The Nineteenth Byte

Downgoat

18:00

@zyabin101 AFAIK Peanut hasn't been in this room so that won't ping him/her

Sherlock9

I am bookmarking this link for later

zyabin101

@Downgoat But I need to interview him on the open-ended tag.

(Also, he should have probably done discourse on creating the tag on meta first.)

Downgoat

how many questions did (s)he tag it with?

zyabin101

One.

codegolf.stackexchange.com/revisions/44680/133

A minute later, the tag was removed.

Dennis

I could eleven a ping, but it doesn't seem appropriate for a on-time occurrence.

New Main Posts

18:06

0

Q: Dyalog's International Problem Solving Competition (Phase I) – Code Golf Edition

Every year, Dyalog Ltd. holds a student competition. The challenge there is to write good APL code. However, this is a multiple-holes (common theme is manipulation of arrays of any type) code-golf version of the Phase I problems – open to any language. Enjoy! Objective Write ten complete progra...

Downgoat

@zyabin101 then i dont think its that big of a deal, just roll it back and it will get auto-deleted soon

Business Cat

Aren't unused tags automatically deleted every so often?

Downgoat

speaking of tags: does anyone have a cheddar question that can be asked on SO so there can be a cheddar tag :3

Business Cat

Only a few people could answer it though :3

Downgoat

maybe i should rename Cheddar to PythonScript to leech off of Python's popularity like JS did with Java....

Dennis

18:10

ಠ_ಠ

TùxCräftîñg

no love for neoscript ;_;

Adnan

flags as offensive

Dennis

Aug 7 at 0:01, by Dennis

Is Why on Earth did you choose Node? a valid question?

2

Downgoat

i think thatll get closed on SO but if you wanna ask it go ahead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sherlock9

@Dennis Node.js? What's wrong (in summary) with Node.js?

TùxCräftîñg

18:12

node.js is great

just it's a bit too much asynchronous for a normal language >_>

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg neovim > vim. so my reflexive property neoscript > script

quartata

@Sherlock9 Node JS somehow manages to make JavaScript worse.

It's truly an achievement.

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg s/event-based/asynchronous/

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat so you like neoscript :D

Downgoat

async is good for doing parallel tasks but it's not easy for people coming from python, etc.

quartata

18:13

They took the one best part about JS (its functional design) and made it tedious to work with by putting thousands upon thousands of callback junk

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg of course! :D

Dennis

@Sherlock9 Closed as too broad.

quartata

@Downgoat There's a difference between using async for complicated networking and being forced to use async to read a line from stdin

Sherlock9

Which is why I asked this in chat and not on SO :D

Downgoat

@quartata functional isn't bad :/ 500 nested functions is

TùxCräftîñg

18:14

^^^

Downgoat

@quartata ok fair. i very much dislike that too

TùxCräftîñg

and adding a Sync suffix to literally everything is silly

Downgoat

oh hey look i found a thing:

blog.vihan.org/index.php/2016/05/16/synchronously-async-ing

TùxCräftîñg

#shamelessselfadvertisment

Business Cat

That hashtag is too long, you should golf it

Downgoat

18:16

^

TùxCräftîñg

#ssa

Dennis

OK, I'm noticing a problem here.

$ time python3.5 -c 'from sympy import*'

real    0m0.332s
user    0m0.316s
sys     0m0.015s
$ time python3.5 -c 'from sympy import*;exp(S("3000.1",rational=True)).evalf(1612)'

real    0m0.344s
user    0m0.321s
sys     0m0.023s
$ time python3.5 -c 'from number import *;Number("3000.1").exp()'

real    0m6.352s
user    0m6.341s
sys     0m0.014s
$ time python3.5 -c 'from gnumber import *;Gnumber("3000.1").exp()'

real    0m26.337s
user    0m26.318s
sys     0m0.030s

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg Secret Snail Authority?

TùxCräftîñg

>_>

wow good async support in ES7 :O

the dream of every nodejs dev is now reality

zyabin101

@TùxCräftîñg It's shameful unless the person imports a shameless plug just before he plugs.

Sherlock9

18:19

@BusinessCat #shamelessplug

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg you should celebrate it be sharing that wonderful article i link with everyone you knowo

@zyabin101 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Sherlock9

Plug being slang for "self-advertisement"

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat so... who?

zyabin101

How exactly, I don't know. But there are limits on shameless plugs...

