The Nineteenth Byte - 2017-01-11 (page 1 of 6)

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12:21 AM

hmm... should the depth of the empty list be 0 or 1?

@ConorO'Brien 0

why?

In what context?

general

0.

12:32 AM

I think 0 too, just because I don't think of emptyness as having depth

wait should the depth of a list without arrays in it also be 0

Well 1 would be for a one-dimentional list, meaning it has a set of elements which do in a direction, 0 doesn't really have any dimensions. (That probably didn't make remote sense >_>)

Although {{}} does have a depth of 2, {} should be 0 where {anything} is possible, or 1 if it's only over a list of lists.

^^ Made sense to me

There are good reasons to want to identify an empty list when detecting depth, but it really does depend on the application.

12:33 AM

11

Q: Why $\mathbf{0}$ vector has dimension zero?

According to C.H. Edwards' Advanced Calculus of Several Variables: The dimension of the subspace $V$ is defined to be the minimal number of vectors required to generate $V$ (pp. 4). Then why does the $\mathbf{0}$ vector have dimension zero instead of one? Shouldn't it be true that only the empty...

@LuisMendo I have a telecommunications exam in two days, argh. :)

@ATaco I'm making a depth function for my language

You should use 1 then, as I'm assuming lists can contain more than just other lists.

yup

it can contain anything

Which language is this, out of curiousity? Was it you that was working on Stacked?

12:38 AM

yes, it is :)

the very same language

Then I definitely recommend 1 based. But I'm just one opinion.

okay, thanks

@Downgoat you still think 0?

How does someone get a computer science degree and not be able to solve FizzBuzz?

@ATaco where is said person

quora.com/…

12:40 AM

By being a person who dreams in code?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Zizouz212 do wobbuffets dream of open source code?

Wynaut?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lel

Actually, writing it in assembly might be a nightmare.

@ConorO'Brien yes, but my advice shouldn't have much weight since I do not math :P

22 hours ago, by Downgoat

user image

12:43 AM

@Downgoat but you do program. does cheddar have a depth builtin?

Nope

@ATaco it's just another esolang

I was adding it a few months ago and dropped it for some reason

RProgN also, for the record, does not contain a Depth Builtin.

But the Builtins RProgN has aren't always useful.

@ATaco I couldn't help but notice you don't have an entry in the Time capsule yet.

12:48 AM

I didn't notice the next time capsule was taking entries.

Ok

The way it works, is you commit to making a language by the end of the year

OOoo, Writing a new language.

And then it will be used in a polyglot challenge

See current entries here

I've wanted to write BrainOrgy, which is a brainfuck-like that runs n brainfuck codes on the same tape. All the codes being split by newlines.

But that's kind of boring.

We already have one trivial BF derivitive courtesy of Wat.

12:52 AM

When's the cutoff date?

@ATaco please no

Dec 15 '16 at 19:34, by Dennis

> A friendly message from The Name of All that is Good and Holy: Hello! This is The Name of All that is Good and Holy. Before you think of making your own extension to this language, here's another idea for you to consider: Don't! For the love of me, please don't make another derivative of this language! Unless you have something truly new to contribute, it's been done a million times before and will probably make it worse than the original.

Plus I don't really care for the name TBH

@redstarcoder December 31st, 2017.

Just an Idea I had.

I'll probably have a better idea.

But I recomend not trying to implement a language in one day.

Oh wow

*><> was done in a day

So was my ><> interpreter

12:54 AM

It's effectively a showcase of 2017 languages.

Techincally, so was WSF.

Just a feature here and there afterwards :p

I could write a language that's interpreted backwards.

But... Why?

How would that...

Why would anyone want to do that?

Read a file, backwards.

That simple.

E S O T E R I C A E S T H E T I C

You're also allowed to submit multiple languages.

In addition, if you've already made a langauge, provided it wasn't completed before 2017, you can add it anyway.

In fact, you're encouraged to.

12:56 AM

Well, in that way I could just add RProgN.

But I have no intention to finish RProgN.

Do language revisions count? O:

Not really

Yeah should be whole new specs

If you could reasonable call it a 2017 language, then it's allowed.

@ATaco isn't there already an RProgN 2?

I have some rediculous ideas which I could maybe draw but struggle to put into words

12:58 AM

There's a Perl 6 but it's not used.

RProgN 2 is a re-write that's also being done by me.

