The Nineteenth Byte

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16:07

7

PPCG user and elected mod, @Dennis just became the second ever user to earn over 100k rep! This is a totally original idea, that I did not get from anybody else, but let's make a challenge based of his user ID, 12012. Looking at it, you'll notice that there are two distinct "sections" to his ...

TùxCräftîñg

-1 not enough jQuery — Awal Garg Sep 26 at 17:50

it's the most updooted comment o____________O

El'endia Starman

@betseg That would make each second 0.864 times as long as they are currently.

DJMcMayhem

Wow, 11 points in 30 minutes. That's got to be a record for me

El'endia Starman

@orlp That is super cool.

betseg

@El'endiaStarman you mean 1.15(740) times longer?

El'endia Starman

16:21

@betseg No. A day is currently 86,400 seconds (ignoring the minor variations and corrections), and your proposal would make them 100,000 seconds.

betseg

Ah right sorry

Martin Ender

@Dennis Congratulations on your 100k! :) Now let us rule PPCG together as father and son!

22

(or something)

Dennis

@Sherlock9 @Adnan @Lynn @MartinEnder Thanks! :)

El'endia Starman

@Dennis Can I congratulate you on behalf of all the other PPCGers, and thus get thousands of thanks in return? :P

muddyfish

^ - congrats

quartata

16:27

Woot!

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman Thank you 42,021 times. :P

quartata

@Mego I always considered Google to be basically the modern equivalent of Bell Labs

CMC: Find a mainstream language that is actually good that was originally designed by more than 3 people

The only two I've found so far are C# and Erlang, and I consider them exceptions (considering the number of languages designed by more than 3 that are super bad)

Erlang was such a specific use case and C# was basically just based on Java which in turn was designed by one person

TùxCräftîñg

cheddar?

quartata

1 person, Downgoat

zyabin101

@quartata Mars Ultor?

TùxCräftîñg

16:32

ASCII-only and Conor also co-designed cheddar

zyabin101

That makes 2 persons.

quartata

I'm talking about design not implementation

Downgoat created the design goals he wanted for it long before

TimmyD

@quartata F# ?

quartata

@TimmyD Ah, good one. All the sharps qualify, really

Interesting.

Martin Ender

@quartata C# is better than Java though, so that should give it some credit?

quartata

16:33

Oh, sure. I'm not saying it's bad just that a lot of the design came from Java

Martin Ender

right, but I mean the multi-person team improved on the single-person design

Sp3000

@quartata I'm going to go with... Julia?

quartata

I thought Julia was 2 people?

Martin Ender

What about Go and Rust? I don't know either really, so I can't say how good they really all, whether you'd call them mainstream and how many people actually worked on their design.

Sp3000

Dunno, Wiki lists 4

quartata

16:35

@MartinEnder Go is super bad IMO. It's actually why I thought of this

TùxCräftîñg

ಠ_ಠ

Martin Ender

close call, Lua (3 designers, not more than 3)

quartata

I was thinking about why Go and Dart were bad and it occurred to me that I couldn't really name a language developed by a large team that was good

@MartinEnder Haskell was also 3 originally I think which was why I made it more than 3

@Sp3000 Huh, close...

I still think it fits with the "very small team" though

El'endia Starman

Pytek has like 1.5 designers. :P I'm the main designer, but quartata contributes a lot too.

quartata

@MartinEnder A lot of this was implementation improvements IMO

El'endia Starman

16:38

Well, maybe 1.75 designers.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman And the reason why it's good so far is because we both have very similar focuses. I think it starts to break down for large teams because everyone injects something different

That was the conclusion I came to after thinking about it at least lol

Geobits

Hmm. I'm stumped. Trying to golf this thing down and can't figure out why m=m<0&l>=d?t:m; t=d<l?t+d:d; l=d<l|n>9?d:l; is not equivalent to if(d<l){l=d;t+=d;}else{m=m<0?t:m;l=n>9?d:l;t=d;}

El'endia Starman

@quartata Yeah, that sounds about right.

quartata

"Why is it that Google is good at writing everything but programming languages"

Martin Ender

@Geobits is everything integers?

Geobits

16:40

I'm sure it's something simple, but I'm just not seeing it.