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg your friends, family, etc.

TùxCräftîñg

18:20

my family dont code and i have no friends ;_;

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg oh ok, so i guess we're in the same boat

though idk if penguins need to go in boats

Optimizer

import plug from shameless;

4

TùxCräftîñg

Y U SEMICOLON IN PYTHON ಠ_ಠ

Optimizer

;

Downgoat

^^

TùxCräftîñg

18:22

Y U EVIL LLAMA

DJMcMayhem

It works

Adnan

@Dennis Speed isn't really Python's strong point, is it :p

DJMcMayhem

@Optimizer shouldn't it technically be from shameless import plug?

Optimizer

it was not python

:/

TùxCräftîñg

so it was what?

Downgoat

18:23

@Adnan still better than cheddar with 500ms startup tine

Optimizer

you all have such huge snake fetish

TùxCräftîñg

@Adnan and the 5sec of the old neoscript launcher ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Optimizer

@TùxCräftîñg developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/web/javascript/reference/…

Downgoat

@Optimizer that is confirmed my the starboard

quartata

@ConorO'Brien @EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ New hitsound:

Modern Designs

►

I'm on a mission to find progressively louder ones

Downgoat

18:24

@Optimizer can't be JS, JS requires quote

zyabin101

@Optimizer SyntaxError: not a chance

TùxCräftîñg

@Optimizer the correct form is import plug from "shameless"

Optimizer

oh variables dont work?

Downgoat

no thye do

Optimizer

I mean if shameless is a variable with value "shameless"

Business Cat

18:26

import java.plug.shameless;

Optimizer

I guess they dont.. spec doesnt list

TùxCräftîñg

@BusinessCat Y U JAVA ಠ_ಠ

Optimizer

const me = shameless.plug;

Dennis

@Adnan OK, but sympy is so much faster than my implementation...

Business Cat

shameless_plug = require("shameless_plug");

Happy now?

TùxCräftîñg

18:27

include("shameless"):plug()

in neoscript

Downgoat

@BusinessCat aaahhhhh require

TùxCräftîñg

neoscript have include ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Downgoat

+1

TùxCräftîñg

which is just a cross-env wrapper for require :/

Optimizer

neoscript can dodge bullets too

quartata

18:28

@TùxCräftîñg I don't understand your emote usage

TùxCräftîñg

@Optimizer :O

Downgoat

Are the updated cheddar docs clear?

TùxCräftîñg

@quartata me too i dont understand my emote usage

Optimizer

@Downgoat yes, its very clear that I don't want to be using Cheddar ever.

specially for golfing

or in production

or both.

Downgoat

;_; y u do dis llama

goats > llamas btw

Optimizer

18:29

lol keep dreaming

TùxCräftîñg

so you can try neoscript

PhiNotPi

phis > goats

TùxCräftîñg

it's better for golfing

Downgoat

Cheddar does beat python & js & ruby though on almost eveyr challenge

DJMcMayhem

Llamas don't eat cans

Optimizer

18:29

and it beats java too.

are you trying to make a point?

quartata

@Downgoat but not perl

TùxCräftîñg

neoscript beat cheddar

Business Cat

@Optimizer include("red_pill"):take()

Downgoat

@quartata usually equal length with perl

@TùxCräftîñg because neoscript is golf oriented

TùxCräftîñg

not really

Optimizer

18:31

@Downgoat and Cheddar is goat oriented?

Downgoat

@Optimizer yes, and goat is oriented down, so by transitive property, cheddar is down

Optimizer

Is the cheddar made from your milk ?

Business Cat

Is it goat golfing or code goating?

Downgoat

@Optimizer no it is made from the goats working in the cheese factory

@BusinessCat good questionp

@TùxCräftîñg link pls

this is uncited

Optimizer

Downgoat

18:32

make sure that cheddar on that challenge was v1.x

flawr

Oh hi @Downgoat

Downgoat

@flawr hai

flawr

These goats are @Downgoating too:

Goat Belly Sliding

►

quartata

@Downgoat rly

TùxCräftîñg

0

A: Print/Output the L-phabet

Neoscript, 62 bytes (non-competing) a='A:[]:'Zeach n=0:[]:25console:log(a[n]*n+a:slice(n):fuse());

Downgoat

18:33

@quartata depends on challenge. on string base challnges cheddar does good. Not so much on array challenges

TùxCräftîñg

i annihilate cheddar

wat

quartata

@Downgoat Perl was literally made for string based challenges

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat it cant be golfed? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

DJMcMayhem

You know what does even better in string based challenges?

