The Nineteenth Byte

Unrelated String

05:14

@Razetime :/

wait I forgot the one golf I was saving for the end

extra :/

I'll wait the 5 minutes because it's even clunkier now and I want something that looks okay in the edit history

hyper-neutrino

ha, i beat the husk answer by one byte :P

Unrelated String

come to think of it there's probably a better way to surround the input with \$

er

output

Wasif

Err my python answer is 169 bytes :-(

Loses to all

Lyxal

@Wasif 1nice bytes

ftfy

hyper-neutrino

well, python isn't exactly a golfing lang :p

jelly also has the superscripts in its codepage but i don't actually include them in the code for SBCS stuff

Unrelated String

05:26

doesn't have ⁰

hyper-neutrino

true

they all appear in a block so i can just subtract to get 1-9

Unrelated String

yep

hyper-neutrino

and then since ^0 doesn't appear, its index is 0, so i just do or 129 :P

Lyxal

I am so glad zoom class can't hear what I'm listening to

Wasif

But sometimes python has its moments

hyper-neutrino

05:27

@Lyxal care to enlighten us?

~~mambo # 5~~

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino if they could, they'd tell me to stop rickrolling

which would be sad

hyper-neutrino

lol

Lyxal

it's a byproduct of LFAPOU

I'm just letting it roll

Wasif

What does LFAPOU do actually, my browser hangs if I navigate there

Lyxal

it should either do nothing or rickroll you

it's a random choice

it's probably the overly obfusicated code

^ that is making your browser hang

Razetime

05:32

@hyper-neutrino that's much more well suited

nice

hyper-neutrino

it's very convenient for this :P

Razetime

If S+`+"¦$" worked it'd be even with Jelly

Wasif

Hey is the mathjax challenge possible to answer in Vyxal?

Lyxal

@Wasif yes

Razetime

@Wasif go ahead

Wasif

05:38

It would require a level of expertise, I hope lyxal or razetime would do it before me

Lyxal

i'm cutting back on vyxal answers due to the bounty

Razetime

@Wasif you can definitely do it

Lyxal

@Wasif we believe in you

Wasif

I'll try my best thank you

hyper-neutrino

oh vyxal is stack based?

Lyxal

05:50

y..yes

you didn't know?

hyper-neutrino

sick, i might be able to learn it within like 5 months then

jelly took me forever too learn

idk man i'm just scared of new golfing languages cuz brain smol

Lyxal

> Vyxal is the latest addition to the plethora of stack-based languages used for code golfing.

taken form the readme

hyper-neutrino

look this is the first time i've opened the repo ok

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino bigger than mine

Unrelated String

@hyper-neutrino trying to use unicodedata instead and it's already longer lmao

hyper-neutrino

05:52

oof

Newly Featured Questions

49

Q: Calculate a square and a square root!

You must make a polyglot that outputs the square of the input in one language and the square root of the input in another. The shortest answer in bytes wins! You must have a precision of at least 3 decimal places, and the input will always be a positive float.

Unrelated String

so yeah I remember I tried writing something in vyxal once and it just
didn't work

maybe because I didn't look up how you're actually supposed to do lambda syntax

Razetime

feel free to ask in the vyxal chatroom

Lyxal

@UnrelatedString λ...; is a monadic lambda

Razetime

it's gotten way better anyway

Lyxal

05:55

@UnrelatedString λn|...; is a lambda with arity n

@Razetime based.

Unrelated String

that's probably what I messed up

I don't remember what I was trying to do

but I assumed that lambdas just
contained stack effects
rather than having pre-defined arities

Lyxal

lambdas pop from the stack and use their own stack

they pop as many arguments as their arity requires

hyper-neutrino

that's cool

so when a lambda ends it pushes its value to the real stack and discards its sub-stack?

Lyxal

Yep

It only pushes the top of its own stack

If you wanted the full substack, you'd either wrap it first or use a defined function

Bubbler

That's different from Factor's quotations. In Factor, quotations don't have associated arity and just work on the main stack

And arities are only defined for defined functions

That's totally opposite

Razetime

06:00

@Bubbler this is what stax uses

stax blocks are variadic however

hyper-neutrino

what types of challenges does vyxal tend to outperform jelly at? as in, simpler/shorter or more complex challenges

or is it relatively consistently beating/matching it at pretty much everything

Razetime

strings i think

and any place where 05ab1e is better

hyper-neutrino

makes sense, lol

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino I'm not sure at this stage. I've never really gotten around to doing complicated programs

hyper-neutrino

i guess challenges that don't require reusage of the secondary argument

Razetime

06:01

and any place where flags can be used

those chop of a lot of bytes

Lyxal

@Razetime because vyxal is 05ab1e with functions and overloads

Razetime

so that's err sorta like what japt is good at

hyper-neutrino

do you have a list of flags anywhere on the github page

Razetime

type -h in the interpreter online?

