The Nineteenth Byte

2:00 AM

It was a bit more lopsided at first toward 'yes'. I linked back to it a couple months later for some reason and it picked up a couple 'no's then.

Strictly non-binding, just like brexit. So no matter.

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat isn't that basically "find the distance" between each point?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@ColdGolf please stop trying to post technicalities like that 6/5 is for all practical purposes even.

Nathan Merrill

or do they have to arrange the points such that they won't cross?

aka, is (0,0), (0,1), (1,0), (1,1) valid input?

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill ok thats good idea

Nathan Merrill

:)

ColdGolf

2:01 AM

@Downgoat Can I steal it?

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill no becuse thats an N not a square

@ColdGolf no

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat you assume that the first and the last points connect

ColdGolf

@Downgoat Not even if I credit you?

Conor O'Brien

I have mixed feelings

Nathan Merrill

er...nevermind

you have 4 points and the do make a shape

but if you go in order, then all you get is an N

Downgoat

2:02 AM

@ColdGolf no, it's my idea :P

ColdGolf

@Downgoat But, but... Fine.

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill well it makes an |X| instead of a square

but if i go with what you proposed correct output is 4

Geobits

Oh carp, the voting has resumed.

Mitch Schwartz

oh sorry ColdGolf for misspelling your name

ColdGolf

@Downgoat Test cases?

@MitchSchwartz It's fine.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

2:04 AM

@Downgoat dont we have a similar challenge of putting a convex hull around a series of points

Nathan Merrill

right. Both perimeter and area are interesting challenges, but I like perimeter because it still has the "rearrange the points correctly", and the calculations are easier

Downgoat

@RohanJhunjhunwala idk

Nathan Merrill

oooh, there's a problem

ColdGolf

Test cases, @Downgoat?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Downgoat make it require input as an arbitrary number of points, no three of which are colinear.

@NathanMerrill whats the problem?

Nathan Merrill

2:04 AM

(0,0),(3,0),(0,3),(3,3),(1,1)

its ambiguous

Downgoat

@ColdGolf i dont feel like making tests cases right now

@NathanMerrill how?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@NathanMerrill one sec let me get out wolfram alpha

ColdGolf

@Dennis Out of all places, you delete my post on Meta?

Downgoat

^

ColdGolf

@Downgoat Without testcases I'd VTC unclear.

Nathan Merrill

2:05 AM

its a 3 by 3 square with a point at (1,1)

which side goes inwards?

it makes a difference

Downgoat

@ColdGolf idk how to VTC a chat message but ok

ColdGolf

@Downgoat You can't. But you need some real testcases if you wanna make a main post.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@NathanMerrill isn't there only gonna be one possible convex figure formed by those points?

Dennis

@ColdGolf It's a yes or no question which you responded with I don't know. That was at best a comment.

Nathan Merrill

who said these shapes are convex?

I don't even think that convex is possible with those points

ColdGolf

2:07 AM

@Dennis With this bad Meta.CodeGolf experience, won't people be afraid to voice their opinions when mods interfere with them?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@NathanMerrill I thought there were all going to be polygons

El'endia Starman

@ColdGolf It was not an answer. Subject to deletion on Meta and Main.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+(0,0),(3,0),(0,3),(3,3),(1,1)

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill i can always take the easy route and say "input will aways have unambiguous solution"

Dennis

@ColdGolf I take my moderator duties very seriously.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

2:08 AM

@Downgoat make the input always consist of polygon

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat or the better solution of "the smallest possible perimeter"

ColdGolf

@Dennis Why didn't you just lemme know to edit it or even delete it myself?

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill i dont want to make solutions need to be too complex though

@RohanJhunjhunwala ok probably

Nathan Merrill

yeah. "unambiguous solution" and "always convex" are synonymous I think

DJMcMayhem

@ColdGolf if it was inappropriate for meta, it was appropriate for deletion. An "I don't know" is not an answer

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

2:10 AM

^ @NathanMerrill I agree although I can't formally prove it ^

ColdGolf

@DJMcMayhem I posted something on Meta.SE a while earlier, and I think it was at -10 votes, but never deleted.

