The Nineteenth Byte

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ^

proof

:P

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ are you still updating cergos?

>_ಠ_ಠ_>

kinda sorta

9 secs ago, by Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

>_ಠ_ಠ_>

That was 3 months ago.

And I even gave you seomthing to post. >_>

6:12 PM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You need a table for this

no

I have my autocorrect so tha gives ಠ_ಠ.

    >_ಠ_ಠ_>  \----------\
       |    /  \          \
      /\      / \___________\

2

wtg

@Bálint Stop editing it >_>

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 DOne

6:15 PM

Dude's head getting speared by a arrow which kills a grid bug?

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ table flip

that looks wrong

You wanted to post >-ಠ_ಠ->?

no

Then what's this: >_ಠ_ಠ_>?

6:17 PM

@Bálint ruined it for you in the startboard.

urwelcum

>_> mixed with ಠ_ಠ

@Optimizer ಠ್ಗಠ

3

wow, that's a new

@Optimizer I browsed trough the Kannadian alphabet

And that's aparently a symbol

not the eyes

the usage/placement of the mouth part.

6:18 PM

ಠ್ಗ <- This is a separate thing

its not 2 chars?

@Optimizer Try copying it, it's actually an eye with 2 modifiers

hmmmm;

So, it's technically 3

@Bálint ... Yes.

6:20 PM

ah

@Optimizer I even found a lenny face alternative: (ರ್‍ತರ್‍)

Sort of

But -.(o.o).-

peddy face?

pedo-lenny

the worse gets worse

@Optimizer Pedo? Pronounced Pe-doh? That looks made-up...

This is my new favourite: ಠ್ಕಠ

6:21 PM

ನಾನು ಕನ್ನಡ ಇಷ್ಟ

:P

@Bálint If the mouth was different, it could be the "anime/manga exasperation sweat drop" thing.

I expect it's almost as expensive as PlayDoh!

ಏಕೆ ನೀವು ಭಾವನೆಯನ್ನು ಒಂದು ಸಂತೋಷವನ್ನು ಭಾಷೆ ಹಾಳುಮಾಡಲು

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ One of these characters is 3-7 bytes...let's make a language out of them!

ಠ_ಠ would be the end of the program

...Or an exception

6:24 PM

ಕ	ಖ	ಗ	ಘ	ಙ	ಚ	ಛ	ಜ	ಝ	ಞ	ಟ	ಠ	ಡ	ಢ	ಣ	ತ	ಥ	ದ	ಧ	ನ	ಪ	ಫ	ಬ	ಭ	ಮ	ಯ	ರ	ಱ	ಲ	ವ	ಶ	ಷ	ಸ	ಹ	ಳ	ೞ
ಕ	ಕ್ಕ	ಕ್ಖ	ಕ್ಗ	ಕ್ಘ	ಕ್ಙ	ಕ್ಚ	ಕ್ಛ	ಕ್ಜ	ಕ್ಝ	ಕ್ಞ	ಕ್ಟ	ಕ್ಠ	ಕ್ಡ	ಕ್ಢ	ಕ್ಣ	ಕ್ತ	ಕ್ಥ	ಕ್ದ	ಕ್ಧ	ಕ್ನ	ಕ್ಪ	ಕ್ಫ	ಕ್ಬ	ಕ್ಭ	ಕ್ಮ	ಕ್ಯ	ಕ್ರ	ಕ್ಱ	ಕ್ಲ	ಕ್ವ	ಕ್ಶ	ಕ್ಷ	ಕ್ಸ	ಕ್ಹ	ಕ್ಳ	ಕ್ೞ
ಖ	ಖ್ಕ	ಖ್ಖ	ಖ್ಗ	ಖ್ಘ	ಖ್ಙ	ಖ್ಚ	ಖ್ಛ	ಖ್ಜ	ಖ್ಝ	ಖ್ಞ	ಖ್ಟ	ಖ್ಠ	ಖ್ಡ	ಖ್ಢ	ಖ್ಣ	ಖ್ತ	ಖ್ಥ	ಖ್ದ	ಖ್ಧ	ಖ್ನ	ಖ್ಪ	ಖ್ಫ	ಖ್ಬ	ಖ್ಭ	ಖ್ಮ	ಖ್ಯ	ಖ್ರ	ಖ್ಱ	ಖ್ಲ	ಖ್ವ	ಖ್ಶ	ಖ್ಷ	ಖ್ಸ	ಖ್ಹ	ಖ್ಳ	ಖ್ೞ
ಗ	ಗ್ಕ	ಗ್ಖ	ಗ್ಗ	ಗ್ಘ	ಗ್ಙ	ಗ್ಚ	ಗ್ಛ	ಗ್ಜ	ಗ್ಝ	ಗ್ಞ	ಗ್ಟ	ಗ್ಠ	ಗ್ಡ	ಗ್ಢ	ಗ್ಣ	ಗ್ತ	ಗ್ಥ	ಗ್ದ	ಗ್ಧ	ಗ್ನ	ಗ್ಪ	ಗ್ಫ	ಗ್ಬ	ಗ್ಭ	ಗ್ಮ	ಗ್ಯ	ಗ್ರ	ಗ್ಱ	ಗ್ಲ	ಗ್ವ	ಗ್ಶ	ಗ್ಷ	ಗ್ಸ	ಗ್ಹ	ಗ್ಳ	ಗ್ೞ

