The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

20:00

Yeah but you're saving two copies of it.

Downgoat

ok yeah (you could save diff?)

Dennis

@quartata And how would you store that private URL? Having a password or an identifier in local storage/cookies seems a lot easier...

quartata

@Dennis I just thought it would be something you could copy and paste from a field when you first created it. I don't think it should be just by itself but rather it should be in addition

It's nice because then you could share it with a few and other people could make modifications

Like if you had an answer two people were working on.

Downgoat

question: what's a word for a sound happening

quartata

Pulsing perhaps?

Context dependent.

Dennis

20:03

@quartata That seems like an edge case, but why not. If I make the client generate an access token from the secret and the permalink ID, it could be shared with others without revealing the secret.

quartata

It also resolves your multiple device issue: if you want to work on an answer on mobile you could just get the token real quick before you head out or whatever

Dennis

Well, if the devices share a common history, that wouldn't even be needed.

quartata

Oh hey, that's true

Thanks Chrome

Bald Bantha

@flawr te vidoe neds mor vus. And the messege more stars. Really cool, thanks for sharing.

Dennis

@quartata The only problem with this is that revoking/restoring access would become quite convoluted.

quartata

20:07

No problem. Just fork it

ColdGolf

@Dennis You need think twice about the [tag:underhanded]

It had some really good questions!

quartata

By the way, if you develop TIO into an actual thing you should probably split the front page up into "Actual languages" and "Weird languages"

Bald Bantha

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei is that ios10 beta?

quartata

@ColdGolf I made a rant about this on the A51 Code Trolling proposal but it's gone since the proposal was deleted

Suffice to say

Code trolling and underhanded have proven to be bad ideas

ColdGolf

@quartata Of course you can't make code-trolling on A51, what did you think??

quartata

20:09

I didn't make the proposal.

ColdGolf

underhanded is different, though. It's not trolling, it's serious business.

All I get is "non-objective" blah blah blah

quartata

No. It's pretty much a subset of code trolling.

ColdGolf

Who says?

That's not an objective way of looking at it.

quartata

It's pretty clear. I could fish a meta post out if I wanted

ColdGolf

Objectively speaking, underhanded questions were fun.

quartata

20:10

Any question that's tagged underhanded could more or less be tagged code trolling.

ColdGolf

Some were good, though. Some.

They deserved the underhanded tag, and they were good.

Maltysen

underhanded means that you were trolling people with your code

ColdGolf

You gotta admit it.

quartata

ColdGolf

Well, I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

quartata

20:11

@Dennis By the way please tell me you're writing TIO 2.0 in something other than bash

ColdGolf

What is TIO?

TùxCräftîñg

@ColdGolf tryitonline.net

Try it online

a ideone-like thing, but mainly for esolangs

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg ಠ_ಠ Chedddar is not esolang

ColdGolf

I know it.

@Downgoat codde-golf = esolang

TùxCräftîñg

Cheddar is not golf

Downgoat

20:13

wat

^^

Dennis

@quartata Why would I do that?

Maltysen

@Downgoat Chedddar may not be one, but Cheddar is. :P

quartata

@Dennis Because maintenance will be a nightmare?

TùxCräftîñg

and btw it's code golf

ColdGolf

You know, if Java wins once on ppcg, I'll delete my account.

Downgoat

20:13

@Maltysen wat does that even mean

quartata

Perl, Python, anything but bash please

@ColdGolf It has won before

TùxCräftîñg

@ColdGolf so delete your account <insert smiley here>

ColdGolf

It has NOT won.

Java is boring.

TùxCräftîñg

yes it has won multiple times

quartata

Oh yes it has

Maltysen

20:14

> Chedddar

ColdGolf

The world doesn't work that way, @ConorO'Brien

Downgoat

by word I mean "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)"

3

Conor O'Brien

@ColdGolf so it can't possibly win?

Downgoat

@Maltysen .........

