But... why?

that just encourages people to not comment

@Mego eh, just stick around Charcoal :-)

@Downgoat how do you even format with two arguments?

@Mego except that I've hit the repcap 6 godforsaken hours ago

a third of the day had barely passed (UTC day)

Maybe you should stop hitting the repcap so often.

@Phoenix I didn't hit the repcap 2 days ago

I was out that day

@Mego can you give me a working example?

@Mego once you hit the rep cap there's no way back. Any negative changes to the rep will be compensated instantly by the not-yet-counted reps

@Mego oh... for some godforsaken reason it isn't %s

@Mego ...

Seems redundant.

@LeakyNun "%s, %s!" % "Hello" % "World"

@Downgoat not good

@Adám APL jokes :)

@Downgoat and you ignored my other question

hi Downgoat

@LeakyNun var also but I reccomend using function default params to save bytes

@Downgoat alright

@LeakyNun if it did like python though with .format it would be more bytes which I don't want

@Christopher Oh, we've got loads.

@Downgoat I mean, it should be "%s, %s!" % ("Hello", "World")

@Mego I mean it seems redundant in Actually. You can only have 256 builtins, afterall.

@Adám Yes!

@LeakyNun But that's less golfy.

@Phoenix something is impossible with Downgoat's version

Anyone have a tool that compresses code? removes whitespace stuff like that

anyone here know c#?

@Tobi Somewhat

@Tobi I C# but don't C# when I program

@Christopher write one yourself

@Christopher for what language?

@Downgoat Processing.js

Most JS/java minifiers should work

Is the fact that classes embedded within other classes aren't actually embedded the reason why "new class1().class2()" can happen, without needing the keep "class1" alive

nevermind

mego why not?

I've taken a liking to the language. I started with python then JS then moved on to the C family

@Downgoat I don't think %c is working..

i just typed alot and it didnt snd...

@Tobi unless class2 actually has any data. dependent on class1's lifetime it can always return an independent object

and why not c# @mego

@LeakyNun oh, for that just use %s, all the same

Downgoat, i realised the question was stupid and said nvm

@Downgoat not the same...

Oh, you mean like first character of string?

you said you know it but dont use it when u code

@Tobi If class 2 isn't static, then it's able to access nonstatic fields in it's parent class. But you can do new (new class1()).class2(), I think. But if you're using it like that, class2 should be static in the first place.

oh, OK.

yes i know pehonix, I said "nvm"

oh sorry @Mego

┌──┬──┬──┬──┬──┬──┬──┬──┐
│⊢ │⍒ │⍒⍒│⍋⌽│⌽ │⍋ │⍋⍒│⍒⌽│
├──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┤
│⍒ │⍒⍒│⍋⌽│⊢ │⍒⌽│⌽ │⍋ │⍋⍒│
├──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┤
│⍒⍒│⍋⌽│⊢ │⍒ │⍋⍒│⍒⌽│⌽ │⍋ │
├──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┤
│⍋⌽│⊢ │⍒ │⍒⍒│⍋ │⍋⍒│⍒⌽│⌽ │
├──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┤
│⌽ │⍋ │⍋⍒│⍒⌽│⊢ │⍒ │⍒⍒│⍋⌽│
├──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┤
│⍋ │⍋⍒│⍒⌽│⌽ │⍋⌽│⊢ │⍒ │⍒⍒│
├──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┤
│⍋⍒│⍒⌽│⌽ │⍋ │⍒⍒│⍋⌽│⊢ │⍒ │
├──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┤
│⍒⌽│⌽ │⍋ │⍋⍒│⍒ │⍒⍒│⍋⌽│⊢ │
└──┴──┴──┴──┴──┴──┴──┴──┘

APL space battle

What?

@Mego Don't take my puns

ಠ_ಠ

whats cfuzzy a language?

@Mego yeah, not a good idea to leave us hanging with asterisks >_>

@Mego Sorry but my puns are patent pending.

See stars

:O you live in area with such low light pollution you can see stars in 2017?

@Downgoat Every night :P Milky way is super cool

(•◡•)

@Downgoat well, you live in California, so....

@Christopher I mean Milky Way is great because it has goats but sucks because it has sheep...

