The Nineteenth Byte

You

00:02

I am so tempted to write A000363 in my language by redefining every single mathematical operation involved since this sequence is a simple equation.

Step Hen

@You I think that would be considered writing an interpreter to solve the challenge :P

You

@StepHen But it would be an interpreter in my language redefining my language. :P

Step Hen

@You ooohhhhh then I don't see why not

You

@StepHen But now my computer's dying and I can't charge it. D:

Bye all!

Destructible Lemon

00:18

I think I have found a game changer in that infinite chain challenge

totallyhuman

cool :thumbsup:

Step Hen

@DestructibleLemon what's that

Destructible Lemon

0

A: Make an infinite chain

Python, 18 bytes lambda x:x-1+x%2*4 this one uses a weave like pattern 2 -> 1 -> 4 -> 3 -> 6 -> 5 explanation: lambda x: # function with argument x x # given argument -1 # subtract one for going down by one on even numbers + # ...

I outgolfed dennis

also you

Step Hen

Mine wasn't golfy

I don't think that's valid - how do you get from 1 to 1000?

I thought of that one earlier too I think

Destructible Lemon

@StepHen it uses a constant weavelike pattern, starting at 2

Step Hen

00:27

@DestructibleLemon 1 swaps with 2, 3 swaps with 4, etc. right?

Destructible Lemon

no

it has a weave.

look at the chain

if it is odd, add 3

if it is even, subtract 1

Step Hen

what maps to 2, sorry

Destructible Lemon

2

wait, I think I might be able to golf this

Step Hen

@DestructibleLemon if nothing maps to 2 it's invalid

Destructible Lemon

@StepHen oh hmm

dangit

Step Hen

00:30

@DestructibleLemon yeah :/ I had a similar idea earlier too

Destructible Lemon

yeah I guess it needs to be a double sided infinity

Step Hen

I think the only way for it to work is for the chain to decrease from infinity, reverse at 1, and then increase back towards infinity

yeah that

Destructible Lemon

sad

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino I'm a bit of an idiot, I thought that if I made a new object and did the same thing to it, it would have a different result

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen What were you trying to do?

Step Hen

00:34

@HyperNeutrino Visit a node multiple times with a newly created visitor each time and have different results

(as opposed to using the same visitor across the visits, which is what I did to fix it)

HyperNeutrino

lol

well, if the node stores state, then it might work better

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Step Hen

In other news, my OEIS builtin scheme works

HyperNeutrino

yay \o/

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino I moved that info to the visitor so I could have flexible indicing

Because no one like 1-based indexing

HyperNeutrino

Ah ok

hey we're on 4 pages in the OEIS challenge

Step Hen

00:36

this is Fib: "A000045": lambda inter, node: get_OEIS(inter, node.parameters, "=0,1:z+y")

totallyhuman

o0 >75 already?

HyperNeutrino

> Number of positive integers <= 2^n of form x^2 + 6 y^2.

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino another one

HyperNeutrino

ಠ_ಠ

@StepHen ooo cool

also I'm working on my sequence language and I'm not sure how to do this >.< I'm making it tacit-like just like Jelly but I don't know how to do it and looking at Dennis's source code is cheating xD

Step Hen

And then you call it with O45A<parameters>)

Destructible Lemon

00:37

@HyperNeutrino what is tacit

Step Hen

@DestructibleLemon I think it's you don't make function calls, functions get called based on the presence/absence of input

HyperNeutrino

pointfree; i.e. everything is a function and the arguments just go through the functions in a specific order

@StepHen yeah something like that

Step Hen

and they (can) do different things with different input lengths and data types

HyperNeutrino

so like rather than saying print(increment(input())) you'd just put increment or whatever the function is (in Jelly it's a one-byter that I'm too lazy to find)

Step Hen

cQuents is decidedly not tacit, at least in its math

totallyhuman

00:38

`

HyperNeutrino

yeah that I think

thanks

totallyhuman

what happens if a starred message is deleted

aw :c

HyperNeutrino

I've deleted a starred message several times xD

BlackCap

@HyperNeutrino Prove it

:O

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino uh in Python can you reference the name of the key in a dictionary in the definition of the term? Like { "key": <key> }

totallyhuman

00:41

lol

HyperNeutrino

I mean, if you wanted me to prove it, you should've pinged me in the sandbox...

BlackCap

There is a sandbox chat?

I didn't relize

Step Hen

@BlackCap And a trash too

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen what do you mean; can you give me a more specific example?

totallyhuman

@StepHen ermm you mean like thingy = {"key": thingy['key']}?

