Try it online!

It basically just squares n while it's less than m, then decrements it to m

@ngn every misfeature of your language is a feature request for your IDE :shrug:

I've heard good things about caret but it's missing a lot of features I need :/

Have you tried parsnips?

Is that a text editor or are we talking about root vegetables

You might like them, although I much prefer carrots

Guess it's the latter

@RedwolfPrograms idk if it's a text editor, I was talking about the vegetable :P

they're a good replacement for bacon :D

I tend to think about food when I'm hungry

@Wezl Nothing can replace the glorious taste of bacon

tofu tofu tofu tofu tofu don't flag me tofu

(I haven't actually had parsnips, though, so I don't know)

@Wezl Tofu can't replace bacon. It just doesn't have the right texture

Some things just can't be substituted, and I feel bacon's one of them

yeah it's right down with migraines

@RedwolfPrograms when "works without an internet connection" is a "feature", you might not have written a very good product

Quite a lot of things on Chrome OS require internet, because quite a lot of things on Chrome OS require a browser :p

oh it's designed specifically for ChromeOS I see

ninja'd lol

@Wezl lol

@RedwolfPrograms I really feel like you should just use a normal laptop given all of these problems you have

Chrome OS >> Other OSes for daily stuff

How about carrying both laptops? Or use remote desktop or whatever to use a proper PC for that stuff?

Chrome os is... survivable

Survivable != Satisfying

Chrome OS is great

Survivable != anywhere near good

I guess you might get used to it after a while, but it sounds really inconvenient if you don't have an internet connection

It's fast (because it's mainly good at one thing), and it's secure (because it mainly only needs to do one thing)

How am I supposed to check my emails while driving?

And it's the same as any other laptop when you don't have internet

one thing: run proprietary browsers

@Wezl Linux VM

@Wezl yeah that's my main problem

that's not what I want to do, so it's not for me

@RedwolfPrograms "secure" is mutually exclusive with "requires internet"

@RedwolfPrograms why not just linux then!?

@ngn Not really

It's not just the whole Google thing - a lot of apps don't seem to work on Chromebooks

It can't run executables directly

@ngn Not necessarily, especially since people mostly devote their time to writing malware for Windows :P

@user It's not good for some things, but it's really good for a few specific or more general use cases and that's what I need it for

Fair enough

@user all hardware since ~2008 is backdoored. os doesn't matter.

I may be biased against Chromebooks because of how bad the ones at school were/are

@ngn :(

@Wezl Faster, less worries about hardware not working, more secure

Cheaper too

@RedwolfPrograms ???

To get a Windows/Mac/Linux laptop that's as fast as a Chromebook you'd have to pay multiple times more

When you mainly only need to run one app you can afford to optimize it a ton

It's definitely not for everyone, yeah

I won't argue with that

@user lol

@StackMeter That's not particularly star-worthy

But I don't particularly mind Google, and I mostly just do programming (and online things), so it does everything I need other than Minecraft

Bit of an aside: What's a good Linux distro for a longtime Windows user?

Ubuntu

I installed Ubuntu Budgie on an old laptop but it's running a bit slowly

KDE Neon

try freebsd :)

Gentoo

@user take my star anyway

@user Or, TBH, go cold-turkey with Arch and a minimalist WM. You'll learn a lot

@StackMeter I can't

What's so bad about freebsd and Gentoo?

@pxeger Uh, I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet

Do you like working computers?

also, it makes the most recent two starred posts look way too out-of-context funny

It's really not as hard as it's made out to be

I already messed stuff up just installing Lubuntu

@user i meant "try freebsd" in a good sense. it's great!

@RedwolfPrograms Kinda, as long as it isn't too complicated

anyone know how to get absolute value of 1+I to be sqrt(2) in sympy? sympy.Abs(1+1*I) is giving me the decimal approximation

Then don't install those :p

@ngn Oh ok, the :) made me think it was sarcasm. I'll be sure to try that out too

I can hardly get Arch working reasonably well

@user FreeBSD is a pain for desktop use because it's similar enough to Linux that you think things will work, but different enough that nothing actually does

lol

I've only tried relatively bad linux distros :/

@RedwolfPrograms I don't want to be that guy, but can I help you with that?