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg wow you beat cheddar by just 3 bytes yet your language is so compliant

quartata

18:35

@DJMcMayhem Cinnamon Gum

TùxCräftîñg

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

quartata

:P

Downgoat

@quartata i know it was based off replacing awk, right?

DJMcMayhem

@quartata that's exactly what I was going to say!

T. Lukin

What is all this hate on other peoples languages?

TùxCräftîñg

18:36

@Downgoat principaly because neoscript syntax is terse and tokenizer is permissive

Downgoat

@T.Lukin because people hate goats and cheese ;_;

quartata

It's friendly banter. You'll know when we're bashing JS trust me

@DJMcMayhem hahahahaha

T. Lukin

@quartata I'm good with bashing JS

New Main Posts

4

Q: Input ∩ Source Code

Intro The challenge is to create a program/function that prints the intersection of its own source code and a given string input. This is code golf and to be more precise: Let I be the input set {"a","b","c"} Let S be the source code set {"b","f"} Then the intersection is what they shar...

code-golf quine

TùxCräftîñg

even by beating cheddar i dont get upvotes? ಠ_ಠ

DJMcMayhem

18:37

Did you figure out what you want for "loops" yet?

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg i have no idea what you're code is doing though

quartata

Still pondering

Downgoat

a='A:[]:'Zeach n=0:[]:25

what is Zeach

quartata

I might do math things first.

@Downgoat Single character strings like CJam

TùxCräftîñg

^

quartata

18:37

read like 'A':[]:'Z'

Downgoat

oh

still i dont think its good idea to allow properties without . or anything unless you're going fr golf

DJMcMayhem

Bahaha! Higgs bot has 5 answers and still at 1

Sorry tux

TùxCräftîñg

;_;

@Downgoat ?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata lol

Downgoat

>_> @TùxCräftîñg post an answer in cheddar and ill give it bounty :D

Adnan

18:40

@DJMcMayhem Hahahahhaha

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat i dont know how to cheese ;_;

quartata

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I think this is a little quieter than the one I have now actually so I'll have to edit it in Audacity

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat link to question?

@quartata more lol

Downgoat

@Optimizer how u hack my instagram and find my golfing pics ;_;

@TùxCräftîñg docs.cheddar.vihan.org or ask the goat

DJMcMayhem

@quartata What are you doing in audacity?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:41

@quartata wtf

is that 9 sec clip your sound

quartata

I haven't decided quite where to cut it off yet

I'm thinking of starting at logo

I'm hoping to increase my tolerance until I can tolerate ~125dB hitsounds

DJMcMayhem

O_o wat?

TùxCräftîñg

cheddar> 1:[]:10
Syntax Error: Unexpected token at 1:1
1 | 1:[]:10
  |  ^
cheddar> [1..10]
Syntax Error: Unexpected token at 1:2
1 | [1..10]
  |   ^

halp cheddar dont have ranges

quartata

@DJMcMayhem I'm just kidding, I don't feel like damaging my ears

Downgoat

@quartata considering how big ears pichus have idk if you can handle that

@TùxCräftîñg a|>b it's inclusive

TùxCräftîñg

18:43

k

Downgoat

|>a is [0, a)

TùxCräftîñg

cheddar> Infinity
Runtime Error: Attempted to access undefined variable `Infinity`
cheddar> Math.Infinity
Runtime Error: Math has no property Infinity

y u joke cheese? ಠ_ಠ

Downgoat

there is no Infinite in cheddar?