Step Hen

00:42

@totallyhuman yes

HyperNeutrino

no because thingy is not defined at that time

unless it is in which case it does work

Step Hen

actually wait I'm an idiot, I don't even need a dictionary if I'm doing it that way

brb

or at least not in the same way

HyperNeutrino

so like a={'b':'c'};a={'d':a['b']}; then a=={'d':'c'} anyway gtg for a bit o/

Step Hen

nvm I do

Downgoat

@LegionMammal978 @betseg are you guys going to do further contribute to VSL?

Step Hen

00:50

What does TIO do to prevent programs from using inordinate amounts of memory?

ASCII-only

@StepHen Nothing?

@HyperNeutrino uh no you have to either do a['d'] = a.b or use a.update({newdict})

@StepHen {key: key for key in keys} :P

Step Hen

I think I figured out a better, more clear way

ASCII-only

@StepHen is it just return argument or whatever

HyperNeutrino

@ASCII-only oh whoops xD

Step Hen

@ASCII-only Well I'm trying to have a dict of OEIS identifiers, and in the lambdas call another dict that holds them, like "A000045": lambda inter, node: get_OEIS(inter, node.parameters, OEIS["A000045")

HyperNeutrino

00:53

good job on brackets

Step Hen

but have the second A... be a reference back

but I found a better way by just doing another for loop + dict comprehension (ingenious things aren't they)

HyperNeutrino

hey I'm 300 rep away from being able to see chat flags lol

ASCII-only

@StepHen Wait are you tring to do an OEIS language

Step Hen

@ASCII-only No, just trying to make a semi-decent library of what programs in my lang make OEIS sequences inside the lang

so that when I need to use a complicated sequence, I already have the code in my lang inside the interpreter and it's golfier

ASCII-only

@StepHen so wth do you need recursive lookup for

Step Hen

00:56

@ASCII-only ?

ASCII-only

@StepHen it's golfier how

Step Hen

oh, that? I'm was trying to do something stupid

HyperNeutrino

hey I made an addition program

ASCII-only

@StepHen you shouldn't be doing recursive anything in the first place (also what does get_OEIS do exactly)

Step Hen

@ASCII-only interpreter takes O45A$ and says "oh, that's an OEIS sequence, lemme fetch A000045 and gets its code. It's code is #0,1:z+y, lemme run that"

@ASCII-only It's OK, I figured out a much better way to do what I was trying to do incorrectly

ASCII-only

00:58

@StepHen so basically an OEIS language

also not golfy enough 0/10

Step Hen

@ASCII-only no, OEIS builtins that execute my lang's code

ASCII-only

@StepHen >_> basically a superset of an OEIS language

Step Hen

@ASCII-only Well the OEIS part was an afterthought

ASCII-only

@StepHen I'm still not entirely sure much better than that is good enough though...

Step Hen

so not in my mind at least

Lemme actually get it coded then stick it in chat

BlackCap

01:00

@StepHen Are you going to implement 250k OEIS answers?

Step Hen

@BlackCap uh I dunno

I don't think so

ASCII-only

@BlackCap yes :P

Step Hen

if I have a lot of free time I'll make a dent though, on the more useful ones

ASCII-only

brb this is a good idea i should do it in charcoal even though it's an ascii art language :P

BlackCap

We have had a community effort to do so for 2 days now, and we're at 74..

ASCII-only

01:02

@BlackCap O_o

Step Hen

builtins.update({sequence: lambda inter, node, sequence=sequence: get_OEIS(inter, node.parameters, OEIS[sequence]) for sequence in OEIS})

HyperNeutrino

that's because the super math geniuses had to wait for an hour lol

and we were running out of languages

Step Hen

@ASCII-only is that better?

ASCII-only

@StepHen why "=0,1:z+y"

@StepHen 0/10 too many builtins

BlackCap

I am sure we'd be past the 100k mark if we didn't have that 1 hour cooldown

ASCII-only

01:03

@BlackCap cooldown?

HyperNeutrino

lol not quite... I hope... lol

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino wait it had to be a different language for each one?

Step Hen

@ASCII-only ya

@ASCII-only there fixed, it'll fetch something like that though

ASCII-only

use charcoal pls

HyperNeutrino

will try but it's an ascii art ~~challenge~~ language xD

Step Hen

01:03

@ASCII-only Erik the Outgolfer wasted Jelly for 2,0,0,0,0,... 0.o

ASCII-only

@StepHen what does get_OEIS do

BlackCap

@ASCII-only You have to wait 1 hour between posting answers on the OEIS question

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen ikr grr

ASCII-only

@BlackCap oh well not for the question

HyperNeutrino

maybe I shouldn't've used Positron so early because at least it can execute arbitrary Python code (I think)

ASCII-only

01:04

@HyperNeutrino wait what

HyperNeutrino

*language

im dum

Step Hen

@ASCII-only runs the cQuents program associated with the sequence

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino Pyth can too IIRC (as well as some others)

HyperNeutrino

Jelly can too

Step Hen

I know it wastes a bunch of memory

ASCII-only

01:05

@StepHen wth it runs the program given the program?

