The Nineteenth Byte

Magic Octopus Urn

20:00

Oh lord, you'd be better off having dennis query tio

Step Hen

And this idea actually uses chars that a language doesn't use much, not chars that any language doesn't use much

Magic Octopus Urn

Idk how you'd differentiate betwee ncode explanations and code.

Conor O'Brien

um

Magic Octopus Urn

Like for an 05AB1E "# EXPLAIN" you'd be f**d.

HyperNeutrino

>.<

Conor O'Brien

20:00

just make a good answer

Step Hen

@MagicOctopusUrn oh that part is easy, just get the first code block only

betseg

Nvm misread my rep

Magic Octopus Urn

No, I mean for the inline explanations on esolangs.

@StepHen You'd also be grabbing explanations unless you mean only scraping TIO answers.

Step Hen

I swear I typed first

Magic Octopus Urn

Like <TIO HEADING><TIO CODE BLOCK><TIO LINK>, actually yeh that'd work; you're right.

Step Hen

20:02

Anyway, I meant only pull out the first codeblock's contents

for each answer

HyperNeutrino

The Hello World program for Ceres is absolutely disgusting but still great anyway xD

Magic Octopus Urn

api.stackexchange.com/docs/…

api.stackexchange.com/2.2/…

There you go.

Gaddang markup is way uglier than markdown.

Ha, my most recent answer is first.

totallyhuman

I keep reading "Urn" as "Um"

"Magic Octopus Um... Can I have three wishes?"

Conor O'Brien

@AdmBorkBork I'm golfing a powershell answer, and I'm trying to extract the first result of a regex "(.+) <". Is there any shorter way than accessing $matches[1]?

Step Hen

@MagicOctopusUrn is there any way to search inside the answer before I fetch it? I.e., search by language

@MagicOctopusUrn you can specify body_markdown instead of body

HyperNeutrino

20:14

There I made a shorter Hello World program in Ceres

Step Hen

@MagicOctopusUrn api.stackexchange.com/2.2/…*G2QY

HyperNeutrino

“Hello, World!”Æp

Despite the look of it, there still are no strings :P

Business Cat

That pushes a list of numbers?

HyperNeutrino

Well actually just a huge base 255 number, though I should change that.

totallyhuman

i'm assuming you have a two byte builtin for printing a list of numbers as ASCII characters in which case, /o____o

HyperNeutrino

20:16

yes I do :P

Both using chr and codepage.__getitem__

So much for it being a sequences language, that didn't work :P

totallyhuman

:P the way intrnt is going, it isn't an internet language either

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino mwhahaha :P

totallyhuman

and if it ends up being a plain old golflang... then i'll probably just abandon it >_>

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen I'm not done with making new languages yet :P Just you wait, one day in a few months I'll make a sequences language to outgolf yours in every way I can >:-D :P

I want to focus on Ceres though because for once, this language is less than 99% trash so far.

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino ok, but to make it fair you have to use ASCII :P

@HyperNeutrino that's good

HyperNeutrino

20:19

sure :P

Is it fair if I pick 16 characters and do half-byte encoding to get 256 commands? ;P

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino well I'm only working with 128 bytes, but you can do SBCS if you want

totallyhuman

wait

Step Hen

All it means is that whenever I use one of my less used builtins I lose a byte

until I implement SBCS

HyperNeutrino

Ah. I'll use up to as many bytes as you use to be fair so I can have bragging rights iff I can outgolf you :P

totallyhuman

since unary needs there to be only one character

can you not change the byte count?

Step Hen

20:21

@totallyhuman it's the length of the code that matters

@HyperNeutrino I'll probably have implemented SBCS by the time you're done Ceres so it probably doesn't matter

Magic Octopus Urn

@StepHen if V was 10 instead of 9 I'd be sitting pretty at 120 bytes.

DJMcMayhem

If V was what now?

Magic Octopus Urn

Instead I'm here trying to figure out how to lose the 255: Try it online!

totallyhuman

@StepHen no but for example, if every character in <language> can only be two things, you could store each character in a bit

Magic Octopus Urn

@DJMcMayhem codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/137107/59376

Trying to golf that down more, but register X is needed for 255

DJMcMayhem

20:23

Oh, I thought you were talking about my V :P

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen True :P

Magic Octopus Urn

So I can't use it to save like 60 bytes

WELL, YOUR V SHOULD'VE MADE THE COUNTS OF V HIGHER THAN 9 SO I DO BLAME YOU.

