The Nineteenth Byte

@Riker So that iStuff is incompatible with non-Apple stuff => So that you have to purchase Apple stuff => So that Apple gets $$$ from the stuff you purchase => Apple Profit $$$.

Riker

@EriktheOutgolfer well yeah that was rhetorical question

quartata

@Riker Delete button is right next to the star button if I'm not mistaken

You will now live in terror of starring messages

So enjoy that

Erik the Outgolfer

Others can't see who starred a message.

DJMcMayhem

I don't think anyone can

Erik the Outgolfer

6:24 PM

Yeah, not even mods can AFAIK.

Riker

@quartata lol

@quartata it's not though :P

@DJMcMayhem yes they can actually, doorknob accidentally did it once

i don't think it's been fixed

quartata

@Riker *flag-delete

@Riker It has

Riker

ah ok

DJMcMayhem

@Riker That's through the API, not the UI, so it's different

Mistah Figgins

@quartata Or you could click the dropdown button and press the sta - oh.

Riker

6:26 PM

true

@quartata the icons on the right of a message are identical though, so I'm good :P

Erik the Outgolfer

That dropdown button is the key.

And no, it has more than the icons on the right.

Kritixi Lithos

@Riker could you see chat flags (before you became a diamond cat)?

Riker

@EriktheOutgolfer no it does not

@KritixiLithos yes I could, I have 10k network wide

DJMcMayhem

@Riker I'm curious, what buttons are available to you on mobile chat? Cause I can see "Reply, Permalink, star, flag, pin, and kick". Can you see all those? More?

Riker

12.6k now

Kritixi Lithos

6:27 PM

Ah, I thought it was 10k in 1 site

Riker

@DJMcMayhem will check in a moment

I don't see 'kick' though, not even on desktop

nvm I see it

@DJMcMayhem I see all of those + edit, that's it

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, you have to click on the user, not the posts

on desktop yeah

@Riker Ah, ok cool

Edit the user???

6:29 PM

@Riker can you edit this message?

Riker

@EriktheOutgolfer no silly favicon

but on mobile, tapping on users takes you to their profile page

everything is done by tapping on msgs

that's not special to mods, tah'ts everybody

Kritixi Lithos

mobile sucks a lot

DJMcMayhem

@Riker Do you mind if I try an experiment? (In the third stack)

Riker

"third stack"?

DJMcMayhem

Brain-flak room, we renamed it

Riker

6:30 PM

found it

betseg

E116: Invalid arguments for function system("[[ ""$TERM"" == ""linux"" ]]")
E15: Invalid expression: system("[[ ""$TERM"" == ""linux"" ]]")

whats wrong

oh [[ is a shell builtin command

Riker

yes

Mistah Figgins

For those who know java Client-Server stuff, can I use the same remote port number on each client to connect to the same server?

betseg

wtf in [, == is for ints and = is for strings

Riker

yes

betseg

6:39 PM

E116: Invalid arguments for function system("[ ""$TERM"" = ""linux"" ]")
E15: Invalid expression: system("[ ""$TERM"" = ""linux"" ]")

;_;

Riker

@Downgoat why does gitgoat give 6 warnings/errors -.-

Kritixi Lithos

Jan 31 at 20:54, by Riker

2545

Q: Proper use cases for Android UserManager.isUserAGoat()?

I was looking at the new APIs introduced in Android 4.2. While looking at the UserManager class I came across the following method: public boolean isUserAGoat() Used to determine whether the user making this call is subject to teleportations. Returns whether the user making this call...

Something like that for iOS perhaps

Mistah Figgins

I'm torn between svr or srv as shortenings for server... What do you all think?

I'm leaning towards svr

But I don't know

mınxomaτ

srv

LliwTelracs

I have just learned that Javascript is apparently turing incomplete as it doesn't have a halt state

mınxomaτ

6:54 PM

If anything, svr would be short for sever (remove vowels). srv (serve) is often used for serve and short for server.

betseg

svr looks like svn

pressing return instead of backspace

Mistah Figgins

Ok, I will use srv

Helka Homba

7:19 PM

@LliwTelracs Huh?

