The Nineteenth Byte

Step Hen

20:00

@HyperNeutrino really? why does a=b=1 work then

HyperNeutrino

For functions, it acts as a keyword argument. Otherwise, it's invalid syntax

@StepHen That's a special case

I don't exactly know how it works ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino b=1, then a=(b=1) and b=1 == 1

Noah Cristino

can't you do a,b == 1

??

HyperNeutrino

oh it must've been because I was using undefined variables then

@NoahCristino no

It has to unpack the right side then

Noah Cristino

what language?

HyperNeutrino

20:01

so a,b=1,2 works for a=1;b=2 (no golfing advantage)

totallyhuman

python

HyperNeutrino

@NoahCristino python

Noah Cristino

oh

Step Hen

@NoahCristino plus you have == instead of =

Noah Cristino

I thought that

a,b=1

is valid

Step Hen

20:02

@HyperNeutrino it's doesn't work in as a condition, wonder why

@NoahCristino a=b=1

Noah Cristino

TypeError: 'int' object is not iterable

Step Hen

or a,b=1,2

Noah Cristino

for a,b=1

oops

HyperNeutrino

@NoahCristino because a,b,...,c,d = ? will unpack the right side

Noah Cristino

I just got here

Step Hen

20:02

@HyperNeutrino a,b = 1 gets the first two items from 1, but 1 isn't an iterable

Noah Cristino

idk what your talking about

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen yes

Not just the first two. If you do a,b=1,2,3 it will also give errors

Step Hen

@NoahCristino a = [1,2] makes a list

then b,c = a would get the list and put 1 in b and 2 in c

> Note that in Python, unlike C, assignment cannot occur inside expressions. C programmers may grumble about this, but it avoids a common class of problems encountered in C programs: typing = in an expression when == was intended.

golfers against simplicity unite

Noah Cristino

I know tons of languages

I mix things up

Downgoat

@StepHen I have never once encountered this problem I call BS

totallyhuman

20:06

@Downgoat is your code perfect? :P

Step Hen

@Downgoat I encountered it all the time when I was learning. However, if I hadn't learned Visual Basic first, I probably wouldn't have. In Visual Basic, = is both assignment and comparison.

Noah Cristino

you can do

a,b=(1,2)

Downgoat

@totallyhuman I am on PPCG so you know the answer:P

Step Hen

@NoahCristino yup that's what I just said :P

Noah Cristino

oops

Step Hen

20:07

@NoahCristino (1,2) is an iterable, a,b = (1,2) unpacks the iterable

wizzwizz4

Could somebody join and leave The BBS to test the CSS?

Downgoat

imo assignment in loop conditions is an invaluable feature that should be sacrificed because new programmer didn't read docs

Step Hen

@Downgoat I remember looking at a classmate's Java code and he was having a bug

Noah Cristino

did it

Step Hen

His bug was because his condition was if (val = true)

HyperNeutrino

20:08

Huh. The animation is gone in TNB.

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino that's what the meta post is about, right?

HyperNeutrino

Have any significant changes happened to TNB in the past bit?

@StepHen yes :P

Downgoat

@StepHen I can also cause bugs by typing 11 instead of 1 but that doesn't mean we disallow all two digit numbers

totallyhuman

/o_o

that's not the point

Step Hen

@Downgoat I'm not saying don't allow it, I'm saying don't teach programmers to be stupid

@Downgoat why you would ever include == true in any condition is beyond me

Okx

20:10

@MDXF It ended up a bit too much like brainfuck... any suggestions? gist.github.com/okx-code/da1b356b7c2aa2125195c3183b4233cd

Downgoat

@totallyhuman it's not his point it's my point :P

HyperNeutrino

@Mr.Xcoder Rod wins again

Step Hen

At least in Java

HyperNeutrino

> Segmention Fault

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino jeez

HyperNeutrino

20:10

gtg now o/

totallyhuman

i think everybody over 10k gets golfing super powers

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Cardinal Code code-golf You're in charge of making a compass, of sorts, where your source code shall be the "needle". You report cardinal directions based on the orientation that your code was ran. Supported directions are N, E, S, W, for North, East, South, and West respectively. Rotating yo...

Step Hen

@totallyhuman no, you need super golfing powers to get 10k

Unless your name is Helka Homba

totallyhuman

brb changing my name

MD XF

Anyone using a non-Windows OS?

DJMcMayhem

20:13

No but I have a VM

Okx

hahahahahaHhahA windows

MD XF

Well if anyone's using non-Windows, pls check this out and add info

2

A: What happened to the Chat SE joining/leaving animation?

