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19:00
@quartata there is no indexing
>>> f(1231231)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <lambda>
MemoryError
f=lambda n:(4<<n*(3+n))//((4<<2*n)-(2<<n)-1)&~-(2<<n)
Odd.
it's a pure integer direct soluti
but eh 4<<n*(3+n) is rather large
Py_ssize_t is only used for managing sizes of collections I thought
19:00
@ETHproductions that angry comment the guy left you is quite funny
"Please rectify this decision."
@quartata well a big integer is also a collection of words
@orlp 0/10 f(123123) takes 3.8GiB of RAM
@LegionMammal978 I never said it was efficient
And it makes my CPU fan spin
I can hear it through this headset
here's a hint
>>> n = 10**3
>>> n**16//(n*n-n-1)
1001002003005008013021034055089144233377610
19:03
@orlp Oh now I remember that random trivia from Math.SE
1/(n*n-n-1) is the generating function for fibonacci
I've seen proofs for it
and I sort of understand what's going on
but it's still black magic to me
And you're computing it at x = 1000
I see now
1/(1-n-n*n) actually
Because 1/(1-x-x^2) = 1*1 + 1*x + 3*x^2 + ...
yeah, but why that is...
I mean I can prove it
19:07
So if x=1000, it comes out to 1*1 + 1*1000 + 3*1000000 + ...
but the proof doesn't provide insight
@LegionMammal978 yes, and the function I gave above does it in binary
I see now
@orlp Are you referring to the taylor series proof?
@orlp So we're talking about a ~3*10^20 bit big int? :P
@quartata very large ^^
19:08
CMC: some not-too-complicated thing that Mathematica doesn't have a built-in for.
@GabrielBenamy nope
26
Q: The generating function for the Fibonacci numbers

GeeeeeProve that $$1+z+2z^2+3z^3+5z^4+8z^5+13z^6+...=\frac{1}{1-(z+z^2)}$$ The coefficients are Fibonacci numbers, i.e., the sequence $\left\{1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,...\right\}$.

just power series
@betseg Finger painting.
@betseg Anything involving strings
@betseg Boiling water
@El'endiaStarman well, you're not wrong
@TuxCopter neither you are
19:10
@orlp so what is your question?
@GabrielBenamy I have no question
Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates and is introduced by...
@orlp Not everything has a truly intuitive explanation. For example, if you choose two positive integers at random, with no restraints on what they are or how big they can be, the odds that they are coprime (no common factors) is exactly 6/pi^2
@GabrielBenamy is there a geometric interpretation?
you can rephrase the question such that a line drawn from a randomly chosen point on the integer lattice to the origin has exactly 6/pi^2 chance of going through another point
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

obarakonThis code-golfchallenge was inspired by this post. I'm looking for some feedback. Does this seem like a decent enough challenge? I'm still thinking up rules and a title - suggestions are very much welcome. Challenge Take an array of non-negative integers. [1,4,7,2,8,4,6,8] Separate the even ...

