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12:00 AM
I just remembered about the Poslin esoteric language made on bay12forums. It's a shame it died. bitbucket.org/thomas_bartscher/poslin-specification
It was really intresting, too
It's a meta language capable of describing a large subset of forth like languages (postfix languages)
@MartinEnder Fixed
12:19 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Nathan MerrillBasketball Recruitment king-of-the-hill You're recruiting your local neighborhood for your Jr Basketball team. However, the opposing team also is recruiting! You both stand at the end of the street of 100 houses. Each house has a kid with a unique, random height from 1 to 100. Taller is ...

12:38 AM
A friendly reminder: chat flags are visible to the entire SE network. Please don't use chat flags for issues that couldn't possibly be handled by a non-PPCG mod.
@Dennis The trolling nomination is back
Time for a suspension IMO
incidentally why on earth would they put their phone number in their profile
@Dennis Sorry, won't happen again
probably should be edited out
12:42 AM
You can't force people not to disclose PII.
@DJMcMayhem Can't remove it myself. Elections are above our pay grade.
That's what I thought, but Pavel told me you handled it the first time
I was wrong
@Dennis Although, I suppose a short suspension would stop him from running again
wait why were the comments restored
I think this was actually the original nomination
or a bug
It was. It's in the history
12:44 AM
What I now assume happened is Neil faked a notification from PPCG mods.
I assume they undeleted the nomination. I'm not sure how this works.
I'm shocked that he was able to undo something a CM did
@DJMcMayhem I think he deleted it himself
So that he could continue his joke, and claim he was being censored by the mods.
@Pavel Moderator message is a bit of a misnomer. CMs can also send them.
@Pavel Or grace contacted him and that was signed with The PPCG moderation team
12:46 AM
That's the automatic signature
since Grace has a diamond here that's what a mod mail sent from here would look like
(note how it says "Programming Puzzles & Code Golf Stack Exchange," not "PPCG"
Yeah, no golfer would have typed this manually.
also he put a patreon on the nomination
which is basically just spam
Tell that to people in real-world elections. :P
those actually need money
Do they though? I think elections would be better without all the propaganda.
12:49 AM
Elections are primarily propoganda. If you removed all of it, what would even be left?
the money isn't just for ads
but that's not the point
A situation in which you actually pick the best candidate?
Well, if one guy is spending all the money on his campaign, what are you going to do? Not spend money? Taking money out of elections requires regulations from above.
the point is they're soliciting money on PPCG
Which in our case is Grace Note, and in the real world is the federal government.
Can't say I expected the election to be this exciting.
This is indeed fascinating.
not really
Trolls are fascinating?
Well it's certaintly not boring.
12:59 AM
Not the behaviour, just the entire situation.
The responses to the behaviour, the nature of the troll, etc.
And that despite there being provisions against this with regular posts, there seems to be a lack of reactionary tools for mod election posts.
because you need a lot of rep to make a nomination
unfortunately PPCG makes that pretty easy, as with SO
this is incredibly inane >_<
Ok, no matter what (graduated) site you're on, I don't believe 1k is enough rep to show you're an active member of the community.
Activity cannot be monitored by rep.
Niel's nomination is back down.
1:09 AM
goodness gracious what a nightmare
I can't find him by searching in users, I think his account was suspended/deleted
crosses fingers
it wasn't
Second result if you search by name.
Am I really that bad at searching?
1:12 AM
I am. I spelled it Niel.
"i before e except after c", you know?
That's actually an awful rule.
that rule is deficient
I before e except after c unless pronounced "ay" as in "neighbour" covers most of them.
Cough height cough
@Pavel Unless you're running a feisty heist on your weird beige neighbor.
Well, it's a proper name, so all bets are off anyway.
1:17 AM
It's back.
What on earth
Now featuring questionaire answers: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/14773/60042
There's a simple way to stop it: suspended users can't nominate themselves for elections, and they've definitely earned a suspension at this point
@Pavel Well, you only need 300.