Kidding, of course.

HyperNeutrino

ಠ_ಠ

Step Hen

@totallyhuman In unary, each byte can only be one thing

totallyhuman

exactly

so you could store it in much less right?

wait

HyperNeutrino

20:24

er what

Step Hen

not really

totallyhuman

hmm

Magic Octopus Urn

I'm actually suprised, is the letter V not used in V?

HyperNeutrino

I capped today??? I was not expecting that

totallyhuman

you'd still have to store each char in a bit

Step Hen

20:24

you can change base and then save it

@totallyhuman yeah

except not

totallyhuman

/o_o

Step Hen

not on modern computers, because you can't have half bits

Mr. Xcoder

Yaay, just reached 6k!

Step Hen

and if there are ones then it's not unary

Magic Octopus Urn

Ooo... That'd be a good SE API challenge: How many days in a row would you have to cap out on REP to beat the person in first?

HyperNeutrino

20:25

@Mr.Xcoder congrats!

Step Hen

so you need bytes to be able to end

HyperNeutrino

I had a great idea to make a language focusing on matrices and then I realized that MATL exists about 1 second later lol

Step Hen

@MagicOctopusUrn already done

DJMcMayhem

@MagicOctopusUrn .oO(I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COUNTS OF V IS, BUT THIS GUY IS YELLING SO I AGREE WITH HIM)

HyperNeutrino

All the good ideas are already taken by people who actually know how to make languages :(

Step Hen

20:25

@MagicOctopusUrn they checked to see if Jon Skeet only repcapped for the rest of time, would anyone catch up to him in bounties and accepted answers

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino Thanks!

totallyhuman

it seems there are no original specific topic languages left

Step Hen

Hey, Explode is pretty original, and I made it yesterday

totallyhuman

but if I want to make a language, I want to make it specific topic ;-;

HyperNeutrino

There's Charcoal for ASCII, MATL for matrices, cQuents and Oasis for sequences

Step Hen

20:26

it doesn't work, but that's beside the point

totallyhuman

intrnt for internets

hey wait

list manipulation

DJMcMayhem

@MagicOctopusUrn It is. It's used to select text. For example, V will select the whole line, and ~ will toggle the case of every selected character: Try it online!

totallyhuman

:o

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen the idea is original but the specific topic (if it has one) isn't unique I think

totallyhuman

is that done?

HyperNeutrino

20:27

@totallyhuman yes

DJMcMayhem

So there's V (select by lines), v (select by character) and <C-v> (select a block of text)

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino plus no one uses your language unless it's really really good, even though SOGL is good at KC only dzaima uses it

HyperNeutrino

true

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino maybe not, but I'm pretty sure it is

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino which?

DJMcMayhem

20:27

Although <C-v> has other uses too (insert by ASCII value is the notable one)

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman Well actually not really, since I started work on it but never finished it: github.com/alexander-liao/array-golfing-language

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino that doesn't count then

totallyhuman

gosh darn it

HyperNeutrino

ok :P then maybe not done yet

Magic Octopus Urn

@DJMcMayhem I'm trying to think of what V does in other languages... 05AB1E it's just the secondary register which nobody uses and the "eval()" function.

totallyhuman

20:28

I don't want to steal another one of your ideas :P

Step Hen

you know maybe we need to spend some time, stop making languages, and learn some of them

totallyhuman

never

HyperNeutrino

It's fine if you do :P I never completed work on it. I don't mind if you take everything I have so far and keep working on it :P

DJMcMayhem

@MagicOctopusUrn In 05AB1E, V should be eval as V code. :P

Mr. Xcoder

Is 05AB1E read as OSABIE or as zero-five-A-B-one-E or as Usable?

DJMcMayhem

20:29

@Mr.Xcoder Yes

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder Unusable

Mr. Xcoder

@DJMcMayhem Yes?

DJMcMayhem

Yes.