@GabrielBenamy I already said that :P
but I mean a geometric interpretation of 6/pi^2
No. It comes from 1/zeta(2)
At least, not that I'm aware of.
The Basel problem is a problem in mathematical analysis with relevance to number theory, first posed by Pietro Mengoli in 1644 and solved by Leonhard Euler in 1734 and read on 5 December 1735 in The Saint Petersburg Academy of Sciences (Russian: Петербургская Академия наук). Since the problem had withstood the attacks of the leading mathematicians of the day, Euler's solution brought him immediate fame when he was twenty-eight. Euler generalised the problem considerably, and his ideas were taken up years later by Bernhard Riemann in his seminal 1859 paper On the Number of Primes Less Than a Given...
there are primitive proofs
not involving the zeta function
That's like saying "we can just multiply a number by itself and not have to worry about squaring".
The Basel problem is "evaluate zeta(2)"
19:22
@GabrielBenamy I'm confused?
at its core, that's exactly what the basel problem asks.
I of course understand that
but the basel problem predates the zeta function
and I linked that article because it contains an elementary proof that the summation = 6/pi^2
fair enough
but I'm not aware of a geometric proof
or rather, a geometric representation of 6/pi^2
some things also make no sense at all -- for example, i^i ~ 0.207
= 1/sqrt(e^pi)
19:25
@GabrielBenamy why doesn't that make sense?
I understand its derivation, but the idea that an imaginary number raised to an imaginary power results in a real number is quite silly
especially since complex exponents are supposed to be rotations in the complex plane
@GabrielBenamy that makes it simpler to explain
but it's not an even multiple of ipi, so it shouldn't rotate around 180 degrees
erm, 90 degrees
and even if it did, it should just be a rotation, not also a scaling
i^i = e^ln(i^i)
this is just restating the base
e^ln(i^i) = e^(i*ln(i))
e^x = i
if you solve this for x we get ln(i)
19:33
since e^(i*x) for angle x rotates 1 around the unit circle
are you saying i ^ i = ln(i) ^ ln(i)
if we rotate pi/2 degrees we get i
so e^x = i has solution x = i*pi/2
ln(i) = i*pi/2
substitute this in
e^(i*i*pi/2)
e^(iipi/2) = e^-pi/2
e^-pi/2 = 1/sqrt(e^pi)
@redstarcoder Not the first time this happens. I'll change the header to avoid this issue in the future.
where's the meta link for things to remember when writing challenges?
Thanks! :)
19:35
@GabrielBenamy no I didn't say that, what makes you think that (sorry for ignoring you, wanted to finish the proof)
I mean, I just get it from e^i pi = -1, so e^(i pi/2) = i
i ^ i = e^(i^2 pi/2) = e^(-pi/2)
nvm, found it, it's "things to avoid"
@orlp I made a mistake in my thought process, ignore it
basically
when you write x^i
you are writing "rotate (1, 0) ln(x) degrees around the unit circle"
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

PythonMasterHot Potato code-challenge For this code-golf challenge you are to play hot potato with two friends (let's name him Dennis and Martin for no apparent reason). The goal here is to see if you can beat both Dennis and Martin. Rules: One player starts with the potato The player holding the potat...

19:42
@orlp D: make it stop!
@flawr 34498988249365825556266066951 / 53045613249379897094598595145
8
@orlp the best way to rickroll
@orlp ಠ_ಠ
@betseg hahaha nice waffle usage
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ well, it's a hat and it has a suit part
@orlp why did you delete your post?
@GabrielBenamy because the people decided it was a duplicate
a key change every couple measures >.<
accidentals are illegal now
19:56
OH GOD
page two ALSO has DOUBLE SHARPS
page three includes irrational microtonalities (e.g. A 1/pi flat)
@GabrielBenamy virtually all music played today already is highly irrational thanks to wohl temperiert
@orlp page five includes light frequencies instead of sound frequencies
20:01
Played in the key of green?
pages 6 and 7 include utilizing cosmic microwave background radiation.
The good thing is, there are only a couple good songs from FFIX, and Kuja's isn't one of them, so there's no need to bother figuring it out :P
@Geobits green sharp major, actually
transitioning to blue flat minor halfway through the page
Meh. Blue flat is just a fancy UV sharp.
There, I made another PC design: pcpartpicker.com/list/YFryHN
This time around, I introduced some rules:
- I can use only 500 dollars, being rated at time of creation.
- To make things easier, no shipping prices or mail-in rebates.
If you plan on adding a decent gfx card later on, you might want to get a P/S with more than 450W output.
- Cases are subjective, so they are free.
@orlp Did you write a program to generate these fractions?
Should I still wait a day in the sandbox if I think my challenge is ready?
20:07
@AndrewLi The time to get it out is whenever the heart feels.
@Geobits And that would quickly get me out of my limited $500 budget.
I'd usually recommend that if you're using the sandbox anyway, two hours isn't enough time to get many eyes on it.
@zyabin101 I know. Just mentioning it, because the power supply is often overlooked.
@AndrewLi I normally put mine in the sandbox and adapt it to any feedback. after all the holes have been fixed, I wait a day, or until I have 2 or more upvotes, to post.
@AndrewLi let it sit 6-8 weeks
@flawr When did you become Jeff ;)
@FlipTack Ok, thanks!
:D
20:11
@Geobits Ok, I'll wait
@zyabin101 You thought the list is over budget, but this rule gets me just inside the 500 $, if I remove the case.
If cases are "free", I'm sure you could find one that goes for several hundred dollars.
Also, with the current setup a better GPU is kinda okay.
If ignoring the budget, GTX 1060 may use up to 120W. Out of CXM's 450W.
Yeah... that's why I said if you're going to add a gfx card, you may need to bump the supply.
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

