The Nineteenth Byte - 2017-06-17 (page 4 of 5)

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7:00 PM

@Jim and this is the reason

Now, in a more serious note, I don't think it makes any sense for f=u=0.

and I don't know what would happen.

@LeakyNun Just a curiosity of mine, doesn't make any sense

I know.

Only if you would put the object in the lens.

I think if you draw a ray diagram, v=0 would be your conclusion.

There are no relevant rays that go out of the lens.

All rays are vertical, so the image must be at 0.

7:03 PM

@LeakyNun no rays exists, at all

in fact

I said ray diagram.

I didn't say they exist.

Stress on the word "diagram".

Doesn't matter

anyways

Simply Beautiful Art

Lol, hello @LeakyNun

@SimplyBeautifulArt hi

Simply Beautiful Art

So I have this bit of Ruby....

repl.it/Hvr5/70

Its at 101 bytes

And I want to golf it down to 100 bytes

While staying within the rules of this:

94

Q: Largest Number Printable

Before opening this I've done a little search and I've found there is a similar question, but it has been closed because it was ambiguous. I hope this won't. So, your goal is to write a program that prints a number. The bigger is the number, the more points you'll get. But be careful! Code lengt...

code-challenge number restricted-source busy-beaver

7:10 PM

user image

@SimplyBeautifulArt a?b:c has a low precedence.

That should be enough hint.

-1

Q: Find the missing integer (i) , The duplicated integer (j), the length or random integers (n). But only if "i" = "j", just tell me "Huh!?"

Find the missing integer code-golf Given a list of n = 1000 positive integers in a random order, find: "i", "j", "n", if "i" =/= "j" & "j" =/= i. But if "i" = "j" & "j" = "i", tell me "Huh!?" 0. Use my random number generator to create 1000 random numbers. Remove any number "i", insert an...

Simply Beautiful Art

Hm... okay @LeakyNun

@SimplyBeautifulArt repl.it/Hvr5/71

Simply Beautiful Art

@LeakyNun You try running it. Those parenthesis are necessary

I thought it is impossible to run such a code.

Simply Beautiful Art

7:14 PM

Its certainly not impossible to check for syntax errors and the like

I see.

Why are they necessary?

Simply Beautiful Art

Because Ruby is weird and when you use variables in your ternary's, you need parentheses

If you take out the y's and replace them with 1's, you can remove the parentheses.

that's interesting

...ly stupid

Simply Beautiful Art

yup

sorry, I have no idea how to golf it.

7:17 PM

@LeakyNun Are you somewhat passionate about Physics?

Simply Beautiful Art

Thanks man xD

@Mr.Xcoder yes, somewhat.

I am stupid, with my ignorance in networking I believed something that said that it was possible to retrieve the IP address of the person you are chatting with (on whatsapp) using netstat

Unfortunately, I do not have enough enough knowledge to post on the main Physics.SE site :((

If I have questions, shall I ask you here?

@Mr.Xcoder anytime.

7:19 PM

Thanks @LeakyNun :))

@Mr.Xcoder Oh well, that ruins everything... I am pretty sure that my challenge will get the same answer. It's sad, I have already put a lot of efforts in it, and think it would have been funny to read and solve.

So it's a good question. You just don't like how it's formatted? What do you consider unrelated exactly? The last time my question was put on hold for being too vague, and now it's too exact? How does that work? — xyz123 3 mins ago

I have no idea how to respond to this.

@Jim I hate closing questions for such reasons, such as duplicate system errors...

caird coinheringaahing

@MDXF like what?

@LeakyNun Don't respond.

7:23 PM

@Mr.Xcoder I want to respond.

I want to make him less confused.

You have already given your feedback on how it can be improved

but I don't know how.

@cairdcoinheringaahing can you join me in the Language Development room so we don't disrupt the existing conversation?

@LeakyNun Tell this: "I just gave you some feedback and tried helping you improve the challenge"

1 min ago, by Leaky Nun

I want to make him less confused.