full list

ಠ್ಗ <- This thing is 9 bytes by "itself"

yeah

@Bálint Only in some encodings...

@wizzwizz4 I meant in UTF-8

I think that is only in one encoding. :P

6:28 PM

I go make a hypercube animation, be nice

bye!

@Bálint Yes, that is the coding I was thinking of.

@Bálint O.O :-)

And I also make a misc folder on my desktop, it's getting ridicilous how I put random stuff in the "accesories" folder

retrocomputing SE? Oh ... that sounds like a dangerous site for me.

lol

6:30 PM

@TimmyD It's a really great site.

@Bálint You... That... How... Why?!?

@wizzwizz4 Hm? What why?

@Bálint Why do you put things in the Accessories folder?

@TimmyD It's really fun, I just got 170 reputations from 2 questions

@Bálint I got most of my reputation from one question!

Now I'm a moderator.

@wizzwizz4 I made an accesory folder for my JavaScript libraries, such as the math library I'm going to use in a minute

6:31 PM

It's a really great site.

On the desktop

@Bálint Oh, makes sense.

Yes, but I already spend too much time on this network ...

It's funny how we are holding multiple conversations at once, and replying to posts in the wrong order.

It's funny how we can follow it.

@wizzwizz4 [citation-needed]

6:34 PM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It's funny how [citation-needed] gets so many stars.

@wizzwizz4 Yeah, I didn't think either I would do 11th grade matematics as a 9th grader

@wizzwizz4 eh

@Bálint I found a nice set of 4d animations a while ago, brb finding it again.

Define "retrocomputing" in less than ten words

@Bálint We're programmers. We don't care about which grade our mathematics is. We just learn it so we can program, or if we are otherwise curious.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ old geekiness

3

6:35 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ retrocomputing

Done

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Retrocomputing

0/10 copy paste not enough difference

@Bálint that's how you define recursion

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ And vectors

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Stop editing and editing until you get stars. You get a lot of stars that way, and I want more stars than you.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Not copy-paste.

6:37 PM

@wizzwizz4 ..

I'm not.

I'm trying to get under 10 chars.

@wizzwizz4 please don't assume somebody is trying to do something.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Oh. Well, I suppose golfing is an exception.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I was trying to get stars by claiming your stars for myself. But -.(o.o).-

Well the good news is if the disk fails they can't launch the nukes. One day we might all owe our lives to a bad 8" floppy. — mnem May 26 at 16:27

2 weeks ago, we (my class and I) started learning very very basic vector mathematics, somehow, it came up, that I know a lot of linear algebra, so my teacher started asking me about vector operations (mainly what their result is). She tried to search for something, I didn't know.

Well....she failed.

10/10

OK, so I took a peek at retrocomputing SE ... seems not quite exactly what triggers my nostalgia, so I'm safe. Phew.

