The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

20:00

I love how the appointment of the ROs kicked off a whole new wave of noise

muddyfish

@ColdGolf It's not that bad is it?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

yup

Sherlock9

Well, we were saying possible ideas. I said "somebody mentioned Arnold's cat map" and I said who

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oh, okay.

quartata

Still definitely a good thing, thank you @Dennis

ColdGolf

20:00

@muddyfish Multiple edits it becomes bad.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Sherlock9 I mentioned the decision trees, and thought people were saying that was a dupe.

muddyfish

bye!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

bye! (to muddyfish)

ColdGolf

Bye MuddyFish!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

kk, i gtg back to eating. bai!

i'll be back in a bit

ColdGolf

20:02

Enjoy your tamale.

Whatever tamale is.

El'endia Starman

It seems to me like your specialty is disagreeing with people about all manner of things. In fact, I'll also point out that you seem to be rather antagonistic towards everyone. You like to challenge decisions made and opinions expressed by others, or you like to tell others what they should or must do.

In almost all of this, you do so with language that is neutral at best and hostile at worst. This community is by and large based around positive sentiments, which you are not contributing towards. Thus far, we have tolerated you, to put it mildly. I think that the tolerance of most people h…

10

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf a really good food

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It's not better than my pizza, or is it?

I just googled it, this tamale looks cool...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

i eat both, but pizza is generally better

there are leftover tamales right now though, eating those

Mitch Schwartz

ColdGolf's hostility is bad, but other people's hostility toward him is ok

Sherlock9

20:05

A note: en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tamal

@MitchSchwartz It is not either

ColdGolf

@Sherlock9 Hey, "tamale" is right too.

Sherlock9

We need to work on positivity all around here

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Sherlock9

Yeah, but I just wanted to mention that tamal is the original word

El'endia Starman

@MitchSchwartz Yeah, it's not great that people have responded in hostility, but it probably is worthwhile to note that it's in response. It's natural to react to hostility with hostility.

ColdGolf

20:07

@El'endiaStarman It's natural, but it's bad. Does anybody care, though?

Anyways

Sherlock9

Yes, I do

ColdGolf

Turns out "tamale" is also called "humita", TIL.

Theo

I actually do care, thank you very much

DJMcMayhem

I changed my mind. I think I'm going to come back tomorrow, rather than in an hour.

ColdGolf

@DJMcMayhem What ya gonna do tomorrow?

El'endia Starman

20:09

@DJMcMayhem ....that may be a good idea. Of course, you can always watch the transcript.

trichoplax

@DJMcMayhem Anything we can change to change your mind...?

Sherlock9

On positivity strawpoll.me/11086450

ColdGolf

Ninja'd

On an unrelated note, more people voted for Alliance than Horde! YAAAS!

Sherlock9

WoW!

ColdGolf

If you're not playing the game, you're missing out.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

20:12

@ColdGolf which game?

DJMcMayhem

@El'endiaStarman There's nothing worth watching in transcript. It's a minor tiny little bit of antagonizing users, and a whole crapton of complaining. Not that I haven't been complaining also, it's just that there's no longer any discussion in here. We've shifted to a one track mind, where no matter where the topic goes, it always comes back full circle to talking about the state of the room and whatever cold golf is or isn't doing

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ WoW

Sherlock9

I have neither the money nor the time, unfortunately

ColdGolf

@Sherlock9 Then get the money from CS:GO trading.

DJMcMayhem

Ironically, that message is contributing to the same thing I'm complaining about

Sherlock9

20:13

Ditto, unfortunately

El'endia Starman

@DJMcMayhem That's certainly how it seems at the moment. It'll quiet down sooner or later.

Sherlock9

I'm working towards sooner :)

Martin Ender

@ColdGolf Could you at least try to say anything on topic and constructive once in a while?

Sherlock9

It's uphill

ColdGolf

@Sherlock9 Yeah, WoW > LoL

DJMcMayhem

20:14

:31933070 That's one of the rudest things I've ever read from you.