DJMcMayhem

Although your points were good, so you could comment them

Nathan Merrill

actually, I just disproved it. A 2x2 square with a point in the middle is unambiguous in regards to its perimeter

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill Hmm, that point would have to be exactly in the middle for that to be true.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@ColdGolf sorry, but the mods Earn a position of respect and authority among this community. They need to be voted in through an election process and can even be removed if they abuse it. You need to learn to understand that, and go with it. You can always participate in these elections and vote (For or against) moderators

Nathan Merrill

2:12 AM

@El'endiaStarman I should have made that clearer, but yeah

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@NathanMerrill but isnt that not convex nor is it a polygon?

Dennis

@ColdGolf All parts of SE are subject to moderation, be it main sites, meta sites or chat. Downvotes on meta mean that people disagree with your standpoint. Having a lot of downvotes doesn't mean that a post should be deleted, just that people disagree with it. A post that doesn't even provide a standpoint serves no purpose.

El'endia Starman

As an example, let's say we have (0,0), (0,1000), (1000,1000), (1000,0), (0,2).

ColdGolf

@RohanJhunjhunwala I know this, but I also know that on Meta.SE, you'd get downvoted to hell but your post would stay up. At least that's been my (admittedly limited) experience.

Nathan Merrill

@RohanJhunjhunwala correct.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

2:14 AM

@NathanMerrill so your example I think is good evidence for requiring convex polygons as input

Nathan Merrill

Convex implies unambiguous perimeter, but not vice versa

ColdGolf

How do I do newlines in comments?

El'endia Starman

@RohanJhunjhunwala Err, isn't it an irregular pentagon?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

oh

Geobits

@ColdGolf As far as I can tell, you have exactly one post on meta.se. It was a question, and marked as duplicate. That's a completely different circumstance and comparing the two is meaningless.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

2:14 AM

yes

@El'endiaStarman whoops brain fart

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman hey what was that hosting service you use again?

Geobits

You can't see all the deleted posts there. Trust me, there are many.

El'endia Starman

@RohanJhunjhunwala Haha, no problem, happens to all of us.

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Webfaction.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

yes, thanks

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman why?

ColdGolf

2:15 AM

@Geobits Comparing the two is quite relevant. My Meta.SE post, almost everybody disagreed with it, but it, as far as I know, was never ever deleted.

Nathan Merrill

(never heard of it before)

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I did research for best and relatively-cheap shared hosting services for Django.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@NathanMerrill yes Convex -> Unambiguous perimeter (agreed) thus (Personally) I feel that the challenge is best suited with input describing a convex polygon

Geobits

@ColdGolf Right. And this post, there wasn't even anything to disagree with, because it wasn't an answer. If you think things don't get deleted on meta.se, you're quite wrong.

Meta posts get deleted all the time. You just don't notice it because you can't see them unless they're yours.

ColdGolf

@Geobits It wasn't an answer? It may have been a bad answer, but an answer it was.

El'endia Starman

2:17 AM

@RohanJhunjhunwala Yes, we know, no need to keep repeating it.

Geobits

@RohanJhunjhunwala Yes. I intentionally avoid using the ignore button. Thanks.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

oh @Geobits my bad

Dennis

If you ignore people being a moderator, you're doing it wrong.

DJMcMayhem

@ColdGolf how the heck is "yes and no" an answer?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Dennis sorry the feature was intended to be directed at Geobits

ColdGolf

2:18 AM

@DJMcMayhem Well, it's not really an answer I guess. You win.

Conor O'Brien

> To ignore is to be in bliss; to be in bliss is no fun at all.

--moi

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@El'endiaStarman sorry

Nathan Merrill

I do wish ignores ignored @replies

Geobits

^ that would make it more attractive, yes.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

feature-request should I post it in meta?

El'endia Starman

2:19 AM

@NathanMerrill You can be pinged without seeing the pings?

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill taht has been said like 3 times today >_>

@RohanJhunjhunwala yes

ColdGolf

I'm bored, here's a mini-challenge (not code): Prove the Quadratic Reciprocity Theorem.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

on it

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman no, conversations with the ignored aren't hidden

@Downgoat I've been here all day, did I really miss it?

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill Ohh, I see what you mean.