HyperNeutrino

IIRC, many golfing languages that are written in Python can execute arbitrary Python code

Step Hen

def get_OEIS(origin_interpreter, parameters, cq_source):
    tree = get_tree(cq_source)[0]
    tester = Tester()
    tester.visit(tree)
    interpreter = HelperInterpreter(tree, tester.max_input)
    next_parameters = [get_input_item_tree(origin_interpreter.visit(parameter)) for parameter in parameters]
    return interpreter.interpret(next_parameters)

ASCII-only

D: charcoal can't

it can run arbitrary python functions though lol

HyperNeutrino

lol

ASCII-only

also really charcoal has a decent amount of math builtins i use it for math challenges sometimes

HyperNeutrino

01:07

ooo

my new sequence language might become functional sometime in the next month or so lol

ASCII-only

codegolf.stackexchange.com/…

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino ha well I implemented cross sequence stuff

HyperNeutrino

I need to find the golfiest way to tacitally chain atoms xD

@ASCII-only ooo cool

@StepHen uh what xD

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino I guess it isn't very golfy for those though :(

HyperNeutrino

yeah unfortunately :( but I mean, it's OP at most ASCII-art challenges lol

also I might want to use it because we're running out of languages :P

Step Hen

01:09

This program gets the sum of 1..input: ;$

This program gets the sum of 1..(the sum of 1..input): ;\1$\n;$

aka the first line calls the second line

HyperNeutrino

ah ok

Step Hen

at some point I need to figure out how to get sequences on depending, building a dict containing all valid sequences is NOT a way for this to scale

HyperNeutrino

I might just make it stack-based lol

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino #Oasis #ripoff

HyperNeutrino

since it's mostly just monadic links, it might not be too much less golfy than Jelly

@StepHen ಠ_ಠ

oasis is a bit restricted though according to adnan

Step Hen

01:15

@HyperNeutrino does that mean he hasn't implemented everything, or no?

HyperNeutrino

you can only create niladic and monadic code

ASCII-only

finally figures out how to sum range in charcoal

HyperNeutrino

nice

ASCII-only

ＩＵＰsum⟦…·⁰Ｎ⟧ so long :(

HyperNeutrino

rip :(

python: lambda x:x*(x+1)/2

Step Hen

01:16

finally figures out how to sum range in charcoal -> only ASCII in code

HyperNeutrino

also why does a language made by ascii-only have non-ascii characters

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino do it for the golf

HyperNeutrino

opls just make the codepage encode in half-bytes so you have 16 ascii characters and each two characters is a byte

ASCII-only

oh yeah i can remove the brackets ＩＵＰsum…·⁰Ｎ

Downgoat

> sum

:O charcoal has multichar identifier

wait doesn't charcoal have like verbose mode

ASCII-only

01:20

@Downgoat yes

@Downgoat only for python functions

Downgoat

@ASCII-only feature-request charcoal golf mode to verbose mode

ASCII-only

@Downgoat wait :| why

not hard (i just need 1 new file and like maybe 20 more lines max) but why

Downgoat

so ascii-only people can read :P

ASCII-only

@Downgoat this is what ast is for

Downgoat

how to see ast

....................................................................../opt/charcoal/wolfram.py:1231: DeprecationWarning: generator 'take' raised StopIteration
  item.group()
/opt/charcoal/wolfram.py:1250: DeprecationWarning: generator 'take' raised StopIteration
  item.group()
/opt/charcoal/wolfram.py:1239: DeprecationWarning: generator 'take' raised StopIteration
  item.group()
/opt/charcoal/wolfram.py:1364: DeprecationWarning: generator 'take' raised StopIteration
  (item.start() + 1, item.end())

omy what did break

Step Hen

01:23

@Downgoat download the interpreter and hope he implemented __repr__?