7:25 PM

@LeakyNun He/She has to understand that no one will read a challenge that's formatted like that and has such a length...

He/She should put some effort in making it readable

I don't want to sound double standard

Well, start with Welcome to PPCG!... I'm sure that's not really standard :))

Just Kidding

@xyz123 the balance between concision and precision is not always an easy one. — Leaky Nun 6 secs ago

I guess this is how I responed

Do you guys think Jon Skeet will make it to 1M this year?

He already did.

7:29 PM

@Okx Really?

Yeah, it just went up so fast SO's caching system can't keep up.

5

@Okx no, I mean on SO only.

?

I never said anything outside of SO

OOh, I am stunned

So He kinda broke the rep system?

@Mr.Xcoder Yes, I think I will try anyway, and too bad if it is closed. I'll try not to make duplicates with existing challenges even if it's impossible not to have a few duplicates. But I put not too much hope in it now.

7:32 PM

@Jim The problem is that if a CMC of yours is posted in the future stand-alone, they wouldn't know whether to close it or not as a dupe.

Is there any language more powerful than this, yet more unreadable!!!? — xyz123 1 min ago

@LeakyNun I believe it is as follows... Input: a space separated string of shuffled numbers from 1 though to N inclusive where i has been removed and j has been added; j could equal i. Output: If i and j are equal "Huh!?" else j,i,n. — Jonathan Allan 3 mins ago

0

Q: Suspecting cheating at competitions

Once in a while, a new user posts an immaculately-written challenge with test cases formatted like 1 ≤ m ≤ 10000 1 ≤ n ≤ 100 SAMPLE INPUT 10 9 8 SAMPLE OUTPUT 1 Maybe they say they're especially interested in Java code that runs quickly. These make me suspect an attempt to ch...

discussion challenges etiquette

Jonathan Allan has managed to summarize 3 pages of challenge into, you know, 2 sentences.

Another Q about SE Sites: Does anyone know what happened to Brian M. Scott and André Nicolas, the top 2 users on Math.SE? I see they both haven't been around for a while...

7:36 PM

@Okx you're joking right :P

TBH, I wouldn't be surprised if some optimisations were made for Jon Skeet

Newly Featured Questions

50

Q: Golf all the 16 logic gates with 2 inputs and 1 output!

For example, the gate A and B is a logic gate with 2 inputs and 1 output. There are exactly 16 of them, because: each logic gate takes two inputs, which can be truthy or falsey, giving us 4 possible inputs of the 4 possible inputs, each can have an output of truthy and falsey therefore, there ...

code-golf decision-problem logic-gates

lol I thought htis was a new post

... With 50 points

:P

@ConorO'Brien Since it was @LeakyNun 's post, it could have gathered 50 upvotes in 5 minutes.

I know...

7:40 PM

@Mr.Xcoder haha

@Mr.Xcoder hence my deletion

User Appreciation Challenge #3: Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder Oh, I did not think of it that way. Clearly the rule is relevant for that (yet it still depress me).

@Jim Ask a mod before posting it

@Mr.Xcoder Will do that. Thanks for the warning though

user image

getting closer

7:42 PM

@Jim Knowing of that, couldn't let you post it

@betseg I had at most 130

somebody should make a user appreciation challenge for peter taylor

@totallyhuman you shall do that

no u

:P

i was just looking at the 500+ answers on the hello world challenge and wondering... how is it even possible to come up with a language that is unique

Getting frustrated that I cannot answer any more questions on SO, I don't know how JonSkeet does it... The quality of the questions is really low, and most are asking about external frameworks

Cannot the chat be opened in the StackExchange app instead of the browser on mobile ?

7:50 PM

No, it can't

hillo

I am back :D

@Christopher what happened??

CMC: write an app for the chat. The language is free, but that must run on Android and iOS.

@Jim Is this a Code-Mega-Challenge?