ColdGolf

The world doesn't work that way, @ConorO'Brien

quartata

20:15

7

A: tiny diamond square algorithm

Java, 1017 bytes Input is a space separated list like so: l s1 s2 s3 s4 h a b. Output is an 2d-array containing the numbers. Program: import java.util.*;import static java.lang.Math.*;class C{public static void main(String[]a){int b=a.length,d=0;float[]c=new float[b];for(;d<b;){c[d]=Float.p...

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat esolangs.org/wiki/Cheese, esolangs.org/wiki/Cheese%2B, esolangs.org/wiki/Cheese%2B%2B and esolangs.org/wiki/Cheese%2B%2B%2B, does that mean Cheddar is Cheese++++?

Dennis

@ColdGolf Disallowing underhanded challenges is/was a democratic process. We had a discussion on the meta site, and the conclusion was that underhanded challenges should be off topic. There's nothing I can, should, need or want to do about it.

quartata

codegolf.stackexchange.com/…

ColdGolf

@Dennis Democratic my yeah right

Domocratic I wasn't invited

TùxCräftîñg

because you wasnt here... ?

Dennis

20:16

12

Q: The state of the underhanded tag

I recently looked at the underhanded tag and noticed that all 3 of the newest questions are closed as "Too Broad". From our new rules for popularity contests and the code-trolling tag being off-topic it would seem that underhanded may also be off topic. What is the community opinion on the underh...

@ColdGolf Feel free to add an answer.

Maltysen

rofl

30

A: Write a code golf problem in which Java wins

48 characters Task: Ignore any input. Always produce exactly the following output: java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError Caused by: java.lang.ArithmeticException: / by zero at M.<init>(M.java:1) at M.<clinit>(M.java:1) Solution: enum M{M;System x;{x.setErr(x.out);int y=1/0;}} Save ...

quartata

By this logic we should do another election for the first President because none of us here were alive when George Washington was elected

ColdGolf

@quartata First one doesn't count, Java was the only answer anyways.

quartata

@ColdGolf You can slog through the search I posted. There are a few where there were other answers

ColdGolf

Like how many? Two?

One with a lot of comments under it isn't two.

TùxCräftîñg

20:17

why are you saying Java cant win?

ColdGolf

@Dennis There were many underhanded questions that were good. I think the tag may be restored under a different name and stricter rules for its usage.

@TùxCräftîñg Can it?

TùxCräftîñg

obviously

every language can win

ColdGolf

That would be like somebody discovering a new element. Hasn't happened in a few years.

TùxCräftîñg

even INTERCALL can win (theorically)

quartata

???

ColdGolf

20:19

@TùxCräftîñg Doesn't count. You made it.

Maltysen

@ColdGolf then post that on the meta post, and see if it gets a consensus

TùxCräftîñg

just look at the examples

github.com/tuxcrafting/INTERCALL/blob/master/INTERCALL/…

Dennis

@ColdGolf Some of them might have been entertaining, but they're not a good fit for our model of challenge with objective validity and winning criteria. Off topic doesn't mean bad, just that it shouldn't be posted here.

TùxCräftîñg

:O INTERCALL repo have 0 contributors

ColdGolf

@Dennis PPCG is entertainment, like it or not. It's not an office,, nor is it code review or programmers.SE

Downgoat

20:20

@TùxCräftîñg wat how is even posibl

TùxCräftîñg

because VS do something weird with git

Downgoat

oh you haven't set your git email

Maltysen

oh lel

ColdGolf

You should've seen my WIP golfing language. 1659 unicode characters doing different actions

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat nope, my email was set

Downgoat

20:21

@TùxCräftîñg git config --global user.email "[email protected]"

quartata

@ColdGolf That doesn't mean there shouldn't be rules

Downgoat

was it set globally?