Could I invent an encoding for my own language where bytes aren't assigned characters directly, but instead use a Huffman tree to get characters? And how would I count that in codegolf? "6 bytes 2 bits"? Round up?

@Mego Who said he licensed them under CC-BY-SA

Oh right

@Mego My puns have been stolen. I slap you to challenge you to a duel

:37251655 why'd you remove it it was funny

@Mego Right, but I could use the rounded-up number, right? Even if it's 20 characters, I could have it be 7 bytes.

ye

@Mego Alright then. Next language goal set

@Mego solution: (byte >>> 16) & 0xFFFF)

@Phoenix No onebox :P

Come on. Ez 100 rep right there

Make that 110+ (upvote by me)

Why is a cat program called cat?

@Mego why concatenate?

more like replicate

@Christopher until when?

@Mego :o

@L3viathan My bounty? 2 days

cat /dev/stdin /dev/stdin is weird

I really can't figure out what it's doing

CMC: after every instance of var in the input text put a single space after var

@Christopher just do s/var ?/var /g in sed

Why not just s/var/var /g?

@LeakyNun Dogs were much harder train :P

@Phoenix depends on what he wants

I'm taking it from context, that he's really asking for help

@LeakyNun in that case it might be better to use * in case there is multiple space

I think he's using a tool to automatically remove whitespace, so there won't be any existing spaces after vars.

And my way is golfier

s/var/$0 /g is more so

Trying to compress variable names :P

Might be \0

And what I was doing removed all whitespace :P

@Downgoat let a="%s%s%s", b="0", c="%s", and d="0". Then a%(b,c,d) would give you "0%s0" while a%b%c%d would give you "00%s"...

and it's impossible to get the first one

not everything is about golfiness... it's a tuple for a reason

But that's not what it does

@LeakyNun you can use Console.sprintf might be IO.sprintf depending on version for that behavior but it's really long

@Downgoat ok thanks

@Christopher php, 41 bytes <?=preg_replace('/var/','var ',$argv[1]);

@Phoenix What's weird about it? It simply copy stdin to stdout

@Mego No wait you're right I was confused because when I press enter it copies immediatly.

@Mayube Nice

@Downgoat and the first quine in Cheddar is done

76 bytes: let q='"';let s="let q='%s';let s=%s;print(s%q%(q+s+q))";print(s%q%(q+s+q))\n

cat /dev/stdin /dev/stdout seems to do the same thing as cat /dev/stdin /dev/stdin for some reason

@LeakyNun codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/96580/40695 other Quine in cheddar for reference

@Downgoat oops, I can't edit the word "first" out

that's nice

does it have for/while loops?

Typical C like for loop exist

while loop does not

Because reasons

CMC: given the alphabet {a,b,c,d}, define a context-free grammar for the language of words that contain exactly three unique symbols. For example, "abc" and "dcccaca" are both okay but neither of "abdc", "daaaad" are.

Though usually functional approach is shorter so I've been hesitant to add

Can't find a good js minifyer that actually works with variable names

I think that's because changing variable names could trip up reflection.

@Christopher uglify JS does mangling

@Downgoat Yikes that looks like work. Found an online one

:s/ varname / shortervarname /g in vim

esprima.org/demo/minify.html

@JanDvorak what is N?

You may choose the set of non-terminals. Your score is the total length of production rules plus the separators between the rules.

Can someone please explain Bubblegum language?

it's just compression, but as a language

@Christopher it decompressed the code string using one of 4 possible algorithms

So you give it a huge string and it compresses it?

as code or something

@Christopher is it compression program called a programming language

@Christopher yes

and then the compressed string is the code

@Christopher No, you give it a short string an it decompresses it.

@Phoenix seems legit

Though on TIO, you give it a hexdump of the short string.

It's fine because we accept non programming languages to programming challenges because why not

I can't find the code to translate stuff into bubblegum

@JanDvorak ^^ terribly golfed

@Downgoat Bubblegum Is a programming language.

No

You can add two numbers and check primality

I mean it can theoretically execute python code but no

But how to I translate stuff into bubblegum?