PavelOutput every string code-golf Your task here is simple. Write a program, in as few bytes as possible, which prints every single possible string. Your program should, given infinite memory, never terminate, however for any given string there should be a finite time to be generated. (that is, a a...

20:22
A 450W would be fine for what you originally listed. It's just not upgrade-friendly.
@DJMcMayhem ?
???
he tripped on the way into the room
No, I meant getting banned for 30 minutes for a reddit link
20:33
Wat how...wat
@DJMcMayhem who did?
Easterly
that's a little... overkill?
20:34
no matter what the link contained
unless it was, like, pornography or something (which I am 105% sure it wasn't)
@ConorO'Brien Really?
@ConorO'Brien Does reddit host that? Wouldn't they get in major trouble?
@DJMcMayhem probably, yeah
@El'endiaStarman no not really, but yes mostly really
s/child//
I mean, without a warning? It's kind of ridiculous.
@DJMcMayhem well, the like modifier helps imply that
20:36
The link in question is something that a lot of people could and would find offensive. And I don't mean the kind of stuff that people get offended at just because.
(For what it's worth, I never saw the flag on it.)
how did my boss ever get so much programming done without me
@El'endiaStarman regardless, in this room I've seen warnings for that type of thing, and I've also seen people in the most extreme cases being kicked for a few minutes (and that was for nearly naked women)
@ConorO'Brien Yeah, the time for warnings is just about past. There have been enough warnings.
but for this particular user?
@ConorO'Brien If it gets flag-deleted, the 30-min thing is automatic. It's not like a kick-mute.
20:38
TBF we don't know if it was a mod or people confirming flags.
^^ ninja
@ConorO'Brien Yep, including this particular user.
If it were a new user, I would warn them.
@El'endiaStarman Hm. I wasn't aware of this
Random question: Does anyone besides alecxe and David have the Maverick hat?
@Geobits well then that's a problem with someone being flag-happy. what ever happened to words? "Hey there, I find that link you posted offensive, please take it down?" "Sure, sorry, I just thought it might be humorous." No, we gotta use that awesome flag button
Unipants 2.0.17 is now compiled! :D
Stay not away from my profile thru Jan 1 to 7, 2017, for the new, 3D, Unipants! o/
20:41
@ConorO'Brien No. That link was straight-up offensive. If I had seen the flag, I'd have confirmed it. Sorry, but I don't see this particular flag as a problem.
That's the entire point of flags.
and I might have flagged the message as well.
But if it was a user in this room, I know _I_ would have talked to them first before flagging their message (or confirming such a flag). With flags, you only look at the end result and you have no idea what the person's motives are. I realize that taking the motives into consideration would probably make moderation a nightmare (caring for people, oh my!). If I also knew the motives, then I would not have the need to consult the person. This is just how I would decide to handle the issue. I suppose, thank goodness I'm not a moderator.
@ConorO'Brien The content of that link wadn't even remotely acceptable. Neither was the suggestion that ATaco's home country might be like that. To stop the speculations: There was only flag on that post. Mine.
@ConorO'Brien I'm sure that the user in question posted the link mainly or solely for amusement, but that does not excuse the fact that they should have known that it would be unacceptable in TNB.
@ConorO'Brien The other issue with moderation is the fact that no matter what you do, somebody will be upset about it ;)
@El'endiaStarman I'm not arguing against the acceptability of the original act. It is most assuredly wrong. I'm arguing against the nature of the punishment.
20:48
Hence, the flag and suspension serve as reinforcement of that. You can say "Hey, don't post stuff like that.", which is like a slap on the wrist, or you can put them in a room, staring at the corner for half an hour, which is a much more effective punishment and gets the point across more effectively.