To quote WheatWizard's entry, "A open source and extendable version of the game SpaceChem by Zachtronics"

Which somehow is entirely text-based

I appreciate that idea.

It does have to be text-based, that's the one other requirement.

SPacechem is awesome.

And it's fairly easy to make text based.

Define "text-based"

1:00 AM

@Dennis Can you please pull MATL?

I was thinking of using all 8 bits

@LuisMendo Done.

The question of text based spacechem: does it handle collisions like the original?

Because there are a lot of intricacies there

It can, but not as presicely.

@Pavel like I want my language to probably need its own text editor, but to be possible to write in vim probably. Would that be cool?

1:03 AM

0

Q: Find an Eulerian Circuit

Challenge You have been assigned a task to write a program which takes a multigraph as its input and if it contains an Eularian circuit to return one. Otherwise, the program's behavior is undefined, according to the specifications you're handed by your boss. However, you recently caught your ne...

code-golf code-challenge graph-theory

@redstarcoder It'll be used in a polyglot challenge

What do you mean?

Ah

@Dennis Thank you!

TrojanByAccident

@redstarcoder vim?

1:04 AM

@Pavel I can make that work

Basically, the source has to be text.

@TrojanByAccident a popular ncurses based text editor

@Lynn Nice! If I can help with that let me now :-)

Aka, if you have two large molecules rotating that collide mid rotation (but not after), does it catch that?

No Piet.

@TrojanByAccident also known as the second best text editor, vastly superior to Emacs or Nano.

TrojanByAccident

1:05 AM

I just use Atom

Well "text" can encompass every 8bit possibility. But I'll stick to 0-127

TrojanByAccident

Atom's made by GitHub, too, so I feel better using it

Or 32-127 if necessary

@TrojanByAccident good for you. Don't let others evangelize you to switch :)

@TrojanByAccident I use Geany as my graphical text editor. It feels like Notepad++ but on Linux and better (seems lighter).

1:07 AM

Awwwww yisss Cheddar C++ stuffs stopped erroring! :D

TrojanByAccident

@redstarcoder I honestly don't like Notepad++

@NathanMerrill :)

Also, Atom is hackable

@LuisMendo Ahh, I wish I had specific questions to ask you, instead of the problem just being… not knowing which bits of info in these PPTs is useful :(

Does Github make Atom? I can't find that anywhere

@TrojanByAccident like, the look and feel?

TrojanByAccident

@redstarcoder github.com/blog/1831-atom-free-and-open-source-for-everyone

1:09 AM

It has to be useable in a polyglot challenge, it does not necesarilly have to be the best choice in a polyglot challenge. It can use all of unicode, but then it won't work with any languages that only support ASCII (of which there shouldn't be many)

TrojanByAccident

@NathanMerrill yeah

@TrojanByAccident I found the license just as you sent that haha thanks

TrojanByAccident

anyway, going away for dinner now

Just no piet and fugue

TrojanByAccident

bbl

1:09 AM

Or let me put it this way, if you can enter it into TIO, it's fine.

Oooh that raises all sorts of questions

plays with tio

Yes this will do.

@Pavel so any of these? tio.run/#IeD5H

I love all the ones the mess with text direction and such

Sure, ><> is valid.

Or it would be if it was a 2017 lang

I mean hit run

I'll use UTF-8

Oh yes

It'll probably be really bad for the challenge

But yes

It'll be fun for the challenge :)

1:22 AM

But don't design your language for the challenge, design it to be an intresting language.

But that ^ is not fun to code in.

Question: how to write tests for a rm file function?

It will be

It has to be fun for me to code in, so it won't be intentionally painful

rm? Just create a directory with a bunch of text.txt

And I've been thinking about it for weeks

If they get deleted, it works.

The other test you should try is sudo rm -rf / --no-preserve-root

1:29 AM

@Downgoat I'd place the file in /tmp with touch, and rm it

2:01 AM

> Website: "ASCII Art Generator"
Website: *uses unicode*

TrojanByAccident

2:15 AM

@Pavel want to do something now?

Not particularly. I can poke around in the code and make a commit on my own time, but not really feeling it right now.

TrojanByAccident

I meant on anything random

When I have time to work on Code i'm going to work on my Sushi interpreter.