@hyper-neutrino if you need sqrt(2), 2**0.5 is several bytes shorter

No, I like my current setup with ubuntu :p

Not as good as Chrome though

@StackMeter i meant specifically if there's a function to get absolute value of complex numbers precisely

need it for a golfing language

I like Arch because it's all latest versions so there are very few distro-specific patches for backwards compatibility and everything works exactly as it's documented

yes

@hyper-neutrino Is there a separate "modulus" function rather than "absolute value"? Or a conversion to polar coordinates? If not, just use Pythagoras

If it's got rolling releases, how does everything work properly? I thought there were lots of bugs

assuming it's a + bi, sqrt(a^2+b^2)

Chrome OS isn't for everyone, but it's seriously underrated (and it wasn't really usable until a year or two ago, which doesn't help that)

so (a**2 + b**2)**0.5

actually i think i can assume everything is either a string or a number. i believe those are the only two types my functions will need to handle

you can always store complex numbers as a 2-tuple

oh there's a .as_real_imag() function lol. nice

On newer Chromebooks you can download Android apps which seriously helps compatibility

@user there are more bugs in an absolute sense, because it's newer software, but everything is a lot more guaranteed to interact correctly because there's no monkey-patching

For example, I had way too many issues with sound just breaking with every kernel update until a reboot on Ubuntu, and there was no solution

Oh ok

I had a ton of sound issues on 18.04

But 20.04 seems to be much better about that

Don't know if it's just luck or if there's been improvements there

Imagine using the sound on your computer

This post made by mute all tabs and read the subtitles gang

^ + ^^

20.04 being a bit late is exactly what made me switch to Arch. I needed to reinstall right around April 2020, and 2004 wasn't quite out yet, so I thought I'd distro-hop, only to find that Arch was more or less perfect

@Wezl so ^^^

arch is a slippery slope to gentoo

@StackMeter no, + should not be used for concatenation >:/

The only real issue I've every had with Arch was trying to set up full disk encryption

well it's concat or addition

what, is it &"

@ngn It's a slope, but it's definitely not slippery. It's more like sandpaper

Imagine having anything worth encrypting lol

@StackMeter concatenation isn't commutative, so use of + is Officially Illegal™

@StackMeter but I think it shouldn't. It ruins commutativity

I keep all my passwords in a plaintext file because I can't protect files on Windows

@Wezl Haskell uses ++ for this reason, I think

which is a good choice (except it's infix >:)

@pxeger "i'm just gonna compile this one package from source" (2 weeks later) "i'm in the middle of compiling xfce"

when using + as addition

I don't like how ugly all of the WMs and desktop managers and stuff are by default

it is commutative

and both addition and concatenation are associative

Meh, the slickness of a UI shouldn't matter much as long as they're doing their job

I care more about the appearance than anything else

@StackMeter Concatenation isn't commutative, though

and that includes functionality

@RedwolfPrograms yeah, that's a point. I use KDE + gruvbox + Papirus icons and it's great. But it's not pretty by default

@StackMeter no, it's append/3

@RedwolfPrograms I do too, more than I should. I wouldn't admit this to people irl but I don't care if y'all judge me :P

KDE seriously breaks stuff when I try to shut off my laptop :/

Use glue. I like Gorilla Super Glue personally

@RedwolfPrograms oh, one does not simply use power management in KDE ;)

Oh, that's normal?

@user meh, they're strings so you can just tie them

CMC: Something somewhat like concat but commutative

catcon

@RedwolfPrograms I think that's KDE's biggest weakness, yeah

@RedwolfPrograms set union, or multiset addition

@RedwolfPrograms maybe interleave?

@RedwolfPrograms Scala: _+_ sort (requires Scala 2.12 or postfix operators enabled)

@Wezl that's not commutative

^

interleave centered then

sort + concat :P ez

generalized merge: loop pop whichever first character is alphabetically earlier and append it to the result

@hyper-neutrino Ninja'd :P (I did it the opposite way, but whatever)

@Wezl like a b c d e & f g h => a f b g c g d h e

sort + concat or concat + sort both work. i can't read scala so i missed what you wrote lmao

(ninja'd again!)

@Wezl What's f g h and a b c d e though?

@hyper-neutrino The real question is whether or not the + you used is commutative

Or what about a b c d & e f g h vs e f g h & a b c d

@RedwolfPrograms Characters

true :(

@user very much not so but i'm too lazy to go find and copy-paste the compose operator

The easiest solution here is (a, b) => "blahblahblah"

@hyper-neutrino ⍤

ok but that's no longer "somewhat like concat" :P

@user Ah yes. Cuncotenaashun

Define "somewhat" :P

> to a moderate extent or by a moderate amount

:p

CMC: Implement an operator @ such that, for integers a,b,c: a@b = a+b, b@a != a+b, a@(b@c) = a+b+c, (a@b)@c != a+b+c

I.e. remove associativity and commutativity from +

I don't understand?

