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Wzl
Wzl
14:00
@cairdcoinheringaahing have you tried it? I'll tell you it's idiomatic and irreducible in one language
I couldn't find this room and then I realized it was in the events
@Iamaperson just sort all rooms by active, TNB will show up at the top soon enough :P
it's always near the top
yeah lol
I always thought it was funny that my parent user is math.SE and I just randomly found the Nineteenth Byte randomly a long time ago
Wzl
Wzl
14:17
@Wzl Should I spoil it?
(or I could spoil what it does and you could guess the language)
@Wzl Sure, why not?
Wzl
Wzl
because I want someone to guess it :/
is ti whlplash code
Wzl
Wzl
@Razetime no
No, whlplash doesn't have funky Unicode
Wzl
Wzl
14:21
nice try
Wzl
Wzl
you have to hover (if you want it to be spoiled for some reason)
Huh, nice
@Wzl always
oh that's clever
Wzl
Wzl
14:24
but +50 bounty to the first one who guesses the language and has answered one of my challenges (on main)
@Wzl Jelly
definitely not
Wzl
Wzl
oh and you can't guess twice in a row for rate limiting reasons
is it on TIO?
or does that give away too much
Wzl
Wzl
@StackMeter no
@hyper-neutrino yes
14:26
05AB1E
@Wzl 05AB1E
@Wzl I know it
@Wzl it's 05AB1E
@Wzl the dots
please stop pinging
it's not
I want my bounty
05AB1E was guessed by caird like 45 minutes ago
try it
it isn't
Wzl
Wzl
14:30
fortunately I'd just turned off sound notifications
gg
I quit
@hyper-neutrino That's unlikely (that it gives away too much), since TIO has so many languages
I feel like it's a conditional
or smthn
14:36
even if i figure out what ⎕ does and why it's at both the start and the end idk how that would help me figure it out
the dots seem like either compression or a loop
ngn
ngn
@Wzl misinterpreted character encoding?
Wzl
Wzl
*waits patiently*
thought it was arn, but it's not on tio, so no
ngn
ngn
14:52
there's an 0x90 between "†" and "("
Wzl
Wzl
yes
okay maybe it wasn't accurate then, so almost impossible
@RedwolfPrograms Please tell me this is fixed in the latest version of GRT?
ngn
ngn
@Wzl your byte order is wrong
it's arithmetic mean in apl
is this in a different codepage than what you need to input to TIO for it to work lol
ngn
ngn
encoded in unicode, but pairs of bytes are swapped
Wzl
Wzl
15:03
@ngn oh? I don't understand these things
bruh
how tf am I supposed to figure that out
what's with people and using ¯ in ascii-art...
2
Q: I give you ascii-art, you make it pseudo-3d

ZeroCodeExceptionDo you know the optical effect of a tridimensional hand painted whit horizontal lines? Examples This challenge consists of making something like that effect with ascii, and transforming one 2d input into a "3d" output like this: Input: 001111100 Output: __/¯¯¯\__ Input: 0110 1111 Output: _/\_ ...

this is a cool challenge though
ngn
ngn
@hyper-neutrino i took the xxd dump, removed the spaces and offset labels, pasted it in my k interpreter with 0x in front (to interpret it as bytes), and tried to print it assuming big-endian order: ngn.bitbucket.io/k/…
that's actually quite cool
15:07
@ngn lol, wow. well, nicely done :p
maybe i should've tried harder to get this to be workable in APL
Wzl
Wzl
(ngn's answer is correct btw)
i had a strong feeling it had something to do with APL because of the surrounding ⎕ and the usage of brackets
ngn
ngn
@hyper-neutrino ..and wzl's history of golfing :)
i do not know enough about most people's language set or code/golf style :p
Wzl
Wzl
this is just my public protest against APL's character set (and other programming languages too)
ngn
ngn
15:12
@ngn oops. i meant "encoded in utf8" there
@Wzl :'(
15:35
@NewMainPosts fixed the spec since I think it's obvious but it just wasn't explicitly written
probably should've just done that instead of closing it in the first place
@cairdcoinheringaahing In 1.0.1 it should be
@cairdcoinheringaahing different length than your solution now, 19 to 20 ;)
@hyper-neutrino Oh I don't think so :P
OP has allowed - instead of the macron BTW
Surprisingly only a single byte save
15:48
the codepage index trick saved a lot of bytes over whatever clownery i was doing beforehand
i can use this on the stackoverflow-logo challenge too actually
split-on-0 and then later join-on-_ doesn't seem to save bytes, unfortunately
Wzl
Wzl
I don't want to get my rep from obvious solutions
what caused all the LQ review tasks? i unlocked the question but does that cause community to rescan all the answers too?