TrojanByAccident

Alrighty

I should really be doing my schoolwork anyway :P

8

Q: Hats Contest (say good bye to the Winter Bash)

In case you did not know we have contests here on the meta from time to time. Before the hats are all packed up for another year, lets do something fun to make them last just a bit longer. The objective of this contest to is model and render a hat (or more then one), but not just any hat, a ...

discussion featured contest

^ Fun contest on Blender.SE

@HelkaHomba challenge idea: winter bash hat based challenge to recreate winter bash hat (see above for inspiration)

TrojanByAccident

2:20 AM

@Downgoat The deadline is already over

@TrojanByAccident what?

@Downgoat except... they linked to our pop-con

TrojanByAccident

> All images must be posted (as an answer below) by January 11, 2017 at UTC 00:00:00z.

@TrojanByAccident oh, I'm talking about creating a PPCG derivative challenge, not necessarily to specifically participate in Blender.SE challenge

TrojanByAccident

@Downgoat Oh

2:23 AM

@Downgoat what is the objective criterion?

TrojanByAccident

Maybe render a hat in ASCII?

Why ASCII when you can render art?

@ConorO'Brien I dunno, that's why I pinged Helka instead of coming up with my own idea :P

lol

We could say, given a maximum of X bytes, make the prettiest picture.

Just straight up art-competition

2:25 AM

but that wouldn't be on topic on main?

TrojanByAccident

e.e I know know languages that can generate an image

:( I can't post my XML regex here:

1326

Q: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

I need to match all of these opening tags: <p> <a href="foo"> But not these: <br /> <hr class="foo" /> I came up with this and wanted to make sure I've got it right. I am only capturing the a-z. <([a-z]+) *[^/]*?> I believe it says: Find a less-than, then Find (and capture) a-z one or ...

html regex xhtml

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat Wow, that First Responder hat is incredible. The other submissions are great too.

@El'endiaStarman The Maverick/In Style one?

@ConorO'Brien It could intresting. It's still about what you can do in a limited code size.

2:28 AM

@Pavel but no objective winning criterion

Upvotes-Downvotes

not objective enough, that's consensus iirc

any Factorio players on?

TrojanByAccident

@NathanMerrill I would say yes, but you won't bother to pirate it for me

NO.

You can't do that.

2:33 AM

not really sorry :)

TrojanByAccident

:)

Are learning algorithms common on PPCG?

@Pavel Please define 'can\'t'.

not in this room they aren't.

If you don't stop, El'Endia will eventually notice, and then you will be suspended.

@TrojanByAccident depends on the challenge. On KoTHs, they are pretty popular

suppose I have a function P that takes arguments x and f and applies f to x until f(x) has been seen before. (E.g., P(x = 3, f = x -> x % 2) would yield the steps [3, 1].) Suppose I have P(x, id) where id is the identity function. Should it return [x, x] or [x]?

TrojanByAccident

2:37 AM

@NathanMerrill I want to make a challenge for users to create a predictive guessing algorithm

make a sandbox post. Those kinds of challenges are really hard to get the specs right

TrojanByAccident

K

@ConorO'Brien [x]

@ConorO'Brien I know I've been bugging you a lot about cheddar stuff recently :P but do you have time to help me quickly just verify cheddar is working on windows?

@Downgoat yeah, totally

I'm going to try working on functional docs once I figure out where cheddar is

(this weekend, probably)

2:39 AM

okay. Well all you need to do is git clone --recursive https://github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheddar.git -b bindings, then go to cloned directory and just do npm install

if there is any errors just let me know

this is going to make a directory named cheddar no?

TrojanByAccident

yes

I mean, technically, it's Cheddar, but :P

kay, thanks

@ConorO'Brien Cheddar, yeah

if you have a folder with pictures of all your delicious cheeses like me you're gonna have to rename it or something for now :P

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\cheddar\cheddarWindowsTest
λ git clone --recursive github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheddar.git -b bindings
Cloning into 'Cheddar'...
remote: Counting objects: 6647, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (90/90), done.
remote: Total 6647 (delta 24), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 6555
Receiving objects: 100% (6647/6647), 1.90 MiB | 749.00 KiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (3773/3773), done.
Checking connectivity... done.
Checking out files: 100% (244/244), done.

seems good

2:41 AM

@Zgarb great challenge (Zero sum covers). It's nice to see a popular mathy challenge

TrojanByAccident

Does anyone know what tag I can use for my porpoisition?

that largely depends on how you score it

TrojanByAccident

well, it'll be code-golf

then stick with that, and then worry about tags later

tags are the least of your problems

TrojanByAccident

okay

2:47 AM

What do you mean? So, it gets fed a stream of data, and score is how accurately it's able to predict what comes next?