Same

Why did I put that in code lol

@cairdcoinheringaahing should "!=" always hold or is it enough to have counterexamples of "=="?

If 1@2=1+2=3 and 2@1=2+1=3, then how is 2@1!=1@2?

so basically you just want a non-associative non-commutative binary operator

@ngn Preferably the first, but the latter is also ok

like exponentation :P

Or subtraction

@user That's for you to implement

1@2 = 3, but 2@1 != 3

oh yeah subtraction too. forgot that wasn't either lol

Wait so is @ only defined for 3 specific integers?

but + on integers is commutative, so we have a@b = a+b = b+a = b@a

Would 3@4 be 7, or 4@3 be 7?

I read that as any 3 integers a, b, c

Yes, any 3 integers

Then this is impossible (afaict)

^

@cairdcoinheringaahing What was your solution?

I didn't have one, I'm playing around with the idea

ay i got 106.8% on my math final :P

Nice!

I think that, in the context of a programming function where it's non-pure, it's possible

@hyper-neutrino How?

Unless you somehow restrict a and b to non-overlapping ranges, I don't see how @ could be done

My high school math final's aweek from now

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh, are you supposed to remember a and b and then misbehave the next time they're fed back in?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Using the power of math, of course :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing i aced the main part and got 5/6 on the bonus :P

@user Potentially. It's obviously not possible using pure functions, as @ngn pointed out, but I think it is through something like that

That makes much more sense

@RedwolfPrograms oh good luck; not that you'll need it i assume :P

@hyper-neutrino Your finals include "bonuses"?

@cairdcoinheringaahing hyperreal numbers lose more properties the further you get, so if you allow extensions to the ring of integers, it might get more interesting

apparently. but the mark gets truncated before being included in the average so it doesn't actually matter :(

@RedwolfPrograms Schools in Texas have finals?

@ngn Yeah, it's already the case for a,b,c being octonions IIRC

@user No, but this class does because it's also for college credit

(But only for one school that I won't be going to)

octonions: when you combine an octopus and an onion

@RedwolfPrograms Oh ok

I've always wondered how, in Harry Potter, Hermione get's like 127% on tests

@user Sounds like it'd taste really good actually

@hyper-neutrino Not as good as the time 109% on my maths exam

@user Add in some more things and that's calamari

"some more things" aka "batter"

Do not click

^ That does look kinda nice

@cairdcoinheringaahing You actually get like 95%, but then it's adjusted up because you answered questions you weren't supposed to know how to do yet

I'm so confused

fortunately none of my courses (AFAICT) curve grades. so what i get is actually what i get

@cairdcoinheringaahing Hi so confused, I'm Dad

lol AP human geography at my school is so hard they have to curve it or the whole class would fail except for two or three people

Literally every test I've ever taken has been: here are n questions. Each question is worth however many marks. If you get all the marks, you get 100%. Otherwise, you get less than 100%

I've had some teachers that add bonus questions

Doesn't seem that unusual

Those have always just been part of the exam for me

@cairdcoinheringaahing let's say the exam contains 10 questions, and 1 of them was on a topic that hadn't been covered so they expect you to get that wrong. So most people get between 1-9 marks, and then the teacher adjusts all the grades by 10/9≈1.11. But let's say I actually knew how to do the 10th question, and got it right, so my score becomes 100% -> 111%

Curving grades has always seemed to be a bad way of dealing with your poor teaching to me. Like, maybe instead of changing the grades, you should make your course more doable?

I've taken tests where there were "bonus questions," but they're mainly stuff like "Prove the superiority of people who walk fast" and you don't actually get a million bonus points for writing an answer.