ASCII-only

@Downgoat ono stopiteration is bork

LegionMammal978

@Downgoat idk, my brain is spaghetti rn

ASCII-only

@StepHen what no just use -a (astify)

Downgoat

@StepHen well that is inside source. I shouldn't need to modify source to read charcoal program

@ASCII-only oh ok thanks

:O so readable

ASCII-only

@Downgoat or --astify :P

HyperNeutrino

01:25

lol when you copy your tokenizer from one language to another xD

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino why not

wait don't you use a regex tokenizer? shame

HyperNeutrino

not the current one

that's my positron tokenizer, which I'm not using elsewhere :P

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Secret Message Part 3, Variable Caeser Cipher code-golf string Note that this is part 3 of a series. Part 1 is here and part 2 is here (will add link after posting part 2, for now it's here). A caeser cipher is a cipher that replaces every letter with a letter a certain number of letters awa...

Step Hen

My current lexer/parser/interpreter set was adapted from a Python tutorial into Java, then into JavaScript, then into Python

Downgoat

@HyperNeutrino to be fair I could probably use G++ tokenizer for JS and JS tokenizer for VSL

Step Hen

01:26

(as I learned those languages)

HyperNeutrino

I have a generator-like tokenizer for Anyfix, a part-regex part-hardcoded tokenizer for Positron, a regex tokenizer for Paintbrush, and a mostly hardcoded tokenizer for Unnamed-List-Language and Unnamed-Sequence-Language.

@Downgoat wait what is VSL

ASCII-only

i have fixed this terrible verbosity, it will be Ｉ▷m…·Ｎ in the next update

Step Hen

@ASCII-only get ready, Charcoal math coming in August 2017

Downgoat

@HyperNeutrino they are Valuable Sea Lions

HyperNeutrino

._.

totallyhuman

01:29

.-.

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino github.com/vsl-lang/VSL

HyperNeutrino

> Vaccinated Seals' Laughs

ASCII-only

exactly

Step Hen

Bitwise operators are going to be 2 char functions in cQuents, because they are second class citizens

ASCII-only

@StepHen D: how could you

HyperNeutrino

01:30

@StepHen so you have a social hierarchy in cQuents???

ASCII-only

even Charcoal makes them 1 char

Step Hen

@ASCII-only well I don't have 256 to play with, and I have yet to see a common sequence that uses them

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ

HyperNeutrino

oeis.org/search?q=bitwise&language=english&go=Search

ASCII-only

@StepHen ok good point

Downgoat

01:31

@StepHen cQuents? more like cHatesBinary :P

ikr sick burn

Step Hen

as in C Hates Binary?

totallyhuman

no c is in love with binary

Downgoat

no as in "see, (implicit) it hates binary" :P

HyperNeutrino

English has implicit arguments? :o

Downgoat

yes

HyperNeutrino

01:32

Since when did English become a golfing language?

Step Hen

@Downgoat when you get an OEBIS (Online Encyclopedia of Binary Integer Sequences) let me know

totallyhuman

since the dawn

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino Since Dennis learned English

Downgoat

@HyperNeutrino ._. implicit =/= implicit arguments =/= golfing language

totallyhuman

@totallyhuman *snc d don

HyperNeutrino

01:33

lol

Hey I just realized why a lot of PPCG'ers are teenagers

Step Hen

We have free time?

HyperNeutrino

We golf our English all the time :P

@StepHen no we don't, even if we want to believe we do :P

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino Well I definitely did a couple months ago, when I was still doing school

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen wat ._. it's like the other way around for me

totallyhuman

hey anybody use type annotations in python?

Step Hen

01:35

@HyperNeutrino I did less than 40 hours of school a week and now I'm working 40 hours a week

HyperNeutrino

oh true. but what about homework ._.

Step Hen

Plus driving to work and whatnot

~~I'm~~ I was homeschooled, I spent most of my time on homework

HyperNeutrino

oh that would make more sense :P

musicman523

Anyone willing to give feedback on this sandbox post before I add test cases and post it?

Step Hen

No dumb classes to sit through, just get work done

(I say as I go to college)

totallyhuman

01:36

@musicman523 yes, add test cases

HyperNeutrino

like if you are in grade school then you spend like too much time learning stupid pointless things xD

musicman523

@totallyhuman I definitely will, but some of the feedback I am looking for changes the output significantly and I'd rather not write them twice

HyperNeutrino

You've had it in the sandbox for 3 hours ಠ_ಠ

Step Hen

@musicman523 make one test case so we can at least see what's going on

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ

that's shorter than my question

Step Hen

01:37

CMC: Crack my cipher

musicman523

@StepHen okie

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen no

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino xD

totallyhuman

speaking of which, where in the world is NFP

HyperNeutrino

what is a chat handle anyway

@totallyhuman wat is NFP

isn't it NFQ

Downgoat

01:37

@musicman523 tbh would downvote because it's 1) choose language with best compress algorithm 2) compress array 3) make program num => decompress(array)[num]