@MDXF Ummm well you see. I a may have possibly perhaps tested a few ideas about serial voting and forgot to fix it all and perhaps admitted to it and perhaps pinged dennis to perhaps 11 my messages and may or may not have gotten a week suspension

for voting abuse. Rip me and my sock

I lost 115 rep. I beat the system and came clean

7:53 PM

It it. But with the tag code-golf.

"forgot" to fix it all :P

You were telling me about that right before you got suspended lol

@Mr.Xcoder uhh ok

@Christopher Really, no offense, just joking..

Hope you didn't... Sorry!

Just goes to show, you really can't beat the system ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@MDXF It was actually a accident not fix it

7:55 PM

@Christopher Yes I know, I was joking too haha

You can beat the system as long as you don't tell mods :P

Heh

Simply Beautiful Art

>.>

ಠ_ಠ

4.1, 4.7, 5.5 with 20 min intervals

what next? :O

7:57 PM

When you list version numbers (?) please say what it is

Forgot I had caret reply

Simply Beautiful Art

Wait, does p mean print in Ruby? :O

O.O

No

@SimplyBeautifulArt p x means puts x.inspect

Simply Beautiful Art

Hm... interesting

basically equivalent to print(repr('hi')) if you're familiar with python

Simply Beautiful Art

8:03 PM

Well that's useful

How can a user with 10.3 k rep post such a horrifically basic question? - It's one of the worst I've seen in my life.

But finally got a Q to answer to :))

Simply Beautiful Art

x.x

hey you can also suggest that dict() applied on a tuple of tuples works

Everyone there said that @totallyhuman ... Was worth trying something new.

I'm done! Good night / morning / day!

8:18 PM

2

Q: Am I a Cullen Number?

A Cullen Number is any number that is contained in the sequence generated using the formula: C(n) = (n*2^n)+1. Your Task: Write a program or function that receives an input and outputs a truthy/falsy value based on whether the input is a Cullen Number. Input: A non-negative integer betwe...

code-golf number decision-problem

How difficult is it to convert C to Javascript?

o0

Convert, very. Compile to, not very

8:34 PM

@MDXF not too hard

unless like GUI app

Yeah just Cubically, I feel like it'd be fun to have my own IDE

actually I think I made a 3d rubix cube in before with mostly css, and minimal JS

@WheatWizard I'm working on your challenge btw :)

you can just add a class specifying the rotation

@MDXF The C language? Easy. The C standard library? Difficult.

8:44 PM

@MDXF Anything involving C? - Nearly impossible

I am getting very mixed messages here

@ConorO'Brien C stdlib is pretty simple. C++'s is very complex tho

@MDXF what are you trying to convert

like do you mean the language's IDE?

Cubically

or just the implementation?

Just the implementation

8:48 PM

if you have like a char* interpret(char* code) then you can compile that

you might need clang to generate a .ll file but emscripten.org is what yuo want

Cool, I'll look at that

How would one start writing an esoteric programming language?

@Mr.Xcoder Check out existing ones

@Downgoat No I'm from Washington

My biggest mistake with Decimal was making it with no prior esolang experience

8:51 PM

@MDXF I don't understand a lot out of them :))

@Mr.Xcoder think of a spec, choose your favorite language, write an implementation. Then a CLI, then a web UI (or just ask Dennis to put it on TIO)

@Mr.Xcoder I mean not their implementations or specifics, just how they generally do things

i think the third part is the one they're having trouble with

also try to have a clear idea of what specifically your esolang hopes to be/accomplish, if you go with "be super golfy", I mean good luck beating jelly...

@Downgoat good luck implementing malloc, memmove, memcpy, etc. in JS

8:53 PM

@ConorO'Brien emscriptem uses typed arrays

UInt8Arrays specifically which emulate a bounded space of bytes

@ConorO'Brien Have you seen memcpy/memmove's implementations?