Nathan Merrill

2:20 AM

already a post

8

Q: Ignore responses to ignored users in chat

Chat provides the ability to ignore users. However, it doesn't force everyone else to ignore them. ;) As such, you can still see responses to that user. It might be nice if "Ignore this user" provided an option to also ignore responses to that user's posts, and potentially all posts with @igno...

Geobits

It really ruins the context of a lot of things either way, though.

Nathan Merrill

yeah, there's really no good solution

Geobits

Well, there is one.... but I'd need sudo for that.

<_<

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

Give Mark Henderson some love here

2

A: Ignore responses to ignored users in chat

I support this. If you have 3-4 "busy" people on ignore and the chat room is busy, you may as well give up on trying to follow the conversation streams and come back later when there's nobody around. If I have someone on ignore, I don't really give two hoots what they're talking about or if they...

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill of course SE didn't bother to reply >_>

Nathan Merrill

2:22 AM

oh! Anybody know how Chris Jester Young is doing?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

Perhaps a (ignore this user chats and all responses) option

Nathan Merrill

(specifically with his teaching website)?

Conor O'Brien

@NathanMerrill I know what, but not how.

no longer pingable in chat :(

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I dunno, haven't heard anything from him in a while.

Maybe you can comment on his Meta post?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@ChrisJesterYoung (This is a test some of us golfers were interested in your teaching website)

@ConorO'Brien we'll see if it works

Conor O'Brien

2:24 AM

@RohanJhunjhunwala idts

Dennis

If it doesn't autocomplete, it doesn't ping.

mınxomaτ

Check into the Slack channel for his startup.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

idts?

oh @Dennis whoops

@Dennis so rip some of my time manually typing pings

ASCII-only

ninja'd

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

thinking they work

Nathan Merrill

2:25 AM

@mınxomaτ link?

mınxomaτ

I don't know if I'm supposed to share that.

Nathan Merrill

ok, nevermind then :)

@mınxomaτ btw, I pretty sure I figured out what's happening. I'm have a huge latency on random seeks

what's causing that, I'm not sure

mınxomaτ

oh

Nathan Merrill

876ms, to be specific (on average)

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem vim question: how to execute sequence of vim commands from command line? Particularly: /version<cr>hh<C-a>?

El'endia Starman

2:29 AM

57

Q: A fond farewell from an old-time mod

tl;dr: I'm starting a coding tutoring company, and if you have any interest in coding education, or want to get coding tutoring or be a tutor, email me at cky@levelupyourcode.com. I hope to keep in touch with you all! So long, and thanks for all the ><> As we wrap up the first PPCG election, it...

discussion

He's got an email address in there.

Conor O'Brien

ಠ_ಠ for the -5

Nathan Merrill

thanks :)

Mitch Schwartz

well i'll voice my apparent blindness and accept the ensuing shunning, but i see most of this chat as noise, and looking at the transcript a bit i can only vaguely see why @ColdGolf's posts are seen as more noisy than everything else

Dennis

That's partly because the worst ones were deleted.

7

Conor O'Brien

@MitchSchwartz shuns /s

DJMcMayhem

2:32 AM

@Downgoat -c but it defaults to ex commands, so you'll need to use normal

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@ConorO'Brien thats because it can be perceived as advertising the new company (although he did clearly discuss hiss affiliation and got permission from other mods(according to the comments)) so I personally think its good.

Conor O'Brien

@RohanJhunjhunwala that's what I thought as well

DJMcMayhem

@Downgoat so that would be nvim file -c "/version" -c "normal hh<C-a>"

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem so like vim file.txt -c ":normal /version<cr>hh<C-a>"?

oh

ok tyvm

Nathan Merrill

@MitchSchwartz I may agree with you. This is a really noisy chatroom. I'm not entirely sure if noise is the only reason that we consider him a problem, though

DJMcMayhem

2:34 AM

@Downgoat Or even better g/version/normal hh<C-a>

Downgoat

idk how that works >_> or wat it does

DJMcMayhem

help :global it's an extremely powerful and useful command

Nathan Merrill

oooh this would be a fun challenge:

21

A: Why BASIC had numbered lines?