6:50 PM

@TimmyD Ask something about your nostalgia.

It was at this point TimmyD never saw TNB again.

4

@Fatalize wat?

the euro football tournament?

@aditsu France V Romania opening match

filthy casual

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ do you use the steam mobile auth thingy?

6:52 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ We saw him though, from time to time, when he passed through the blogosphere, immersed in research and answering.

@Fatalize orly?

@Fatalize He lives in hong kong.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ but he's Romanian isn't he

I know how to summon moderators! :-)

damn you chromium, stop crashing

6:52 PM

@wizzwizz4 -.-

@Fatalize i think so

@wizzwizz4 don't

yes you're both right

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ :-(

@quartata do you use that steam mobile authenticator?

I don't really follow sports

Geobits

6:53 PM

Oh, cool! I found the ignore button. I forgot about that thing :)

@wizzwizz4 they are probably doing mod stuff or chilling. They don't want to be summoned.

@Geobits gg

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ no I need to get it set up sometime

okay

That's why I haven't traded in a long time

I want to know whether it will give annoying notifications.

6:54 PM

@wizzwizz4 Oh, you mean flagging? That actually won't work, since your flags take effect immediately.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Well you need it if you want to trade

@quartata yeah, I gave something to conor and he won't get it for another 14 days.

Whoa, 14 days? It used to be 3

Holy fuck I hate Valve even more now

@quartata yeah, ik. But I don't have a phone to put it on that I have full access too.

@quartata ikr

but anyway, I hope Romania wins :)

6:55 PM

^ delusional

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It can be a tablet or anything that the Steam mobile app runs on

no

needs to be phone

@wizzwizz4 I've not really run into any problems that I'd need a Q&A on. I've got my consoles (mostly) squared away, and I know what I need for the remaining ones ... my early-90s gaming computer is running smoothly ...

No it doesn't

yes it does

i just checked liek 5 min ago

6:55 PM

The only time it sends you an SMS is the first time you activate it

> I don't have a phone. Can I still use the mobile authenticator?
Not at this time. Support for standalone authenticators is being considered, but is not available today.

Everything else is done through the app

okay cool

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ they're wrong (don't trust steam knowledge base in general)

@TimmyD Ask the questions, then post the answers. Self answering is good too, you know!

6:56 PM

@Fatalize any live stream?

@aditsu not sure you cant watch it outside France

if I REALLY cared, I would get a temporary VPS in France :p

@wizzwizz4 Q&A sites are a very different model than how I acquire or disseminate knowledge. I stumbled into PPCG (I don't rightly remember how), and it's likely because this is not a Q&A site is the reason I've hung around.

@TimmyD It's similar for me actually. I prefer the Stack Exchange not-a-Q&A sites to the Q&A sites.

7:13 PM

Uh-oh, everyone behave. Doorknob and Alex just arrived.

heh, apparently youtube knows how to identify and block live streams

@TimmyD Weeeoooo weeeeooooo fun police on the scene

@AlexA. Weuweuw?

@TimmyD Hey, I'm a fun police too!

(What does fun police mean?)

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ...what??

7:16 PM

haha, I found a stream, but I'm not 100% sure it's the right game

@wizzwizz4 urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fun%20police

Essentially, mods / goody-goody-two-shoes / etc., that police all the "fun" out of an environment.

it's in Russian :D

@aditsu Let's get @zʏᴀʙiɴ101 to read it.

you mean to listen

but I think it's the right one

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ eh?

7:20 PM

So, we've noticed people have varying expectations about what 19B's atmosphere should be like, especially regarding signal:noise and such. We've drafted a set of proposed guidelines which we think overall uphold the general purpose of SE chat. It might be a change for some of you, but we want to create a more enjoyable environment for everyone, and that starts with everyone clearly knowing what to expect. Thoughts?

30

@Doorknob these seem nice

just one thing, is "Stay on-topic with questions, and avoiding asking unrelated "homework" questions." necessary?, the one about minimal research seems to be more appropriate

I was expecting more avocads :p

> Act welcoming to everyone, especially newcomers. The Nineteenth Byte may be a user’s first experience with PPCG, so be a good ambassador.