@Mego Actually, that's enforced manually
as far as I'm aware
1:21 AM
@Mego I should have been more specific: I was referring to edits that don't invalidate existing answer
@Dennis 750: See vote counts. 300: Run for mod. Great.
a good example would be loosening restrictive I/O formats
@quartata no, it's not, can confirm
Oh sorry I meant the "recently suspended rule"
@NathanMerrill I'd rather consider each old challenge on a case-by-case basis, rather than making a blanket policy. There are too many variables to consider for a general policy.
1:22 AM
fair enough.
@Mego do you want me to repost my comment to be more clear?
I personally think that that's valuable information for the voter
Up to you
Bloody hell this conversation in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/72733/… is infuriating
remember when we thought we had problems with users?
I fully agree with Mego that a suspension is in order.
@Pavel I really don't know why it hasn't happened yet. Every minute that passes is another minute that the user gets to continue to troll those of us who take the election seriously.
1:37 AM
seemingly none of the pygame functions for converting a surface to have an alpha actually convert a surface to have an alpha
So.... has MathJax been enabled?
it'd be nice for my latest challenge
@mods since there's a clear consensus, and we seem to have some attention from SE staff, can we get mathjax?
Dennis has already been elected. He is a vital piece of information: teachers/professors have LIVES
@totallyhuman It's not up to the mods. Only SE staff can flip the switch. And there's still the bug with code blocks, which would be terrible for PPCG.
6 hours ago, by Grace Note
@Mr.Xcoder 's not a bother
1:46 AM
@Mego ...did you read the whole message
also mathjax doesn't seem to trigger in code blocks anymore
@totallyhuman Yes, I did. There's no point in addressing it to our mods, since they have no more of a say than we do. Grace would be the one to bother.
yeah but Grace needs to know first, right? :P
So ping Grace?
@totallyhuman You can ping Grace, been in the room recently.
...alright ok I thought I'd best leave it up to a mod, but ok
1:49 AM
Is this "Grace" knew? Was she/he a different username once?
@Zacharý Grace Note isn't new. She's been a member of the community team at SE for a while. Previously, I think she was a mod on Arqade.
@Zacharý Grace is a community manager. I don't think they've had different usernames
@Zacharý Grace is a communit manager for SE, who used to be a mod of arqade.se. Always has been known as Grace Note.
Double ninja'd
She hasn't been in TNB except just recently though.
1:51 AM
@GraceNote the community believes that we want mathjax, can we please have mathjax enabled?
@Pavel She was the one who did our graduation announcement and first election announcement. She was around both of those times.
@Mego Well yeah, I'm just saying she's usually not pingable from here.
What got her into PPCG?
@Zacharý Her job as community manager for stack exchange.
She doesn't actually post challenges or do code golf or anything.
She just stops by whenever major events like elections or graduations happen.
@totallyhuman iirc people have said not to ping her, but don't quote me on that
1:53 AM
she's basically the SE staff that handles ppcg
Someone cares.
@ConorO'Brien ...;-; I'm getting conflicting opinions halp
Someone cares about PPCG ._.
hah well she can't give us a design unfortunately
well we are going to get our design november 1st
1:56 AM
Is this for real?
@Zacharý It's something @Geobits is fond of saying constantly.
whaddaya think
Where has @Geobits been?
gosh dang it mobile chat.se
probably lifing
1:59 AM
@Zacharý He left SE because they took away his downvote button
wait what
@Mego Is this real?
2 mins ago, by totallyhuman
whaddaya think
@Zacharý No, but he would be proud of me for making you think it was :P
2:01 AM
Geobits is the good, funny kind of troll.
we need a thing, where a ton of ppcg old-timers come back for a day
at least
hey does ppcg have an anniversary of some sort?
It was a few days ago
dang it
if they left they left for a good reason
I'm not saying we should force them to be active :P
2:04 AM
@totallyhuman Here's the real deal - I got poked about this earlier and while I did reply, I didn't actually answer the question properly, oops. At any rate - consider it noted for review.
I'm just saying the people whose lives have unfortunately taken them away from ppcg could come back for a day, like a mini celebration
@Blue is this muddyfish
@GraceNote yay thanks :D