Maybe someone's flagging them?
no, that's not what happened this time
that's what i thought too
15:57
Guess the system doesn't look at locked questions for VLQ? Maybe ask on MM?
@hyper-neutrino Different lengths again :( But not really
oh that's smart. thanks lmao
Wzl
Wzl
CMQ: Have you ever searched on CGCC to get a tool for practical reasons?
I've written answers on CGCC that I've used for practical reasons
Wzl
Wzl
example: I have a prime factors bookmarklet I coypu-pasta'd from a challenge and used for solving math problems
@Wzl idk if this counts as practical, but to learn APL, I looked at some APL answers and tips for golfing in it. While I originally intended to do more with it, I haven't really written much APL outside of CGCC, though
Wzl
Wzl
16:07
I mean it is a bit recursive, but it counts
Huh, did y'all know that you can filter the close votes reviews you get, based on reason and tag?
I do remember using some CGCC answer to demonstrate something to my friends, but I can't find it :(
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes. smirks condescendingly
@cairdcoinheringaahing I think I did at one point but it'd be pointless here
huh, TIL. did not know that because uh
there's nothing to filter ._.
Yeah, it seems like it'd only be useful on SO/Math :P
16:09
Would you like me to post some spam for us to filter?
I'd rather you post some challenges for us to ninja :P
Haven't done that in a while have I
@RedwolfPrograms Do so at your own risk
@RedwolfPrograms Me neither :/
i think there's also a way for me to filter flags or something like that; not sure cuz we haven't had more than like 4 flags in so long and almost all of our flags are mod flags anyway
16:11
Well, we haven't had any spam for a while
good, let's keep it that way :p
We need more IGS :p
2
@cairdcoinheringaahing Good times
oh i didn't even see that one
16:12
@RedwolfPrograms Nothing since May 4th :(
Oh no! Is Indonesia's economy okay?
@hyper-neutrino Hey, the more spam we get, the quicker I reach Marshal :P
just find invalid answers to flag smh
Three cheers for spam!
16:13
@cairdcoinheringaahing I see a conflict of interest here
@RedwolfPrograms I prefer shrimp
@hyper-neutrino That's more effort :p
apparently the excel spam got nuked in <20s lmao (according to SD stats)
35 seconds between posting and Community deleting it
huh. maybe that's 20s since the smokedetector review task was created
NP/SP look like they're working
16:17
nice!
I'll draft the meta proposal later
One thing I realised about the bots: unlike the feeds, they'll have icons in the sidebar, which may be annoying if they leave/join often
That is true yeah
is the RSS feed slow or is the Feeds bot slow at posting from the RSS feed?
Second one
16:18
oh :( so you can't like make your own feed and have Feeds read from that
sad
I tried that :/
could you leave the bot in the room at all times?
I think so
I just have to send some sort of heartbeat every few minutes I think
That's another advantage of combined NMP/NMetaP I suppose
I think the chat API sends heartbeats, you just have to respond
I don't connect to the chat socket at all currently, but I guess I could do that
16:34
Twitter scraping challenge. How many people follow X. Let's try MrHarryCole
CMC :)
Do you have a link to MrHarryCole, for those of us who don't use twitter?