@Phoenix that does not make something programming language

@LeakyNun it seems to reject all words of finite length

It does by our dedinition

@Downgoat maybe you're looking for TC instead of "programming language"

Unless you're at PPCG

@JanDvorak I need to learn more about grammar :p do we have an terminating symbol?

what am I asking, {a,b,c,d} are the terminating symbols

How do I use bubblegum...

@LeakyNun correct

@JanDvorak does grammar use regex?

e.g. is the rule S → a*b* valid?

@Christopher You take your wanted result string, run it through deflate, and put that in.

@LeakyNun Nope, but you can use two nonterminals to define the language

@JanDvorak which two? (well, A and B, duh)

@Phoenix uhh I will try that. Once I figure out how to do that

S>aS|S>bB|B>bB|B>_

what is _?

where _ is the empty symbol

it exists :o

S → A
S → B
S → C
S → D
A → _
A → bA
A → cA
A → dA
B → _
B → aB
B → cB
B → dB
C → _
C → aC
C → bC
C → dC
D → _
D → aD
D → bD
D → cD

@Christopher echo 'string to compress' | gzip --no-name -f | xxd

Now it incorrectly accepts the empty string

wait, "exactly three" :o

I'm wondering if this qualifies as a regular challenge

How am I supposed to... exactly three...

@JanDvorak if you never reference > 2 terminals and you need 3 unique characters to match how does work??

Cool

CMC: Given integer n, determine whether the last 2 bits of n's binary are the same (both 00 or both 11)

@Downgoat that set of productions is for a+b+, not for my challenge

@Downgoat the trick is in S>aS

n->n%4==0|n-1%4==0 I think would work

@Mayube Ruby: ->n{n[0]==n[1]}

@Phoenix there's a golfier method (and it is (n+1) anyway)

How does that work

@JanDvorak wait wat

huh.. does ruby treat an int as an array of bits?

In Ruby you can index into numbers. Cool, eh?

@Mayube yes

that's actually pretty cool.

@Mayube n=>~-n&2 (2 for truthy, 0 for falsey)

@JanDvorak I think I should do your challenge in Regex first

Does ReRegex count?

@Phoenix I think you're missing the point

Conversion from regex gives you a 16-nonterminal solution, but that's the best I have as well.

@JanDvorak I don't even have an answer yet, so don't give me hints

sorry

@Mayube MATL, 5 bytes: q4\1>

@JanDvorak I mean regex can simulate any grammar in chompsky normal form with same amount of non terminal so would be same?

@DJMcMayhem ooh nice

@JanDvorak /(a+b+c|a+c+b|b+a+c|b+c+a|c+a+b|c+b+a)[abc]*|etc.|etc.|etc./

this is way too long

#import base
\d+/u{$1}/^(____)+$/Y/_*/_$0/^(____)$/Y/_*/N/#input

should work

Could probably be golfed though

@JanDvorak is my approach good?

I will note that regular expressions are much less efficient than some cases of finite state machines

@JanDvorak I thought they are equivalent

as long as you don't use lookarounds etc

They can match the same set of languages, but not equally conscisely

I thought any regex can be translated as a set of grammar

Yes.

Translating from FSMs to regular expressions is much harder.

I mean, not just equivalent, but they are actually two representations of the same thing

@JanDvorak I see

I mean, I think I have an algorithm to convert DFSMs to regexes. It involves converting simple paths from the starting state to every other. One word: super-exponential

to match strings with a,b,c:
S>aS
S>aA
S>bS
S>bB
S>cS
S>cC
A>bA
A>cA
A>bD
A>cE
B>aB
B>cB
B>aF
B>cG
C>aC
C>bC
C>aH
C>bJ
D>cK
E>bK
F>cK
G>aK
H>bK
J>aK
K>aK
K>bK
K>CK
K>_

and I'm supposed to use only 4 NT symbols here

whereas I actually used 10

so this is a failure

10 isn't bad

@Mego can you update the actal chattiquette link in the room description?

@JanDvorak it shouldn't be too hard dependning on flavor

@Downgoat if the NTs are at the middle then you are gg

if you're using one that doesn't have recursion groups you'll have to funky stuff with parse table and look behind

It's been over a week.

@LeakyNun there's no transition from S>d

In fact, there has been 0 activity on it in over a week.