@Pavel When I first joined Stack Overflow I actually used the usernames "ccomet" and "ccornet"
2:07 AM
Okay, just a random question: has there ever been a prominent feminine member of the PPCG community? The reason I ask is the convention here is unknown => "he"/"they"
@totallyhuman Ah, but if they're no longer here, how do you invite them?
I changed to the current name I've used when Arqade was founded and I decided "I'm going to need a more consistent name if I'm being asked to be a pro tem moderator"
@Dennis yeah that's an issue but I think some attention still in contact through other means
@GraceNote "note"d for review? :)
@ConorO'Brien ♪
2:08 AM
@Zacharý Lynn is the only one I can think of
@GraceNote So you're a fan of keming, huh?
@GraceNote While you're here, can I also ask where your current chat.se profile pic is from?
@Mego At times ♪
@ConorO'Brien it is
2:10 AM
@Pavel Comes from a mobile phone game.
@GraceNote Aww man, I wanted to watch this anime.
Keming is keming with bad keming.
kerming is a new one
@Pavel All my avatars come from source material that was originally a game. 's my rule
2:12 AM
that message hurts
@GraceNote :O remembered Google Reverse Image Search is a thing, and actually useful in this case.
@Pavel I think badp actually plucked it through that as well
@tfbninja lol
's official card art after all
Ah yeah, Lynn exists. For some reason, I was unsure of her gender.
And is 's a game title?
2:14 AM
It's been a while
@Zacharý Tokiwa Kurumi from Battle Girl High School: battle-girl-highschool.wikia.com/wiki/Tokiwa_Kurumi
No, it's just short for a short of "it is"
@Pavel Hey, intentionally misspelling a word is harder than it seems.
At least it's harder than misspelling it unintentionally. I pull that off all the time.
2:16 AM
@GraceNote Huh, I have never seen 'it is' shortened like that.
@GraceNote 'Tis acceptable, but it's weird. 'S fine by me (I do a lot of crappy jokes by the way)
It's not done often if at all here
Wait a minute! 's is golfier than the other shortenings.
so Grace is a golfer
's the case that she's a golfer.
2:20 AM
@Mego You are correct
Oops we summoned him
quickly Googles how to unsummon a downvote demon
I'd expect Downgoat be more downvote-y, considering his name is a pun on downvote
2:22 AM
@Mego I believe the term is banish
@Geobits Throws laser pointer, because this is reminiscent of a certain someone
@Zacharý but... but geobits is a downvote
Maybe he should change his name to Downvote then
@Zacharý he tried to call himself "upgoat" in an attempt to stay positive. that worked "well"
2:26 AM
Maybe he should be an Esheepgoat.
he also went by wot a dong for a phase... that was weird
I think a screenshot of mine is partially responsible for that...
@Dennis I don't get it ._.
his client didn't render small capitals properly, rendering only a select few letters in Downgoat's name
@Pavel That was during the great small caps epidemic of 2016
2:32 AM
@Mego was that my fault? I had since forgotten
@ConorO'Brien Yes :P
I think my data explorer se/unofficial SE account still has small caps
@ConorO'Brien Which somehow included the o in Down, but not the one in goat.
....that is odd
2:35 AM
Downgoat had small caps in his name?
anyone have some complex latex for testing maths rendering?
F(j):=\dfrac{2e^j+\gamma\Omega(-j)}{\dfrac{\frac{4^a/b}5}{3}\int_\frac{3}{4}^{\sum_j^{\prod_{k\in K}k+1}{3j^j-F(j-1)}}}\mapsto\mathbf{B}
I have some complex latex generators for testing maths, but that's like the opposite.
Was that just you making up stuff?
this equation, given a date, will output the likelihood of us graduating, along with the RGBA value of the top-right corner of the final design
2:44 AM
._. That must be fake, What is capital omega>
@ConorO'Brien It can't possibly do that. Anything that magical always looks like garbage when you view it in any meaningful text encoding, but that clearly looks like math instead.
@Οurous you haven't looked at it long enough
@Zacharý the half partitive frequency function over the clopen space B ^3, using the inverse of a doubly applied cantor pairing function over its parameter. this should be basic algebra
didn't they teach you that in intro topology
2:49 AM
I see it now, hidden deep inside the formula: B•WÖàå - a proclamation
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Conor O'BrienFind relevant digit groupings code-golf number functional-programming Recently, my reputation was 25,121. I noticed that each digit grouping (i.e. the numbers separated by commas) was a perfect square. Your challenge is, given an integer N and a unary boolean Black Box Function f : Z → B , yie...