You can just use the web
within 30 seconds of scrolling through that page I have been reminded of why I avoid Twitter
People overcomplicate web development so much with all of these frameworks and stacks and stuff
reject modernity embrace tradition
16:42
> In the Jamstack, you build applications upfront as much as possible at deploy time (called pre-rendering), rather than at runtime (called server-side rendering).
make everything 1 long page of pure html
"pre-rendering" aka "writing code yourself instead of having node do it"
Just...write HTML...and add CSS...and add JS...and use Node or PHP to insert dyamic content (or fetch it asynchronously)
It's not that hard
> If you were to make a mistake on your site, let’s say you broke prod, you deployed the wrong brand colors, or you mixed up some copy, you can instantly rollback to a previous deploy without having to wait for a new build, because that old version of your site exists in space.
Yeah, that's what git is for
Pretty sure that's what Ctrl-Z is for
why even use git or ctrl-z? just don't make mistakes, lol
This blog post has to be some sort of inside joke I'm not getting
This just sounds like normal web development
But all of the normal words are changed into nonsense
Is this post-ironic humor? Or has web development just come full circle and nobody knows yet?
> When you deploy a site with ISR enabled, you deploy a (mostly) static site. You have your pre-defined static pages that were built, and you have routes on your application that aren’t built until your users hit those pages.
16:46
> It’s the same concept as reverting a commit in Git, and it works just as smoothly.
then why not just... do that
@RedwolfPrograms You mean what 12 year old me did with PHP?
this whole thing just sounds like normal web dev with extra steps; everything introduced that's "cool" or "new" only applies if you make a mistake or deploy a faulty build but like, we already have ctrl-Z git for that
CMC: Given a Fibonacci number as input, output the the smallest Fibonacci number greater than the input
It's like if someone wrote a small library to add some math functions to JS and rebranded it as a whole new language and renamed all of the existing features
16:50
@cairdcoinheringaahing increment under inverse_fibonacci in my hypothetical golf lang
Wzl
Wzl
@cairdcoinheringaahing so multiply by the golden ratio? I submit this in mathematica
@Wzl That won't work for n = 1. Multiply by phi, then floor gives 1
Wzl
Wzl
@cairdcoinheringaahing is that not correct?
Is 1 greater than 1?
Wzl
Wzl
:/
we have both been outgolfed by unrelatedstring @cairdcoinheringaahing :c
Well, it was either going to be Unrelated or Jonathan :P
ngn
ngn
@cairdcoinheringaahing there are two golden ratios
@cairdcoinheringaahing why not both
16:57
@UnrelatedString There's still time :P
I feel like 14 bytes should be possible even if replacing my oḤ isn't the way there
ngn
ngn
@cairdcoinheringaahing _0.5+1.618*
(_ is floor)
is round not implemented? just wondering
+.5_ should be round in theory right? (non-statistical round, .5 up)
ngn
ngn
@hyper-neutrino it's not really a golfing language
right; was just wondering
is K RTL tacit as well? i sort of get APL's structure; is this anything like it?
anyway, porting to jelly this could be ×Øp+.Ḟ (i don't think round is actually implemented in jelly?)
17:01
ær is close
there's round to y sig figs and round to the nearest multiple of 10^-y but those are two-byte dyads so +.Ḟ is the same length anyway
i'm rather surprised there isn't just a one-byte for round
either python round or just + 0.5 _
ngn
ngn
@hyper-neutrino rtl - yes. tacit - sort of, but without apl/j's odd-even forks.
uh, no clue what an odd-even fork is lol. is it on here and i just missed it?
ngn
ngn
@hyper-neutrino i don't think you'll find much criticism of apl in the apl wiki.. :)
oh are odd-even forks bad? :P
ngn
ngn
17:05
@hyper-neutrino by odd-even i mean that verbs at odd positions in the train are applied one way (the same as the whole train) and those at even positions another way (always dyadically)
Wzl
Wzl
so how do K trains work?
ngn
ngn
@hyper-neutrino it's bad bad because in a long train you have to keep track of the parity
easy to get lost
that just sounds confusing
ngn
ngn
in k, a sequence of terms ending with a verb acts as if you've applied the last verb and everything else on top of it, e.g. 1+2*%3- is {1+2*%3-x}. or 1+2*%- is {1+2*%x-y}.