Bubbler

But Japt is somewhat inefficient because it's hard to avoid syntactic stuff

Razetime

06:03

nah, just h

Adám

I'm thinking of a challenge where the input is an integer N in the range 1–49 and seven sentences and you have to somehow highlight the Nth word of the entire text and the Nth letter of the middle sentence. But what kind of highlighting would work?

Razetime

@hyper-neutrino lyxal.pythonanywhere.com?flags=h&code=&inputs=&head…

hyper-neutrino

thanks

so by current rules you can just not include the flag's bytes and include them with the header like # Vyxal -s, 2 bytes or smth like that?

Razetime

no minus

but yeah

hyper-neutrino

ah. that's cool

Bubbler

06:05

@Adám In every context I can think of, highlighting is basically an act of inserting a specific string before and after the thing to highlight

Razetime

you just put Vyxal jM and boom 2 or more bytes saved

hyper-neutrino

so basically you just move builtins from the code into the flags and take them off the bytecount xdd

Bubbler

The simplest is to insert * before and after the stuff, as in markdown

Adám

@Bubbler Alternatively, it would be obvious to get the sentences in lowercase and highlight by uppercasing, but that won't work if the Nth letter is in the Nth word.

Lyxal

@hyperneutrino precisely

Adám

06:06

@Bubbler Except of course that markdown doesn't actually vork.

hyper-neutrino

sounds almost like cheating but it seems reasonable based on the flags you have, since it's not like you're just coding with the flags, rather just modifying output details

Razetime

@Adám terminal escapes

Adám

@Razetime That just makes things awkward for many languages that can't have them in strings, no?

Lyxal

@Razetime 2x-1 suggested a language change that reduced the amount of M flags needed

For example, fizzbuzz now only needs one flag

Bubbler

@Adám *...* and **...** can be nested in markdown

Razetime

06:07

@Adám well yeah

Adám

@Bubbler Yes, but le*t*ter doesn't work

Razetime

but upside is it's actual highlighting

Adám

Maybe inserting brackets. [this] w[o]rd and this [wo[r]d]

Bubbler

in Sandbox, 14 secs ago, by Bubbler

xyzab

Adám

Could still be ambiguous if any word had only one letter.

Bubbler

06:09

That's the result of x*y**z**a*b

Razetime

@Adám I agree with this due to stax

Adám

@Bubbler Oh :-)

Bubbler

So it does work in at least one weird dialect of markdown :P

And by CGCC rules, it is valid

Bubbler

06:21

@Adám But the gist is that you don't need to assume actual MD or anything, you can just specifically say "surround by * to highlight a word and by ** to highlight a letter" or any other marker of your choice

Adám

True, or two brace styles: [wo{r}d]

Bubbler

I don't see any problem highlighting a single-letter word with both * and **, which would result in ***x*** which happens to be valid markdown and isn't ambiguous in that the single letter is highlighted in both modes

Braces would work too, yeah

Adám

In fact, the markers could be prefix too >wo-rd

Bubbler

That's slightly overgolfed

Adám

Or I could leave it up to the answerer to choose. I can say that you have to use something that surrounds and allows distinguishing between the two cases.

Bubbler

06:25

That works too

Adám

Would it be bad to have multiple tasks that are all related to the same theme? (This is based on a real-world problem with multiple parts.)

Bubbler

I don't see any problem, as long as they don't directly overlap

Adám

Another part would be to have seven sentences of 6 words each, and having to highlight the Nth word, except that if N is 7 14 21…49 then you highlight the (N÷7)th sentence instead of a word.

Bubbler

I guess those kind of tasks need some context though, it looks like tacked-on requirements on the surface

Adám

Right, I'd give the context.

Third part is being given N and list of 7 words and having to return the phrase "N₀ of N₁" where N₀ and N₁ are the words corresponding to the digits of N expressed in base 7.

Razetime

06:31

add a tragic backstory related to 7

Adám

Indeed.

