The Nineteenth Byte

Lynn

16:00

8

A: Is mass bountying considered vote fraud?

Bounties are like votes; you're supposed to be awarding the points to the exceptional post, not the user. If it appears someone is repeatedly using bounties to give reputation to the same user on posts that do not appear to deserve it, that's probably an abuse. However mods don't have as good o...

Mitch Schwartz

i can follow hyperlinks as skillfully as the next guy, i think

Lynn

You broke a rule, probably, but I think this isn’t a thing that happens enough for anyone to care about sanctioning it.

Mitch Schwartz

maybe i should give bounties to hello world in stuck instead

Lynn

Maybe drenching every thing you say in sarcasm doesn’t make you an enjoyable person to be around?

Mitch Schwartz

good

people here take their internet points very seriously

Anonymous

16:06

@MitchSchwartz You didn't break any rules, here. Now, some of us might disagree with your choice of bounty recipients, but what you do with your rep vis-a-vis bounties is your choice, so long as you aren't abusing the system (which you aren't).

Mitch Schwartz

it's just a bunch of button clicks, you know

Dada

@MitchSchwartz I agree that a lot of Ton's post deserve more rep than they have, but I think you could have chosen better posts to award your bounties.

Lynn

Same

Mitch Schwartz

they are the first three, as martin noticed

Dada

The point of bounties is to get attention to the posts, so it would be more effective to award them to his most impressive golfings (and some are really outstanding)

Lynn

16:11

There’s a StackExchange guideline dictating what bounties exist for, and I think “leveraging points to people because you think they are cool” isn’t within their… intended use, at least.

Anonymous

@Dada I agree with this, but as I stated in my meta answer, unless Mitch is trying to abuse the system (and it doesn't really look like it), they're free to post bounties however they wish.

Mitch Schwartz

well i'm glad at least that nobody has tried to refute the claim that ton hospel is cool

Lynn

It’s not just people being serious about internet points: bounties are also very loud (they bump the post and mark it with a little “+500” icon)

Mitch Schwartz

mmhmm, and i care little for that

Lynn

Ton Hospel is the coolest, yo

Business Cat

16:12

He sure is

Mitch Schwartz

the designers of the system make it a certain way, and people fall in line. it's interesting

Dada

@MitchSchwartz SE is about post, not about posters. And that's good like that: a low rep user can post a very good answer, as a high rep user can post a bad answer. That's why awarding bounties to a precise answer makes more sense than to a specific user. (even if in that case, so much answers of Ton are awesome are deserve more rep)

Mitch Schwartz

oh that's not true

look at the meta post

"For reference, a user with 2093 rep is giving 1500 rep to a user with 8643 rep."

now, why would you include that information

if it's about posts, and not posters

DJMcMayhem

For reference?

Mitch Schwartz

are you telling me my point isn't valid

DJMcMayhem

16:17

TBH I'm not sure what your point is.

Lynn

@MitchSchwartz Yes, I “fall in line” with the system’s guidelines, in the sense that I try not to act disruptive. You’re bumping answers that aren’t particularly noteworthy, or at least not selected by you for noteworthiness. If you don’t care about that, then whatever, but if everyone funnelled rep around like this, the bounties tab would be an innavigable mess.

DJMcMayhem

It looks to me like you're trying to push people's buttons by complaining about the site

11

Mitch Schwartz

ok, so why did you respond in a way that makes it look like i can't read

if you didn't even know what my point was

Lynn

I think you assume far worse intentions about everyone here than anyone here has towards you, @MitchSchwartz.

mınxomaτ

Indeed

Lynn

16:19

I linked a relevant meta post and you instantly reacted as if I was being patronizing.

Mitch Schwartz

eh

so nobody thinks i have valid points

fair enough

carry on

Lynn

I don’t think ill of you at all for disagreeing about how StackExchange should be used, and I think your contributions to this site are very valuable — but I don’t know why you’re being a passive-aggresive jerk towards everyone who’s trying to talk to you about it.

