The Nineteenth Byte

zyabin101

12:00

@MartinBüttner How much it took to compute?

Martin Büttner

a few seconds

there's only about 65k states

rendering takes longest I think

Here's the code:

Graph[With[{state = Partition[IntegerDigits[#, 2, 16], 4]},
    UndirectedEdge[#,
     FromDigits[
      Flatten@CellularAutomaton[{224, {2, {{2, 2, 2}, {2, 1, 2}, {2, 2, 2}}}, {1, 1}}, state, {{{1}}}], 2]]
    ] & /@ Range[0, 2^16 - 1], ImageSize -> 2000]

(where you'd use DirectedEdge if you actually wanted to work with the graph)

zyabin101

This one POV-Ray scene was much easier.

gist.github.com/schas002/f17a27b8e8cf81238ae17a8f60f70df7

flawr

12:34

2

Sp3000

12:48

@El'endiaStarman Variations of Life feature request: load grid by copying and pasting a grid into somewhere? (e.g. if I generate a grid with a program and want to copy it over)

Oh nvm, I guess that's what the permalink's for

Mars Ultor

13:26

@Sp3000 You could try to convince him to shorten it though, it's usually far too long to fit in one chat message

zyabin101

@MarsUltor You're back!

Did you read the UGL room?

Nathan Merrill

is there anybody who knows Haskell in the room?

zyabin101

@NathanMerrill Erm, nope. No one... No.

trichoplax

@zyabin101 Do you have a keyboard shortcut for that exact phrase?

zyabin101

@trichoplax Nope.

trichoplax

13:40

chat.stackexchange.com/…

:P

Sp3000

Not sure I can speak on behalf of the room, but I think it'd be more correct to say that the people best equipped at answering Haskell questions aren't currently in the room, although the rest of us can most certainly try

Nathan Merrill

I'm still not sure how gradual typing should work with function overloading.

maybe I simply remove function overloading

for example, in many languages with gradual typing, you could type:

def func(a, b)
    return a + b

and it'll only accept types where a and b can be added

alternatively, you can do stuff like

def func(a, b: NonZero)
    return a/b

which ensures that b isn't ever zero

that said, if I have two functions that accept similar types, is that a problem?

def func(a: Int, b: IntGreaterThan3)
    #magic math

def func(a: Int, b: Int)
     #other math

I see 3 ways to resolve the overload:

1. Resolve it based on the type of the variable at compile time. Benefits: fast

2. Resolve it based on the type of the variable at run time. Benefits: flexible

3. Disallow it

Sp3000

They're similar but still different types, right? Or can they be used interchangeably?

As in, can something be both an Int and an IntGreaterThan3?

Nathan Merrill

Yes. IntGreaterThan3 is actually more like Int<GreaterThan<3>>

I could even do something like Int<GreaterThan<3>, LessThan<7>>

all of the parameters in the type are restrictions on the type

Mars Ultor

@NathanMerrill Not a good idea IMO

I like C#-style contracts more

Nathan Merrill

13:52

@MarsUltor that's gradual typing.

Mars Ultor

Not entirely sure writing IntGreaterThan3 is a good idea

Nathan Merrill

A really good example is for the division example

Mars Ultor

I think it's better to have assert(b > 3)

Sp3000

I feel like if it's Haskell you could just let it pattern match to the first one that works at runtime, but I don't know if that's what Haskell really does

Nathan Merrill

def divide(a: Int, b: Int<NonZero>)
    return a/b

@MarsUltor assertions are at runtime. The benefit of gradual typing is that its at compiletime

@Sp3000 regardless of what Haskell does, what would you do?

or, expect?

Mars Ultor

13:58

@NathanMerrill How do you assert b > 3 at compile time?