People seem to encounter this issue using: Firefox 54.0.1 on Windows x86_64 in The Nineteenth Byte. Chrome 59.0.3071.115 on Windows x86_64 in The Nineteenth Byte. Internet Explorer 11.0.9600.18737 on Windows x86_64 in The Nineteenth Byte. People seem to not encounter this issue using: Chro...

Downgoat

@MDXF yes

MD XF

@Downgoat ^^

totallyhuman

i still have animation

Okx

20:15

totallyhuman just floated in

totallyhuman

i'm using windows rn though

Okx

i didn't ;-;

dzaima

..turned off the PPCG graduation script and okx glided in with the regular animation

totallyhuman

that might be it

MD XF

I don't have it on

AdmBorkBork

20:17

@MDXF Oh, sweet ... do we get to add this as another in the list of bugs that PPCG has discovered?

totallyhuman

okx floated in

Adám

@Mr.Xcoder APL (non-competing?), score 0: ×\⍳

Okx

i just float in when i turned the grad script off

Wheat Wizard

Is this a code-trolling question? It seems to be to me but I'm not sure

dzaima

@MDXF hmm.. well disabling if fixed it for me

Okx

20:18

it's the grad script and se are probably not going to care

my conclusion

MD XF

@Okx I don't have it on and nobody floats in for me

@Okx os/browser/version?

Okx

oh?

super weird

same as pretty much everyone else chrome windows

windows is still a joke btw

Step Hen

I believe it's working fine for me (Chrome, Windows)

only some of the time though, floating in is a lot less consistent than floating out

totallyhuman

i'm using... edge (gah) on windows rn

Wheat Wizard

Oh wait I got code-trolling and underhanded confused

It is most certainly underhanded

Mr. Xcoder

20:21

@HyperNeutrino ? Why?

MD XF

@totallyhuman and you're still alive???

totallyhuman

@Mr.Xcoder it's golfier?

@MDXF on the edge

MD XF

aw yiss I'm top HNQ

Step Hen

no onebox: click here

8

Mr. Xcoder

Oh yeah, sorry

MD XF

20:22

I'm also ~75th on HNQ

totallyhuman

lol

looks like we failed in our mission to not star messages >_>

Okx

ah well

maybe we can stop starring at 50k

Step Hen

@Okx don't, stop, me now... I'm having a good time, having a good time,

MD XF

Guys look at my SO rep curve

it's hilarious

totallyhuman

XD MF

Step Hen

20:25

what did you lose rep for?

MD XF

Bounties

I bounty every exceptional answer that helps me 'cause I don't care about my SO rep

Okx

I know there was this guy on SO who gave a 500 rep bounty to every single question he asked and his rep went up and down etc

Step Hen

@MDXF lucky you, you have enough to do that

MD XF

@StepHen Want some? :P link a really good answer in C (or in a non-language) and I'll see lol

Step Hen

@MDXF you got all your rep from a question :P

but I don't spend any time on SO so that's mostly why

MD XF

20:27

Nah only 1.5k :P

Step Hen

Once I have a year of college under my belt I'll be better off

MD XF

visited 283 days, 5 consecutive about 150 of those, and the 5 consecutive, are accidental

wut my SO rep is 3.5k my PPCG rep is 5.3k :o

Step Hen

I was informed that my college laptop will come with Mathematica

guess I better start learning it so I can get a head start

totallyhuman

built in all the things

Step Hen

@totallyhuman more like, make Calc classes easy

totallyhuman

20:32

well as long as mathematica shows you how it gets to the result

i'm really yearning for wolfram alpha pro because it has step by step solutions

Step Hen

@totallyhuman what I mean it I get a license and it installed on my laptop and everything

totallyhuman

@StepHen no like when you put in a problem it shows you step by step how it got to a solution

Step Hen

@totallyhuman I know what you mean, I'll get the desktop version, which I believe is better than Wolfram Alpha Pro

I think

totallyhuman

nice

MD XF

Wow 8 python answers

totallyhuman

20:38

hehe

ASCII-only

Uh symbolab is for working

Not Wolfram

Downgoat

@ASCII-only is symbolab a white/brown/black dog which is good with Greek letters?

totallyhuman

i yet again request for a js wizard to put a validity checker here

AdmBorkBork

@Downgoat Cerberus / Labrador hybrid

Downgoat

Omy

ASCII-only

20:41

@Downgoat yes essentially

Downgoat

@ASCII-only :O

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman on mobile RN can't do it for another hour

HyperNeutrino

welp

I just chopped an onion for the first time in my life

totallyhuman

don't cry

HyperNeutrino

I don't get how people are affected so much by onions?????

totallyhuman

20:43

lol

Step Hen

@totallyhuman jsfiddle.net/t4ujwm1s/2/embedded/result

Downgoat

@HyperNeutrino people =/= neutrino...