@flawr according to you I wouldn't need to :P
@orlp the challenge is the other way around
:D
did you see my stereogram?
:)
@El'endiaStarman consider the user: is this the type of user who needs to be put in the corner, or is a metaphorical slap on the wrist sufficient? I'm sure it would be.
O_O next year Portal is turning 10 years old!!!
@ConorO'Brien Look, if you have a kid and they go up to a stranger or acquaintance and cusses them out, using slurs, do you say "Hey, stop that." or do you go for a harsher punishment?
20:49
@flawr stereogram?
I saw the pastebin
but I don't understand it
(I just came back, was playing piano)
Did you record anything new?=)
@ConorO'Brien The content, the action merited the response, regardless of who said/did it.
@El'endiaStarman and that's how moderation works, I know. It's just what I think to be unjust.
We should not display favortism to long-time users.
20:50
@flawr no, trying to learn this
@El'endiaStarman except me <3 im your favourite
@orlp *eyes hammer*
@flawr yes I saw it just now but I don't understand it
@El'endiaStarman it depends on whether or not the kid is reasonable. I know that for myself a simple verbal reprehension would be more than enough to stop me (assuming I do go that far)
@orlp Clearly I'm the favorite. I don't see any other reason people would be so accepting of my downvotes :P
@ConorO'Brien Maybe, but that doesn't mean a lighter punishment is appropriate or that a heavier punishment is inappropriate.
20:52
@El'endiaStarman Is not that which is sufficient proper? And that which is excessive improper?
If a post is offensive, it's going to draw flags. Flags come with a 30-minute timeout. The system doesn't discriminate between good kids and bad kids.
Nor should it.
If anything, a regular user here should have a better idea of what's appropriate here, and the "should have known better" factor comes into play.
@ConorO'Brien The line between sufficient and excessive is, I think, further towards the harsher end than you think it is.
And what Geobits just said. ^^
hmm... so favoritism is bad, but the opposite of favoritism (like, favoritism the other way) is okay.
@flawr oh
now I get it
make it stop
@ConorO'Brien You don't punish a baby for flipping you off. You do punish a ten year old for it.
20:55
@ConorO'Brien I think you're overreacting. It's not that big of deal, and in thirty minutes we'll forget all about it
I'm kinda sorry I brought it up
@DJMcMayhem oh definitely. I'm ticked. I should probably just do something else
peace
@orlp No, I'm not gonna make it stop!
suspension is up, all I have to say is that I deserved it
probably should have thought about it better, oh well
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Thank you for understanding.
eh, I'm still mildly frustrated with the last flag I got (on a rickroll pretending to say jar jar is a sith) but this one I'm fine with
21:01
I don't think I saw that one at all, so I can't say anything about it.
it wasn't here, in the scifi.se chatroom
Oh, that pretty much explains why I didn't see it.
@flawr I love that you really have shit control with your eyes
until you get close to the correct focus for the stereographic effect
It's all a matter of training
21:04
then your subconscious takes over and instantly finetunes that last 1% to get it sharp
@ETHproductions So is my spec not very clear? Can you explain where it is unclear? You should avoid conflicts-of-interest like these where you use your permissions to close another users question over yours. — FUZxxl 14 mins ago
I'm not sure how to respond...
i'm not either
@ETHproductions Hmm, to be honest, you probably should've had other users close that question. Somewhat like how most mods (at least, on C.SE) prefer to avoid handling flags related to their own content or where there might be a conflict of interest.
Hmm, in retrospect, that does sound like a good idea.
But I don't have a time machine, so...
21:18
3
Q: A bit, a nibble or bite?