Sherlock9

Don't play LoL either

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DJMcMayhem new topic: prefix vs infix for golfing?

ColdGolf

@Sherlock9 Either of them is good.

Theo

@ColdGolf Jesus christ man

DJMcMayhem

And yet if I flag it, it will be declined because it's not vulgar or spam

Sherlock9

20:15

They are, but they aren't what I'm looking for in gaming

I'm looking for story usually

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

More puzzling?

DJMcMayhem

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ do you mean prefix vs postfix?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

No

ColdGolf

@Sherlock9 Story is Zelda.

Sherlock9

+35 or 53+

Story is everywhere

El'endia Starman

20:16

Isn't Jelly (and J, APL, etc) basically infix?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

+34 vs 3+4

ColdGolf

@Sherlock9 Yes, but Zelda has the best stories.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Yeah, afaik

mbomb007

@ColdGolf I play LoL

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

Im so happy for the new room owners

ColdGolf

20:16

@mbomb007 WoW > LoL, and I don't even have time to say why.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ColdGolf cough chronotrigger cough

Sherlock9

Inside has a good story, Cave Story has a good story

Martin Ender

Alright, I think you need a break.

5

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

I can't star anything

I need to stop wasting my star votes

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Lol

Sherlock9

20:17

Zelda, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound and Undertale have good stories

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Yeah

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman Jelly is infix for execution, but has a postfix parser. It's a rather weird feature of an otherwise normal language.

DJMcMayhem

@Sherlock9 I love undertale

DLosc

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I'm partial to infix--it's how I think, and (though I do like Lisp) prefix is usually too much mental contortionism. Thus why Pip is infix.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

> normal

Sherlock9

20:18

Me too. I kept putting off finishing it though

DJMcMayhem

I think it's the only game I've beaten 3+ times

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DLosc oh, cool

Sherlock9

Still technically haven't haha

mbomb007

DJMcMayhem

@Sherlock9 where are you in the story?

mbomb007

20:18

Really?

Sherlock9

@DJMcMayhem Between the very last fight and leaving

ColdGolf

@mbomb007 Riot Games is a money grabbing studio. Nuff' said.

DLosc

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Not that it usually wins any challenges these days, but I still enjoy it.

Mitch Schwartz

Oh cool I got to see a deleted message before it got deleted

mbomb007

@ColdGolf LoL is the free game. Nice joke.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

20:19

Yeah, I like infix a bit better also.

DJMcMayhem

@Sherlock9 the last fight with whom? There's like 4 final bosses haha

Sherlock9

I want to set aside block of several hours go explore the underground before I leave

mbomb007

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I prefer postfix.

Sherlock9

In True Pacifist

DJMcMayhem

Oh, OK

ColdGolf

20:20

@mbomb007 LoL has useless cosmetic items.

Sherlock9

@DJMcMayhem Very true haha

ColdGolf

WoW is paid because is deserves to be.

DJMcMayhem

Genocide is really fun but insanely hard

Sherlock9

And depressing. Not even going to try it myself

mbomb007

@ColdGolf Like what? If you can see it, and other players see it, then it's not useless. It's cosmetic.

DJMcMayhem

20:22

I actually need to go for real (not rage-quitting chat)

Sherlock9

I am planning to watch the Grumps play Pacifist and Genocide because I have seen clips and they're great

@DJMcMayhem Alright, see you later

ColdGolf

@mbomb007 Cosmetic = Money grab

Cosmetic items are good because the actual game can be played to the highest levels without paying a cent, but they are useless money grabs.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

cough tf2 cough

mbomb007

@ColdGolf If you actually played LoL, maybe you'd know how much easier it is to get skins for free.

ColdGolf

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ tf2 is the same thing. I don't play tf2.

mbomb007

20:24

They changed it recently.

ColdGolf

@mbomb007 Legally?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

exactly, it's cosmetic land

Sherlock9

Well, it's a design philosophy. Let the whole game be free, but add some items so we can actually make money haha

ColdGolf

@Sherlock9 Yes, it works for apps, not games.