Maybe even a fourth (actually this one comes before the first task I described) which is to take N and return [N,N₁,N₀] where N₀ of N₁ are the digits in base 7, except you omit any 0.

Bubbler

You can name them #1, #2, #3, and then #0 to throw off 1-indexing fans

Adám

I'll try to sandbox it.

Razetime

@Bubbler great idea

Adám

Btw, I currently solve these 4 tasks manually every day :-(

Bubbler

06:34

Oof

Adám

Speaking of which, I've got to go do N=24 now… See y'all later!

Wasif

I am back again
Are self answers eligible of vyxal bounty

Razetime

yes

Wasif

:-)

Adám

07:02

Hold on, then I can make trivial/bad/duplicate challenges and immediately self-answer then in Vyxal before they are closed‽

Bubbler

Time to abuse "answer to my own question" feature, which ensures that the asker can post an answer before being closed :P

5

pxeger

(don't do this)

Razetime

07:26

@Adám I can simply not award the bounty :(

Adám

Oh.

Lyxal

@Razetime same here

Razetime

staxlang.xyz/… looks like stax is 40 on the superscript thing

Anush

08:08

Has there been a challenge about moving a dot around the screen controlled by the arrow keys?

Wasif

it may be subproblem of snake game challenge

but no direct challenge like that i think

Anush

Snake is the best game of course :)

Neil

08:59

ugh, Firefox 89 looks terrible, why did they have to change it :-(

TRiG

@Neil I'm still on 87.0. What's changed in 89?

Neil

09:21

@Razetime ugh, not really, Charcoal doesn't have the necessary reflection

@TRiG well, its tabs are now buttons, and its menuitems are huge, when before they used to be system size

TRiG

@Neil Weird. I wonder what the thinking was behind that.

Neil

09:37

for the menus I checked and the UI team thought that Notepad's menus were ugly

Razetime

10:03

@Neil ah, sad

Adám

11:01

@Bubbler @Razetime and anyone else, for that matter, have a look at this challenge proposal.

New Sandboxed Posts

11:24

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Help me count the Omer During the 49 days between Passover and Pentecost, Jewish liturgy provides four numerical problems that I've here phrased as code golf problems. Input/Arguments These four, in any order, and by any means: An integer \$N\$ in the inclusive range 1 though 49. You are not al...

Lyxal

12:12

Wow it has been so long since I last topped HNQ

feels good

Razetime

@Lyxal congrats

Redwolf Programs

12:39

Glad to see there was a ton of discussion about my challenge, which of course happened as soon as I fell asleep :p

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Yes thank you, I will be using this challenge when I edit now

I was also considering one that does the same for fractions :P Might sandbox it later

Redwolf Programs

I'm very surprised it hadn't been done already tbh

You know what I realized? I can put all of the strings like Fizz and four in two byte constants instead of one byte constants in the string notation (which is two bytes in the code), meaning that it makes a bunch of empty space in the string notation. That was the final barrier to me getting rid of the prefix notation for the strings, and not just switching it over to variable width

Lyxal

Alright everyone bets are open on the amount of work Redwolf will do on ash today. Will it be much, will it be none at all? No one knows!

3

Redwolf Programs

New Posts is so fast I opened a new answer to my question and got a notification on that page for the answer I already had open.

Lyxal

Yes

@RedwolfPrograms I haven't seen what the new answer is, but I'm guessing it's a zsh answer by pxeger?

Aww it wasn't

It was Neil with charcoal and Retina

Sad.

Well that'll teach me to make assumptions about people's answering patterns based

Or that I shouldn't try to do things that require many brain cells when the general average condition of said brain cells is tired

Honestly I don't know which one it is

And I'm too tired to care

See y'all tomorrow when you've had your 20 billion conversations.

pxeger

13:02

Anyone else feel a bit uncomfortable about SO tracking your copy-and-pasting?

user

@Neil ikr? It supposed to look more modern

@pxeger I always feel uncomfortable, but yeah

@user At least when you close all tabs in Firefox, the popup looks somewhat nicer

Why do people post easy-to-fgitw challenges when I'm sleeping and not when I'm awake and bored?

pxeger

@user I didn't think it could be that bad, but wow

user

It's actually not that bad for me, though, I prefer larger stuff anyway because it's easier to see

pxeger

Where's my Compact UI option? And why do the icons look so wonky? And why is the little blue dot under pinned tabs so small?