AdmBorkBork

It affects people differently, and it depends on the onion.

totallyhuman

that's a fiddle though

Step Hen

now you just have to make it do stack stuff :P

totallyhuman

20:43

a snippet would be better

Step Hen

you know how to do stack-exchange-api right?

HyperNeutrino

@AdmBorkBork I think it was the kind that causes torture less

@Downgoat lol that's true

AdmBorkBork

Generally speaking, round white onions are the "strongest", while a yellow or red onion, especially one that's more "squished" is going to be weaker

Downgoat

@totallyhuman validity checker for what

AdmBorkBork

Programming Puzzles and Food Talk

totallyhuman

20:45

@Downgoat there's a link in that message :P

HyperNeutrino

I think it was a somewhat squished yellow onion :P

trichoplax

@totallyhuman Validity meaning no illegal characters in the first code block?

wizzwizz4

By the way, there's nothing in the moderator agreement prohibiting moderators from being bots. I was mistaken.

totallyhuman

lol

HyperNeutrino

lol

totallyhuman

20:49

@trichoplax yeah

Downgoat

@totallyhuman so you want to validate if valid link?

trichoplax

@totallyhuman The code for Red vs Blue - Pixel Team Battlebots already has code that reads the first code block from every answer into a variable. The next step (checking if any of a list of illegal characters appears) should be trivial, if someone wants to do that.

HyperNeutrino

@MDXF I must be blind for not noticing that p != q lol. thanks

Wheat Wizard

@StepHen Why did you vote to leave this open? I'm not trying to harass you our anything, I'm just curious.

ATaco

@feersum I can confirm, this works as is.

MD XF

20:55

@HyperNeutrino Wasn't you, I edited literally every answer

HyperNeutrino

ecks dee (lol)

MD XF

I had an error in the spec

For some reason I thought that p was b rotated 180 degrees

HyperNeutrino

oh it was the question spec lol

so I'm not blind \o/

MD XF

Nope

Like I said. I had to edit every answer

HyperNeutrino

xD

MD XF

20:58

/tableflip

totallyhuman

damn

i was wondering why it was edited then i realized you edited every single answer

MD XF

c'mon one more delete vote...

@totallyhuman Does nobody read the edit messages :P

HyperNeutrino

@MDXF deleted

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino :D

totallyhuman

@MDXF no edit message for me

MD XF

20:59

Highly downvoted, trash, closed posts are no use to the site

@totallyhuman Whoops

totallyhuman

> added 1 character to the body

yes very informative

MD XF

yes very .... oops sorry

totallyhuman

lol s'ok

i mean the fact that you went and edited every single answer and the tio link...

i would've just stuck a comment on all of 'em lol

MD XF

Meh. I didn't wanna annoy everybody and leave a comment saying "i dun goofed now you have to waste ur time pls and thank u :D"

totallyhuman

lol

41 mins ago, by totallyhuman

@MDXF on the edge

wizzwizz4

21:03

TIL None is singular.

totallyhuman

nobody got my joke ;-;

@wizzwizz4 wat

"none of them are"

that sounds right

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman I got it, I just wasn't in the room at the time :P

wizzwizz4

@totallyhuman "not one of them is happy"

None == no'ne

HyperNeutrino

>>> type(None)() == type(None)()
<<< True

wizzwizz4

@HyperNeutrino That's because None is a singleton.

HyperNeutrino

21:05

yup

Oh I thought you were talking about Python None being singular as in a singleton

wizzwizz4

Singular and singleton are similar words, providing more credibility to the singularity of none.

HyperNeutrino

xD

wizzwizz4

@HyperNeutrino No. But it's a good argument.

ATaco

I fixed MaybeLater demanding a semicolon after everything but not erroring if one isn't provided.

Step Hen

@WheatWizard I saw New challenges of the type previously posted under this tag are not welcome. and it didn't say anything about old so I left it

totallyhuman

21:13

totallyhuman

5.2k 1 9

;-;

trichoplax

Which part of that upsets you?

Step Hen

@totallyhuman ha I have more meta silvers than you

MD XF

@totallyhuman whoa, user oneboxing is a thing?

HyperNeutrino

@MDXF flairs

wizzwizz4

Sandbox if you want to experiment.

MD XF

21:15

Ah

wizzwizz4

@HyperNeutrino These are slightly different to the flairs.

trichoplax

@HyperNeutrino Flairs are a different thing. Not sure if they work in here too

wizzwizz4

The flairs are only one image.