6

El'endia Starman

@mınxomaτ While I am amused, I think that runs afoul of SE's Be Nice policy...

mınxomaτ

@El'endiaStarman Fair enough.

Mitch Schwartz

uh

oh, i was confused at first who El'endia was referring to, then read it more carefully

Anonymous

16:24

@MitchSchwartz Speaking of Be Nice...

redstarcoder

@MitchSchwartz the Internet points here unlock certain privileges, so they do matter a little bit

Mitch Schwartz

not to me they don't

redstarcoder

To the site they do though.

Mitch Schwartz

i'm not trying to be mean to anyone ok

i'm sorry if i hurt anyone's feelings

i didn't think that i was being a jerk, i thought i was being mildly upset about people responding to me in ways that didn't really make sense

Lynn

For what it’s worth I think your points are valid, and stuff like bounties is arguable. I err on the side of “using SE the way the devs intended it”, but you can use it whichever way you want to

Mitch Schwartz

16:26

i mean, very very mildly upset

maybe i've played too much sarcastaball lately

redstarcoder

@MitchSchwartz I'm not saying you're being mean, I was just explaining some of the mentality behind the pushback you're recieving.

Mitch Schwartz

and it gives people wrong ideas about what i mean

Lynn

Mhm, mhm

Mitch Schwartz

oh i'm not surprised at pushback

people talk about how votes are intended to work

and how reputation is intended to work

and i look at the voting patterns and think it's just silly

DJMcMayhem

FWIW, I fully agree that a lot of voting patterns are really dumb

Mitch Schwartz

16:29

i usually use a greasemonkey script that hides votes when i view the main site these days

DJMcMayhem

(Like hello world in stuck)

Mitch Schwartz

i thought it was really cool that ton hospel visited the site and participated quite a lot

i wanted to give him some positive attention

apparently though

people just want to talk about rules and stuff

and idk

Lynn

Oh, yeah, people commit far worse abuses of the system than this every day by upvoting low-effort trash like that, IMO.

redstarcoder

I saw the bounties and thought "neat, haven't seen that before". I don't think anyone views this as a huge issue

Anonymous

I think we could all benefit by remembering to Assume Good Faith more often

4

Lynn

16:31

@MitchSchwartz I’d honestly be interested in something similar… Sorting by “active” helps too

quartata

@Downgoat If you read that discussion more carefully you would have noticed hat I did not say it should match pixel perfect...

Mitch Schwartz

i think, lynn, that the way you posted that link elicited a negative response from me because it felt somehow evasive to me

quartata

ais's idea I think provides the best way of visualizing/setting the tolerance

Lynn

Ohh, yeah, I get that — it was mostly just “here’s someone explaining it better than I can”

(It wasn’t even in response to anything specific you’d said, I just found it at that moment; maybe I should have linked it with a bit more context)

Mitch Schwartz

hmm, out of curiosity

did you get there from dennis's comment

as i did

or did you find it through a search independently

Lynn

16:36

Nope, I was looking it up on Meta myself

Mitch Schwartz

oh ok

sorry

Lynn

’s fine, miscommunications like this happen! Sorry for calling you a jerk

Hatchet status: BURIED

2

Mitch Schwartz

no problem lol

Sherlock9

I really need to build better endurance for these discussions. My instinct is to hide under the covers until the adults stop fighting :P

12

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 It's cute that you think we're adults

8

DJMcMayhem

16:43

By age or spirit?

Mitch Schwartz

btw, if nobody made a fuss about my bounty plans, i wouldn't have tried to "push people's buttons by complaining" or whatever

i've just been responding to stuff

not entirely correctly, maybe

Pavel

@ATaco what do the commands i and d commands do? I can't really figure it out just by looking at the code.

Business Cat

In what language?

Pavel

Threead

github.com/TehFlaminTaco/Threead/blob/master/functions.lua

James Holderness

I don't think anyone cares what reason people use for handing out bounties. The highest rep earned on SO in a single day came from someone giving away all their rep in a rage quit. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/267557/…

Business Cat

16:56

@JamesHolderness Wtf, somebody got 1035 accepted answers in 1 day

Oh, my bad, 1035 rep from accepts

Still a lot

James Holderness

No he was gifted 1500 in bounties. Or are you looking at something else?