TùxCräftîñg

42 secs ago, by TùxCräftîñg

because VS do something weird with git

Downgoat

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

TùxCräftîñg

i have it set on my GH account

ColdGolf

20:22

@quartata Sure, have rules. But don't ban fun questions just because you thought so.

TùxCräftîñg

and commits without this weird VS plugin works

Downgoat

;_; y u us VS an no vim

TùxCräftîñg

it was like 3 months ago

quartata

@ColdGolf Imagine I had answered your underhanded challenge with "Vault Number 3240. Nothing in the post disallows that and it'll win even though it's a boring answer

Dennis

@ColdGolf Yes, PPCG should entertain, but that doesn't mean that anything that entertains is on topic. Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree. There's nothing I could do to allow underhanded challenges, even if I wanted to.

Downgoat

20:22

okay TNB is distracting me from work, bai

Maltysen

@ColdGolf but the point is that more people think so than not

(I think our consensus rules are 2/3 of votes are upvotes)

quartata

Hell, it would probably even get upvotes (although I hope it wouldn't) if I used string compression

Downgoat

oh CnR idea: cops: write java answer robbers: try to outgolf java answer

ColdGolf

@quartata It would be a loophole.

No longer funny.

And you know it.

quartata

Define this loophole for me

There's no real fixing this problem.

Maltysen

20:25

@ColdGolf what if the answer was "Vault Number "+(3239+1)

TùxCräftîñg

the problem in underhanded challenges: "alert('2 + 2 = 4')" <insert a lot of spaces> alert("Vault Number 3240")

quartata

@ColdGolf Point to the standard loopholes where my theoretical answer isn't allowed

ColdGolf

@Maltysen What language is that?

English 2.0?

Maltysen

@ColdGolf idk? it works in js

quartata

Here's a real world example of this:

104

A: Paint Starry Night, objectively, in 1kB of code

Mathematica, score 14125.71 "a.png"~Export~ConstantImage[{75,91,110}/256,{386,320}] Simply saves this image: to a.png.

If that question was a popcon that would have won

Thankfully it wasn't because we convinced the guy on meta to experiment with an objective scoring

ColdGolf

20:27

@quartata Objective scoring on an image?

quartata

Yes. Read the post

TùxCräftîñg

yes, why?

ColdGolf

Squared distance is objective, but the question itself is subjective.

quartata

What

TùxCräftîñg

wat

what is subjective in this question?

Maltysen

20:28

^

Conor O'Brien

^

Downgoat

qusetion: whats a word for "covertly slid"

quartata

@TùxCräftîñg Don't put pressure on him to get into another argument

@Downgoat Hmmm

There's a word for that but I can't quite remember

Maltysen

@Downgoat scooch

quartata

Yeah, that's not bad.

Downgoat

20:33

@quartata I made proposed loophole against those type of answers:

7

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Empty / Bare Output Not sure on the best title but hopefully the examples show what I mean. Mainly targeting code-challenges where the score is determined by the output. This results in very boring, but valid, answers which tend to get upvoted especially on pop-cons with no other answers. An ...

quartata

I was thinking something like "going prone" but that's not quite it

Downgoat

its not denying all "simple" answers but says you should at least give a valid attempt at optimizing your score

quartata

@Downgoat My answer in this case made a very serious attempt at competing

In fact it would have won

But that's good, it helps a little

Downgoat

@Maltysen i mean to like slid a think not like yourself

Maltysen

@Downgoat coast?

Downgoat

20:36

@quartata I think "slip" or "tuck" is correct word

@Maltysen that doesn't really convey "convert"ness though

Maltysen

tuck is nice, but its more like hiding something

quartata

Nudge?

Maltysen

oooh

Downgoat

@Maltysen yes that's what I'm going for

quartata

Like nudge the salt shaker over to the dead goat

Maltysen

20:38

._.

quartata

Oh, sorry

Maltysen

morbid much

Downgoat

@quartata seriously?

trichoplax

@Downgoat secrete?