LliwTelracs

@HelkaHomba I learned about it when writing an interpreter for my second entry to the language of unknown Turing Completeness challenge

ais523

@LliwTelracs I think most computer scientists consider that all you need is a halt state equivalent, rather than a literal halt state; there's some debate about what counts as close enough to be an equivalent, though

I think most people agree that something that is obviously an infinite loop (while(1); or the like) is enough, though

Helka Homba

7:34 PM

Why does on-hold music still sound crackly and intermittent these days?

fergusq

@ais523 Isn't it possible to define that while(1); is the same thing as halting as long as such definition doesn't cause contradiction.

ais523

@fergusq sure, and there are languages where a tight infinite loop halts the program; however, normally when you're talking about Turing-completeness in maths you're working with an existing definition that you can't easily change, and trying to see if it's TC or not

(not to mention that if something has syntax that's as expressive as while(1), it's probably sufficiently featureful to be TC anyway)

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Dot Matrix Messages with Github WIP Goal: This goal to take a string and output how many contributions should be made on which days in order to display this message. Font: 5x7 DOT Matrix Input: Take a String Output: List of (date, contribution) pairs in chronological order

Adnan

@mbomb007 nope it does not

Riker

@HelkaHomba because companies are cheap

fergusq

7:44 PM

@ais523 This is actually a pretty interesting question. Lets assume that we have a machine that can interpret a TC language but can't halt ie. the programs start and stop, but the computer keeps running. Is this computer itself TC? It can simulate any Turing machine, so I would say that it is.

ais523

it's a very interesting question, and the centre of something of a row I was drawn into many years ago now

which is basically to do with TCness proofs that work via compiling from a TC language

the question is, what restrictions apply on the compiler, and what restrictions apply on the halt state definition?

clearly there must be some such restrictions; for example, if the compiler interprets the language itself and outputs the steps of the execution, then you can prove even obviously sub-TC languages to be TC

Helka Homba

@Riker I'm listening to crackly jazz and only getting more irate about thee issue I'm calling about U:<

Riker

lol

what's the issue?

but also :(

Helka Homba

hospital bill thingy

LliwTelracs

The issue is that on-hold music is crackly and intermittent

ais523

7:47 PM

"the compiler runs in finite time and deterministically produces an output of finite size" is known to be sufficient, but isn't possible in all cases (e.g. languages where the program is inherently infinitely long)

note that this is rarely an issue at PPCG, infinitely long programs score terribly at code-golf

Riker

@HelkaHomba ah

LliwTelracs

@ais523 A notable exception

Kritixi Lithos

Now that you say it, I've been thinking an anti-golf tag where the objective is to golf your code, but the longest answer wins.

ais523

we have code-bowling, but that's not quite the same

LliwTelracs

longest golfed code wins would mean you need to let other people golf your code

ais523

7:51 PM

yes

but you could just submit a program in rule 110 or sequential tag or something like that (where all programs are infinitely long due to the nature of the language)

fergusq

@ais523 Can't we represent all programs in a finite form? Is it valid for a program to be infinitely long? For example if the program is an infinite sequence of number and we have a finite function that calculates those numbers, we can call that function the program. A program that can't be represented in a finite form can't be represented at all, I think, so would it make sense to ban those programs?

Kritixi Lithos

Java can finally have a winning chance

DJMcMayhem

@KritixiLithos 1) submit a brain-flak answer 2) no one can golf it 3) profit

ais523

@fergusq oh, you deifnitely can represent the program in finite form; the problem is how complex the representation is

say we represent the program as a Python program that produces the (infinitely long) output

DJMcMayhem

Although I guess lenguage is significantly more verbose

ais523

7:53 PM

now the language is almost certainly Turing-complete and I haven't said anything about how it works yet

because you can just do all the computation in the input Python code

fergusq

I see

ais523

so the problem is basically about what rules for the finite form are allowed

Kritixi Lithos

@DJMcMayhem oh yeah, there's going to be a problem with languages like lenguage and unary. Well, there could be an upper limit of program size equal to the max number of characters allowed in an SE post

LliwTelracs

An interesting thing to see for that would be to have your code interpret another language which interprets another language in a chain to run the code

Kritixi Lithos

Lang A interprets Lang B that interprets Lang C which then interprets Lang A

LliwTelracs

7:57 PM

Writing interpreters for other languages to run the code

fergusq

Compiling languages in a cycle could be fun. Compiling A to B and B to A with a non-optimizing compiler would probably have the programs grow in size. How complex could the program become?

mbomb007

@Adnan How about a way to slice a list?

like Python's L[start:end:step]

@DJMcMayhem Oh yeah, I saw that a bit ago and meant to post it in chat yesterday. I guess I forgot.