@MDXF nope

but you can use a view so you can easily expand that

@ConorO'Brien They're actually very simple

I'd imagine so

8:54 PM

malloc, however, is... shudder

malloc is very optimize though

Not saying it's inefficient or anything, just a horror to try to understand

Could something like

code=input();arr=[("short name","long name in the language i'm porting it to")];for i in code.split("delimiter"):result+=arr[index(i)]... exec(result)

be called a programming language

Pseudo-code, ignore the syntax

Probably?

depends on the similarities between the languages

i made a brainfuck-python transpiler with that logic

8:56 PM

That's pretty much what all trivial Brainf*ck derivatives are (e.g. Ook, What, Alphuck, etc), and they're generally considered programming languages

I personally think it is easy to port something to python 3/2

Java is too boilerplate

I used to port Java applications to C

Then I discovered PPCG :P

@MDXF Then you are Super Man... I think both Java and C are soul-killing

C is actually terribly easy, since there isn't much to know

@Mr.Xcoder Is that basically Python conflated with Ruby

I used to write small scripts and web apps

8:58 PM

@Mendeleev I don't know Ruby, but Python it is

But then ~~the fire nation attacked~~ I joined PPCG

@Mr.Xcoder C is so simple

@Mr.Xcoder You should learn Ruby, it's pretty cool

Ruby's syntax is wonderful

2

Also, Java and C are not all that different when you look at them

Ruby is easy but not very scalable

9:00 PM

@MDXF It is wonderful (I know the basic syntax of Ruby), but if you are used to the syntax of C-derived languages, it's hard to learn

I strongly dislike Ruby's foreach syntax.

true

@totallyhuman and pylint complained a lot

@Phoenix I strongly dislike foreach syntax period. It's so pointless

mostly 'cause of the use of exec

9:01 PM

@Mr.Xcoder though if you are on PPCG, grasping new syntax is not a common difficulty :P

@MDXF Really.

@Downgoat why is that? - Don't get it...

Iterating over an array or string is like the most common thing ever.

@Phoenix Yup. foreach x in y is equivalent to for (i = 0; x = y[i]; i++)

@Mr.Xcoder we have so many esolangs :P

9:02 PM

I try to forget about foreach in ruby, especially when there is .each

@Phoenix This is why LINQ trumps everything

@Downgoat Oh, yeah..

.each >.<

I mean ruby syntax is not too different compared to other scripting languages

he didn't mean every single language to exist. providing a counterexample isn't terribly constructive >_>

9:02 PM

@mınxomaτ pffft haskell obviously win because lazy

J because array manipulation :D

@ConorO'Brien Yeah true :P

Cheddar because tasty :D

Vote for your favourite delimiter for my future language: a) | b) @ c) . d) ; e) other

Cubically because pain :D

9:03 PM

@Mr.Xcoder delimter between statements? Array items?

delimiter? as in, for statements ?

@MDXF but it's simpler to read?

@totallyhuman True

@Downgoat the former

;

9:04 PM

@MDXF And then, ArrayIndexOutOfBounds Exception

;

. or ; definitely not | or @

Besides, foreach is more convenient.

@Phoenix Nope

;-; is a great delimiter

9:04 PM

Most languages will evaluate variable = othervariable to falsy if othervariable is falsy

@MDXF Oh right, Ruby, forgot.

. logically makes more sense to be the end-of-statement terminator, idk why semicolon took place >_<

@Downgoat Because it's the semicolon

How can you say no to the semicolon?!

;___; becaus nobody use semicolon in normal english

... Because in English it's in the middle of statements

9:05 PM

Exactly, but we use .

english teacher should spend more time teaching about semicolon, it's pretty great

We also use @ but we never really use |

@totallyhuman yeah that's the point

Vote for the for-in syntax: a) fN(lowerBound,upperBound) b) itN(lowerBound,upperBound) c) chose other

I |ove sticking | in random places and seeing if people notice (kinda obvious here but not in monospace fonts)

9:06 PM

Probably because . is much more useful in other senses

@MDXF it's not that hard >.>

@ConorO'Brien yes see edit

in a) it's for N in range() and in b) iterate N over range()

@Downgoat shouldn't that comma be a semicolon?

