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8:00 PM
Yeah but you're saving two copies of it.
 
ok yeah (you could save diff?)
 
@quartata And how would you store that private URL? Having a password or an identifier in local storage/cookies seems a lot easier...
 
@Dennis I just thought it would be something you could copy and paste from a field when you first created it. I don't think it should be just by itself but rather it should be in addition
It's nice because then you could share it with a few and other people could make modifications
Like if you had an answer two people were working on.
 
question: what's a word for a sound happening
 
Pulsing perhaps?
Context dependent.
 
8:03 PM
@quartata That seems like an edge case, but why not. If I make the client generate an access token from the secret and the permalink ID, it could be shared with others without revealing the secret.
 
It also resolves your multiple device issue: if you want to work on an answer on mobile you could just get the token real quick before you head out or whatever
 
Well, if the devices share a common history, that wouldn't even be needed.
 
Oh hey, that's true
Thanks Chrome
 
@flawr te vidoe neds mor vus. And the messege more stars. Really cool, thanks for sharing.
 
@quartata The only problem with this is that revoking/restoring access would become quite convoluted.
 
8:07 PM
No problem. Just fork it
 
@Dennis You need think twice about the [tag:underhanded]

It had some really good questions!
 
By the way, if you develop TIO into an actual thing you should probably split the front page up into "Actual languages" and "Weird languages"
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei is that ios10 beta?
 
@ColdGolf I made a rant about this on the A51 Code Trolling proposal but it's gone since the proposal was deleted
Suffice to say
Code trolling and underhanded have proven to be bad ideas
 
@quartata Of course you can't make code-trolling on A51, what did you think??
 
8:09 PM
I didn't make the proposal.
 
underhanded is different, though. It's not trolling, it's serious business.
All I get is "non-objective" blah blah blah
 
No. It's pretty much a subset of code trolling.
 
Who says?
That's not an objective way of looking at it.
 
It's pretty clear. I could fish a meta post out if I wanted
 
Objectively speaking, underhanded questions were fun.
 
8:10 PM
Any question that's tagged underhanded could more or less be tagged code trolling.
 
Some were good, though. Some.
They deserved the underhanded tag, and they were good.
 
underhanded means that you were trolling people with your code
 
You gotta admit it.
 
Well, I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
 
8:11 PM
@Dennis By the way please tell me you're writing TIO 2.0 in something other than bash
 
What is TIO?
 
Try it online
a ideone-like thing, but mainly for esolangs
 
@TùxCräftîñg ಠ_ಠ Chedddar is not esolang
 
I know it.
@Downgoat codde-golf = esolang
 
Cheddar is not golf
 
8:13 PM
wat
^^
 
@quartata Why would I do that?
 
@Downgoat Chedddar may not be one, but Cheddar is. :P
 
@Dennis Because maintenance will be a nightmare?
 
and btw it's code golf
 
You know, if Java wins once on ppcg, I'll delete my account.
 
8:13 PM
@Maltysen wat does that even mean
 
Perl, Python, anything but bash please
@ColdGolf It has won before
 
@ColdGolf so delete your account <insert smiley here>
 
It has NOT won.
Java is boring.
 
yes it has won multiple times
 
Oh yes it has
 
8:14 PM
> Chedddar
 
The world doesn't work that way, @ConorO'Brien
 
by word I mean "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)"
3
 
@ColdGolf so it can't possibly win?
 
@Maltysen .........
 
The world doesn't work that way, @ConorO'Brien
 
8:15 PM
7
A: tiny diamond square algorithm

TheNumberOne Java, 1017 bytes Input is a space separated list like so: l s1 s2 s3 s4 h a b. Output is an 2d-array containing the numbers. Program: import java.util.*;import static java.lang.Math.*;class C{public static void main(String[]a){int b=a.length,d=0;float[]c=new float[b];for(;d<b;){c[d]=Float.p...