Business Cat

Oh, yeah I ran the query they linked under the screenshot. The 4th place person got that

Rainbolt

@JamesHolderness He's talking about this query

James Holderness

oh ok

Rainbolt

I'm too slow :(

Lynn

17:01

> As of today, that record belongs to David Robinson who earned 1550 rep on July 6th, 2013.

So if Ton Hospel makes a really good post 7 days from now… :)

James Holderness

Something very suspicious about those 1035 accepts points. All of them were on 0 score answers.

Oh I see what it is. He was answering his own questions.

And then accepting all of his own answers.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

wait why we have 3 500pt bounties

i thought the best of ppcg wasn't over yet

Business Cat

Because Ton Hospel is cool

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

i can tell now

Dennis

@JamesHolderness it happened once != it's OK or nobody cares

James Holderness

17:10

I certainly care. If it wasn't for that lame bounty gifting I'd be top of that leaderboard. :(

But if anyone was going to do anything about it they would have do so a long time ago.

Rainbolt

Are you sure about that? It seems that all the mods have to go on to decide whether this behavior is okay is a +7 answer posted by someone who doesn't appear to have any authority whatsoever that contains only the author's opinion on the matter. I wouldn't act quickly in a situation like that. I would wait to see what the community thinks.

Well, strike that. The author is a mod on User Experience Stack Exchange, so he has some authority.

But not over this domain specifically

Anonymous

I'm just going to let the mods deal with the situation now, and leave it be. I said my share on Meta, and I'm happy to wash my hands of it and let the mods do what they do best.

DJMcMayhem

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ yeah, scroll up

We've been talking about that for a while

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

ye

Rainbolt

Has anyone asked Mitch whether he finds the answers posted by Ton Hospel to be great answers?

Nevermind, the silence after a few minutes was the answer I needed

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

17:29

they're good answers IMO

I can see sorta why you'd bounty them (if you were bountying the specific answers), though not on the order of 500

Rainbolt

But the crux of the situation seems to be not what you think of the answers, but what Mitch thinks.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

ye

Mitch Schwartz

17:40

don't bother refunding me if you decide that you don't won ton to get the points

DJMcMayhem

I don't think it works that way

Either ton gets it or you do, there's no way to delete rep

Mitch Schwartz

eh maybe i should have written it as a comment then, to dennis's answer that has the sentence "I'm not saying that we will (or should) in this particular case, but moderators can refund bounties under exceptional circumstances."

El'endia Starman

I think rep automatically gets refunded if a mod cancels the bounty, but there aren't any bounties on C.SE at the moment so I can't check.

DJMcMayhem

@El'endiaStarman I have some rep there if you want to test it

El'endia Starman

@DJMcMayhem Hah, nah, don't bother. PPCG mods can tell us.

DJMcMayhem

17:43

Oh! There's an election. Interesting

El'endia Starman

There's probably also something on Meta.SE about it.

DJMcMayhem

I have one decently received question there with 5k views

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman Refunded or awarded bounties never lose rep. If a question with an awarded bounty gets deleted, the bounty poster still gets their rep back.

According to Mother Meta, anyway.

Anonymous

So I'm sure this isn't possible, but... Can moderators force a bounty to be awarded to the Community user?

Anonymous

Actually, can moderators force the awarding of a bounty at all?

TuxCopter

17:56

Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft

The compound word Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft (pronounced [ˌdoːnaʊˈdampfʃɪffaːʁtsˌʔelɛktʁitsiˈtɛːtn̩ˈhaʊptbəˌtriːpsvɛʁkbaʊˈʔʊntɐbəˈʔamtn̩gəˌzɛlʃaft]; English: Association for subordinate officials of the head office management of the Danube steamboat electrical services) is an example of the virtually unlimited compounding of nouns that is possible in many Germanic languages. According to the 1996 Guinness Book of World Records, it is the longest word published in the German language, having 79 letters. It was allegedly a suborganization...

wut

Rainbolt

Ugh. I had a great idea for a KotH challenge last night while I was falling asleep, and I cannot remember any of it.