→ 16 messages moved to trash

Guys

:38191747 :| point in case

9:08 PM

you have been invited to join trash - StackExchange knows me too well :I

trashing stuff just wastes more time for everyone. Conor was right, its fine

s/have been invited to join/are

roasted

Also accurate ;_;

btw ;-; is abomination; we should all use ;_;

@Downgoat s/abomination,/abomination;

9:10 PM

;¯; isn't bad either :|

heh

No, the ;-; looks better

There's also '-' and ._. and .-.

we don't need to get rid of every single thing reminiscent of noise. it was something everyone who is in the chatroom was participating it. We remove noise when it crowds out conversation and is prolonged, not if its momentary and a valid response.

4

@Mendeleev ... better than you

burned

@ConorO'Brien the point of trashing a page-filling sequence of emoticon-only messages is to clean it out, and it goes against point the more we argue about

@Downgoat y so many roasts

9:11 PM

@mınxomaτ also chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/38191747#38191747 was legitimate (or at least not smiley related)

@Phoenix a.each {|i| "do stuff" }?

@MDXF sorry, I had roast mutton the other day, so in the roasting mood 😎

Are you considered a cannibal if you drink goat milk? :P

@MDXF you drink human milk when yuo are baby can I call you cannibal?

There's also for i in 1..100; puts i; end

Simply Beautiful Art

9:13 PM

Hey @MDXF can you golf Ruby?

@SimplyBeautifulArt Not really

@SimplyBeautifulArt I do a bit of Ruby golfing

Simply Beautiful Art

Aw, sads :(

@Mendeleev golfed: 1|>100=>print

Simply Beautiful Art

Yay, not sads :)

9:13 PM

@Downgoat What language is that?

cheddar

Simply Beautiful Art

repl.it/Hvr5/70

def f(a,b=-a,c=a,y=?.ord)a.times{a+=(c>y)?f(a,b,c-y):(b<-y)?f(a,a):(b<y)?a:f(a,b-y)}&&a end;f ?~.ord

(1..100).each{|i|p i}

@Downgoat What does this mean?

module.js:598
  return process.dlopen(module, path._makeLong(filename));
                 ^

Error: The module '/usr/lib/node_modules/cheddar-lang/bindings/primes/build/Release/primes.node'
was compiled against a different Node.js version using
NODE_MODULE_VERSION 51. This version of Node.js requires
NODE_MODULE_VERSION 57. Please try re-compiling or re-installing
the module (for instance, using `npm rebuild` or `npm install`).
    at Object.Module._extensions..node (module.js:598:18)
    at Module.load (module.js:503:32)

Simply Beautiful Art

I need to golf this down by one byte

9:14 PM

@Mendeleev Yes it's bad.

Simply Beautiful Art

Within these rules

wait nvm need to be functionalized

@Phoenix What are you talking about? It's great syntax.

@Downgoat That should be a CMC: print 1, 2, 3, ... 99, 100 with a separator of your choosing between

@Mendeleev two solution 1) get newer node.js version 2) build from source

Chedar only support node 4+

And node 4 is already deprecated

so you should really update

9:15 PM

I have node 8.1.0

wat

@DJMcMayhem 100~>, stacked, 5 bytes

@Mendeleev /usr/lib/node_modules/cheddar-lang/ and then run npm i

V, 7 bytes: Try it online!

(I know it says 11)

@DJMcMayhem Ruby, 9 bytes: p *1..100

9:16 PM

Pyth 4 byte

@Mendeleev wait wat how

Ruby has golf version of all built in???