 
@ColdGolf Disallowing underhanded challenges is/was a democratic process. We had a discussion on the meta site, and the conclusion was that underhanded challenges should be off topic. There's nothing I can, should, need or want to do about it.
 
@Dennis Democratic my yeah right
Domocratic I wasn't invited
 
because you wasnt here... ?
 
8:16 PM
12
Q: The state of the underhanded tag

J AtkinI recently looked at the underhanded tag and noticed that all 3 of the newest questions are closed as "Too Broad". From our new rules for popularity contests and the code-trolling tag being off-topic it would seem that underhanded may also be off topic. What is the community opinion on the underh...

@ColdGolf Feel free to add an answer.
 
rofl
30
A: Write a code golf problem in which Java wins

hammar48 characters Task: Ignore any input. Always produce exactly the following output: java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError Caused by: java.lang.ArithmeticException: / by zero at M.<init>(M.java:1) at M.<clinit>(M.java:1) Solution: enum M{M;System x;{x.setErr(x.out);int y=1/0;}} Save ...

 
By this logic we should do another election for the first President because none of us here were alive when George Washington was elected
 
@quartata First one doesn't count, Java was the only answer anyways.
 
@ColdGolf You can slog through the search I posted. There are a few where there were other answers
 
Like how many? Two?
One with a lot of comments under it isn't two.
 
8:17 PM
why are you saying Java cant win?
 
@Dennis There were many underhanded questions that were good. I think the tag may be restored under a different name and stricter rules for its usage.
@TùxCräftîñg Can it?
 
obviously
every language can win
 
That would be like somebody discovering a new element. Hasn't happened in a few years.
 
even INTERCALL can win (theorically)
 
???
 
8:19 PM
@TùxCräftîñg Doesn't count. You made it.
 
@ColdGolf then post that on the meta post, and see if it gets a consensus
 
@ColdGolf Some of them might have been entertaining, but they're not a good fit for our model of challenge with objective validity and winning criteria. Off topic doesn't mean bad, just that it shouldn't be posted here.
 
:O INTERCALL repo have 0 contributors
 
@Dennis PPCG is entertainment, like it or not. It's not an office,, nor is it code review or programmers.SE
 
8:20 PM
@TùxCräftîñg wat how is even posibl
 
because VS do something weird with git
 
oh you haven't set your git email
 
oh lel
 
You should've seen my WIP golfing language. 1659 unicode characters doing different actions
 
@Downgoat nope, my email was set
 
8:21 PM
@TùxCräftîñg git config --global user.email "tux@crafting.goat"
 
@ColdGolf That doesn't mean there shouldn't be rules
 
was it set globally?
 
42 secs ago, by TùxCräftîñg
because VS do something weird with git
 
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
i have it set on my GH account
 
8:22 PM
@quartata Sure, have rules. But don't ban fun questions just because you thought so.
 
and commits without this weird VS plugin works
 
;_; y u us VS an no vim
 
it was like 3 months ago
 
@ColdGolf Imagine I had answered your underhanded challenge with "Vault Number 3240. Nothing in the post disallows that and it'll win even though it's a boring answer
 
@ColdGolf Yes, PPCG should entertain, but that doesn't mean that anything that entertains is on topic. Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree. There's nothing I could do to allow underhanded challenges, even if I wanted to.
 
8:22 PM
okay TNB is distracting me from work, bai
 
@ColdGolf but the point is that more people think so than not
(I think our consensus rules are 2/3 of votes are upvotes)
 
Hell, it would probably even get upvotes (although I hope it wouldn't) if I used string compression
 
oh CnR idea: cops: write java answer robbers: try to outgolf java answer
 
@quartata It would be a loophole.
No longer funny.
And you know it.
 
Define this loophole for me
There's no real fixing this problem.
 