@MartinEnder Yes, all ints

Martin Ender

the result of m is irrelevant for d<l or does m need to be unchanged?

Geobits

m should be unchanged if d<l

quartata

@orlp Damn

Martin Ender

@Geobits I think your l>=d looks wrong

should probably be either l>d or l<=d

Sp3000

Depending on who you ask... maybe Racket?

DJMcMayhem

16:42

@MartinEnder Eh, why not? Out of all the benevolent dictators I could pick, I'd choose you guys. :P

Geobits

@MartinEnder Oh jeez. I knew it was something basic. Thanks!

Martin Ender

no problem :)

quartata

@Sp3000 Racket is a better implementation of the design goals of Scheme

Martin Ender

I'm currently waiting for Visual Studio to uninstall, so I didn't have anything better to do anyway :D

quartata

which was 2 people

mınxomaτ

16:44

if (usp == "141"
      || usp == "251"
      || usp == "140"
      || usp == "171"
      || usp == "250"
      || usp == "249")

This code runs in a loop. Is there some clever way in JS to shorten this, whilst keeping the short-circuit execution order?

quartata

Switch with fall-through?

Hmm that wouldn't short-circuit would it

unless JS optimizes it

mınxomaτ

I can't rely on that.

We are talking IE11 here :/

quartata

I think the answer is no then

Martin Ender

@mınxomaτ is this for code golf or actual code? (which would determine the obscurity of solutions I'd look for...)

ETHproductions

@mınxomaτ I've been looking for an answer to that question for 3 years

mınxomaτ

16:46

@MartinEnder prod, but obscure is fine.

For a bookmarklet to be precise.

quartata

Oh, wait. Does in work with arrays in ES5?

Or is that an ES6 thing

El'endia Starman

Hmm, I wonder if Python short-circuits in...

ETHproductions

@quartata I think it's ES5... but...

quartata

@El'endiaStarman I can't imagine any sane implementation not doing it

@ETHproductions You could always do .indexOf I guess

ETHproductions

> 1 in [3, 4, 5]
< true
> 1 in [1]
< false

quartata

16:48

@ETHproductions Ah, so it's indexes

ETHproductions

It checks if the array has property 1

quartata

Because they're properties. How stupid

ETHproductions

yep.

But yeah, ["141", "251", "140", "171", "250", "249"].indexOf(isp) !== -1 might work better.

El'endia Starman

@quartata Actually, it's kinda impossible to test in Python. Lists are evaluated before in is checked.

mınxomaτ

@ETHproductions Well, ~ can replace the !== -1

El'endia Starman

16:50

Though maybe if I tried testing with [1]+[0]*1000000...

ETHproductions

Of course, Firefox 1.5 and below don't support .indexOf()

quartata

@ETHproductions How on earth

ETHproductions

But who would use Firefox 1.5 nowadays? :P

quartata

> added support for restricted words as properties

why

ETHproductions

shrug

I guess they had some people whining that they needed a property called if or something

Geobits

16:53

That kind of whining can be dealt with using a slingshot though.

quartata

or a hammer

ETHproductions

@Geobits I tried that once, but I ended up having to buy a new computer

never again

Geobits

Reminds me of the time I set up a facebook account for my goldfish. It was an unmitigated disaster.

mınxomaτ

if(~["141","251","140","171","250","249"].indexOf(usp))window.location=eurl

Eh, good enough.

quartata

quality

ETHproductions

16:56

@Geobits Now I have to know why your goldfish needed a facebook account

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

CMC: Figure out where http://enwp.org/WP:SI redirects to without visiting it

Geobits

@ETHproductions You tell me why anyone needs one, then I'll get back to you.

quartata

@mınxomaτ Are you sure this isn't code golf

mınxomaτ

Bookmarklets are basically code golf.

quartata

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ Obviously a Wikipedia policy page. Lemme try to remember, it's been so long....

Oh, right!

