The Nineteenth Byte

orlp

02:00

e.g.

prefix = Nonterminal("prefix", Sequence([Optional(Choice([AND, NOT])), suffix]))

is the same as

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

sure

orlp

prefix = ("&" / "!")? suffix

lines 170-220 turns the structure parsed by the grammar into a proper grammar itself

Ashwin Gupta

Ok python dictionaries are f*cking op as hell.

@QPaysTaxes op = overpowered, gaming term

@QPaysTaxes =/ true true

@QPaysTaxes well tell that to Java's HashMap.

python dictionaries > HashMap

@QPaysTaxes for starters, python dictionaries are data-types, so the syntax is better

@QPaysTaxes the dynamic thing is big.

Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes wow ruby is as unreadable as perl

Ashwin Gupta

@QPaysTaxes class, but you gotta refrence it like a obj. So hmInstance.get(), etc

Downgoat

02:05

@QPaysTaxes why the frown? being unreadable isn't bad

Ashwin Gupta

@QPaysTaxes yeah that's what I'm saying. Sorry, my programming terminology is bad.

Downgoat

@AshwinGupta I think Java is one of the few languages that don't have dict literals.

Ashwin Gupta

@Downgoat I didn't know that, I thought that it was a special python thing.

Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes I didn't say it was the only language

Ashwin Gupta

Well whatever, I like the literals

Nathan Merrill

02:06

actually, this brings up a point: dictionary or map ?

Ashwin Gupta

@NathanMerrill what do you mean?

Nathan Merrill

which is the better terminology

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill JavaScript uses map so I think that'll make most people like dictionary :P

Ashwin Gupta

@NathanMerrill map makes more logical sense to me. Put in the key, get the item. Like (on a real US map) if star represents the nations capital, when you find star you find the city name of the capital.

Nathan Merrill

but map often overloads with the function that takes a value and returns another (which is similar to a map data structure, but they are different)

but dictionary (as far as programming goes), is relatively untouched

Downgoat

02:08

@QPaysTaxes why do you say it's awful D:

yeah

they are

that doesn't make them awful

awful >< evil

orlp

@QPaysTaxes that's just what lexers are

github.com/orlp/pyth5/blob/master/pyth_lang/lexer.py

Pyth5 has a very complex lexer

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat I'm tempted to eleven that =/= to !=...

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman you should be happy I did =/= instead of =\=

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman As long as it isn't <> :P

orlp

hrm

I didn't know that

El'endia Starman

02:11

@Downgoat I'd have been even more tempted in that case.

orlp

Python has built-in infinite recursion protection when you implement your own __repr__

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman can you eleven it back to =/=

orlp

G = parse_grammar(r"""
expr = factor ([+-] factor)*
factor = primary ([*/] primary)*
number = [0-9]+
primary = "(" expr ")" / number / "-" primary
""")
print(G)

that prints

msg too long

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Ha, I used <> in Python at first as a hold-over from programming in Blitz 2D/3D, then one of my friends was like "Why are you doing that?!", so I started using the proper !=. :P

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

rofl

Alex A.

02:12

@orlp Interesting, I wonder why that grammar parses to msg too long

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat Oooh, outside of the 2-minute edit window now, huh...?

Downgoat

eeeewwwww python supports <>

orlp

Nonterminal('expr', Sequence([Nonterminal('factor', Sequence([Nonterminal('primary',
Choice([Sequence([String('('), Nonterminal('expr', Sequence([...])), String(')')]),
Nonterminal('number', OneOrMore(CharClass('0123456789'))), Sequence([String('-'),
Nonterminal('primary', Choice([...]))])])), ZeroOrMore(Sequence([CharClass('*/'),
Nonterminal('primary', Choice([Sequence([String('('), Nonterminal('expr', Sequence([...])),
String(')')]), Nonterminal('number', OneOrMore(CharClass('0123456789'))),
Sequence([String('-'), Nonterminal('primary', Choice([...]))])]))]))])),

Downgoat

I have even less respect for python now, I didn't know that was possibe

orlp

the line was too long, the length was fine

Sp3000

02:13

@Downgoat Python 2, no longer in 3

Downgoat

@orlp ಠ_ಠ for no prettyprinting

El'endia Starman

Python 3.5.0 (v3.5.0:374f501f4567, Sep 13 2015, 02:16:59) [MSC v.1900 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> 1 <> 2
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat not in python 3

Downgoat

$ python
Python 2.7.11 (default, Dec  5 2015, 14:44:53)
[GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 7.0.0 (clang-700.1.76)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 2 <> 3

Nathan Merrill

only 2

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

02:14

^

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill Sp ninja'd you to saying that

Nathan Merrill

bah

ninja'd and didn't even see it

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat And he and I ninja'd you on proving it. :P

Nathan Merrill

like a true ninja

Sp3000

Nathan's comment's a bit clearer, I should have said "taken out in 3"

Downgoat

02:15

@El'endiaStarman such ninja

I googled ninja goat and found this awesome picture:

Nathan Merrill

anyways, can we please just convince everybody to move to python 3?

I mean, I know it'd change pretty much every linux distro

but we can deal with that, right?

orlp

@NathanMerrill ubuntu is python3 now

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill I will but I don't want to type python3, it's too long

orlp

@Downgoat you should try c++

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat just rename it to p3

orlp

02:17

g++ -O2 -m64 -march=native -fwrapv -std=c++11

Sp3000

@Downgoat ಠ_ಠ Your comment is so deserving of this look you forced me to pull it out against my will

orlp

that's just a starting default lol

Nathan Merrill

@orlp as of when? Last I tried an ubuntu box, it was still 2

Downgoat

@Sp3000 ಠ_ಠ

@orlp alias cpp=python3

orlp

@NathanMerrill 16.04 upcoming release

Downgoat

02:18

like that?