The original post is here:

180

Q: HTTPS: It's time

This is a heads up, and a request for help. HTTPS for our entire network is long overdue, but we've been working hard on it behind the scenes. Expect a pretty big blog post when we turn it on everywhere that details the journey. There are a few lingering questions on HTTPS we're not confident i...

discussion ssl announcement

Riker

yesterday, by Riker

83

Q: HTTPS: It's time

This is a heads up, and a request for help. HTTPS for our entire network is long overdue, but we've been working hard on it behind the scenes. Expect a pretty big blog post when we turn it on everywhere that details the journey. There are a few lingering questions on HTTPS we're not confident i...

discussion ssl announcement

:p

Helka Homba

Would be so much golfier if https://stuff.com could just be s:stuff.com. h could be http, f could be ftp. Are there more?

Riker

hs for https

Emigna

8:09 PM

@mbomb007 A few different ways you can slice a list in 05AB1E.

Riker

instead of s

AdmBorkBork

@LliwTelracs Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks.

@HelkaHomba Gopher, IRC, SSH, Telnet ...

mınxomaτ

git, ws, wss...

AdmBorkBork

@HelkaHomba Are you calling on a cell phone?

mbomb007

@Emigna Slicing, not chunking.

Helka Homba

8:14 PM

@AdmBorkBork yes

Emigna

@mbomb007 Ah okay, the first example can slice though (but only from the first index)

mbomb007

tio.run/nexus/…

AdmBorkBork

@HelkaHomba Then the crackly intermittent stuff is due to the vocal compression algorithms the cell phone uses. It prioritizes human speech frequencies and sacrifices things outside that range. Coincidentally, that makes on-hold music suck.

Helka Homba

@AdmBorkBork Then they should have spoken poetry instead of music

AdmBorkBork

True, but plenty of people still call from a landline (e.g., most any business office).

Helka Homba

8:17 PM

Or like an audiobook of a short story that would be done by the time you are off hold :P

Emigna

@mbomb007 tio.run/nexus/05ab1e#@295eK6RSfChxYeW6HAB2S6HOw73g1mmhxaD6SCd//…

The first one should be 34.

I loved your almost crack btw! :)

mbomb007

The first method or the second?

Emigna

the First

mbomb007

With K?

Yeah

Emigna

I made it for range[1 .. 10] first and forgot to change it

mbomb007

8:23 PM

I really can't figure out how to reverse every other without needing an additional } at the end.

My first attempt would've needed that too if it worked for all n.

Maybe if I could do two rows per iteration? idk

It's my first time using 05AB1E

Emigna

I didn't use the most obvious method as that would probably have been to easy. It gets harder to golf in 05AB1E with restrictions on non-ascii :)

AdmBorkBork

@ConorO'Brien That's a hilarious way to save a single byte on that BATCH answer. Well done.

Emigna

Especially if you're not familiar with the language already

I'm guessing there's probably 1 command you've overlooked that would make the crack complete

mbomb007

8:45 PM

@Emigna Closer? tio.run/nexus/05ab1e#@x8a4Rbh4xehpe2XFBxkmB2fGaR5aPf//yYA

It's not the right format, though

Emigna

Remove the last char and the format is right

no wait

didn't see the double list

Doesn't really work for other inputs as 4 it seems either

You are on the right track though

Check Out Tomato

@Downgoat STOP renaming Tomato to Tomatogoat.

Riker

where is he doing that?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Put some music in a box code-golf Your task is to take a sequence of letters (the music) as input (in a function or program), and print (or return) the music as it would look like in a music box. You will only receive the letters ABCDEFG as input. This is an empty music box, with length 3: .....