Also means its own opposite, which is handy if you want to be ambiguous

Downgoat

i think when most people here secrete there gonna think of leaking (i.e. juicer secrets orange juice into cup)

Conor O'Brien

20:41

@trichoplax btw thanks for that edit to the reticular answer

Maltysen

"secrete the salt shaker over to the dead goat" roflamao

trichoplax

@ConorO'Brien You're welcome. Glad to hear I guessed right :)

quartata

@Downgoat There's no subtext here, honestly

mınxomaτ

I give up on the batch thing, maybe someone else has a bright idea

0

Q: Piping and redirection in Windows 10' new console mode?

Windows 10 has a new console mode. That mode enables higher dpi fonts, advanced selection etc. pp. But it seems to brake some functionality. The program in question is lxrun (wrapped among others by lxss programs like bash). When lxrun is started, it starts off in legacy console mode and prints...

windows batch-file wsl

Dennis

@mınxomaτ Looks to me like lxrun quits as soon as the file descriptor is closed. Have you tried piping in all the answers or make a program that sleeps after printing y/n?

The 29th Saltshaker

20:49

hello again

mınxomaτ

@Dennis Yes, Yes.

The 29th Saltshaker

out of curiosity does anyone happen to understand SQL / relational tables / ORMs / stuff like that?

mınxomaτ

This programs does the weirdest things.

The 29th Saltshaker

Not sure what the official name is for that subject

Dennis

OK then. This is weird.

mınxomaτ

20:50

I currently have about 8 IDA Pro sessions open trying to investigate where lxrun does what. Half of it doesn't make sense.

It's the most bodged program I've ever seen.

I could go the fast and easy way, but then every user would have to download over 1GB of useless junk.

Dennis

:/

Downgoat

there needs to be a "writing review".SE

brb proposing

The 29th Saltshaker

there needs to be a design SE :(

design questions are considered off topic like everywhere

mınxomaτ

design is as broad as "programming"

We have sites for graphics design, sound design, art etc.

The 29th Saltshaker

design as in "does this make sense / is it following good practice"

almost no place online to get help on that level

feersum

20:59

@mınxomaτ Googling gave me this. Would that work?

mınxomaτ

@feersum :/ requires installation

I think I've found away to intercept the lxrun download and patch the SHA signature.

feersum

What was wrong with e.g. hooking getch() anyway?

Downgoat

@The29thSaltshaker there is GD.SE

@The29thSaltshaker UX.SE

ColdGolf

CMC:

Your code must produce an output of its reverse. However, after reversing it, increment each letter by 3, according to the alphabet position.

After doing that, reverse it again, and then increment by 4.

Shortest in bytes wins.

trichoplax

@The29thSaltshaker Not sure quite what you're looking for but it might be worth reading through the on topic page for programmers.SE.

Releasing Helium Nuclei

21:11

@BaldBantha the OP says so

trichoplax

CMC: Output a number for which the number of distinct prime factors is a number for which the number of distinct prime factors is a number for which the number of distinct prime factors is prime.

flawr

@El'endiaStarman You might also like the stuff these guys do=)

Maltysen

@trichoplax discrete prime factors?

trichoplax

@Maltysen Let me double check my maths terminology...

@Maltysen My brain malfunctioned - I've applied a fix

Maltysen

k got it

The 29th Saltshaker

21:14

@trichoplax I've had plenty of design questions get knocked as off-topic there

trichoplax

@The29thSaltshaker Yes I understand not all design questions are on topic there, and they need to be quite specific.

ColdGolf

Nobody gonna solve my CMC? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/31807255#31807255

trichoplax

@The29thSaltshaker If it's just general discussion rather than a narrow question, maybe the chat of the relevant design related site would be better than their main site?

The 29th Saltshaker

IMO it is a narrow question

But you'll always get people who disagree

Zizouz212

What's the question?

trichoplax

21:17

Well breadth isn't the only consideration - I'm trying to give general advice as I don't know what you want to ask about

The 29th Saltshaker

@Zizouz212 programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/328883/…

trichoplax

@ColdGolf It might need more than 6 minutes ;)

ColdGolf

@trichoplax sure.