Leaky Nun

@TùxCräftîñg Just do 1e1000

TùxCräftîñg

cheddar> 1e1000
Syntax Error: Unexpected token at 1:1
1 | 1e1000
  |  ^

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Downgoat

18:45

Proposal: I will give +50pt bounty on any Cheddar answer that A) outgolfes all other real langs (python, js, ruby, perl) B) (views/days) > 200 & days > 2

TùxCräftîñg

good i have hanged cheddar by ranging to infinity

Downgoat

....

im not sure what you were expecting

TùxCräftîñg

cheddar> |>(10**10000)

<--- Last few GCs --->

  134238 ms: Scavenge 1390.4 (1434.2) -> 1390.4 (1434.2) MB, 10.0 / 0 ms [allocation failure].
  134248 ms: Scavenge 1390.4 (1434.2) -> 1390.4 (1434.2) MB, 9.6 / 0 ms [allocation failure].
  134257 ms: Scavenge 1390.4 (1434.2) -> 1390.4 (1434.2) MB, 9.5 / 0 ms [allocation failure].
  134266 ms: Scavenge 1390.4 (1434.2) -> 1390.4 (1434.2) MB, 9.2 / 0 ms [allocation failure].
  134277 ms: Scavenge 1390.4 (1434.2) -> 1390.4 (1434.2) MB, 10.9 / 0 ms [allocation failure].

Leaky Nun

@Downgoat Pretty sure that has happened already

TùxCräftîñg

brb (50% of chance this mean see you tomorrow)

Leaky Nun

18:46

34 secs ago, by Downgoat

im not sure what you were expecting

DJMcMayhem

Ooh, challenge idea. BRB

Leaky Nun

@DJMcMayhem better post it quick

won't be long until my body fails me

Business Cat

My body is always ready

DJMcMayhem

Haha, unfortunately I probably won't post it soon

Bizzy rn maybe tonight though

Leaky Nun

@DJMcMayhem Define "tonight"

Downgoat

18:52

@DJMcMayhem ;_; pls tell challenge idea ~~so i can make cheddar builtin~~ because im curious

Leaky Nun

in terms of GMT

Sherlock9

Oh yeah. Almost 2 am here and 3 am for Leaky

Leaky Nun

@Sherlock9 yep

DJMcMayhem

@LeakyNun Does GMT == UTC?

Leaky Nun

@DJMcMayhem yes

GMT+8 == UTC+8

DJMcMayhem

18:54

Normally I'm MST (UTC-6) but I'm traveling right now

Gtg Bai

Downgoat

bai

Sherlock9

Goodnight

T. Lukin

Is there an online cheddar interpreter?

Leaky Nun

@T.Lukin cheddar.tryitonline.net

Poke

19:14

eh?

UTC isn't a time zone

it's a standard

Leaky Nun

Oh really

Releasing Helium Nuclei

UTC+0 = GMT, UTC+2 = EET etc

Downgoat

@Poke that's like saying ecmascript is not a language it's a standard

i mean techinically it's a standard but it's a language

quartata

@Geobits Yikes, I started a regex match on this transcript five minutes ago and it hasn't finished yet

Zgarb

Jellyfish reference

I've been writing that the whole night. :P

Nathan Merrill

19:21

good job!

Zgarb

I hadn't realized how crazy the overloading gets for operators.

There are 12 cases for /

Poke

@Downgoat People write code in es6. No one lives in UTC "timezone"

Downgoat

@Poke no, people write code in node v4.2.4, but the code follows standards of ES6

Poke

ok then ecmascript still isn't a language

Downgoat

but ECMAScript is the language, node is only the implementation

quartata

19:27

People write code that follows the standards of ES6 but they don't write code that follows the standards of ES

Poke

es6 is an iteration of es...

quartata

UTC is the time system. UTC+0 is a time zone

Poke

GMT is a timezone that is evaluated at UTC+0

Conor O'Brien

> -_- why is it only lua, what about people who code batch and not lua...

Helka Homba

strawpoll.me/10962134

Conor O'Brien

19:30

(a comment on a minecraft mod that allows you to use lua in game)

Downgoat

@ConorO'Brien what about the people who code cheese ;_;

Poke

If we really want to split hairs UT is more accurately GMT than UTC

UTC accounts for leap seconds and such

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat gl getting that in minecraft >_<

Poke

there's also UT1 but that's based on the sun or something

Downgoat

@ConorO'Brien k brb

Conor O'Brien

19:32

xD

Downgoat

o wait i dont hav minecraft >_>

Helka Homba

people here are eager to fight ._.

quartata

@Downgoat You really want to write Java code?