@pxeger But why would they include a question on a topic you haven't covered yet?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Because they design the tests long in advance and then the material is covered more slowly than anticipated? Or they use a whole past-paper of which 38/39 questions are fine and they don't bother removing question 14? Or the teachers are just overworked and underpaid?

all of the above?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Or two teachers use the same test, but taught things in a slightly different order

@cairdcoinheringaahing foreshadowing for dramatic effect :)

@user My physics teacher used to ask us to write poems about the subjects if we finished the exam, and he held a separate competition for best poetry (I never won)

That sounds fun

idk why, but a lot of the teachers at my high school are somewhat eccentric

My Algebra I teacher would always add a bonus question at the end of the test on the next unit's topic, so people who already knew about it could get some extra points

everybody's eccentric :P

My maths teacher once miscounted the total possible mark, so she made spelling her name (which was greek and difficult to remember) an extra mark

lol

@Wezl But some are more circular than others :P

A few people got 900s instead of 90s in some of my classes because of typos lol

what kind of peanut butter should I open?

I was going through an (the?) FBI homicide dataset and a lot of perpetrators are aged less than 10 or 99

@Wezl Creamy. Almost always better than the crunchy kind

You'd expect them to have some sort of input validation, but apparently they don't

ok, salted?

Salted is good

That's a thing?

out of creamy :(

Lots of things come salted

@user Since this joke is either unappreciated or just not funny, I'm going to explain it and ruin it anyway: Eccentricity

I think Hunter-Fatherer's hunting mechanics need some work

*Gatherer

@user yeah, it's funny. eccentricity causes conic effect :)

That KotH has brought in something like half a dozen new users :D

I went and checked the review queues when you said that, but it looks like you've cleared them already, you selfish reviewer! /s

Checking the history there have been exactly half a dozen :p

Unintuitive thing I just thought of: If you have the ability to take out infinitely large loans, and make infinitely large bets with a nonzero probability of doubling your bet, you can reliably earn infinite money by doubling your bet each time you lose until you win

Even with a finite amount of money you can pretty reliably earn an additional 10% or even 50% by doing that, but the higher the amount you want to earn (relative to the amount you have) the more likely it is you lose all your money

@RedwolfPrograms shh.. don't tell them!

@RedwolfPrograms Remember that First Posts requires 2 reviews per post, so there's only been 4 new users

Oh it does?

I should probably know this stuff lol

wait how is 6/2=4 then or am i missing something

Some hadn't been reviewed twice yet

There's been one extra :P

oh lol

I just finished reviewing the 4th :P

But I know I got 3 or 4

LQP and Late both require a single review, everything else requires at least 2

every time i check the queues they're empty lol

That's why you be a stalker

and it never shows the red alert badge

Reopen and Close are generally in the queues until a final result is reached, SE and FP both require 2

@hyper-neutrino Use review stalker

How did (scores) => scores[0] || 0 net me +100 rep and a bronze badge

Got there eventually

oh? never heard of it

@RedwolfPrograms The post hit HNQ

ah the classic hnq effect

I'm fine with it :p

@hyper-neutrino Imma regret this, but here

Is that the fixed one?

See Redwolf's bug fix as well

thank you, now i will make sure none of you ever get to review again /s

Mods reviewing is awful for us, as their vote is binding :P

I've now discovered critical fixes for two fairly widely used userscripts that aren't mine, I should monetize this :p

my total lack of review badges probably contributed to my relatively mediocre candidate score :P

even now i mostly look at new activity like posts and edits rather than monitoring queues

Imagine not having a candidate score of 38/40 :P

Somehow, I beat WW on candidate score o.O

oh? o.o

Time to get back to work on ym chat bots

I think only Martin has a higher score than me (39), but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CMQ: What's your candidate score?

24

I'm catching up!

So Martin is only missing Copy Editor, otherwise he'd have a perfect 40 Nope, hang on

34, lmao

lol I just have 17

Martin's missing Marshal, not Copy Editor

I'm missing Marshal and Steward

The list of required badges

i'm missing deputy + marshal (which i can no longer get), reviewer + steward, copy editor, and refiner

So, while you're a mod, you can only have a max score of 38 :(

well, you can have more if you had those badges beforehand, but you can only get up to 38 if you had 0/40 before :P

@hyper-neutrino Yeah, I meant you specifically :P

I'd be at 33 if I suddenly got 9000 rep, I'm missing 4 moderation badges and 3 editing ones

oh :P

Why doesn't English have a plural you or a "one" you :(

y'all?

well technically, if you(you) wanted to refer to a mod in general you(you) could say "one", but "one" makes it unambiguously general and "you" makes it ambiguous because most people don't use "one" :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing y'only

That's the plural, what about the "one"?

> So, while one is a mod, one can only have a max score of 38 :(

Anyone want to join me for a nice spot of tea and croquet?

I'm at 6.