Sockpuppets

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

16:57

yup

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations

This page is for requesting that we investigate whether two or more Wikipedia accounts are being abusively operated by the same person. Before opening an investigation, you need good reason to suspect sock puppetry. Evidence is required. When you open the investigation, you must immediately provide evidence that the suspected sock puppets are connected. The evidence will need to include diffs of edits that suggest the accounts are connected. (This requirement is waived if the edits in question are deleted; in this case just provide the names of the articles that both have been editing.) You must...

ETHproductions

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ I tried using view-source:, but that just redirected me to the source for the Wikipedia policy page

Geobits

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ CMC: Determine whether anyone cheated on that CMC

quartata

I couldn't remember at first because usually people refer to it as WP:SPI

betseg

@Geobits Yes.

Did i win?

Geobits

Nope. I don't believe you.

betseg

16:59

@Geobits ;_;

Geobits

You don't seem like the cheating type is all :P

And nobody else around here would either, that's for sure ;)

ETHproductions

Any last input on this sandboxed challenge? I think it's about ready to post

El'endia Starman

Something I've been mulling over recently: classifying and/or creating a taxonomy of game mechanics. I think this blog post took a good stab at it, but I think I can do better, in part by seeking to go all the way to the very bedrock. This bedrock is, in my opinion, that games are performing actions in a space. Thoughts?

zyabin101

> This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the title Template:Disambiguation‌.

betseg

@ETHproductions ELEMENOPEE

El'endia Starman

17:01

I'm also considering making a chat room to talk about that, but mostly only if others are interested in really boiling down and differentiating the core elements of game mechanics.

zyabin101

Putting the page name in a template somewhere ridicules.

Martin Ender

@El'endiaStarman without having read that post, it sounds like a fun project, and reducing it to a formalised core sounds like an interesting idea :)

zyabin101

@betseg ?

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

AAAAAA

ETHproductions

The one thing I'm not sure about is if it will get downvoted or closed as too trivial, or closed as a duplicate. The kolmogorov-complexity challenge space is already pretty full

Geobits

17:04

@El'endiaStarman What does "in a space" mean? If we're playing HiLo (guess the number), is that a space?

betseg

@zyabin101 you know that song?

zyabin101

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ What's it? :3

ETHproductions

@ETHproductions Then again, several respected users have commented that they think the challenge is good, so I guess I'll just have to trust them...

Geobits

2 hours ago, by orlp

really cool algorithm

@ETHproductions I don't see the appeal in it personally, but I feel the same way about many [kol-com].

betseg

zee or zed?

Geobits

17:10

There is no zed. There is only zi.

Fatalize

Zed > Zi

Geobits

Besides, the song doesn't rhyme with zed unless you also say ved for V.

Downgoat

can anyone here french? :3

11 hours ago, by Downgoat

This is a bit of a homework question but when refering to the verb "etre" itself in french, do I use masculine or feminine form of ce?

El'endia Starman

@Geobits The space there are the possible numbers, and the action is guessing it.

Hmm. Feedback also needs to be part of the formula.

Geobits

Fair enough. I thought that's what you were going for, but I wanted to make sure.

zyabin101

17:13

CMC: Name the template that the url enwp.org/T:DAB refers to without entering it.

Geobits

No

Martin Ender

@Geobits you don't? D:

zyabin101

@Downgoat We previously had the "Le Dix-Neuvieme Byte", but it's frozen.

Downgoat

Also I have a question about our policy for what counts as programming languages

Fatalize

@Downgoat I don't understand your question

Downgoat

17:15

The most upvoted answer says:

> Support a representation of natural numbers and of tuples. (We're talking about languages rather than implementations, so we will leave to one side the issue of type widths).

ETHproductions

@MartinEnder back in my grandfather's day, they pronounced G and P "jed" and "ped"

Geobits

@MartinEnder Not normally. Every now and and then I spell my name out ged ed od bed id ted sed though, so I guess that counts.

Downgoat

but most languages just add primality checking and adding and that cuts it?

Geobits

I guess you could call it Pig British.

Downgoat

@Fatalize I want to say "this is etre" for french HW. Not sure if i need to use c'est etre or ceci est etre or cela est etre.

betseg

17:17

@zyabin101 lol

Fatalize

@Downgoat "C'est le verbe être" is the most natural way

Downgoat

oh ok

then this will not fit into song

betseg

lol

Fatalize

wat

Geobits

Your homework is to write a song in French?