Conor O'Brien

@HelkaHomba FITE ME

Downgoat

no but i will do it for the cheese

@HelkaHomba ._.

Conor O'Brien

19:33

@quartata I think you can use other languages nowadays

quartata

@HelkaHomba I picked that for fencing

@ConorO'Brien No, you really can't

Conor O'Brien

^^

quartata

At least not unless you want people to hate you

Helka Homba

@ConorO'Brien Dragons don't exist! Done.

Conor O'Brien

@HelkaHomba Counterexample: me/

@quartata someone made a mod in python iirc

quartata

19:34

@ConorO'Brien Yeah and people probably hate them for it

Downgoat

@ConorO'Brien wait wat

quartata

Forge is the standard. Not using it is bad

Downgoat

that means i can make mod with cheddar

Conor O'Brien

@quartata why?

Downgoat

trying to make python bindings for cheddar

T. Lukin

19:36

@quartata Not necessarily bad, just unnecessarily complicated, unless your writing a core mod like optifine

Poke

core mod

T. Lukin

I dunno what to call it, but one that actually changes the underlying mechanics of the game, rather than just adding stuff to it

Helka Homba

@ConorO'Brien Conor DNE

Poke

@T.Lukin you mean like... /me cringes terrafirmacraft?

quartata

@T.Lukin The problem with not using Forge is that it completely destroys interaction with other Forge mods. Modpack maker get relly ad whn you don't use oredict and the like

@Poke TFC is amazing

Poke

19:39

noooo

it's so dumb

T. Lukin

@Poke Yeah, I guess

Downgoat

@HelkaHomba conor do not erase?

zyabin101

@Downgoat Conor do not exist.

T. Lukin

@quartata True. However there are some mods (like optifine) which really can't be done using forge

Conor O'Brien

I exist plenty :/

Downgoat

19:41

@zyabin101 ._.

quartata

@Poke Have you ever played it? Started a new world in it a while back and it's possibly one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in MC in years

zyabin101

I want to try the website crawlers I downloaded on a specific GitHub pages site, but I'm not sure if it is OK under GitHub's terms and conditions. :/

Poke

@quartata I have. It took about a year to do pretty much anything. The curve was so slow.

quartata

If it respects robots.txt it's fine

Helka Homba

@ConorO'Brien Smallcaps Conor exists no longer at least :o

Downgoat

19:43

@zyabin101 help.github.com/articles/github-terms-of-service <- solution

T. Lukin

@quartata It depends what kinda stuff you enjoy. I personally like building huge farms and stuff, and playing in any types of modpacks, not just TFC, kinda ruins the idea of taking vanilla as far as possible

El'endia Starman

CRISPR seems pretty incredible.

quartata

@Poke You can get to lvl 2 tools in about 2 days if you spawn next to a river

El'endia Starman

Incidentally, wasn't it @HelkaHomba that was wondering about what the next big social issue would be?

Helka Homba

Probably

Poke

19:44

@quartata that is incredibly slow...

El'endia Starman

I previously thought gene editing would be fairly far off, but given what I just learned, it'll come sooner than expected, and with tons of controversy too.

quartata

On par with vanilla. On average you'll get iron tools in two days.

zyabin101

@Downgoat Doesn't mention web crawlers. :/

Downgoat

then you can asume its ok

just respect github.com/robots.txt

quartata

Mid game progression is a little on the slow side but there's also a lot more content in it

Once you have a blast furnace set up you can pretty much get to anything fairly easily

Poke

19:47

i'd rather just use buildcraft or AE or industrial craft, red power 2 (or whatever replaced it), etc.

automation is dope

zyabin101

Well... @_@

Poke

tinker's construct is nice too

zyabin101

Doesn't mention GitHub Pages.

Unless that is explicitly allowed it would be NG.

quartata

@Poke One of the reasons I like TC so much is because it reminds me of TFC :PP

Poke

to each his own

quartata

19:52

I do wish TFC made it easier to get redstone though

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata TFC?

only thing I get is team fortress classic

flawr

> "Allow: /humans.txt"

quartata

TerraFirmaCraft

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oh cool

@flawr o_o i looked and didn't expect that to be real

quartata

@Geobits Hey could I see the code you used to scrape the transcript? I need to tweak the format a little bit

Transcript for