 7 mins ago, by Redwolf Programs

tiopl.js

Generates TIO links

2

Works without any APIs, requires one dependency due to TIO using compression, but that's only 40 KiB or so

hyper-neutrino

18:50

@RedwolfPrograms dammit, you figured it out?

Redwolf Programs

19:04

Why does google translate think my name is in arabic lol

But only sometimes

user

19:18

Becauase you keep putting RTL overrides everywhere ಠ_ಠ

pxeger

19:36

‮Lies! Redwolf would never do that!

omg Redwolf backwards is flowdeR

that would be quite a neat alter ego

AJFaraday

Here’s a tricky question: working on a challenge, with a handful of example entries in the project. Trouble is, the latest one is kinda indomitable... should I keep that in or nerf it before posting to encourage more entries?

caird coinheringaahing

Is this is Dwarf/Troll game KotH?

pxeger

Is completion of it required?

AJFaraday

That’s the one

pxeger

If not, then just leave it in with a note saying "this is hard; your program doesn't necessarily have to be able to do it in practical terms" or similar

Redwolf Programs

19:42

If a KotH has a somewhat simple solution that's extremely hard to defeat, that's likely a sign of a low skill ceiling

caird coinheringaahing

Generally, when adding example bots for KotHs, you don't want any to be especially good

AJFaraday

Completion isn’t required, but it’ll probably show up on the scoreboard.

caird coinheringaahing

You've had more time than anyone else to prepare bots for this, so if you create one that is basically undefeatable, it's not exactly fair

AJFaraday

Sounds like the consensus is for the defaults to just be simple examples.

caird coinheringaahing

If you have a good bot, I'd suggest posting that as an answer a week or so after the challenge starts

Redwolf Programs

19:48

This KotH sounds interesting, is it sandboxed somewhere?

AJFaraday

It’s got an entry in the Sandbox post. Search for “Thud”.

You can play with the game (in progress) at ajfaraday.github.io/Thud/dist/index.html

It was sandboxed maybe a week back

Redwolf Programs

Does shoving a troll do anything to dwarves in the way, or does it just "teleport" to the destination?

AJFaraday

It kills all adjacent drawers, same as moving. It just allows moving a bit further

If you’re taking a look at the code, I’ve accidentally put the “too strong” version of the spread_out troll behaviour online.

caird coinheringaahing

21:02

Can y'all believe that no post from WindowsPhone.SE has ever hit HNQ???

Redwolf Programs

Believe it or not, I can :p

ngn

@cairdcoinheringaahing yes :)

caird coinheringaahing

Other sites that have never hit the HNQ: Language Learning, Russian Language, Cardano, Beer/Spirits/Wine, ExpressionEngine, Eosio, EBooks, ElementaryOS, Stellar, Tor, Vegetarians

Redwolf Programs

Cardano most certainly has

caird coinheringaahing

wait

Redwolf Programs

21:06

There's a Vegetarians site?

Seems like a subset of Seasoned Advice

ngn

@RedwolfPrograms there's Beer/Spirits/Wine! much more interesting :)

caird coinheringaahing

Those are the sites that didn't hit HNQ in 2020. The actual list (never hit HNQ) is: Vegetarians, Windows Phone, ExpressionEngine, EBooks, Language Learning, Russian Language

(Plus Meta and StackApps, but they can't hit HNQ)

Redwolf Programs

I swear I've seen a Russian Language question in the HNQs...

caird coinheringaahing

I think there are 2 Russian Language sites (similar to ELU and ELL), and it's rus.stackexchange.com that hasn't hit HNQ

Redwolf Programs

Oh, that makes sense

Adám

21:10

Don't worry, they get plenty of attention via chat flags.

Redwolf Programs

Quick reminder, btw: Don't click "not sure" for chat flags in languages you don't know, because it counts as a fraction of an "invalid" response

hyper-neutrino

1/5 to be precise

Adám

@RedwolfPrograms Oh, thank you. I didn't know.

(That seems like a strange system to me.)