@Downgoat print/inspected splat of range 1..100

p x == puts x.inspect

@Downgoat Another thing:

path.js:1163
          cwd = process.cwd();
                        ^

Error: ENOENT: no such file or directory, uv_cwd
    at Object.resolve (path.js:1163:25)
    at Function.Module._resolveLookupPaths (module.js:408:17)
    at Function.Module._resolveFilename (module.js:480:22)
    at Function.Module._load (module.js:437:25)
    at Module.require (module.js:513:17)
    at require (internal/module.js:11:18)
    at Object.<anonymous> (/usr/lib/node_modules/cheddar-lang/dist/cli/cheddar:3:13)
    at Module._compile (module.js:569:30)

Jelly, 3 bytes: ³RK

@Mendeleev your computer is borked

everything else works

just cheddar borks

hey that rhymed

not really :P

9:25 PM

"werks" and "boarks"

@Downgoat smiley face, better trash it >_>

There's no problem with faces. We can avoid taking up screen space by hosting polls off site, which also makes the results easier to see.

I'm stuck imagining an authoritative turtle

@trichoplax this message took up about as much screen space as the smiley face poll and I don't see anyone complaining (including me, I think both are fine).

but we need to save that precious screen space :P

9:32 PM

In this case messages were removed at the request of the person who initiated them, so it doesn't seem unreasonable. I'd have moved them myself if I'd been here

I agree it can't be decided precisely based solely on screen space. It's always going to be subjective, but I don't tend to put too much thought into it if someone requests messages be moved (to Trash or elsewhere). It isn't a ban on faces

The nature of chat is that new messages immediately take the place of old ones, so things can only get disruptive if they are prolonged. Screen space is a silly metric. There will always be old and new messages taking up the space.

@trichoplax I request that all my previous CMC's and their responses be moved to trash /s

@HelkaHomba I'm also not going to move messages that involve an unreasonable amount of work :P

@HelkaHomba I tried to phrase it as a recommendation. This wasn't meant to be a no faces rule or a no polls rule.

But from @totallyhuman's message you aren't the only one who interpreted it as authoritative. I guess I need to work on not saying everything in a blue name voice.

@trichoplax you really do say everything with a blue name voice, just sayin' :P

Do I need to make a sock puppet to be able to say anything as a user...?

You could also resign as a mod.

9:42 PM

This is also true

But practically speaking yes.

Ooh, good idea! Yeah, make a sockpuppet, then ban yourself! :D (jk)

So it's make sock puppet, ban myself, then resign as a mod. Wait, let me write this down...

No, ban yourself for using sockpuppets to vote yourself

I just found the worst thing for dyslexia, ever

Just making a sock puppet seems like too much work. Using it to vote as well is right out

9:45 PM

Speaking of socks, can you merge me with mine?

@MDXF The future's bright. Really bright

Not as bright as that Vim screen -_-

@MDXF Done. May take a few minutes to show up in your cache.

@trichoplax Sorta like how its rep is 1M but the StackOverflow caching can't keep up?

Cache overflow

4

9:47 PM

Heh

@trichoplax It's unfair to others if someone can request a recent conversation that they happened to start be trashed. (and I don't see mention of this in the chatiquette)

Hello all I am back

@HelkaHomba I entirely agree. When I say I don't put too much thought into it, I don't mean I do it blindly

← 1 message moved from trash

@trichoplax Which one was that?

Curious to see if it could be done, I moved @HelkaHomba's message back from trash (the one that got caught up in the noise removal)

9:54 PM

@trichoplax I'd still contest that conversations, unless outright spam/inappropriate, should never be trashed by ROs. Chat has a self-message deletion built in, so why should ROs come into play? (Except in rare cases where the time limit is expired and someone accidentally posted a password or something.)

→ 16 messages moved to trash

@Mendeleev ಠ_ಠ

→ Mendeleev moved to Trash

anyway, anyone for the Contact word game? chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/53490/contact

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Jun '1717

The Nineteenth Byte

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