@Οurous, why did you put an omicron in your name?
@Zacharý Because several people in a TeamSpeak server I used to frequently visit turned off my custom phonetic nickname out of spite, and so I decided that since the text-to-speech feature butchered it anyway (which is why I use a custom one, orus) it may as well butcher it horrifically.
3:06 AM
@DJMcMayhem I have made a font type thing in pygame and it's basically finished now
the only issues with your handwriting are the jumbo 8 (which I think semi-significantly increases line height) and the fact I'm not kerning the q and u at this point. and also the fact that the characters provided for the ocr didn't include punctuation if that counts
not really significant issues of course though
btw, if you're trying for every letter, it should be 'jumps'
@DestructibleLemon ^
oh right
I hypercorrected it
3:32 AM
Explain "custom phonetic nickname"
@Οurous ^
@Zacharý a string that the text-to-speech voice will attempt to pronounce in various announcements. eg: <name> has joined your channel, <name> has timed out
It defaults to your username
But often, you want it to be different (or at least pronounced differently than it pronounces your username)
So, you could make it read phonetically unrelated things to the username then. THat's cool
Having "Dennis" being read as "11" or something
3:48 AM
It's something the user sets though iirc
which means it can be abused fairly easily
also 2007 called
something something
4:11 AM
running for election is hard :P
@Christopher Are you going to?
@DJMcMayhem might as well
Kind of addicted to this website
I mean I have to get up in less then 8 hours but here I am
On the subject of Language of the Month: Peter Taylor suggested that we disallow people from nominating languages they themselves created. I think the idea has some merit, and his comment has three upvotes. Should I change the rules (allowing existing nominations to stay)? Or should I get community input first by posting a separate meta question?
@DJMcMayhem I mean I am a member of BSA and currently finishing paperwork for my eagle
@DLosc I would actually suggest extending the suggestion to prohibit people who are (functionally) the only user of a language they didn't create from nominating it. Meaning that for languages with only one active user, someone other than that user would need to nominate it.
4:24 AM
@Christopher just an FYI people who have been suspended within the past year cannot run, your entry will most likely be removed
@quartata The message said you could If you message the team, considering I reported my self and it was almost a year ago (iirc) will talk to them. If not that is fine and I will wait.
It was in june
@Οurous Hm. That seems a bit subjective (how many answers in a language make someone an "active" user?).
Also, if a language has two users, one of whom is the creator, is the other person still allowed to nominate it?
isn't the entire point of the language of the month thing for languages people don't really use, so making it so someone can't nominate a language they like, even if they didn't make it, seems sort of backwards or something
@DLosc Use the same subjectivity criterion as "Golfs Regularly", and I would say yes for the second point.
@DestructibleLemon Those are my thoughts, too.
4:35 AM
@DestructibleLemon Ooohh. I didn't think about it from that perspective. I was just following the similarity with nominating your own language.
@DLosc I retract my suggestion as per ^
also nominating your own language, i can sort of see why that can be sort of a bad idea, but at the same time the idea is to get attention for languages
@DLosc I'd just add that to the next month
if people don't like the language they can downvote it i guess
@DestructibleLemon BTW, I saw (and appreciated) the BrainFlak nomination :)
I liked the way you described function vs value
Yeah I think I'd like to comment that the thing was designed to help people raise awareness of their languages and stuff, not to have a language appreciation club or something I think
4:37 AM
@Christopher BSA?
> Whereas, many of us are the inventors of said interesting languages, and would like to teach them to others, and
@DJMcMayhem boy scouts of america
from the original post
@DJMcMayhem There's only one nominations thread, though, we don't start a new one each month.
4:43 AM
Oh. Why not?
@quartata Wait, is that manually enforced? I thought it was automatically enforced
No, manually
That doesn't make sense
Shog goes around and removes them
@DJMcMayhem Because if I thought Language_X was a good nomination three months ago, I shouldn't have to go back and upvote it again each month. Also, less clutter on Meta. Also, that's how other sites have done it. :)
@DestructibleLemon "language appreciation club" This is a really good point, and something I've been worried about myself.
Imma go to bed ttyl
4:47 AM
Ok sure. So each month, the highest voted post is selected and deleted
You will get deleted post clutter, but that's not too much of an issue
Yeah, one per month is nowhere near as bad as the sandbox.
Can I edit codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/14773/60042 to take up less vertical space?
@Pavel Seems like a good idea to me
@DJMcMayhem I was heading into 2nd grade when I got the Hello World! python book for my birthday.
5:29 AM
... I get +20 here and -15 on some other sites, and SE displays as +5. Somewhat confusing.
@Pavel Nice!
I can't recall exactly when I was introduced to QBasic, but I was probably 10 or 11.
Okay, so given the discussion and differing views that it generated here in chat, should I post a Meta question about banning Language-of-the-Month self-nominations?
6:09 AM
@DLosc that said, a language appreciation club is a decent idea in its own right, just as part of another thing
I'm totally fine with allowing self-nominations. The whole point of voting is to filter out what's actually good.
;_; rip sad-flak
6:27 AM
Yeah, I'm posting this on Meta. Lots of divergent opinions.
(Incidentally, the far-and-away leader in the voting, currently at +21/-0, is Brachylog... a self-nomination.)
@DestructibleLemon if it helps, I have nothing against sad-flak, nor against you, despite voting it down. I just don't think it's a good showcase.
I think the other votes are probably similar
i guess...
i wouldn't have nominated Turtlèd because the interpreter is crap
7:20 AM
Q: Should we allow people to nominate their own language for Language of the Month?