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I know right?! Cloud9 still has Python 2 as the default...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

sits in corner liking python2 better

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman is Pytek going to have a package manager?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

fends off angry code-golfers and python3 propenents

except some golfing

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat Definite yes.

Downgoat

02:20

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ oh yes, golfing very important. I take back my previous statement

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

and it is in it's annoyaance level.

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman what are you going to call it ppm (Pytek Package Manager)?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat ^_^

Sp3000

I'd say Python 3 is better for annoyance level, but yes Python 2 is usually better for golfing

3's getting gradually golfier though

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Sp3000 Yeah, python3 is more annoying.

Downgoat

02:21

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ??? do you like Python 2 or not????

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat Dunno. Not that, since I think ppm already means something else more common.

Nathan Merrill

is there are reason that languages need a built in package manger?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat I thought that was sarcasm.

Downgoat

Should I call Cheddar's package manager CPM?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no.

cheesjuic

El'endia Starman

02:22

@NathanMerrill Not technically, but if you want lots of people using it, absolutely.

Nathan Merrill

don't get me wrong, package managers are super useful, but is there any reason they need to be integrated into the language

Downgoat

should I call it cheesery?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

YES

And github hit the "what commit?" mode.............

quartata

@NathanMerrill So you like downloading libraries from github and having to bundle them with your code?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Github gj.. ಠ_ಠ

Nathan Merrill

02:22

@El'endiaStarman What about pip ?\

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

> but if you want lots of people using it, absolutely.

Sp3000

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I mean less annoying :/

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I'd like to have a package manager integrated into the ecosystem, but it won't be a feature of the language.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

nope, no take backs

Nathan Merrill

@quartata no, I'm saying that if the language gets big enough, somebody will make a package manager.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

02:23

AII I CAN"T TAKE THIS 15 MIN LATER GITHUB HAS NO CHANGE

brb resorting to .... safari....

Sp3000

(That wasn't a takeback though...)

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman Be more specific. If I install Pytek, will it automatically include a package manager?

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill Yes.

Not the very first versions though.

Downgoat

strawpoll.me/10069687

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no multiple votes?

Nathan Merrill

02:25

hm. I'm of the opinion that other people can make a package manager better than I can

Sp3000

@Downgoat ☑ Worry about other problems first

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I'm a little more......ambitious.

Downgoat

@Sp3000 I'm not making a complete manager. Just something to provide a basis for Cheddars core libraries / confi stuff

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman I don't know if its about ambition, to be honest. I'm not saying you aren't ambitious, but it feels like 2 separate projects. I mean, if you had the time and drive, then go ahead and make it, but don't attach it to the language.

let it stand on its own merits, and make it a separate install

El'endia Starman

Separate installs are somewhat annoying though, and you get less consistency if they're separate.

Nathan Merrill

02:30

how do you mean consistency?

Helka Homba

@Downgoat Tillamook

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill If the same person or same team makes two products, then they should (theoretically) be held to the same standards, and thus be similar in quality, cross-platform ability, etc.

quartata

Also we want programs to be able to hook into the package manager and get dependencies. I hate how weird interfacing with CPAN is in Perl

El'endia Starman

Yes, one of the features of TeXMaker (LaTeX processor, basically) that I really like is that it will ask me if I want to install any missing LaTeX packages, and will download and install them automatically if so.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

already did. :/

Github hates me now. The feeling is mutual.

Nathan Merrill

02:40

You are given a list of size N+M, where N is the number of elements, and M is the number of empty spots. You need to sort the list, but you have to do it by moving an element to an empty spot

is there a name for the above?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@QPaysTaxes Me: commits Github: okay! Me: checks Github: What commit? Me: >.<

well bai!

taking a break

Nathan Merrill

er, I should specify that the empty spots can be anywhere in the list (in the beginning, or in the sorted output)

its really not. If my list is [2,_,4,3,_], it doesn't make sense to store the two empty spots somewhere else

Geobits

You can just use a single empty slot the same way you'd use tmp in any swap-based sort.

Nathan Merrill

true, but the challenge is to minimize the number of moves

so simply using a single slot as a swap is inefficient

Geobits

Sure, that makes it different, but I don't know of a specific name for this.

Nathan Merrill

02:46

ok.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Hello, I come to inquire: does anybody of a decent amount of knowledge in the field of French?

better? ><

Nathan Merrill

I'm going to call it slot sort

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

idc

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Quelle est votre question?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata My question: In this, Nathan a répondu, « Mais que ? Il pleut. » he's supposed to say "but what", but my teacher said que was incorrect in this case, and says to instead use "what". What is the proper "what" to use in this case?

I thought you didn't know french

Nathan Merrill

02:52

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I said no such thing

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@NathanMerrill o_o okai. you go on to commit a crime

quartata

Quelle is an interrogative adjective. I think quoi is right

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata merci! :D

quartata

mais que is like but that

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Oh, I see.

quartata

02:53

You could ask in French SE chat though.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Alright, resume whatever you were doing, sorry >_<

quartata

I'm just staring at linker manpages with my eyes glazed over

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

sugar glazing?

quartata

Molasses, I think.

Geobits

"my eyes glazed over"... so Mego is there with you?

quartata

02:56

Better do a taste test

@Geobits what?

On an unrelated note, has anyone here ever tried blackstrap molasses? It's easily the most disgusting thing I've ever tried

Maybe it is an acquired taste.

Geobits

@quartata urbandictionary.com/…

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