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino idk watever

HyperNeutrino

ok xD

totallyhuman

NFP, NFQ; tomato, tomato

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman nice try doing that in chat xD

Step Hen

@totallyhuman You mean tomato, tornato?

musicman523

01:38

@Downgoat Honestly I think it can be done better than that. It did get downvoted though so I assume whoever did felt the same way

totallyhuman

0/10 self-advertising

HyperNeutrino

k

totallyhuman

:P i wasn't serious

Step Hen

@ASCII-only This is basically what I'm trying to do: build a library of cQuents programs to run as OEIS builtins

HyperNeutrino

Tomato Tornado?

totallyhuman

01:40

erm

ASCII-only

@StepHen ... well if you only have a substitution cipher cracker that doesn't exactly make you an expert :P

Step Hen

@ASCII-only So, I kept up the game - better than just admitting I was lying

ASCII-only

@StepHen imo you should write in python so not only is it easier + faster to run but also other people can then use it (e.g. me :P)

Step Hen

@ASCII-only :P but cQuents is golfier

and a heck of a lot slower

ASCII-only

@StepHen well nobody cares about the backend :P but they would care about performance

Step Hen

01:43

Lemme get this onto TIO so I can show you what I've been talking about

ASCII-only

> What chat handle did Robert use?

@StepHen i don't see how writing the sequence calculation function in python would make it any different

Step Hen

@ASCII-only Check back on it when it's all solved, it'll make sense I promise

@ASCII-only No I mean with my weird backslash stuff earlier

HyperNeutrino

@StepHen that's like saying "it'll be solvable once it's solved"

xD

what is a chat handle

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino No, that mean that it'll make sense why I used that question when it's solved

@HyperNeutrino The thing we use as our name

HyperNeutrino

ah ok

@StepHen so like "HyperNeutrino" for me?

totallyhuman

01:46

yes

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino In the online world, a handle is another word for a username

HyperNeutrino

oh xD I can't english btw

then why don't you say username xD

Step Hen

@HyperNeutrino Can you French, or wrong part of Canada?

HyperNeutrino

If you stalk my profile like MD XF, then you'd know that I live in Ontario :P My native language is Mandarin/English; English only for written. There are some apparently common terms that I don't know though :P

Downgoat

@HyperNeutrino like when you want to carry TNB on the go you attach the webpage to a chat handle so you can carry TNB wherever you go

Step Hen

01:48

@HyperNeutrino Written Mandarin is the biggest pain, my parents both nominally know it

totallyhuman

if cquents is supposed to be for golfing

why do you need to pad the sequence number with zeroes

Step Hen

@totallyhuman You don't, that's the backend part

totallyhuman

ah ok

Step Hen

Front end is O45A for Fib (A000045)

I gotta drop ~$150 into a college calc textbook :(

Business Cat

I've done 3 years of university and used maybe 2 of the textbooks that were "required"

Although the math ones are pretty worthwhile for practice

Step Hen

01:53

Eh if I don't use them I can just resell them for 20% net loss (I hope)

Thankfully the only big textbook for my first semester is the calc one

ASCII-only

@StepHen hmm it looks like 5 substitution ciphers

Step Hen

@ASCII-only Then crack it :P although no promises

Downgoat

@StepHen o already tried this doesn't work. You can only use OEIS in a language if high-rep user/mod, otherwise cheating and you'll get downvote

Step Hen

@Downgoat ? whatdiya mean, did you use an OEIS library or something?

ASCII-only

can anyone find an online cipher solver by frequency analysis

Downgoat

01:57

i made a tool whose source code is a unicode char. unicode code point of that char corresponds to OEIS number. e.g. - (char code 45) is Fibonacci.

Step Hen

@ASCII-only Robert has one, it's magical and perfect and didn't reveal any results, at least not for a simple substitution cipher

ASCII-only

also hmm what this is cipher is weird

@StepHen yeah but i need one >_>

Step Hen

@Downgoat Did you have to go online for it or no?

Downgoat

@ASCII-only counton.org/explorer/codebreaking/frequency-analysis.php

@StepHen no it's local

ASCII-only

@Downgoat 0/10 doesn't solve

Step Hen

01:59

@ASCII-only sorry

Downgoat

yea but maybe is helpful

ASCII-only

@ASCII-only note to self: need to finish bitwise not, unary range, and oeis for charcoal

disappears poof

musicman523

@StepHen if you can study from a screen you may be able to locate cheaper alternatives, if not then you can probably rent it for around $35 if you don't want to keep it

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