8:25 PM
@ColdGolf what if the answer was "Vault Number "+(3239+1)
 
the problem in underhanded challenges: "alert('2 + 2 = 4')" <insert a lot of spaces> alert("Vault Number 3240")
 
@ColdGolf Point to the standard loopholes where my theoretical answer isn't allowed
 
@Maltysen What language is that?
English 2.0?
 
@ColdGolf idk? it works in js
 
Here's a real world example of this:
104
A: Paint Starry Night, objectively, in 1kB of code

LegionMammal978Mathematica, score 14125.71 "a.png"~Export~ConstantImage[{75,91,110}/256,{386,320}] Simply saves this image: to a.png.

If that question was a popcon that would have won
Thankfully it wasn't because we convinced the guy on meta to experiment with an objective scoring
 
8:27 PM
@quartata Objective scoring on an image?
 
Yes. Read the post
 
yes, why?
 
Squared distance is objective, but the question itself is subjective.
 
What
 
wat
what is subjective in this question?
 
8:28 PM
^
 
qusetion: whats a word for "covertly slid"
 
@TùxCräftîñg Don't put pressure on him to get into another argument
@Downgoat Hmmm
There's a word for that but I can't quite remember
 
@Downgoat scooch
 
Yeah, that's not bad.
 
8:33 PM
@quartata I made proposed loophole against those type of answers:
7
A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

DowngoatEmpty / Bare Output Not sure on the best title but hopefully the examples show what I mean. Mainly targeting code-challenges where the score is determined by the output. This results in very boring, but valid, answers which tend to get upvoted especially on pop-cons with no other answers. An ...

 
I was thinking something like "going prone" but that's not quite it
 
its not denying all "simple" answers but says you should at least give a valid attempt at optimizing your score
 
@Downgoat My answer in this case made a very serious attempt at competing
In fact it would have won
But that's good, it helps a little
 
@Maltysen i mean to like slid a think not like yourself
 
@Downgoat coast?
 
8:36 PM
@quartata I think "slip" or "tuck" is correct word
@Maltysen that doesn't really convey "convert"ness though
 
tuck is nice, but its more like hiding something
 
Nudge?
 
oooh
 
@Maltysen yes that's what I'm going for
 
Like nudge the salt shaker over to the dead goat
 
8:38 PM
._.
 
Oh, sorry
 
morbid much
 
@quartata seriously?
 
@Downgoat secrete?
Also means its own opposite, which is handy if you want to be ambiguous
 
i think when most people here secrete there gonna think of leaking (i.e. juicer secrets orange juice into cup)
 
8:41 PM
@trichoplax btw thanks for that edit to the reticular answer
 
"secrete the salt shaker over to the dead goat" roflamao
 
@ConorO'Brien You're welcome. Glad to hear I guessed right :)
 
@Downgoat There's no subtext here, honestly
 
I give up on the batch thing, maybe someone else has a bright idea
0
Q: Piping and redirection in Windows 10' new console mode?

mınxomaτWindows 10 has a new console mode. That mode enables higher dpi fonts, advanced selection etc. pp. But it seems to brake some functionality. The program in question is lxrun (wrapped among others by lxss programs like bash). When lxrun is started, it starts off in legacy console mode and prints...

 
@mınxomaτ Looks to me like lxrun quits as soon as the file descriptor is closed. Have you tried piping in all the answers or make a program that sleeps after printing y/n?
 
8:49 PM
hello again
 
@Dennis Yes, Yes.
 
out of curiosity does anyone happen to understand SQL / relational tables / ORMs / stuff like that?
 
This programs does the weirdest things.
 
Not sure what the official name is for that subject
 
OK then. This is weird.
 
8:50 PM
I currently have about 8 IDA Pro sessions open trying to investigate where lxrun does what. Half of it doesn't make sense.
It's the most bodged program I've ever seen.
I could go the fast and easy way, but then every user would have to download over 1GB of useless junk.
 