Redwolf Programs

I thought of that yesterday and meant to post it here and that reminded me :p

hyper-neutrino

@Adám I agree

caird coinheringaahing

21:12

@RedwolfPrograms I tend to use auto-translate to get the gist of the message

Adám

But by then it is too late

caird coinheringaahing

My browser auto-translates as soon as I enter the room, which I always do with flags

Adám

Ooh.

caird coinheringaahing

Aside from someone being very spammy, or incredibly offensive, you generally need context to make a proper judgement

Plus, you can see all pending flags at /admin/flagged

smci

Revert #11 of this is unhelpful, but I don't yet have the rep to flag it.

caird coinheringaahing

21:14

My revision?

I'm writing out a comment response now, but I'll do it here in chat if you'd prefer

@smci What do you mean, you don't have the rep to flag it? You've got 179 here, flagging requires 15

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Generate the shortest regex to match these but not those Given two lists of strings where each string is of length 50 and each list is also of length 50 generate the shortest regex you can that fully matches all the strings in the first list and does not match any of the strings in the second lis...

caird coinheringaahing

21:39

Something to remember for Winter Bash: Mods can set the Community user's hat on their site :P

hyper-neutrino

:o

Redwolf Programs

22:27

Not sure why the pings from GRT don't play until the tab is focused

smci

@cairdcoinheringaahing I can't rollback or flag the revert, like I said. Anyway your later edit is good.

caird coinheringaahing

@smci I'm not sure what you mean by "the revert"? I didn't roll back/revert your edit, I rejected your suggested edit if that's what you mean

hyper-neutrino

Can you even flag revisions? (Also, there was no revert, like caird said) If you want to bring attention to a review task or a revision, probably just flag the post for mod attention and explain it, or you can just ping a mod here if you don't mind it going public (by which I mean you can ping me)

Redwolf Programs

Aha, apparently the issue is from trying to load the audio file from an inactive tab. Downloading it on page load should probably fix the issue.

Redwolf Programs

22:47

Update to GRT 1.1.1

Oops

Don't click that yet

Okay you can now

Had the refresh time set way too low for testing purposes

Codidact Posts

22:59

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Evens or Odds - you know this one

posted on June 27, 2021 by AndrewTheCodegolfer

Get ready for a comparatively dry question - this is intended to be one of the "the"s of the code-golfing dictionary. Create a program which inputs a base 10 non-negative whole number (w...

caird coinheringaahing

Wait, when did Codidact get leaderboards?

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing it's not actually sorted by bytes though

It's sorted by votes

caird coinheringaahing

Unclick "Group by language"

That gives a ranking across all answers. If there are multiple answers in the same language, "group by language" will (probably) rank each language together by score

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing how tf do I click a button that isn't there

caird coinheringaahing

It's a tickbox

lyxal

23:08

Which tickbox caird?

I ain't seeing no tickbox

caird coinheringaahing

Ugh, now I have to do screenshots :/

Redwolf Programs

Wait...the bird thing didn't win the poll, did it?

Oh, I guess it did

That's kinda disappointing

We had a theme

caird coinheringaahing

3 tickboxes :P

lyxal

Must be a desktop thing

Redwolf Programs

Surprised it got seven votes...there were only four stars on the "vote here" link

hyper-neutrino

23:13

leaderboard by bytes is in development

Redwolf Programs

Should've been a pixel art codidactyl at least :(

lyxal

hyper-neutrino

or never mind, maybe not. either way, this was posted earlier

caird coinheringaahing

And yet, that wasn't posted to Code Golf's specific meta? Weird

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms what minimum byte count were you expecting for your mountain range challenge?

Redwolf Programs

23:24

Four

lyxal

As in, how many bytes did you expect would be the average for golfing languages?

Redwolf Programs

Average? 6-8

lyxal

Epic

Bubbler

Did I just outgolf xnor...?

caird coinheringaahing

No, it looks like you outgolfed someone called "xnor-gate". I wonder if they're related :P

lyxal

23:33

UnrelatedLogicGate

ngn

i just came across a function called gen_sha256_with_variable_scope_protector_to_not_pollute_global_namespace(), what i would normally call g() :)

lyxal

Let me guess... Php?

ngn

python (close enough)

lyxal

Oh

Oh wow

In a library or in actual production?

ngn

in a blog post

caird coinheringaahing

23:44

Wow, it took a week for one of my suggested edits to be reviewed on CS.SE

lyxal

@ngn I wouldn't expect anything less from implementing bitcoin in python

Lyxal explains how to rickroll part 2

Lyxal explains the rickroll economy

Transcript for