That sounds like test-battery

no, test-battery is about taking the output of the submission, and testing it in lots of ways

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat No, the top hat with 2017 on it.

CMC: given an element A and a list L, intersperse A in L, e.g. for A = 0 and L = (1 2 3 4 5), yield (1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 5)

TrojanByAccident

@Pavel I'll post the sandbox answer in a sec

also, can someone link me to the standard loopholes?

@ConorO'Brien Is there a PPCG challenge for this?

2:57 AM

@Qwerp-Derp idk

(int A,java.util.ArrayList<Long>L)->{for(int i=0;i<L.length()-2;i+=2)L.add(a,i+1);return L}

probably

@Pavel as a note, I don't consider my meta post to be in effect. It hasn't been 24 hours, and not a ton of upvotes either

@ConorO'Brien Does the list always contain integers?

@Qwerp-Derp if you want it to

3:00 AM

Or, a->L->{for(int i=0;i<L.length()-2;i+=2)L.add(a,i+1);return L}

Depending on if you allow that.

Actually, can a function modify its arguments without needing to return anything?

Then I could cut the return statement.

@Pavel you can return through the arguments, I believe

30

A: Default for Code Golf: Input/Output methods

Functions may output by modifying their arguments or writing to out arguments

Ok, 'cause ArrayList.add() modifies the original instead of returning a new one.

a->L->{for(int i=0;i<L.length()-2;i+=2)L.add(a,i+1);}

also, it may be shorter if you add in reverse order

because then you don't have to increment by 2

Then I would have to decrement by 2

#(loop[a[(nth % 0)]b 1](if(< b(count %))(recur(into[](concat a[%2(nth % b)]))(inc b))a))

3:09 AM

no, just by one

Since I'm still increasing the length each time

Eh, that's good enough

right, but the extra length goes beyond where you care about

But if we're doing it backwards, then we're counting from the end.

We could store the initial length, but then we're wasting more than the one byte we save.

{1,2,3,4,5}
insert at 4
{1,2,3,4,0,5}
insert at 3
{1,2,3,0,4,0,5}

so on

3:11 AM

Oh wait, I get it now

I did a stupid

a->L->{for(int i=L.length()-2;i>0-2;i--)L.add(a,i);}

That actually saves 3 bytes

I don't think that -2 is right

the above array has 5 elements, and you insert at 4

Right

a->L->{for(int i=L.length()-1;i>0;i--)L.add(a,i);}

and what's the purpose of i>0-2?

IDK. That's a typo

This would be such a pain with arrays...

finally, I think you can do L.add(a,i--) in the last statement of the for loop, which saves a character

3:17 AM

a->L->{for(int i=L.length();i>1;)L.add(a,i--);}

Ad that really does seem to be the best it gets without completely rewriting it.

@Downgoat How exactly does semicolon insertion work in JS?

TrojanByAccident

@quartata amazingly

i>1 isn't correct, i>0 is

you want to do it at index 1, but not at index 0

Isn't it?

When i is 1, why do i--, which makes it 0

@quartata it doesn't

3:20 AM

@TrojanByAccident I'm under the impression that it's one of the worst features of JS but unfortunately I'm obligated to abuse it here

Now that we've shifted the decrement into the add statement, we have to increase both the start and end point by one.

@Downgoat ... more specific?

oh true

TrojanByAccident

@quartata It's not, I find it great

@TrojanByAccident There's a differenc between newlines as end of statements and what JS does

The former is not really what I'm referring to

TrojanByAccident

3:21 AM

@quartata if there's a newline and no semicolon, then ASI applies

You can read the EMCA stuff here

Also read here

and here

Wow. For the first time ever a JS feature works exactly how I want it to.

Just you wait, there's some really weird problem with it that will break all your code.

If the specification is correct it conforms exactly with what I'm doing.

The downside is this will look extremely ugly

Yeah, but JS can't just randomly work.

4

The spec must be wrong.

hahaha

ha

3:27 AM

Uhhh when MousePressed is in draw and when I click on the mouse, the function executes multiple times

Doesn't it execute during every update the mouse is pressed?

Yeah

But I want to make it so that it executes only once on every mouse press

That's pretty much impossible, isn't it?

You could have a variable that's set to false when the mouse isn't pressed

@quartata JS attempts to insert a semicolon at the first newline where that semicolon won't break anything else

Then, when mouse is pressed, check if it's true, if not, execute whatever and set it to true.