Example: Discord.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@ColdGolf why do you continue on, after you know of all the disagreements. REally, we have high quality discussion here about interesting things, and you come in, and managed to disrupt the flow so much that we had to appoint 5 additional room owners. Your disruption was so great, it managed to spur on additional and prompt change to tnb. THis change was hardly needed.

mbomb007

20:25

@ColdGolf Yeah... they added a crafting center where you craft them with materials gained by doing well in-game.

ColdGolf

@RohanJhunjhunwala Can we stop meta arguing about TNB and actually post useful things in it?

Sherlock9

I respect that idea though. No ridiculous half-finished games with DLC fixing stuff

mbomb007

@ColdGolf Well that's ironic, coming from you, lol.

El'endia Starman

@ColdGolf Yes, we can, and I'd love to! Please, lead the way!

ColdGolf

@mbomb007 Yeah, work real hard just to not spend a dollar on a fancy in-game shirt.

mbomb007

20:26

@ColdGolf League doesn't have in-game shirts.

ColdGolf

WoW is paid because the developers need to get paid too, not because Bllizard just wants lots of money.

quartata

Then why is it a subscription

mbomb007

@ColdGolf Okay, now I know you're just full of BS. Riot devs need to be paid, too.

Sherlock9

And League has another way to do that, because they can't make new content as easily.

mbomb007

Go spend some time code-golfing, like your name says. Get some rep.

Nathan Merrill

20:27

Dota 2 is fully funded by cosmetics

quartata

Also, some people like cosmetics and are willing to pay for them. I see nothing wrong with offering them

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@mbomb007 I would star your witty remark, but I cant why is there a star limit???!!

Theo

Besides, just be happy somebody buys the cosmetics, cuz it means you don't have to pay to play

Sherlock9

@RohanJhunjhunwala To prevent a Star Bomba

mbomb007

@ColdGolf If you call them money-grabbers, then why are they optional and also available for free by working hard? If you say that, it means you really really want them. As in, they are awesome.

Lynn

20:29

This “ignore” thing is working out well.

5

Nathan Merrill

lol

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@LeakyNun @anyone-who-cares I found an interesting approach to a quine. (Although it does not seem to shorten the quine perhaps you can perform some wizardry to imrpve my approach). (I tried to get a define to remove all of the set commands)

xnor

@Lynn garfieldminusgarfield.net

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

3

A: Golf you a quine for great good!

S.I.L.O.S, 3057 bytes A = 99 def S set S A 112 A + 1 S A 114 A + 1 S A 105 A + 1 S A 110 A + 1 S A 116 A + 1 S A 76 A + 1 S A 105 A + 1 S A 110 A + 1 S A 101 A + 1 S A 32 A + 1 S A 65 A + 1 S A 32 A + 1 S A 61 A + 1 S A 32 A + 1 S A 57 A + 1 S A 57 A + 1 S A 10 A + 1 S A 72 A + 1 S A 32 A + 1 S...

Nathan Merrill

@xnor oh man, the latest one is hilarious

Lynn

20:30

@xnor :D yes, exactly!!

quartata

I fuckin love Garfield Minus Garfield

mbomb007

@xnor I like these.

quartata

Even though I hate the actual comic. Funny how that works

trichoplax

@ColdGolf you give the impression of wanting an argument, and escalating disagreements by giving non-answers that cumulatively annoy people. Even if this impression is inaccurate, you will still get kicked out of the room for it, so I recommend making an effort to avoid giving this impression.

3

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

^

Please I ask in the most heartfelt way, Leave tnb.

Nathan Merrill

20:32

@Dennis I'm curious of the process you did to select/communicate with the 5 new owners

trichoplax

I'm not suggesting leaving, I'm just suggesting being nicer

mbomb007

@RohanJhunjhunwala Or he can ++maturity.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@mbomb007 more like
for(;;)maturity*=2;

Sherlock9

@ColdGolf Any other games? Books?

quartata

Well Sp and tricho were most likely selected for covering other timezones

mbomb007

20:33

@RohanJhunjhunwala for(;;)maturity**=maturity;

quartata

Elendia has already had a significant hand in moderating here

Nathan Merrill

@quartata I should have been clearer. I'm interested in the election process, not the reasons he selected a particular room owner

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@mbomb007 you have two stars

mbomb007

@RohanJhunjhunwala Yeah. It's called exponentiation.