muddyfishInspired by this challenge Given an integer, output the minimum sized container it can fit in out of bit: 1 nybble: 4 byte: 8 short: 16 int: 32 long: 64 You will not be asked to classify any numbers that are higher than 2**64-1. Testcases: 0 -> 1 1 -> 1 2 -> 4 15 -> 4 16 -> 8 123 -> 8 260 ->...

Does anyone experienced with moderating have suggestions? I've really not had much experience with any type of moderation.
I know nothing about moderation, not even when it comes to eating chocolate.
9
Not that kind of moderation :P
21:36
@flawr yep
@ETHproductions I'd let you borrow mine, but I don't remember when I left it.
although, again, according to you I wouldn't need to :P
3 hours ago, by orlp
from fractions import*;f=lambda s:Fraction(int(s,36),36**len(s)-1)
@HelkaHomba Do you still have this fiddle aroud: jsfiddle.net/CalvinsHobbies/ave6ejyd
It seems to be deleted but I somewhere had a note that I could take some inspiration from that one...
@flawr Is it bad that I look at the parallel and cross ones the same (crossed), yet they both look "right" that way? :P
@Geobits Well if you're using the wrong "view" the depth should be inverted. This looks usually quite strange as the image tells your brain the opposite
21:41
I had an eye doctor tell me years ago that my depth perception is messed up. Maybe my brain is compensating, but both look to have the right z-order when viewed crosswise.
Very strange
Brains are funny like that, so who knows?
Oh there was some kind of test image
Then again, everything looks fine with VR goggles on, too, so I know that parallel works in general for me.
aaah can't find it anymore, sorry
Is anyone else aware of a JS KOTH controller?
@HelkaHomba btw congrats to surpassing 40k rep!!!
5
21:48
π contains the UTF-8 for at positions 256^-43 673 365 to 256^-43 673 367
ILLUMINATEH CONFURMED
@Geobits VR can't really be cross-wise.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I view all the cross and parallel images crosswise, and they seem fine. But VR also seems fine to me, so I guess parallel works also.
It'd be very concerning if parallel didn't work since that's how our eyes and brains function normally.
Sure :P
@El'endiaStarman you cannot say that?
It's neither parallel nor cross how our eyes/brain works!
21:51
@El'endiaStarman But like I said, a doctor told me once I was messed up in that department.
We usually look at the same point in space with both eyes
Hmm. I see your point.
Actually, what he told me was "you have no depth perception". So I'm not sure what to think, since as far as I can tell, I clearly do.
I mean we use parallel/cross vision just to superpose two seperate images
@Geobits This one doesn't seem weird to you?
21:54
@Geobits Which direction is this "grid" turning? :) imgur.com/PmET9Ud
@El'endiaStarman Nope.
@flawr Uhhh.... it shifts back and forth, kinda like that "which direction is the train going?" video.
@Geobits Well for crossview it should rotate counter clockwise
@Geobits I'll bet you get all your depth perception from things other than binocular vision.
@flawr Yeah. I can change the direction by thinking about it, though.
Stuff like apparent size of objects, brightness, intensity of color, etc.
21:57
@El'endiaStarman Possibly. I try not to think about it too much. I've never had an issue with it.
It's not like I drive into things or get hit in the face by baseballs or anything.
@flawr it changed to jsfiddle.net/HelkaHomba/ave6ejyd since I changed my username
And thanks!
@HelkaHomba great thanks, I think I've asked you before a while back, it's because I think I'm gonna try to use it for another koth
They just told me I couldn't be a pilot because of it. Which I never wanted to be, so.
But how did you ever find out?
Part of the standard eye exam when joining the military.
They do that, colorblindness, etc.
22:00
I didn't have to do any of that
Huh. Maybe it's changed. I did mine in 2001.
But perhaps if you were to become pilot or so you'd get other exams
@Geobits maybe it's in another country:)
There are other countries???
well some people say
it's always nice when you can shave 20+ lines of code from existing software because you're like "you know you can do this with a loop, right?"
22:02
The test we did was a few plates of grids of circles. You were supposed to look at them and decide which one was raised.
0
Q: Optimal cheating at BINGO