DJMcMayhem

17:18

@El'endiaStarman I love game design, and talking about it. If you were to make a chat room about game design, I would happily chat in there

Geobits

^ me too

Fatalize

"c'est l'verb'être" with contractions to reduce syllables

Downgoat

@Geobits I have to write song about verbs with être in passe compmose.

ETHproductions

Would "Now I know my ABCs, won't you come and golf with me?" be a better title than "Do you know your ABCs?" (referring to this challenge again)

It's a little long

DJMcMayhem

I think it's hilarious that our chat culture is big enough to create side rooms that would be the main room on a different site just because there are enough users interested in X topic

downrep_nation

17:19

:)

betseg

@downrep_nation hi!

Fatalize

@Downgoat Pretty ridiculous assignment

Downgoat

ikr

downrep_nation

hey there ;)

Geobits

@DJMcMayhem I know, right? My room list has been slowly creeping up in size lately.

Downgoat

17:20

@Downgoat pls. I have on-topic question about site

Geobits

But you asked it in the middle of the French lesson :P

Downgoat

:|

TùxCräftîñg

@downrep_nation hi

betseg

i need 3 updoots until 1337 rep

zyabin101

@betseg downvote

Geobits

17:21

-1 for updoot

zyabin101

;)

betseg

@zyabin101 will downgoat your answers until i reach 1297 :p

Geobits

Good luck not getting that reverted ;)

ETHproductions

mockup

I suppose it's not too too long

zyabin101

@betseg I joked :P

Downgoat

17:23

@ETHproductions what is this?

@ETHproductions I think the latter is best, I like the longer one but it's pretty long

ETHproductions

@Downgoat My challenge (I might change the name)

betseg

@zyabin101 see? stepping back

zyabin101

@ETHproductions dream, baby.

ETHproductions

@zyabin101 haha :P I only picked that slot because it was right next to the other long challenge name

and it was already kolmogorov-complexity

zyabin101

51 answer - 30 upvotes - 3k viewers

Geobits

17:25

@ETHproductions Is that the userscript design? I never knew the tags looked so... eye-grabbing.

ETHproductions

@Geobits Yup. Why, is it not enough to make your eyes hurt? If so, we're not doing our job

Downgoat

@Geobits you'll get used to them :P

I couldn't find any better color-combo

Geobits

The bright green makes the text anti-alias a bit oddly, at least in that screenshot.

And, you know, it's bright :P

ETHproductions

Strawpoll

betseg

challange idea: create random proper bf code

ETHproductions

17:29

@betseg -[+++<<->+]++.

Geobits

:/

betseg

@ETHproductions ...using a programming language

ETHproductions

@Geobits I saw TIO handles plurality of character-count correctly, that's a nice feature

Geobits

@betseg return"-[+++<<->+]++";

Downgoat

Dennis

17:32

1 character(s)

Downgoat

@Geobits is that better ^^

ETHproductions

Any last votes? @Downgoat (if you haven't voted)

Dennis

> Made my English gooder

3

lol

Geobits

@Downgoat It's hard to tell super-zoomed like that. It'd have to be on the page layout to know for sure.

betseg

> random

plz

Dennis

17:33

I'm confused. How do I vote for being a robot?

Geobits

@Dennis Don't do that. We don't want them to have an accurate count before the revolution.

ETHproductions

@Dennis strawpoll.me/11334439

Dennis

+1 for including the CAPTCHA in that one too.

zyabin101

I can't program from my phone so I kinda skip the party. :{

mınxomaτ

How do I force a file download from a link in pure JS? All SO posts I find are about HTML elements / forms. Is there a way to do this without creating an element and clicking it?

DJMcMayhem

17:35

@Dennis I'm glad it made someone laugh. I usually make my self-edit summaries pretty random and silly

A common one I use is "Hurr-Durr, I done a typo"

ETHproductions

Looks like the longer one won, Juan

> The question you're asking appears subjective and is likely to be closed.

betseg

Hurr Durr I'ma Sheep

name of Linux 4.0.0

Downgoat

@Geobits

Geobits

@ETHproductions Seems like it won five to two, too.