Nathan Merrill

I don't actually have any problems with the people that were selected :)

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

20:34

@mbomb007 that implies he has a greater than zero a mount of maturity

El'endia Starman

@mbomb007 for(;;)maturity=A(maturity,maturity) where A is the Ackermann function. Just wanted to bring a quick end to the escalation. :P

quartata

@NathanMerrill Oh. I don't think there was a real elction per se

Sherlock9

I, for one, welcome our new room owner overlords

4

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

^

quartata

@El'endiaStarman busy beaver function perhaps

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

20:38

In all seriousness can we have a way to vote-kick users?

TimmyD

Phew, working out determinants of submatrices by hand is hard.

flawr

@TimmyD Matlab!

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@TimmyD use mathematica

Geobits

What in the world happened while I was out? It was only an hour or so, people.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

or Matlab

TimmyD

20:38

Yes, I have neither of those things.

Nathan Merrill

wolfram alpha!

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Geobits look at the starboard -> nudge nudge

quartata

@Geobita dont even know anymore

TimmyD

@Geobits You got promoted. There's additional responsibility, but no increase in pay. Kinda like a real promotion.

12

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

^

flawr

20:39

@TimmyD Also are you aware of the adjugate matrix? Makes things a lot easier sometiems.

Geobits

@RohanJhunjhunwala let me get my laptop. Everything is terrible on mobile

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

He probably knows already though @TimmyD

@Geobits ok thanks!

Dennis

@NathanMerrill We (the mods) threw a few names in the hat, discussed them briefly in private, and created another private chat room to ask them if they were interested. Since the number of RO is unbounded for practical purposes and it seemed rather urgent to get the current situation under control, we deemed a formal election process counterproductive.

@TimmyD Use Jelly.

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis I wasn't expecting a formal election :)

Dennis

I know. Just explaining how we got here. :)

DJMcMayhem

20:41

I feel bad that Alex got so downvoted on meta

Even though I disagreed

Dennis

Downvotes on meta aren't a bad thing. If you fear meta downvotes, you're never going to post your opinion.

flawr

@TimmyD Or what kind of determinants are you trying to find?

trichoplax

It indicates disagreement with that particular statement. It was useful to have the statement so that we could see how the community felt about it. It doesn't reflect how we feel about Alex

Nathan Merrill

I think its a rather good thing that we are able to downvote him

there's a lot of "people vote up because he's a mod"

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, I suppose. I walked away from the whole thing with mortarboard, which I didn't think was possible on meta.

trichoplax

20:43

@NathanMerrill Yes this shows that is just sour grapes

Nathan Merrill

nah, I still think it occurs

aka, people are more likely to agree with mods because they respect them

TimmyD

@flawr For my challenge in the Sandbox

Nathan Merrill

(I'm pretty sure I do it too)

trichoplax

I'm sure there's an element of that (also with other respected users), but I think it's less than people think

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill there's also, "users are more likely to become mods when they have opinions other people agree with"

flawr

20:45

@TimmyD Just let me know if I (or my matlab) can do anything for you=)

TimmyD

@Dennis Haha. I can barely follow along with your explanations. My brain just doesn't want to process "links" right.

El'endia Starman

@DJMcMayhem Well, that and people who are fit for modship are also the kind to think things through and support their opinions with facts and such.

Nathan Merrill

anyways, my point is, I'm glad that we have a good solid counter-example that people don't just upvote mods

quartata

@TimmyD Lynn's new shiny tutorial is a great primer

It's on the wiki

Geobits

Ok, now that I have a semi-real keyboard, thanks for the promotion and all. I'll try not to nuke people just for liking spaces over tabs.