@JanDvorak look at the first line

(this is just 1/4 of the job)

which is why I said I should only be using 4 symbols

oh

currently my NTs are all on the right

influence of regex

Are you guys specifically restricting yourself to CFGs?

@Phoenix yes

Arthur [Whitney] doesn’t like Gmail’s fonts; (… some more steps, which I forget …) therefore, it seems reasonable to write his own operating system in k.

@JanDvorak is it still good, after knowing that it's only 1/4 of the job?

@Mego On new chat etiquette I have two feedback: 1. I think don't make noise really needs to be emphasized and more specific. I think goat memes are valuable contributions but they don't contribute anything of actual value. While it can be implicitly inferred I think this is better being more explicit. 2. Split up large bullet points into smaller ones. Honestly if I was a new user I probably would not be likely to read a couple paragraphs to chat in TNB, so I think might be helpful to split uo.

@LeakyNun You should be able to get a,b,c in any order down to eight non-terminals

if not better

@JanDvorak what do you mean a,b,c in any order?

> goat memes are valuable contributions

> they don't contribute anything of actual value

@LeakyNun I mean, all of a,b,c

@Downgoat Valuable contributions without value?

@JanDvorak I don't understand

@LeakyNun the language you say you match...

@TuxCopter I realized that too late trying to edit message but SE giving hard time

The fact that we need a new Chatiquette says all that needs to be said, in my opinion.

@JanDvorak my brain is borked

@JanDvorak even if all the production rules are N>ΣN?

I'm basically writing a turing machine...

Yes

Not a Turing machine. You're writing a finite state machine

@JanDvorak I have much to learn

but 8 NTs isn't necessarily shorter than 10 NTs, right?

@Mego no I am not

I only programming for fun

@LeakyNun it might be

8 is a highly asymmetrical number w.r.t. 3

2^3 = 8...

2^3 = 8 is a correct and useful observation

@JanDvorak yes, I got it now, I'm typing

@Mego For #1 I was trying to say "I think goat memes are great, valuable contributions", but they are not on-topic here and don't belong. I think it would help to accentuate the idea that "programming/code/ppcg/etc" are what is belonging in this chatroom, and if you go posting memes, however valuable you think those are it is still deviating from that; that said, with the current wording you could still point to a bullet point and say "that's what you're doing wrong"

//S is start, A is already have A but not B and C, etc.
S>aA
S>bB
S>cC
A>aA
A>bD
A>cE
B>bB
B>aD
B>cF
C>cC
C>aE
C>bF
D>aD
D>bD
D>cH
E>aE
E>cE
E>bH
F>bF
F>cF
F>aH
H>aH
H>bH
H>cH
H>_

@JanDvorak based on this I think I know where the 16 NTs come from

it's still the power set of {a,b,c,d}, right?

@LeakyNun yes

@JanDvorak do you think you can golf down what I just typed?

I wish I knew.

But it's as short as a regular grammar with eight states gets

@JanDvorak sure

Question: can anyone refer me to article about Hindley-Milner that is written with latin alphabet?

@Downgoat this?

why df he ban me

for no reason

he said. "When I have my glassed I c#"

@Tobi who?

"when im something i cfuzzy"

"when i loop at i see c***"

Who banned you?

i asked what he meant

closes Tobi's question as unclear

Mego i think

if he banned you, why can you still talk here?

for 30 mins

talking

He probably didn't

he did

u said

c**

*you

i said what?

cum?

then u banned

u trashed me into a corner for 30 mins

Yeah, were you kicked twice before the "ban"?

no

legit no kicks or anything

striaght 30 min ban

and no one even said anything

i asked what u mean

how am i supposed to know u were making a crude joke

g2g...

Because we don't normally make jokes with accepting flags.

see idk if thats sarcasm

u were

"c***"

then u bannd mne for asking what u were saying

Can you give a link to the specific messages please?

idk the link

I'm curious what C**** stands for

im saying

how am i supposed to know

... oh.

u were making a bad (crude) joke

I thought it was an act of self-censorship as would normally be the case

@Tobi Those are puns.

You're not. I didn't get it either. But it doesn't mean you should blurt out random stuff

yeah its a bad joke, how am i supposed to know it was an attempt at a pun, so i aske him what it meant

Then just ask "What does that mean? I don't get it"

see