3:44 AM

then, do a cartwheel

0

Q: Hack the elections

You're a professional hacker and your boss Vladimir has just ordered you to help his favorite candidate to win the U.S. election. Your task is to alter the voting machines data to boost your candidate results. Voting machines store voting results as two integers : the number of votes for your ca...

TrojanByAccident

@NewMainPosts This is just amazing

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that on main.

why?

TrojanByAccident

@quartata The new one? Why not?

3:53 AM

it's a little... too thematic

I'm not really a fan of poltically related challenges

TrojanByAccident

I'm pretty sure the politics parts are a joke

no need to get worked up

they definitely are

but there's no reason for them

other than to disguise a trivial-esque challenge

It adds flavor and there's not really anything wrong with it.

TrojanByAccident

@Pavel Was about to say that :P

3:56 AM

I'm just envisioning it hitting HNQ and causing a giant fight in the comments.

TrojanByAccident

@quartata If people are stupid enough to start a fight in the comments, they will be flagged

I don't think it's ever as bad as that.

@TrojanByAccident people are stupid enough however >_>

@Pavel we all do stupids, too

That doesn't mean you should provoke it

TrojanByAccident

@ConorO'Brien indeed

3:58 AM

I don't think it was necessary, but I don't see it causing problems.

@Pavel After seeing flag fights in the Bridge I don't think SE is a safe place to have politics involved

We were linked as an example of good behavior, remember?

hmmm... I realize that I upvote a lot of things. Not upvoting something is worse than a downvote ("-5 rep" versus -2 rep), and it's free... I have solved the downvoting dilemma! @Geobits

@Pavel right, but he's concerned about the Q hitting HNQ, which it most certainly will

Also we've deleted less themed challenges before

There was some ascii art thing we downvoted into oblivion in the sandbox

The mathematica answer is twice as long as the python answers

I'm confused

4:05 AM

Happy news:

> California storms add 350 billion gallons to parched reservoirs

At last! :D

TrojanByAccident

lol

lol?

4:23 AM

@ConorO'Brien uhhh...

user image

Making an Online interpreter for RProgN

This time hosted Server-side.

@ConorO'Brien Wouldn't a downvote then be -7?

@ATaco why not just direct people towards TIO?

I do like TIO, but I want to make an Automatic Explainer for it.

And for that, I need my own Interpreter.

You could put that in the debug information.

4:27 AM

That, would work too.

At the very least that was a great test of ClientServer interactions for webpages for myself.

@Geobits ^_^ infallible logic, totally and incontestability correct. /s

Have a flag --explain that prints the explanation to StdErr

0

Q: Convert between balanced bases!

Balanced bases: Balanced bases are essentially the same as normal bases, except that digits can be positive or negative, while in normal bases digits can only be positive. From here on, balanced bases of base b may be represented as balb - so balanced base 4 = bal4. In this challenge's definit...

code-golf math base-conversion

Smart.

The best part is, if it's built into the language anyone who downloads the interpreter can make use of it.

4:35 AM

The main issue with that is I can't yet handle Flags.

Yet

it's not a hard algorithm

4:50 AM

Hello

Hi

How go the buttons

Well.

~abc # Code
~    # Zero Space Segment
 a   # Unknown function.
  b  # Unknown function.
   c # Unknown function.

I haven't fed it english definitions of the functions yet.

@Pavel You're asking me right

If that's the case then it's going well, I fixed it

That's basically the entirety of your interaction with TNB today.

0

Q: Translate WSF to Brainfuck

Challenge Translate the WSF programming language to BF code. Syntax All sequences of whitespace are interpreted as trits (trinary digits) with all other characters ignored/removed. The translation table is below: WHITESPACE = " \t\n" TRINARY = "012" Then, the translated code is padded...

code-golf interpreter brainfuck

4:55 AM

@Pavel True that

@NewMainPosts gadamit

Still, shouldn't be closed

Vote to reopen ^^^^

@Pavel It doesn't seem different from Interpret BF to me

It's not asking to interpret anything

Oh wait that's a different challenge

It's asking to transpile WSF to BF

4:57 AM

Whoops

It's the same one, he just edited it.

Now it's just a simple substitution task

It still shouldn't be closed

Feq userscript is bad, can't reopen challenges

Reload page

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Jan '1711

The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...

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