5

DJMcMayhem

20:47

@El'endiaStarman exactly. That's a better way of putting it.

quartata

@Geobits This makes me slightly nervous

DJMcMayhem

@Geobits Thank you for allowing me to stay. :P

trichoplax

@Geobits Not to worry, I've suddenly changed my opinion on that

TimmyD

@quartata Oh, neat. I hadn't seen that. I'll have to take a look.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Geobits can I "borrow" your idea of identing with comment blocks? It could make an interesting challenge on main?

ColdGolf

20:48

@RohanJhunjhunwala On Sandbox.

Geobits

Borrow? You can have it. It sounds like a terrible idea for anything but a challenge :P

ColdGolf

Not really.

It has potential.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Geobits thanks, I do like to ensure that I don't take something without permission (even though there is CC-SA)

TimmyD

@flawr Will do. I think it also doesn't help that I last really dealt with linear algebra like 15 years ago and haven't really touched many matrix operations since.

Geobits

@TimmyD All you really have to remember is that there is no spoon. The rest follows from that.

El'endia Starman

20:50

@TimmyD Have you seen 3Blue1Brown's recent videos on Linear Algebra? They're amazing.

Adnan

@Dennis Hahahahaha

That was fast

TimmyD

@Geobits Yeah, I'm pretty sure Galois said something along those lines ;-)

@El'endiaStarman Never heard of 'em.

El'endia Starman

@TimmyD Right then, you're in for an educayshun!

@TimmyD youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDPD3MizzM2xVFitgF8hE_ab

TimmyD

@El'endiaStarman Just emailed myself a link to their YouTube channel to check out later

ColdGolf

@RohanJhunjhunwala Do they enforce the CC-SA, though?

Also, wasn't it recently changed to all MIT, not CC-SA?

Before, normal text was CC-SA. Code was MIT. Now, it's all MIT.

trichoplax

20:53

@ColdGolf The CC BY-SA is there to allow you to reuse things, not to prevent you. Rohan is just being polite

El'endia Starman

@ColdGolf SE tried to do that in January, IIRC, but there was a huge backlash. I don't think they've moved forward with it since then.

ColdGolf

@El'endiaStarman Why the backlash? It was a good idea.

trichoplax

You can read all of the reasons for the backlash on meta SE

468

Q: The MIT License – Clarity on Using Code on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange

Update (Dec. 22): Thanks, everyone, for your feedback to this proposal. We're going to digest this one over the holidays and should have a follow-up announcement answering your questions and addressing your concerns after the new year. We won't be making any hurried decisions on this topic, an...

ColdGolf

@trichoplax I've read them before, but I mean like, SE's policy already gives them a complete license over your work on the site. So ideally, a license change shouldn't bother the users.

Pretty much every site does it to protect the site from lawsuits.

trichoplax

The only license SO as a company has over your works is the CC BY-SA license, as far as I am aware

quartata

20:55

It's not about that. It's about usage of the snippets by SO's end users

DJMcMayhem

If you really want the backlash, that's all here:

-273

Q: A New Code License: The MIT, this time with Attribution Required

Update: January 15, 2016 Thank you for your patience and feedback. We're going to delay the implementation for now - we'll be back soon to open some more discussions. Important context for those arriving from reddit and slashdot links: The status quo is not "public domain"; attribution i...

discussion licensing feedback creative-commons

The difference between votes on those two cracks me up

quartata

> Attribution Required

trichoplax

I remember that, after upvotes on the first one were interpreted as support rather than "yes, this needs lots of discussion and attention"

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Not if you're on Windows

trichoplax

Interesting that the second one got right down to absolute zero...

El'endia Starman

20:57

@trichoplax Such a bummer we don't have the capability to give 0.15 downvotes...

trichoplax

Such a purist :P

ColdGolf

@trichoplax -273?

Absolute zero is -273.15

Ninja'd

trichoplax

El'endiaStarman beat you to spoiling my bad joke ;)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

trichoplax makes many puns

trichoplax

Kind of you to leave out the "bad" in front of "puns" :)

Transcript for