This seems a bit much to ask of each user.

Why would it be too much to ask users to be welcoming?

@Maltysen Not really necessary per se, just a general guideline.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I sure hope not. If I were a user completely new to PPCG and I wanted to decide whether to join, checking the chatroom and being greeted with incomprehensable in-jokes and, in the worst case, feeling offended or unwelcome would not be a very good incentive.

7:25 PM

@Doorknob also, base on the meta post you linked earlier and Dennis' answer, maybe change "PPCG-related (on-topic) discussion always overrides idle chatter." to only mean discussion about PPCG (i.e. meta) and not just discussion about a challenge or something.

@AlexA. It's too much to ask of each user. It's a nice guideline, but surely it would be annoying if not mere noise if everyone welcomes each newcomer. (Chat dominated for a minute or two by "Welcome" et al)

@AlexA. fair enough

"chatiquette" nice. It feels like a good first pass, but could use a little tightening up. For example, there should be something like "It's OK to speak up if you feel SNR has gotten off track" so people have some recourse.

@Maltysen That's a good point, yeah. I was thinking it would be some sort of "hierarchy," where directly PPCG-related conversation takes precedence over discussion about specific challenges and so on, but I couldn't find a good way to word that.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I think it means "be welcoming" as in "be friendly and courteous" not as in "need to say hello to everyone"

7:27 PM

^ That

@TimmyD oh

@TimmyD The name was Dennis's idea :) You're right, some kinks still need to be ironed out, so at this stage we're looking for all the feedback and input we can get.

Of course Dennis would figure out a way to golf the naming of our chat rules ...

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Right. In other words, make new users feel welcomed in general, as part of our community.

@wizzwizz4 Moderator.

7:30 PM

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 I am a member of the fun police! :-)

@aditsu What's in Russian?

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 a live stream of the game

The "be welcoming" bit may be more clearly expressed as a negative: "Don't make users feel unwelcome, especially by expecting them to know everything that regulars know."

You could argue that a site with too many rules and policies and defaults is, by that definition, unwelcoming.

I disagree. I think it's easier to figure out how to be welcoming than it is to know how not to be unwelcoming.

2

@Rainbolt Not necessarily. I think "unwelcoming" would be a property of the users, not the site itself.

(Not saying that our users are unwelcoming)

7:37 PM

@AlexA. What is an unwelcoming?

"Unwelcoming" is an adjective, not a noun. It's "not welcoming."

@AlexA. I agree. The problem is not the rules and policies, but treating newcomers as if they should know what they are. This is fairly hard to maintain as the site gets older and the number of experienced users increase.

Yes

I just remember being overwhelmed by the amount of defaults that were assumed when I first posted a challenge. The challenge was well received, and I still felt overwhelmed. And the number of defaults and policies has only grown (a lot) since then.

Hopefully some of our site-specific text will help with that

(Once we get it, assuming it's approved)

7:40 PM

yeah I hope the policy cancer won't infect the chat too (but a few guidelines are good)

"Policy cancer"?

Yea like no profanity. That's a good one.

(I'm joking)

@Rainbolt That is a really good one.

So basically, the Chattiquette enforces me to only participate in a discussion.

@Meanbits How about a be nice policy next?

7:41 PM

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Not at all. It just encourages on-topic discussion.

@wizzwizz4 Who is Meanbits?

But still, I exit this chat now. ;_;

I must admit I'm confused with the "Policy cancer" remark, too.

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Noooooooooooo!

@AlexA. yeah, the almost infinite and ever-growing list of obscure and bizarre rules and laws that users are expected to know before posting a question

@AlexA. Meanbits is... @Geobits will explain.

7:42 PM

^^ or when reading answers

@Rainbolt I feel ya. I lurked for quite a while before posting my first challenge, thought I had it pretty good, and it still felt like I got ripped to shreds. :D

I posted after reading my first challenge lol

like those languages which use ridiculous code pages which always confuse new users, and which use ridiculous input/output formats

@aditsu The main problem we're trying to solve with Chatiquette is that people operate under different assumptions about how 19B should be run. The goal is to unify everybody's expectations and minimize confusion caused by disagreements related to that.