It had something to do with Dark Age of Camelot

Business Cat

That looks more like a name than a word

mınxomaτ

It's hardly longer in english.

Just with spaces.

I remember Top Gear making fun of the length of "Doppelkupplungsgetriebe" (Doppel-kupplungs-getriebe), which is actually shorter than it's translation: "double clutch transmission".

Nathan Merrill

@Rainbolt sad day!

I keep on wanting to do a mobility-based KoTH

Rainbolt

I just had another idea. A bunch of cars are driving on a two lane road. Each driver has a speed that they would like to be moving at, but they have to pass in order to go that speed. Output the most efficient pass order such that the total speed of all drivers is maximised after N (another input) seconds.

Nathan Merrill

18:03

that seems like a very complicated input/output

Dennis

@Mego No, they cannot. Well, Community can, but it's not a flesh-and-blood mod.

quartata

@mınxomaτ I think most people who don't know a Germanic language don't get that these words are compound

Nathan Merrill

like, you need to input their speed, position, (lane?) desired speed, and you need to output a list of lane changes, and accelerations

mınxomaτ

@quartata At least we have an easy word for most compound words: Determinativkompositum.

Digital Trauma

Crossed-out 44,444 is still 44,444

15

Rainbolt

18:05

@NathanMerrill Yea... it needs to be simplified. The most important thing though is does it have a super easy solution that would undermine how interesting the challenge is, before I go through the trouble of making the input and output simpler?

DJMcMayhem

@quartata English is a Germanic language right?

Nathan Merrill

and it also begs questions of "can a driver go over their desired speed"? If so, you wouldn't score by the total speed, but rather the absolute difference of their speed

quartata

@DJMcMayhem *other than english

muddyfish

@DigitalTrauma it's got a comma so it won't be exactly the same

quartata

The lack of spaces is what makes the difference

TuxCopter

18:06

@DJMcMayhem Yeah but it's pretty far from modern german

DJMcMayhem

@peoplewhoknowmorelinguisticsthanI Which language is most similar to English?

Erik the Outgolfer

I think you just disappointed Digital Trauma.

Nathan Merrill

oh, another variable is car length

Rainbolt

@NathanMerrill A lot of the questions you are asking are probably easy to answer. They all start in the right lane, they start 5 meters apart, the cars are 3 meters long, they can't drive faster than their max speed, etc.

Digital Trauma

@EriktheOutgolfer :( sad face

Rainbolt

18:07

I think I'll go ahead and sandbox it

quartata

@DJMcMayhem Jamaican Patois :P

DJMcMayhem

500 years ago the answer would have been German iirc

quartata

But seriously Dutch, probably.

Still pretty different but

Rainbolt

@NathanMerrill Thanks for the early feedback ;)

orlp

AWWWWW

Nathan Merrill

18:10

yep :)

orlp

@quartata im dutch!

TuxCopter

@DJMcMayhem Ænglisc?

mınxomaτ

@orlp A few days later: sendvid.com/qmfdl5bx

DJMcMayhem

@orlp would you agree that Dutch and English are similar? (Since you'd know more than the rest of us would)

Digital Trauma

@muddyfish rushes to data.se - no confounding commata there

enters select Reputation from Users where Id = 11259

dammit data.SE seems to be a few days behind :(

TuxCopter

18:15

inb44445

orlp

@DJMcMayhem yes

I speak so much english it affects my dutch

I start saying things literally translated from english

DJMcMayhem

Wow

mınxomaτ

TIL

DJMcMayhem

A fun V quine

AFAIK, that's the shortest trivially modifiable quine

New Main Posts

3

Q: Arranging Bubbles

Note, challenge copied from question asked at math.stackexchange. Recently, I attained quite some skill at blowing bubbles. At first I would blow bubbles like this: But then things started getting strange: After a while, I was blowing some pretty weird bubbles: After blowing hundreds, ma...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:33

> easy

@DJMcMayhem what's the origin of your name?

also lol you went the way of the hat photoshop, I just noticed

FlipTack

does anyone know the name of the sorting algorithm which keeps removing the max element and appending it to a new list?

quartata

Selection sort?