CMQ: Should dictionary[n] be allowed, if n is a number instead of a string? if so, should dictionary[2] == dictionary["2"]?
17:08
@RedwolfPrograms depends on how the language works otherwise
ngn
ngn
@RedwolfPrograms define "should"
but i would say no to the second point
Wzl
Wzl
@RedwolfPrograms if the language is dynamically typed, all types of objects should be valid keys. However, if you're compiling to JS, yes and yes
even if you are compiling to js i would say no to the second point
It's statically typed
Wzl
Wzl
17:08
ok then no and no
No numbers are dictionary keys?
Wzl
Wzl
yeah
That seems like something that'd be useful
you should be able to have dictionaries with integer keys, but those dictionaries shouldn't be able to take string keys
I won't have sparse arrays so dictionaries with numbers keys are going to be necessary
Wzl
Wzl
17:10
@RedwolfPrograms do you have implicit conversion to string everywhere? If not, it's not worth the inconsistency
@UnrelatedString I don't see a problem with allowing both honestly
Wzl
Wzl
dictionaries in statically typed languages are always single type -> single type
if you have numbers or strings everywhere I wouldn't call that statically typed
what's more likely, you have a legitimate use for mixed type keys or you're making a mistake trying to use them by accident
if you actually want mixed type keys for some specific thing, it's sum type time
Wzl
Wzl
^
CMC (inspired by this Puzzling post): given a black-box function that returns one of two values (you can choose what they are but it shouldn't matter) with a constant unknown probability p where 0 < p < 1, return one of two values (you can choose what they are) with a 50% chance to be either
17:13
Besides, arrays are basically just dictionaries with integer keys
@Wzl Oh true, I forgot about some stuff like that since I decided to make it statically typed later on
you can read the puzzling post but the answers give away a fairly simple but very elegant algorithm; the puzzle is half the fun in the CMC anyway :)
@hyper-neutrino i think we may have had this challenge on main
wait no that was different
Wzl
Wzl
@hyper-neutrino _=>floor(rand(2))?
Saw this post on Reddit just now (warning: language)
17:15
oh i should have mentioned uh
no using other random functions or random generation :P
the challenge on main is still applicable though
Wzl
Wzl
@hyper-neutrino oh that's different :P
@user red-flags
*writes shittily formatted question with no research or effort just asking "yo how do I do this", and it gets closed* bro stack overflow is literally useless
ngn
ngn
@hyper-neutrino use the black-box function twice, negate one of the results, and average the two?
17:17
@hyper-neutrino Scala: _.*(2).toInt
@user Honestly, that post is the difference between SO and Reddit/other social media. That kinda language/behaviour is hard-line not acceptable here, but perfectly fine elsewhere
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm kinda more pissed at whoever posted it on Reddit because according to them the commenter "murdered" the other person by words
'how dare you not tell me how to do my homework'
so entitled lol, get it all the time on programming discords too
@hyper-neutrino *goes on a vitriolic tirade against a user* *gets banned* bro, Stack Overflow is so elitist
@cairdcoinheringaahing I wouldn't say it's acceptable in most subs on Reddit either, it's just toxic
I do agree that the first person could maybe have been nicer than "Nobody can give you a tutorial in here," but anyone who's got any experience with the site should know better
17:19
> Seriously, why the fuck do these people feel the need to post their unwanted stupid ass opinions? If you don’t want to help the shut up and move on there’s no need to be an ass.