@aditsu Like Alex said, our site-specific text will help with that. Once that's in place, I feel a need to start up a solid community FAQ.

7:44 PM

^ new users don't read this

I actually read some of the SO FAQs when I was new

This site didn't have one... so I didn't read it

@Fatalize This is true. But if we can get a solid FAQ that we can point new users to, rather than the piecemeal that it currently is, we'll be better off.

→ 7 messages moved to Trash

@wizzwizz4 We're trying to have a serious discussion

@TimmyD I highly doubt new users will go read the FAQ after getting 5 downvotes and locked as unclear on their first post

I might suggest that decreasing the signal:noise ratio in a discussion about increasing it is rather ironic...

7:47 PM

Also didn't read the tag wiki for code golf. On SO the wiki described what the tag was about. It didn't include rules about my post.

I have noticed more new users are posting in the sandbox lately, which is great IMO. I think the users who don't lurk at all are largely unsalvageable but I think the sandbox really helps those that do.

(Point more things at the sandbox all the time)

@AlexA. :-o Ok, I'll be serious.

@Fatalize It depends on how that's shown. Fifteen different people pointing out fifteen different Meta links regarding various things wrong with the challenge is a lot different than a single paragraph saying exactly what's wrong and things to read to fix it.

@Fatalize So true and so aggravating. Some users, though, actually go to the effort of reading stuff and taking (constructive) criticisms, and those are definitely the ones we want to keep. Other users don't bother, and I consider them to be less valuable to the site.

I agree with the Starman. It sounds kinda callous, but drive-by users aren't the sort of users that we should want.

7:51 PM

I think that's true of the network as a whole though

Yes. The problem with new users is worse on Christianity.SE, for what it's worth.

Here's the thing about FAQs: you put links to all of the different parts of the FAQ and scatter them around your help page, close reasons, flag reasons, etc. And mention them in comments. Then, when I find just one of those pages, I'll see the link back to the FAQ and click on it. This is exactly what caused me to read the FAQs on SO, and I suspect it will work here too. Just making a FAQ won't do much good at all I suspect.

Yeah. I think it's the scattering of info, and not the amount, that's the issue.

Rename "Closed as Unclear" to "Closed because not mature enough: post it to Sandbox"

less hurtful

"not mature enough" is likely to be a lot more offensive :p

7:54 PM

We do have an FAQ, but it... needs much more work.

"Mature" might not be the best word there, sounds almost harsher to me.

@Doorknob Do you say "EFF AYE CUE" out loud?

Also I don't think we can change close reason text?

@Rainbolt Yes, that's how I read it in my head :P

@FryAmTheEggman We get custom off-topic close reasons but we can't change the others.

many poeple read it as "fack"

7:55 PM

Yeah that's what I thought, thanks.

@Fatalize To be somewhat technical, questions are not actually closed, but rather "put on hold". This change in verbiage happened a few years ago for basically that reason: it's less harsh and communicates the point of closure better. (For most sites anyway.)

strawpoll.me/10449919

^ as usual, neither

@Rainbolt It's kinda both for me: I pronounce it "fack" in my head, but if I say it out loud to another person, I'll be more likely to say "eff aye cue" so that they have zero chance of thinking that I'm swearing. :P

@Doorknob question about the chatiquette: this is isn't actually endorsed by SE, is it? its just you guys making something? if so, it may be good to include it in the site-specific text changes SE is making once its finalized

muddyfish

7:57 PM

There are people who don't pronounce it eff-aye-cue?

@El'endiaStarman Frequently Usked Questions

@muddyfish I don't think so?

@Maltysen Where would you envision it go on the site?

@Maltysen I'm pretty sure it was created by the PPCG mods.

Oh, yes. That ^

7:58 PM

@Maltysen That's correct. Ideally this should be more of an informal thing; we don't want to make them hard and fast rules. But we still need to be able to subjectively enforce them.

It's entirely separate from SE

@Doorknob I see

its just that having them hosted outside of SE makes them seem IMHO too informal, but whatever