But that's in-place usually

FlipTack

yep, that's the one I was looking for (but forgot it's in place)

thanks

mınxomaτ

Insanity. A server with 48 NVMe drive slots.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

why

mınxomaτ

18:39

Well if you need 7x the R/W performance of an SSD array, I guess this is for you.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

why would you though

mınxomaτ

Mostly Big Data map reduce tasks.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@mınxomaτ why not just use a bunch of little ones? isn't that better for backup/fallback purposes?

@mınxomaτ ah, makes sense

mınxomaτ

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You won't get the latency as low as full-NVMe arrays.

But yeah, the 10-drive one makes more sense.

Fully populated, the 24 drive one would cost about $50k, which is actually pretty cheap.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

ah

mınxomaτ

18:42

(with 44 cores and 400GB of RAM)

For example, we run a lost of concurrent tasks that aggregate and merge data on disk. The current strategy is to buy last-generation servers and run most of the stuff in memory. E.g. a 12-core DL160 with 192GB RAM is only about $600 today.

The loss of value graph over time of enterprise hardware is vertical.

DJMcMayhem

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ a few years ago a friend of mine (my current roommate) put his name in my sister's contacts as "DJMcMayhem" and I thought it was hilarious so I changed my steam name to that. Then I started using it for everything else because it's always available

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

ah, lol

DJMcMayhem

So he came up with it and I shamelessly stole it

(but I doubt either of them remember it)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

DJMcMayhem

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Also, yes. I liked the "mad catter in the hat" combo too much to pass up on it, lol

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:47

lol

much lol very wow

DJMcMayhem

Are you actually laughing out loud, or just stoicly typing "lol" with a straight-face?

6

Business Cat

Pretty sure everyone does the latter

Martin Ender

@MitchSchwartz I don't mind that you want to give 1500 rep to Ton, but you're clearly doing it because he posts great content, so I find it odd that you award them simply to his first three answers.

That's the only part I'd consider misuse of the bounty system, specifically because it draws attention to the wrong posts. How would you feel about being refunded the three bounties and then putting them on three of Ton's really exceptional answers? You get to give him the bounty, he gets the rep, people's attention is drawn to some amazing content, everyone wins.

El'endia Starman

I usually have at least a smile on my face when I type 'lol' seriously.

Martin Ender

@El'endiaStarman I also think that but then I usually find that I just smiled in my head. Moving facial muscles is apparently too much effort.

DJMcMayhem

18:54

The SO survey is live! Yay! \o/

El'endia Starman

@MartinEnder Well, I guess that's true for me fairly often.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Prime Factors that Weren't there Before Given a list of integers a, calculate the prime factorization for each integer in the array. Then, return a list of factors that do not appear in the original input, even as part of another number. For instance, if you were given: a = [1243,11311] The pr...

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Maximize the velocity of a group of cars A group of cars are in the right lane of a straight two lane highway. Each car has a preferred speed. In order to reach this preferred speed, some of the cars need to change lanes, perhaps multiple times. All cars are exactly 1 meter long. At the start...

El'endia Starman

I'll bet the lack of need for others to see our reactions means that we can do them solely mentally more often.

orlp

There are 85110442057803083017176654380266228335153355621773071812575001060246853245317670‌632918902737154788357496625336926425801378288852687960594528764531467171738822030‌8429708770104103735878788902078937174928693455204507540870849529634520 ways to rearrange 500 bubbles.

in case you wanted to know

betseg

How to calculate

Anonymous

18:59

@MartinEnder I golf my muscle impulses so that I only type "lol" instead of actually laughing or smiling.

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