Many microcomputers had a BASIC interpreter in ROM that would start upon bootup. The problem was that there was no text editor or file system to speak of. You had an interactive prompt to do everything through. If you wanted to insert a line of code, you just typed it, starting with the line numb...

aka, take a set of basic commands, and reassign them numbers

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem oic

thats very cool

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@NathanMerrill I like it, has a good backstory too (and a legitimate reason to require short code (lack of memory))

Conor O'Brien

2:39 AM

@NathanMerrill that gives me an idea for an esolang

Downgoat

:O OMG COVERAGE IS GREEN

THIS IS BEST DAY OF MY LIFE

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat :D

I feel bad because I'm going to commit uncovered code tomorrow >_>

Downgoat

;______; Y u do dis

Conor O'Brien

because school

Downgoat

it is at 80.01% and will go back to < 80% ;_;

Geobits

2:45 AM

Get it to 90% and you won't be so worried about a single commit dropping it :P

feersum

Try adding more more spacing in code that's already covered.

Conor O'Brien

\o/ I have a two-byte truth machine in my new lang that I made while I should've been working on homework!

Downgoat

@Geobits once i reach 90% it becomes uber green and so when it drops below 90 itll go back to normal green ;_;

also if your PR drops below required coverage it can't be accepted

Geobits

99% then :D

ASCII-only

@peoplewhowanttoknowaboutcky'sprogress he says he's changed his goal to a business to business model

Downgoat

2:46 AM

@Geobits 99%/100% is super-duper green below it is only uber green

Conor O'Brien

@ASCII-only you mean, "from a business to a business model"?

Downgoat

im not kidding about this

Geobits

Fine. Shoot for 105% then. By then it should be so green you'll go blind and won't even realize when the color changes.

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien ?

Conor O'Brien

@ASCII-only idk how to parse your original statement so I made the correction to make sense? :P

Downgoat

2:47 AM

Notice to anyone using cheddar: pls start using .chr. .cdr is used for other things so it can't be used :(

@Downgoat .chr? ew.

fuck chr is used too

dot-chair

suggestions for alternative file extensions?

Nathan Merrill

so language idea: you store tons of meta-data about functions, allowing you to modify functions at runtime.

Geobits

2:48 AM

.cheddar ?

Downgoat

.🧀 perhaps

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien basically his goal is now a replicable, saleable intracompany coding tutoring model

Downgoat

@Geobits ew too long

Dennis

I don't think .chr. is being used for anything else.

Conor O'Brien

@ASCII-only ah

Downgoat

2:48 AM

@Dennis its used for char encodings

Geobits

@Downgoat Well, it's not like you need extensions at all, really.

Dennis

With the dot at the end?

feersum

Try writing the extension in small caps.

Dennis

>.<

Downgoat

mac views it as" DVD/CD-R Master Image"

@Geobits yes i do

for imports

Geobits

2:49 AM

Why does import require extensions...?

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat it's almost impossible to pick an unused, good one

have fun

Dennis

@Downgoat It's also used by Corel DRAW if memory serves.

DJMcMayhem

@Downgoat .ches

Or .ched if you want something less silly

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem that sounds like i'm making a ";_; y u haet ches" joke

@DJMcMayhem I'm sure @Quill would approve of .chedz

Dennis

.;_; should be free.

Downgoat

2:52 AM

omg yes

DJMcMayhem

@Downgoat Wait, that's not how you talk in real life?!?!

Nathan Merrill

file extensions are like domain names, stop trying to get your own 3-letter

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem no it is. my life is joke

@NathanMerrill XD

brb registering .cdr gTLD

ASCII-only

what about ced/chd?

Geobits

I'm still unsure what benefit you get from an extension beside default-program status.

Downgoat

2:54 AM

@ASCII-only I think chd is the windows command for changing dir :P

Dennis

@NathanMerrill I may nor not not have bought a 3 letter domain for TIO.

El'endia Starman

How about .c? :P

ASCII-only

but default program status is important

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat okay how does that even matter

ASCII-only

@El'endiaStarman used by C

Geobits

2:55 AM

@ASCII-only For some things I guess. I'm not sure how many people actually run scripts that way for most languages though.

El'endia Starman

@ASCII-only Surely Downgoat believes his language to be superior and more deserving of the extension. Right @Downgoat?

ASCII-only

@El'endiaStarman true

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman nah. C is used by everything from my toaster to rocket ship. I think its more deserving of the extension than some slow af cheese

DJMcMayhem

@El'endiaStarman you're right, he does believe that!