DLoscIn a comment on the Language of the Month nominations thread, Peter Taylor raised a valid point: It might be worth prohibiting nominations of your own language. If a language is genuinely interesting, it should be possible to find someone else who's willing to advocate it; and if you can't fi...

8:00 AM
Q: Purge or Crumble

TmanokCan you allocated all of your system's memory before your computer purges unnecessary memory allocation? To be fair let's make the purge happen every time your system calculates a thousand digits of pi. Do this is as few characters as possible, have a blast :) I'll think of more and hopefully be...

2 hours later…
9:49 AM
Once agan, the sandbox can't detect duplicate. (NX challenge)
If you look at the votes and answers, a fair number of users (myself included) also missed that it was a duplicate.
What a shame :p
10:04 AM
Man, fever dreams give me such great inspiration for challenges
But it takes like 3 days to remember enough of them to write the challenge
11:07 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MegoMinimum-cost flow problem A flow network is a directed graph G = (V, E) with a source vertex s ϵ V and a sink vertex t ϵ V, and where every edge (u, v) ϵ E on the graph (connecting nodes u ϵ V and v ϵ V) has 2 quantities associated with it: c(u, v) >= 0, the capacity of the edge a(u, v) >= 0, ...

12:12 PM
APL is not a golfing language, but rather an array-oriented language which allows interactive development of full-stack multi-paradigm applications with industrial strength. — Adám 18 secs ago
@NewSandboxedPosts this come to you in a fever dream?
Not max-flow min-cost, but that's particular-flow min-cost?
... which is just equivalent to max-flow min-cost after added a edge restricting maximum flow value...
@Mego Is it guaranteed that there exists such a flow?
Have we have vanilla max-flow and max-flow min-cost?
12:29 PM
@user202729 Yes
@user202729 I don't think so
@totallyhuman Yes. I dreamt of cars and traffic
So this may be overkill...
A: Is there a name or operator for the equivalent of the definition of nor?

Adám Yes, APL and some of its dialects have nor (and nand). In APL, nor is denoted ⍱ (since ∨ is or and ~ is not): ∇ result←ExampleOne color :If (color≡'green')⍱(color≡'blue') result←'warm' :Else result←'cold' :EndIf ∇ ∇ result←ExampleTwo(x y) :If x⍱y result←'x is false a...

(practical problems are often not suitable for code-golf often because it's too hard and not too interesting)
12:33 PM
Well, min-cost flow is just a linear programming problem. And, as you said, max-flow min-cost and min-cost flow can be transformed into each other with small changes to the network.
I can't think of any other LP problems that I've seen on PPCG
"Problem defined by LP" is not the same thing as "problem solved by LP"...
1 hour later…
1:37 PM
Morning guys.
2:16 PM
Just had to share this really cool answer:
A: Golf you a quine for great good!

Jo KingLost, 120 116 bytes :2+52*:6*>:::[:[[[+2-+$>::[[:[[@>%>(((((((((([[[[[[[[[[ " <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<v<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Note the trailing newline (I'm not sure it's necessary, because the normal output prints with a newline, but the verifier doesn't) Try it online! + verific...

@WheatWizard witchcraft.
I posted an encrypt challenge on sandbox lately. I was thinking if a decrypt challenge for the same would be nice?
I'd at least wait a while.
But in general unless the tasks are very different I just wouldn't
Decryption is opposite but I believe, more challenging
Indeed, Jo has a steady stream of wonderful Esolang answers. He has an amazing esoteric mindset :)
2:24 PM
> This means there has to be a lot of error-checking at every stage to make sure you've got the correct instruction pointer, and it isn't one that has just wandered in off the street, thinking you're a hat store or something.
This line alone makes it my favorite explanation
Yeah I would post both on the main with delay
Will write the second challenge on sandbox sometime soon
Wow already bountied in less than half an hour :)
Hey, anyone want to help me try and figure out how bitbucket.org/thomas_bartscher/poslin-specification worked? The spec is incomplete, and it's a wonderful esoteric language. I want to try and reimplement it
2:44 PM
... can a instance of min cost max flow be transformed into min cost fixed flow problem? Or you need to find the flow first?
@user202729 You would need to determine the max flow, and then set d to that value
That's not easy at all...
(the reverse transformation is just "add an edge")
@user202729 It's no more difficult than solving the min-cost max-flow problem directly (I use "difficult" here in terms of asymptotic complexity)
Current mod nominations: PhiNotPi, Mego, and DJ. I have to pick two?!?
I think Math.random() will help picking 😂
2:54 PM
well, if there are only 3 nominations until nomination period ends, then yes, you will presumably vote for two of the three places, but the third would be implied :P
@ManishKundu I would literally be happy with any result, so I might well do that... :P
actually you're only harming the process that way ;)
nobody said you're obliged to vote
I am not even going to vote
@El'endiaStarman yeah phi was a surprise and it makes this a lot harder

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