ETHproductions

did you vote just so you could say that? :P

Geobits

17:39

@Downgoat Much better imo

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem random comments is what random does best

TùxCräftîñg

+1 wow, interesting challenge — Chatgoat Jan 19 at 1:18

rofl

Geobits

@ETHproductions I definitely didn't turn my mobile wifi off so I could get around the IP-check to vote again.

DJMcMayhem

@Dennis Wow, I need to step up my game, haha

BTW, how do you like your challenge?

ETHproductions

@DJMcMayhem That's nothing...

Dennis

17:41

It's nice. :) Too bad someone beat me to the Jelly answer. :P

DJMcMayhem

Maybe you should do a hexagony answer. Those are always well received

Adnan

hexagony = automatic rip

Dennis

RIP Martin

Adnan

hahahaha

DJMcMayhem

I liked the retina answer. Too bad it got deleted

Dennis

17:43

Haven't quite wrapped my head around Hexagony yet. I should probably start with an easier 2D language.

Adnan

Befunge is quite easy to understand

DJMcMayhem

Cubix looks really cool

Dennis

Btw @ETH, do all these strawpolls wrt the ABC's challenge mean we should expect it soon?

ETHproductions

Posting it now, unless anyone has any objections

(and there was only one, afaicr)

DJMcMayhem

I think it looks great

Geobits

17:45

I object!

ETHproductions

Your vote doesn't count :P

Downgoat

@ETHproductions yes, I need to fix array -> string casting in cheddar

DJMcMayhem

My only objection is that I haven't added a way to insert the whole alphabet in V yet

ETHproductions

You both have 5 minutes ;P

Downgoat

;_;

ETHproductions

17:46

But seriously, how long do you think it will take each of you to implement those things?

TùxCräftîñg

:D:D:D the logy interpreter work

Downgoat

@ETHproductions about 5-10 minutes (assuming IDE loads in time and node does not do a stupid)

Geobits

Neither would really be competing anyway. You can't add features or fix things just based on sandbox entries either imo.

TùxCräftîñg

(well, i still need to make the clauses working, but :D)

ETHproductions

@Geobits array -> string casting doesn't seem challenge-specific

TimmyD

17:47

Welcome to the Enterprise. I'm Chief Engineer Geordi La Forge. I'll be your
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■■■
(⌐■■■)
Super Visor.
♫YEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHH!♫

Downgoat

@Geobits Well this isn't specific to the challenge. It's in the spec if you'd like a link

DJMcMayhem

@ETHproductions Not very long. :P

TimmyD

(source: at-tjhansen on twitter)

Adnan

@DJMcMayhem hmmmm

Downgoat

github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheddar/blob/release-1.0.0/src/stdlib/…

Geobits

17:48

I'm just saying. A challenge author giving you time to fix/add it isn't fair to others who happen to not be in chat imo.

zyabin101

@ETHproductions ?!

Downgoat

@Geobits :/ ok true

Yodle

@Geobits Oh I know, I specified that you can print any valid local time for countries that have more than one timezone

Downgoat

@ETHproductions Geobits is right. giving me extra time to fix is unfair

ETHproductions

yeah...

Posting it now then

DJMcMayhem

17:49

I don't care if it is competing or not, so I'll just follow the general advice/opinions of you folks in chat

ETHproductions

@DJMcMayhem Yeah, I think it would be fair to mark your V answer as non-competing

Posted

DJMcMayhem

No porbs. @Dennis could to pull V?

Dennis

> Already up-to-date.

Did you forget to push?

DJMcMayhem

No, I committed on github

Adnan

@Dennis Could you please pull 05AB1E?

Dennis

17:55

@DJMcMayhem Weird. Does the change work?

DJMcMayhem

What's the most recent commit you have?

@Dennis no, it does not

Dennis

@Adnan Done.

Adnan

Thanks :)

Dennis

$ tioupd V
From github.com/DJMcMayhem/V
   959a3d2..388c539  master     -> origin/master
Already up-to-date.

@DJMcMayhem ^ Not really sure what's going on.

DJMcMayhem

That's weird, you have the latest change. It is a little cheap anyway, and I haven't tested it. I'll just do a vim answer

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