ASCII-only

@Geobits yeah, i guess, but it's for distribution GUI scripts

@Downgoat you have a smart toaster and a rocket ship?!

Conor O'Brien

2:57 AM

 Directory of C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\fileexttesting

08/24/2016  22:56    <DIR>          .
08/24/2016  22:56    <DIR>          ..
08/24/2016  22:56                 7 file.txt
               1 File(s)              7 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  851,344,695,296 bytes free

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\fileexttesting
λ type file.txt
asdf

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\fileexttesting
λ echo asdf > file.;_;

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\fileexttesting

Downgoat

@ASCII-only yes

Dennis

I really don't understand what's wrong with .cheddar. It can't be confused with anything else, auto-completing means you don't even have to type it, and the days where you had to worry about compatibility with 8.3 filenames are long gone.

Geobits

It's being used by Vermont-based dairy farm software.

Downgoat

^

Geobits

But it's still the best option I've seen yet ;)

Dennis

3:05 AM

Fine .cheddartheprogramminglanguagenotthecheese.

3

Geobits

Ok, see, now there's a better option than .cheddar

Downgoat

@Dennis ok yeah that works brb

El'endia Starman

@Dennis Golfed: .cheddarlang.

Dennis

3:21 AM

> If you are on a BSD platform, ensure the realpath command exists.

@Downgoat Is it not required on Linux?

Downgoat

Usually on non-BSD systems realpath comes by standard

Dennis

Ubuntu Server doesn't have it by default.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Dennis the github repo for SIL has been updated with the new features. Stdin is now handled through command line arguments if any are passed. The interpreter now expects the command line arguments starting with the second one to consist of each line of stdin

It also now has support for string input as well as an "illiterate prepocessor" which allows programmer defined macros

(But it still is inferior to the mighty cheese)

Downgoat

@ASCII-only wait i got better picture:

4

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

10/10 seems like a reliable pilot for my expensive spacecraft

feersum

3:27 AM

Where does the toast go in?

Downgoat

@feersum see those blue line things on the right, its there?

(In the actual game toast comes out of there)

@RohanJhunjhunwala thx

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Downgoat np

Downgoat

3:42 AM

question: how 2 learn C++ or Java really quickly

I have interview with computer science teacher tomorrow and I need to know C++ and Java to get in the class

Dennis

@RohanJhunjhunwala Pulled and compiled. Please test to see if there are any issues.

Downgoat

i know computer science plenty well

not C++ and Java ;_;

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Dennis thanks!

Eamon Olive

@RohanJhunjhunwala Do you happen to have a proof for the turing completeness of SILOS?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@EamonOlive it is as turing complete as brainf---. It has access to (theoretically) unlimited memory (bounded by the max array size in java) has an arbitrary branching command, and thus can be shown to transpile from bf. Although I have not quite formally proven it yet.

Dennis

3:48 AM

Question to the CS people: Can implementations actually be Turing complete or is it just a theoretical concept for languages?

On an unrelated note: Why do some Gravatars look different on my phone?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Dennis languages can be as turing complete as you can have infinite memory to store on a computer. So since there is no infinite memory all languages are technically BSM's

@Dennis can you pull and compile again I forgot to uncomment a line or two, and had to fix.

sorry :(

Dennis

BSM gave a lot of hits on Google, but none related to programming.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Dennis sorry Bounded Storage Machine

esolangs.org/wiki/Bounded-storage_machine

^ if you're interested ^

Dennis

Just trying to understand what all the hype is about.

Any definition that implies that brainfuck is a powerful programming language is a tad flawed as far as I'm concerned.

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

@Dennis its more of a thought excersize in computation rather than a practical means to an end

I think Alan Turings work is interested as far as a formal definition of a theoretical computer

Anastasiya-Romanova 秀

3:58 AM

@Dennis Hi. Am I allowed to answer my own challenge? Is it ethically accepted here?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

yes @Anastasiya-Romanova秀

Anastasiya-Romanova 秀

@RohanJhunjhunwala Are there some 'legal proofs' as justifications?

Rohan Jhunjhunwala

It is commonly done especially to provide a reference implementation, but be sure to golf it as much as you can, and it meets all the rules in the help center.

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