Adám

@pxeger Yes.

user

13:17

@pxeger Little blue dot? Is that for a container?

pxeger

Eww, and the blue borders on selected elements have way way too little padding

ophact

I feel like people are getting way too many votes for answers like (f,g,x,y)=>g(f(x),f(y)) (6 votes)

pxeger

@user No, when you pin a tab and its title changes since you last opened it, a blue dot appears under the favicon

At least I think that's what makes it show up

user

Oh ok

Never actually pinned a tab in Firefox before

@ophact ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can't do much about it

pxeger

And why can't I customise which buttons appear on the right of the address bar? (the ones inside the address bar, not outside)

user

13:20

@pxeger It says "Compact (not supported)." Hopefully that'll change

pxeger

I'm often tempted by changes like this to go and create bug report after bug report, but I guess I'll get used to it

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Yeah, I literally don't see anything good from that

user

It's just beta, right? It'll hopefully get better

Redwolf Programs

@ophact It's been heavily discussed, FGITW is the main problem

caird coinheringaahing

Not only is it kinda invasive, it also shows what they bother spending time on. The data isn't even revealing. Who would've thought that anonymous users are the majority of the people who copy-paste??

Redwolf Programs

13:25

It's like when I did the thing analyzing patterns with CGCC's tags. Just as uninteresting, but instead of being a bored 14 year old they're a massive company with actual issues to solve.

user

Everyone has a child inside of them /s Yeah, looking over the post again, none of the data seems to be super valuable

pxeger

Just worked out you can mostly disable the new Firefox UI in about:config by setting browser.proton.enabled to false

caird coinheringaahing

I am 1 rep (32892 vs 32891) away from being on the first page of users sorted by all time rep, and I just repcapped ಠ_ಠ

Wezl

13:49

make a new tip for golfing in scala and get a +50 bounty within 7 hours :)

user

I've run out of tips that are specific to Scala 3 :(

Wezl

why did I never realize that was just for scala 3??

user

:(

You should've put the bounty on the Tips for Golfing in Scala question

Hello @rak1507, got any tips?

rak1507

lol

CMC: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function

you can do x>0 if you want

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 VTC as dupe :P

pxeger

13:53

:(

rak1507

oh lol

user

@rak1507 Mathematica, 10 bytes: ProductLog :P

rak1507

frustrating you have to return both values lol

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Whispers v3, 7 bytes: >> W(L)

rak1507

{(⍵-⍨⊢×*){⍵-(⍺⍺ ⍵)÷2÷⍨d÷⍨-/⍺⍺¨⍵+1 ¯1×d←1E¯5}⍣≡1J1} did this earlier in maths when we were doing it

caird coinheringaahing

13:57

(Doesn't work on TIO)

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing why does it have >>?

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 Lines in Whispers must be prefixed with >, >>, >>> or >>>>

rak1507

why tho

caird coinheringaahing

Otherwise they just get ignored

user

@rak1507 ~~Because Whispers is annoying except when you're doing the Lambert-W function~~

rak1507

13:59

haha

wow W(1) = *∘-⍣≡1

Razetime

14:36

@rak1507 I had this in my APL bounty claims list earlier

nice

rak1507

lol

Razetime

do post it

Adám

@rak1507 You can remove the space in ⍺⍺ ⍵

Redwolf Programs

14:51

I can't get ownerdisplayname to work with SEDE

In fact it appears to only work for deleted users?

Adám

@rak1507 (⍵-⍨⊢×*) → ⍵-⍨×∘*⍨

hyper-neutrino

I think OwnerDisplayName is just entirely broken and useless IIRC

Redwolf Programs

Fixed it with an inner join it seems. (what's an inner join?)

I'm scraping every CGCC post in order to make a corpus of language and user names and keywords

hyper-neutrino

inner join is used to select values from two tables where they have a matching column

in this case, probably something like Posts.OwnerId = Users.Id or whatever the tables/columns are named

it's basically intersection, as opposed to full outer join which is union

Redwolf Programs

Time to download and try to process around 250MB of data :p

I'm going to try it with a random selection of 25% of the posts on the site first

Wasif

15:56

Hello!
is the RO tool testing room free now

caird coinheringaahing

You don't have to ask, just go and play around with the tools :P

Wasif

Lyxal dictated the room this morning

I lost the link of the room, because i just wiped my browser history of the week

caird coinheringaahing

Here's the link (it's currently under timeout and Lyxal's the only user. You can just create your own room to test any tools you want

Go to here, then scroll down and click "create a new room"

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