:/
 
there needs to be a "writing review".SE
brb proposing
 
there needs to be a design SE :(
design questions are considered off topic like everywhere
 
design is as broad as "programming"
We have sites for graphics design, sound design, art etc.
 
design as in "does this make sense / is it following good practice"
almost no place online to get help on that level
 
8:59 PM
@mınxomaτ Googling gave me this. Would that work?
 
@feersum :/ requires installation
I think I've found away to intercept the lxrun download and patch the SHA signature.
 
What was wrong with e.g. hooking getch() anyway?
 
@The29thSaltshaker there is GD.SE
@The29thSaltshaker UX.SE
 
CMC:

Your code must produce an output of its reverse. However, after reversing it, increment each letter by 3, according to the alphabet position.

After doing that, reverse it again, and then increment by 4.

Shortest in bytes wins.
 
@The29thSaltshaker Not sure quite what you're looking for but it might be worth reading through the on topic page for programmers.SE.
 
9:11 PM
@BaldBantha the OP says so
 
CMC: Output a number for which the number of distinct prime factors is a number for which the number of distinct prime factors is a number for which the number of distinct prime factors is prime.
 
@El'endiaStarman You might also like the stuff these guys do=)
 
@trichoplax discrete prime factors?
 
@Maltysen Let me double check my maths terminology...
@Maltysen My brain malfunctioned - I've applied a fix
 
k got it
 
9:14 PM
@trichoplax I've had plenty of design questions get knocked as off-topic there
 
@The29thSaltshaker Yes I understand not all design questions are on topic there, and they need to be quite specific.
 
@The29thSaltshaker If it's just general discussion rather than a narrow question, maybe the chat of the relevant design related site would be better than their main site?
 
IMO it is a narrow question
But you'll always get people who disagree
 
What's the question?
 
9:17 PM
Well breadth isn't the only consideration - I'm trying to give general advice as I don't know what you want to ask about
 
@ColdGolf It might need more than 6 minutes ;)
 
@trichoplax sure.
You'll get a useless prize in the end.
But a real one.
 
Also there's no rep for CMCs so it depends on there being people in chat at the time who notice it
 
Well, it looks like it's doing pretty good there
 
@Maltysen That was quick...
 
its wrong
gimme a second
 
lol
 
The near-useless digital prize awaits who solves the CMC first.
 
@Maltysen Also will probably be beaten by code that is shorter than the literal number
 
9:19 PM
Is it a bounty? Would I ever love those...
 
@trichoplax *F.fP_Z30030
not finishing
its the product of first 30030 primes numbers
 
Yeah I guess that'll take a while :)
 
its the smallest such number
the general code for this is u*F.fP_ZGQ2
your question represents the input 3
 
@Maltysen I half thought of asking with an input, but I thought I'd keep it simple for a CMC...
 
9:23 PM
@trichoplax nah, it was pretty easy
you start with 2, so smallest number with 2 distinct prime factors is first two primes, 2 and 3 *'ed, so 6, then iterate
 
Nice
I didn't realise when I wrote it down how quickly it would grow
 
@trichoplax 6 min are up. I'll still wait.
 
@ColdGolf No I meant only 6 minutes had passed when you asked if nobody is going to solve it...
 
@trichoplax I''m waiting for a solution. There's a prize tho.
Useless, but it's not merely a bounty
 
@trichoplax each iteration grows (n*logn)^n
 
9:27 PM
@Maltysen OK that's quite dramatic...
@ColdGolf Is the increment by 4 also applied to every letter?
 
i'm not exactly sure about the ^n but its something like that
 
@trichoplax Letter, not number tho.
 
@trichoplax the nth prime number is ~n*logn and we're multiplying the first n together at each step
(where n is the current value of the thing)
 
@ColdGolf So the reversals cancel out, and you just need to increment each letter by 7?
 
I guess we can get the actual complexity of the whole thing from master theorem or something
 
9:29 PM
cancel out? do they?
 
someone better than me at this want to do that?
 