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder yes == all of the above

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen By making languages you get to understand the structure behind languages. Unless you're me. Then you don't learn anything

totallyhuman

20:29

ok so let's see the data type to language mapping

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen No yes == at least one of the above

Mr. Xcoder

@DJMcMayhem "YES" as in "how you chose to pronounce it"?

totallyhuman

strings -> 05ab1e, charcoal, sogl

DJMcMayhem

And V is pronounced Və

totallyhuman

matrices -> matl

Step Hen

20:30

@HyperNeutrino what I mean is there are so many golfing esolangs that we don't need a ton more :P

Mr. Xcoder

built-ins -> mathematica

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen True :P

Step Hen

Like, how many 2D pattern matching languages are there xD

totallyhuman

numbers -> jelly, most every golflang

DJMcMayhem

@totallyhuman ;_;

HyperNeutrino

20:30

@StepHen Snails

Step Hen

because no one knows how to use half the ones that exist

Mr. Xcoder

obscure -> java

totallyhuman

@DJMcMayhem oh shoot sorry :P

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino there's like 4 or 5

HyperNeutrino

Yeah.

Mr. Xcoder

20:31

bad -> CJam

HyperNeutrino

ಠ_ಠ

totallyhuman

it's just I don't often think of editors in general when i'm thinking of langs :P

DJMcMayhem

@totallyhuman It's OK. Truthy be told, V isn't always that great at strings

HyperNeutrino

banned -> MetaGS

Business Cat

@Mr.Xcoder ಠ_ಠ

totallyhuman

20:31

but yes vim and v

Step Hen

if you wander around high rep user's githubs every other person will have a 2d pattern lang sitting around

totallyhuman

Booleans -> boolfuck

HyperNeutrino

lol

totallyhuman

:P

Mr. Xcoder

Sorry to upset y'all java and golflang java coders :{

totallyhuman

20:31

hmm what else

Business Cat

???? -> Gaia

HyperNeutrino

bowling -> every language I make ;_;

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat bussiness_language?

Business Cat

Idea: esolang about bowling

Step Hen

@BusinessCat the problem is no one knows Gaia except you, because everyone's busy making their own language :P

@BusinessCat I just made a lang that'll be really good at bowling, if anyone figures out how to use it

Mr. Xcoder

20:32

?…? -> Cthulhu

Step Hen

If it's even a lang

HyperNeutrino

All languages that aren't very mainstream programming languages (Jelly, etc) are pretty much ignored now because we're making like 1 a day and never using any of them

Business Cat

@StepHen No, I meant the source code and/or memory is modelled after bowling

totallyhuman

that's pretty interesting

HyperNeutrino

anyway brb in a bit

totallyhuman

20:33

bye

what other data types are there

Business Cat

@StepHen OK when I'm done I will try to learn one of these languages

totallyhuman

strings, numbers, lists, Booleans...

agh stop capitalizing Boolean windows

Business Cat

Treating strings as numbers for no good reason -> PHP

DJMcMayhem

Brachylog for booleans.

@BusinessCat And JS

Business Cat

PHP is a little worse for that than JS but yes

Step Hen

20:35

@totallyhuman higher level langs have a lot of other datatypes

Mr. Xcoder

Having borked, rigid syntax -> Swift

Step Hen

that are builtin classes

@totallyhuman functions are a "datatype" in JS and Python

totallyhuman

you know what I mean :P

Business Cat

Some cool golfing features and short syntax but then some randomly long Java-style property/method names -> JS

Step Hen

there's HashMaps in Java

totallyhuman

20:36

also the more correct technical term is "objects" :P

@StepHen hmm dictionaries

not particularly useful for golfing though

Step Hen

and then sets

totallyhuman

i'd lump sets with lists

Business Cat

Jelly is very good at list stuff not just numbers

Step Hen

@totallyhuman chars

totallyhuman

@StepHen /o_o

Step Hen

20:38

@totallyhuman here, do this: trees

totallyhuman

aha found the correct link in there

Abstract data type

In computer science, an abstract data type (ADT) is a mathematical model for data types, where a data type is defined by its behavior (semantics) from the point of view of a user of the data, specifically in terms of possible values, possible operations on data of this type, and the behavior of these operations. This contrasts with data structures, which are concrete representations of data, and are the point of view of an implementer, not a user. Formally, an ADT may be defined as a "class of objects whose logical behavior is defined by a set of values and a set of operations"; this is analogous...