Step Hen

@wizzwizz4 I just didn't want to leave an ugly onebox behind

wizzwizz4

The flairs work in here. They're just images.

HyperNeutrino

21:16

oh hm. nvm then

wizzwizz4

@StepHen That was a good idea. Besides, I was speaking generally to remind people.

Step Hen

> Some links will be automatically inlined if posted on a single line by themselves, such as:

> Stack Exchange questions, answers, and users

Wheat Wizard

@StepHen I see. The meta does say that old questions of the type should be closed as well. But I'm not going to tell you how to vote.

Step Hen

@WheatWizard oh, didn't know that, it's not in the tag wiki that I saw when I hovered, thanks

I thought as much but I wasn't sure

MD XF

pls support

Or don't, that works too

:P

Step Hen

21:21

@MDXF why waste our time on that, except to get badges? we'll miss any challenges from new users who don't know what's going on - best bet would be to ask SE to automate it

MD XF

No we won't miss new challenges, there's still the Newest Questions page

And it'll only take an hour or two if we get twenty or so people on it

Step Hen

@MDXF removing the same text from hundreds of posts screams automation

MD XF

That's true

s/questions/answers

how would we ask SE to automate it?

totallyhuman

Community

How they replaced http with https

Step Hen

@MDXF meta.stackexchange.com/a/93989/359104

~~maybe relevant~~ answer from Jeff Atwood about automating away ~half a million greetings

wizzwizz4

21:28

Hopefully no one will create a language called Salutations! in which all the keywords are greetings. It would make for an interesting "Hello world" application... ;) — TrueWill Sep 10 '11 at 19:46

Who wants to make this?

MD XF

Oh, now I do, lol

but I'm already in the middle of like four langs

totallyhuman

So that's what's breaking my Lolcode-related questions :( — toniedzwiedz Aug 8 '12 at 15:20

New Meta Posts

21:45

-2

Q: Remove noncompeting status from all submissions

As per Let's allow newer languages/versions for older challenges, we no longer need to mark answers that utilize languages created after the challenge as noncompeting. However, there are still 917 + 207 = 1124 answers with that word in the body or header. I think they should be removed as they a...

discussion support editing noncompeting

0

Q: Is it OK to post restricted challenges where only some people may participate?

Recently a Friendly Challenge was posted on Code Review Meta where PPCG challenged Code Review. The post on Code Review Meta says: I am planning on hosting a King of the Hill challenge Programming Puzzles and Code Golf VS. Code Review. This challenge got me thinking: Is it okay to post a c...

discussion asking-questions challenges

Zizouz212

Hmm... Working for me.

See ya later folks. None of you will see me leave :P

MD XF

2 more hours until I can ~~waste~~ use all tomorrow's votes on the answers to my challenge...

Step Hen

22:12

@MDXF My electorate % progress gets killed every time I post a challenge

flawr

@Zizouz212 I did see you leave.

MD XF

@StepHen I quit trying because the ratio of answers to questions on this site is like 20:1

Zizouz212

We have a winner!

MD XF

@Zizouz212 ...of?

Zizouz212

Being attentive? I don't know...

flawr

22:23

@ProgramFOX @StepHen @EriktheOutgolfer we should reconsider the deletion this submission submission, since we allow also for many more non-programming-language-submissions like html+css, svg, image magick

ATaco

Multi line markdown doesn't exist here

flawr

GIF, tikz, bitmap

Downgoat

@MDXF random question: why is your username MD XF does it mean something or did you just like fall asleep on keyboard when creating SE account

trichoplax

Is the exception to our rules on programming languages because this is a kolmogorov-complexity challenge?

Wheat Wizard

@flawr tikz is Turing complete by the way,

@trichoplax We allow non languages on everything

trichoplax

22:27

@WheatWizard I must have missed the meta post

flawr

@WheatWizard well tikz is a package of latex, so I do not think it does make a lot of sense to use it without the context of latex, which obviously is turing complete

@trichoplax I don't know whether there are exceptions, but I think this deletion is not justified, even more so considering there are a bunch of other submissions that happily get upvoted but could be deleted with the same reasoning.

@WheatWizard could you provide a link to that?

Wheat Wizard

Yeah I'm trying to find it rn

ppperry

8

Q: Do submissions have to be answered with a programming language?