@Maltysen do what
 
@ColdGolf If you reverse, increase the letters, then reverse again, that's the same as just increasing the letters, right?
 
1 min ago, by Maltysen
I guess we can get the actual complexity of the whole thing from master theorem or something
 
my CMC?
 
9:30 PM
analyze trichoplaxe's CMC
 
@trichoplax this one
 
@trichoplax oh wait found better approximation than nlogn^n
its actually O(e^(nlogn)
@trichoplax oh got actual number for 3 iterations
 
The one after 30030?
 
My CMC'C prize has been upgreaded
 
9:35 PM
@trichoplax time for a new oeis
recursive primordials
if it doesn't exist...
an I guess that would actually be iteration number 4 if we make the first one 1
 
Now I have to check... Hard to type such long numbers into the search though ;)
 
don't know if its the same
no its different
 
Was just looking at that one, trying to see if it matched the definition
 
wait it might be the same
 
a(n) is an a(n-1)-almost prime
 
9:39 PM
no it is the same I think
 
squarefree means distinct prime factors
smallest means it's the same sequence, right?
 
yeah
 
My CMC's prize has been upgraded again.
 
I'm not certain though...
 
he said a(5) was a 152104-digit number
 
9:41 PM
what sequence is this?
 
@ColdGolf a(n)=product of first a(n-1) prime numbers
a(0)=0
 
Easy as cake.
 
@Maltysen It says it grows faster than Ackermann...
 
damn
and unlike ackermann its only tail recursive, nothing more
 
911 = 9/11 ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED
 
9:43 PM
CMC: Prove Euclid's proo
proof*
 
@ColdGolf Euclid's proof?
 
Yes
of primes
 
@Maltysen I can't quite follow the sequence it refers to though - it might just be based on part of the Ackermann function
 
"There is an infinite amount of prime numbers" prove this using code.
 
9:44 PM
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ o_O
 
@ColdGolf Proof by exhaustion?
 
By code. Any method you like.
 
@ColdGolf By the way, you can edit chat messages for 2 minutes after posting. Just press up on the keyboard, or click on the drop down arrow to the left of the message
 
Sure.
Euclid rocks!
Euclid <3
 
@trichoplax which one?
 
9:53 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

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CMC: generate x2+ny^2 for n>1 prime number
 
> The current sequence is analogously the primorial(e)th recurrence but grows faster even than A014221 (Ackermann function A_3(n+1))
 
I guess A(3, n+1)?
 
@Maltysen Yes - I think that's it
 
why that specific one...
oh, "This sequence has tetrational growth."
 
9:55 PM
Perhaps that's the fastest growing one that doesn't beat our sequence?
 
@ColdGolf I'd do it in Coq if it had any notion of sets of numbers
 
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ heh
 
ping @Dennis... I have made this (almost certainly not greatly golfed) Jelly chain: “/\,“\/”yḊḊṖṖ“\¶”ṭṭ“/” for the ASCII pyramid and cant for the life of me work out how to recurse it (cant seem to get a repeat, reduce or a loop working!) not much on your wiki or in the tips thread on recursion and loops - any hints you could give would be cool...
@Dennis example input //\/\/\\
 
That's Jelly, folks!
 
do we have no challenges at all about primordials?
 
9:58 PM
Primorials? You should make one called "Primorial soup..." :P
 
Oh man I have a python class for the primordial base knocking around somewhere...
807 bytes though :(
 
"Primordial soup" is a term introduced by the Soviet biologist Alexander Oparin. In 1924, he proposed a theory of the origin of life on Earth through the transformation, during the gradual chemical evolution of particles that contain carbon in the primordial soup. Biochemist Robert Shapiro has summarized the "primordial soup" theory of Oparin and Haldane in its "mature form" as follows: Early Earth had a chemically reducing atmosphere. This atmosphere, exposed to energy in various forms, produced simple organic compounds ("monomers"). These compounds accumulated in a "soup", which may have been...
 

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