:P

aaand all of them are meh

Step Hen

Make a Queue-based programming language, as opposed to Stack-based

Business Cat

Brain-Fleue?

totallyhuman

hmm

Business Cat

I should make a heap-based language

totallyhuman

20:41

queues seem fairly bad for golfing tbh

Conor O'Brien

they've been done before

Step Hen

@ConorO'Brien nothing new under the sun

Conor O'Brien

indeed

totallyhuman

maybe we should look in the shadows

move your shadows guys

Step Hen

@totallyhuman in the land of mordor, where the shadows lie

Conor O'Brien

20:43

under the sun, not the sunlight :P

totallyhuman

> quick people gib all the data types you can think of
    > List<Object>
    > List<List<Object>>
    > List<List<List<Object>>>

Step Hen

@totallyhuman List<Object<List>>

HyperNeutrino

List<Map<Set<Object>,List<Map<Object,Set<List<Object>>>>>>

It's even valid

ATaco

Oh look, Java.

totallyhuman

;-; there are no ideas

;-; all has been forsaken

Step Hen

20:48

@HyperNeutrino it's valid BF too - quick, Java BF polyglot

HyperNeutrino

ಠ_ಠ

totallyhuman

English, 2 bytes: no

HyperNeutrino

I'm going to try to throw together the generic framework for the sequence language in half an hour :P this is not going to work

someone give me a good name for a language focusing on recursion (so like fibonacci)

totallyhuman

all sets ∈ itself: a golfing language oriented towards golflang manipulation

ATaco

Lambda Calculus

Step Hen

20:51

Why the heck do I code like I do

sometimes

totallyhuman

heck if I know

Step Hen

Like, I do the stupidest stuff and I'm like "why doesn't this just work"

totallyhuman

:P

@StepHen have you tried rubber duck

Magic Octopus Urn

If we gave all langauges on TIO a flag to run with, would TIO then become a valid language? Like: TIO, 7 bytes: tio -05ab1e "A"

totallyhuman

yes

wait no

relying on internet

:P

Step Hen

20:52

@MagicOctopusUrn but then dennis would have extra work whenever you added a new lang

Magic Octopus Urn

Also make it locally distributable.

totallyhuman

rubber duck always works

Step Hen

@MagicOctopusUrn just host TIO offline, no biggie

Magic Octopus Urn

Ahaha RIP.

totallyhuman

i'm almost convinced I should carry a rubber duck for math tests

HyperNeutrino

20:53

@StepHen Try it online except offline :P

Magic Octopus Urn

Why?

Mr. Xcoder

Someone other than Adm uses Powershell

HyperNeutrino

TIO, 10000000 bytes: tio -tio "tio -tio \"tio -tio ...\""

totallyhuman

"ok so I proved that P = P, so how can I prove P = NP"

@Mr.Xcoder D: D: D:

Step Hen

you know, we should be able to bounty challenges - "this was a really good challenge"

HyperNeutrino

20:54

Do bounties exist on meta?

totallyhuman

yes

Magic Octopus Urn

Good lord.

How do you do quines like that

ATaco

RProgN2 has a 3 byte quine but I've no idea how to do the TIO quine.

HyperNeutrino

I see no bounty button.

New Sandboxed Posts

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Reverse map inputted ASCII characters code-golf ascii-art printable-ascii In Map inputted ASCII characters, I asked you to .. map inputted ASCII characters .. in realtime. This time, you will do the opposite. This challenge is inspired by the fact that my name, MD XF, contains the only four let...

Magic Octopus Urn

20:55

My 3 quine answers were half plug-n-chug half educated guessing.

totallyhuman

trichoplax and Justin are awarding bounties for solving the popularity contest

porblem

Step Hen

@ATaco you have to base64 encode your source among other things

ATaco

I know that much, alas I can't GZIP it.

totallyhuman

> uint_0
> uint_4
> uint_8
> uint_16
> uint_32
> uint_64
> uint_128

ATaco

> uint_0

totallyhuman

20:56

>.>

HyperNeutrino

Final Feedback?

2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Proper army (Canadian Air Cadet) squadron formation code-golf ascii-art (Note: I'm not in the army so feel free to correct me if my formation is wrong, but I will not be changing the question. I will change any terminology mistakes though, because I'm trying to avoid air-cadet-specific wording c...

Step Hen

@ATaco like binary but better

totallyhuman

> unsigned wumpus

what does that even mean

HyperNeutrino

I should wait until tomorrow to post so I don't lose rep to the cap (except I might lose rep anyway... D:)

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino you worry too much about rep

HyperNeutrino

20:59

:P I mean it's just a matter of posting today or tomorrow

So if I don't have to lose rep why bother ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Step Hen

"tomorrow" is almost here I think

totallyhuman

especially for challenges

HyperNeutrino

I mean I posted like 3 OEIS challenge answers on a day where I capped before I even woke up and lost about 275 rep

totallyhuman

might as well wait till tomorrow

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