mbomb007You're sick of other players smugly announcing "BINGO" and walking triumphantly past you to claim their prize. This time it will be different. You bribed the caller to give you the BINGO calls ahead of time, in the order they will be called. Now you just need to create a BINGO board that will win...

0
Q: Ruby on Rails (or Trackety Track)

GarethYou are Ruby, a railway engineer. Your task is to lay track in any given valley such that it visits every station (M). The amount of track laid is not important, but it must be laid in one continuous path which starts and ends at the valley entrance/exit point (>) and does not, at any point cross...

@GabrielBenamy Maybe they were loop unroilling
I don't think I've ever seen loop unrolling used in business software in a good way, so it depends on what it is.
@HelkaHomba Why isn't there a single semicolon??
I just generalized explicit code
22:06
@flawr JS doesn't require them, like Python (except people get fussy when JS doesn't have semicolons or when Python does).
It doesn't require indentation either :P
O_o TIL
@Geobits JS or pyhton?
@Geobits hush, you
@flawr technically both, if you're not a wuss
22:08
ok next question: why can't I copy from jsfiddle?
ok, seems to be a firefox issue AGAIN
damn firefox, you used to be my favourite browser...
It was my favorite for a while. That was long ago, in another life.
I still dislike all the other browsers I've tried...
Even Chrome?
Yep
I love the way you could customize firefox
And I haven't found a way to do that in those other browsers
I use Firefox for most things, but Chrome for PPCG (basically because I have JavaScript disabled for everyday browsing; it makes most sites worse)
actually, regular browsing of Stack Exchange is better without JavaScript than with, but unfortunately you need it to do any sort of update to the site
22:16
But if anyone knows how to do that in other browsers please let me know
@HelkaHomba May I ask you soem stuff about your koth controlller?
The goal would be implementing this challenge
do you know what would be fun? Going to a mall and setting up a LAN (my computer has it builtin) network named "AT&T WI-FI", opening up wireshark and just watching all the http:// data slip through.
AT&T phones will automatically connect to networks named AT&T WI-FI, even if it's clearly fake.
@flawr Only soem stuff
I'm intersted in gathering the submissions
Who goes first in tictactoe normally?
Noughts or crosses?
X
Crosses
22:23
Thanks
So far I've found out that loadAnswers seems to be doing this job. But what is actually saved in answers?
@flawr I believe answers holds the contents of the items JSON list you get when loadPage is called. e.g. I manually filled in some params to get api.stackexchange.com/2.2/questions/50690/…
Which looks better here jsonprettyprint.com
Ah ok thanks!
So you can use answers[0].body to get the whole body of the first answer, for example
22:53
I think I know too little JS/HTML in order to do that =/
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

FlipTackCompress a Tic-Tac-Toe board code-challenge compression Preface Let us think of a Tic-Tac-Toe board as a 0-indexed matrix: image coming soon! With each square assigned to a coordinate, we can represent any Tic-Tac-Toe game as a list of moves: X: Take (1, 0) O: Take (1, 1) X: Take (2, 0) O...

Perhpas I could use TIO
@ConorO'Brien I may need help testing my FALSE interpreter in Python.
There aren't many examples, but it's also simply a pain.

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