You'll get a useless prize in the end.

But a real one.

trichoplax

Also there's no rep for CMCs so it depends on there being people in chat at the time who notice it

Zizouz212

Well, it looks like it's doing pretty good there

Maltysen

21:18

@trichoplax gist.github.com/Maltysen/39e51f01b93dce872f758a320c4bef4b

wait shit I messed up

trichoplax

@Maltysen That was quick...

Maltysen

its wrong

gimme a second

Zizouz212

lol

ColdGolf

The near-useless digital prize awaits who solves the CMC first.

trichoplax

@Maltysen Also will probably be beaten by code that is shorter than the literal number

Zizouz212

21:19

Is it a bounty? Would I ever love those...

Maltysen

@trichoplax *F.fP_Z30030

not finishing

its the product of first 30030 primes numbers

trichoplax

Yeah I guess that'll take a while :)

Maltysen

its the smallest such number

the general code for this is u*F.fP_ZGQ2

your question represents the input 3

Adnan

05ab1e.tryitonline.net/#code=MzAwMzBGTnBpTn19KVA&input=MA

is that the number?

trichoplax

@Maltysen I half thought of asking with an input, but I thought I'd keep it simple for a CMC...

Maltysen

21:23

@trichoplax nah, it was pretty easy

you start with 2, so smallest number with 2 distinct prime factors is first two primes, 2 and 3 *'ed, so 6, then iterate

trichoplax

Nice

I didn't realise when I wrote it down how quickly it would grow

ColdGolf

@trichoplax 6 min are up. I'll still wait.

trichoplax

@ColdGolf No I meant only 6 minutes had passed when you asked if nobody is going to solve it...

ColdGolf

@trichoplax I''m waiting for a solution. There's a prize tho.

Useless, but it's not merely a bounty

Maltysen

@trichoplax each iteration grows (n*logn)^n

trichoplax

21:27

@Maltysen OK that's quite dramatic...

@ColdGolf Is the increment by 4 also applied to every letter?

Maltysen

i'm not exactly sure about the ^n but its something like that

ColdGolf

@trichoplax Letter, not number tho.

Maltysen

@trichoplax the nth prime number is ~n*logn and we're multiplying the first n together at each step

(where n is the current value of the thing)

trichoplax

@ColdGolf So the reversals cancel out, and you just need to increment each letter by 7?

Maltysen

I guess we can get the actual complexity of the whole thing from master theorem or something

ColdGolf

21:29

cancel out? do they?

Maltysen

someone better than me at this want to do that?

ColdGolf

@Maltysen do what

trichoplax

@ColdGolf If you reverse, increase the letters, then reverse again, that's the same as just increasing the letters, right?

Maltysen

1 min ago, by Maltysen

I guess we can get the actual complexity of the whole thing from master theorem or something

ColdGolf

my CMC?

Maltysen

21:30

analyze trichoplaxe's CMC

trichoplax

@trichoplax this one

Maltysen

@trichoplax oh wait found better approximation than nlogn^n

its actually O(e^(nlogn)

@trichoplax oh got actual number for 3 iterations

trichoplax

The one after 30030?

Maltysen

yeah: gist.github.com/Maltysen/39e51f01b93dce872f758a320c4bef4b

ColdGolf

My CMC'C prize has been upgreaded

Maltysen

21:35

@trichoplax time for a new oeis

recursive primordials

if it doesn't exist...

an I guess that would actually be iteration number 4 if we make the first one 1

trichoplax

Now I have to check... Hard to type such long numbers into the search though ;)

Maltysen

oeis.org/…

don't know if its the same

no its different

trichoplax

Was just looking at that one, trying to see if it matched the definition

Maltysen

wait it might be the same

trichoplax

a(n) is an a(n-1)-almost prime

Maltysen

21:39

no it is the same I think

trichoplax

squarefree means distinct prime factors

smallest means it's the same sequence, right?