That's a top comment on that Reddit post
speaking of reddit and homework, r/prolog is a gold mine for completely clueless homework questions
@cairdcoinheringaahing lmao
granted one of the most upvoted is 'This is more temper tantrum than word murder'
*doesn't read available help resources* *suffers consequences of own actions* bro this is other people's fault
@UnrelatedString Huh, I expected a subreddit about prolog to be full of smart people
If everyone "shut up and moved on" whenever someone posts a shitty, VLQ question, SO would be just as much a shitshow as Reddit/Quora/Yahoo
4
There's also:
> As awful as the stack overflow community is, it does stop it from becoming another quora.
HMMMMMMMM
17:21
r/SelfawareWolves? :P
> posts question
receives feedback
[*surprised pikachu face*](https://tio.run/##y0rNyan8///obptjc/Mf7lgSqvmocdfD3d2PGubE6B@eoRv//1HD3Ic7px1awvVw9xZbIMfwcHvk//8GhAAXhDIEAhRxQ7gIF7oAgmuIYQZcCQoHiwpDNPO40PWhK0A1AwFw@AUmi9UWiKAhgiJoCzkqUNVgC3VsAYtFBXYAAA)
quora's so garbage and the moderation is stupid
Is it the constant wave of shitty low quality questions that's the problem? No, it's the community that's awful
(Using the Skinner meme format)
community moderation is a really good model, i do wish SE gave us better tools though :p
@hyper-neutrino "But new users keep complaining on Twitter, so we're prioritising them over you guys"
17:24
Without a doubt SE has the most effective moderation of any website. As bad as most of the new questions are, it's still 20x more effective than most sites would be given that amount of traffic.
the world would be a better place if everything that wasn't Twitter ignored Twitter :P
The world would be a better place if twitter ignorec twitter :p
@user yeah, it's a mix of actual prolog people and university students who slept through all of their classes and went to reddit before actually trying to figure anything out for themselves
lol
ngn
ngn
17:27
that would be almost all students :) (s/reddit/the internet/)
@RedwolfPrograms I don't understand the words you said, but I support that because ignorec sounds like a very cool animal
Let's all get together and spam reddit with thousands of low quality questions and see how nice their moderation is :p
@ngn I feel attacked
@RedwolfPrograms So just another Tuesday on Reddit?
The best part will be when we go to SO and make posts complaining about how mean the Redditors are
4
17:29
@RedwolfPrograms This really is a problem for Reddit, though - I've seen a ton of subreddits such as r/UnpopularOpinion where people moan about how the moderators are useless and all the posts are VLQ
Who would've thought that putting millions of users at the whim of some random dude on the internet would be a bad idea?
TBF Reddit does tend to complain about more or less everything. Including Reddit
In fact, the only time they stop complain is to circlejerk whenever "We did it Reddit" aka they didn't do it
Welcome to TNB @MortenKromberg!
lol
that was ExcEllEnt @RedwolfPrograms
ngn
ngn
did anybody solve the latest cmc? i think i have a solution
how does one invite somebody to a room
@ngn i've got one mostly done
17:40
@StackMeter Click their username, then "invite this user"
Alternatively, go to their profile and click "Invite this user to"
{≠/r←⍺⍺¨⍳2:⊃r⋄∇⍬}
@user (this is wrong, never mind it)
Ugh I have to update custom fonts again >:|
ngn
ngn
17:42
@rak1507 i had essentially the same: while(1){int d=f()-f();if(d)return d>0;}
yeah, I actually saw this problem on twitter (I think) a few days ago
so it kinda gives it away
Wzl
Wzl
@cairdcoinheringaahing time to make a room called "get rickrolled" and invite people to it
or 'you just lost the game'
17:44
@hyper-neutrino Jelly, 6 bytes
Just a reminder that inviting people pings them, and so is disruptive. Only do it if you actually need to talk to them in a specific room
@RedwolfPrograms Why?
17:59
Any feedback? It's a longer wiki than I normally write, so it'd be good to have a second pair of eyes

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