We've got various answers strewn across meta that tell different stories: On the standard loopholes, we disallow answers that aren't programming languages. This appears to be the most definitive answer of the lot. It has a vote count of 16/-8. However, on a question that asks "Should answers ...

discussion

flawr

@ProgramFOX @StepHen @EriktheOutgolfer consider this ^

oh it is so late again, cu guys.

trichoplax

@ppperry Thanks - I just managed to track that down and came here to post it

Step Hen

22:37

@flawr when I deleted it the code was Ctrl C Ctrl V

I dunno what that counts as but I didn't get it

trichoplax

@flawr Now that I know about the meta consensus, I've cast the final vote to undelete

Step Hen

It looks a lot better now, I would have voted to undelete if it wasn't already

@HyperNeutrino my "language" is really weird. This is the debug output for this program when run with input "Step Hen"

MD XF

@Downgoat I thought it up randomly, then ten months later I realized that it was the only four letters not in my full name

Step Hen

@MDXF let's all guess your middle name

MD XF

@StepHen Three middle names

Aaron Ryan Klingler are the names I'm willing to share with ... anyone

I haven't even told my employer the other middle two

Step Hen

22:41

@MDXF You have two middle names that combined are like 6 letters?

MD XF

@StepHen No, where do you get that from?

Step Hen

@MDXF that fact that I'm an idiot

and you can use letters multiple times in a name

MD XF

Yeah :P

Step Hen

OK, I have a screwed up language that, when used non-trivially, creates very hard to predict output. How can I use it?

New Main Posts

1

Q: Will Mario fall into the Shrinking Satellite?

Super Mario Galaxy features two rhombicuboctahedron-shaped* planets tiled with platforms that shrink as Mario runs across. Should Mario fall into a triangular hole or a gap left by a tile he previously touched, he will be consumed by the black hole at the core. (Watch: Hurry-Scurry Galaxy, Sea Sl...

code-golf decision-problem 3d

trichoplax

22:45

@StepHen As the topic of a tough challenge?

totallyhuman

heh

Step Hen

@trichoplax hm. I could also change the language to not allow presetting the tape... that might make it not possible to hardcode stuff

@trichoplax and then make it a challenge, once hard coding is removed

trichoplax

What's the problem with hardcoding?

Step Hen

@trichoplax if you do anything except hardcoding, the output is very unexpected/hard to predict

I mean hardcoding the output of the language into the source

Like, Hello, World! vs something that generates that

trichoplax

So if your challenge requires taking input, then hardcoding won't help?

Step Hen

22:49

@trichoplax correct

ASCII-only

any symbol representing unicode?

trichoplax

In ASCII?

ASCII-only

in unicode

Step Hen

@ASCII-only question mark, or in unicode, the black diamond question mark, or a box

trichoplax

What have you done with the real ASCII-only??

ASCII-only

22:50

@StepHen +1 good idea tyvm

Step Hen

@trichoplax Here's an example

ASCII-only

@trichoplax sorry it is for the greater good of golfy ascii art

trichoplax

@ASCII-only Fair enough :P

ASCII-only

@StepHen :| is there an actual black diamond character

Step Hen

@ASCII-only yes

> U+FFFD � REPLACEMENT CHARACTER used to replace an unknown, unrecognized or unrepresentable character

trichoplax

22:52

@StepHen It's lost on me...

Step Hen

@trichoplax I know, but just change the input a little and see the output difference

trichoplax

@StepHen Ah. I see

So it's like Malbolge?

Step Hen

@trichoplax I still don't even know how to use it

@trichoplax I guess, but not quite so complicated, and it's not mandatory to do wonky stuff, although I'm considering removing the ability to hardcode

@trichoplax Thanks for this convo - it's helped me solidify my thoughts

trichoplax

@StepHen I'm glad it helped, although I can't pretend to understand what's going on :)

Step Hen

@trichoplax I'll get back to you once I remove the ability to hardcode Hello, World! and then figure out how to do it for real :P

trichoplax

22:55

@StepHen I'll take a 6 month holiday :P

TIL PHP is case insensitive for functions but case sensitive for variables

I don't know why you esolang writers do things like this

ppperry

18

Q: Find the Interwoven Source Codes (Cops)

This is the cops' thread. For the robbers' thread, go here. Introduction For this Cops/Robbers challenge, the cops will write output-producing programs and interweave them together. It is the robber's job to pick apart the cops' programs to produce the desired outputs. Cop rules The cops may ...

code-golf cops-and-robbers

Step Hen

@ppperry yes, that is perfect

thank you so much

now I have to figure out how my language works

ppperry

unfortunately, old cops-and-robbers questions don't get much attention

Step Hen

@ppperry if I put 10 different answers on it maybe someone will care about my lang :P

ppperry

true

Step Hen

22:58

unless it's too ~~crappy~~ convoluted to understand

ppperry

and then you get a free safe answer

Step Hen

actually, once I remove hardcoding, anything that maps output -> program would be next to impossible to crack

Transcript for