Maltysen

yeah

ColdGolf

My CMC's prize has been upgraded again.

trichoplax

I'm not certain though...

Maltysen

he said a(5) was a 152104-digit number

ColdGolf

21:41

what sequence is this?

Maltysen

@ColdGolf a(n)=product of first a(n-1) prime numbers

a(0)=0

ColdGolf

Easy as cake.

trichoplax

@Maltysen It says it grows faster than Ackermann...

Maltysen

damn

and unlike ackermann its only tail recursive, nothing more

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ

911 = 9/11 ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED

ColdGolf

21:43

CMC: Prove Euclid's proo

proof*

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ

@ColdGolf Euclid's proof?

ColdGolf

Yes

of primes

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ

?

trichoplax

@Maltysen I can't quite follow the sequence it refers to though - it might just be based on part of the Ackermann function

ColdGolf

"There is an infinite amount of prime numbers" prove this using code.

Zizouz212

21:44

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ o_O

trichoplax

@ColdGolf Proof by exhaustion?

ColdGolf

By code. Any method you like.

trichoplax

@ColdGolf By the way, you can edit chat messages for 2 minutes after posting. Just press up on the keyboard, or click on the drop down arrow to the left of the message

ColdGolf

Sure.

Euclid rocks!

Euclid <3

Maltysen

@trichoplax which one?

New Sandboxed Posts

21:53

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Iпtгodцctioп Iп tиe Iпteгпets, people sometimes liкe to stчlize tиeiг posts дs if tиeч щeгe щгitteп iп д diffeгeпt scгipt. Tидпкs to tиe пotoгietч of Soviet Яцssiд, tиe Cчгчlic scгipt seems to бe pдгticцlдгlч fдvoгed. Бцt щидt cдп д пext-dooг tгoll do if tиeч'гe пot д pгogгдmmeг? Mдпцдllч гeplд...

ColdGolf

CMC: generate x2+ny^2 for n>1 prime number

trichoplax

> The current sequence is analogously the primorial(e)th recurrence but grows faster even than A014221 (Ackermann function A_3(n+1))

Maltysen

I guess A(3, n+1)?

trichoplax

@Maltysen Yes - I think that's it

Maltysen

why that specific one...

oh, "This sequence has tetrational growth."

trichoplax

21:55

Perhaps that's the fastest growing one that doesn't beat our sequence?

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ

@ColdGolf I'd do it in Coq if it had any notion of sets of numbers

ColdGolf

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ heh

Jonathan Allan

ping @Dennis... I have made this (almost certainly not greatly golfed) Jelly chain: “/\,“\/”yḊḊṖṖ“\¶”ṭṭ“/” for the ASCII pyramid and cant for the life of me work out how to recurse it (cant seem to get a repeat, reduce or a loop working!) not much on your wiki or in the tips thread on recursion and loops - any hints you could give would be cool...

@Dennis example input //\/\/\\

ColdGolf

That's Jelly, folks!

Maltysen

do we have no challenges at all about primordials?

trichoplax

21:58

Primorials? You should make one called "Primorial soup..." :P

Jonathan Allan

Oh man I have a python class for the primordial base knocking around somewhere...

807 bytes though :(

trichoplax

Primordial soup

"Primordial soup" is a term introduced by the Soviet biologist Alexander Oparin. In 1924, he proposed a theory of the origin of life on Earth through the transformation, during the gradual chemical evolution of particles that contain carbon in the primordial soup. Biochemist Robert Shapiro has summarized the "primordial soup" theory of Oparin and Haldane in its "mature form" as follows: Early Earth had a chemically reducing atmosphere. This atmosphere, exposed to energy in various forms, produced simple organic compounds ("monomers"). These compounds accumulated in a "soup", which may have been...

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