Nathan Merrill

whoever calls it have to ensure that its greater than 3

so, for example, if its user input

if they do a if (a > 3)

then that will work

or, if they were passed a number that was greater than 0, and add the constant 3 to it, that'll work too

or, even better, if they a number that was greater than 0, and a number that was greater than 3

Sp3000

If it were my own language, I'd probably disallow it just for the sake of code clarity? Maybe

But if it helps:

46

Q: Overloaded method selection based on the parameter's real type

I'm experimenting with this code: interface Callee { public void foo(Object o); public void foo(String s); public void foo(Integer i); } class CalleeImpl implements Callee public void foo(Object o) { logger.debug("foo(Object o)"); } public void foo(String s) { ...

There's Java, apparently

Nathan Merrill

yeah, Java does option 1

@Sp3000 would you disallow overloading with incompatible assertions?

def (Int<GreaterThan<3>>)
    #Stuff
def(Int<LessThan<3>>)
    #Stuff

(in the above example, calling it with just an Int would be disallowed if static method dispatch is chosen)

Sp3000

Hmm that'd probably require a way to check whether they were incompatible, and I'm not sure I can think of an easy way of doing that

Nathan Merrill

yeah

Sp3000

14:11

e.g. if you had Int<PerfectNumber> and Int<OddNumber>

Nathan Merrill

actually, there's an easy way to do this

static method dispatch

and if multiple parameters match a call, then you can't call it?

no, that doesn't make sense

if multiple methods match, you have to explicitly cast it

quartata

By the way, C can also do this with _Generic in C11:

Nathan Merrill

I think that makes sense. It means that if I have an integer, and I add 3 to it, I'm not surprised when a different method is called

@quartata you can put values in a type?

aka, String<Length<5>>?

quartata

void foo(void* point) {
_Generic(long: something, double: something else, *point)
}

no I mean call something else based on real type

Nathan Merrill

so does _Generic store nulls in every other value?

er, nulls don't exist

but it uses up the memory for all of the types, I'm assuming

quartata

14:20

The somethings are code snippets. I think it does nothing for a missing type

Not much of a C expert though.

zyabin101

How can I search eye macarenas like >_>?

Chat's search does not support the raw >_>.

flawr

Yes the search is quite strange.

E.g. it would not find my previous message if I would look for "strang"

Nathan Merrill

14:41

I'm writing a paper, and I keep on using markup to do text emphasis

-.-

flawr

.

._.

=)

@NathanMerrill Is there no markdown -> latex converter?

Nathan Merrill

not using latex

zyabin101

Nathan Merrill

its not that kind of paper

zyabin101

I do POV-Ray, a third time!

https://gist.github.com/schas002/4718c764985953675f6258b24dc84b91

Nathan Merrill

14:44

just using google docs

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Sherlock9

15:22

@El'endiaStarman Hey El, I've got some blasphemy for you: eev.ee/blog/2016/01/04/…

Eh, that was poorly worded. Sorry, I just thought you might this article interesting, since you like Paul Graham, and this guy... well, I was wondering what your reaction to an opposing viewpoint might be

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code-golf math sequence geometry symmetry

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

16:39

o_o chat is particularly dead today

More alive than cooking SE's chat, I guess.

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Chat always has low-activity on sundays

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat Really? That's interesting.

Fatalize

this only means @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ has no life

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Fatalize oi! o_o

Downgoat

@Fatalize but I'm also in chat

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

16:40

whoa

zyabin101

\(o_O)/

Fatalize

You can see people coming more on Friday, when they feel it's the end of the week and they let their work slide

zyabin101

But still: YWOT is back. Go wild.

2

Fatalize

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ i spent the whole day rewriting Barchylog's transpiler in Prolog, so you might say I don't have a life either :p

zyabin101

Also, it's very amazing how someone wrote a FIGlet of "Code Golf", exactly, symbol after symbol.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

16:42

@Fatalize o_o Prolog. I didn't even think you could write a programming lang in prolog.

Fatalize

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ It's actually fairly "intuitive" to parse things in prolog

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Huh. TIL.

Fatalize

I'm not even good at prolog but it was surprisingly not that difficult (granted, I'm not done but I feel like the hard parts are done)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

wow, nice.

Downgoat

@Fatalize ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

16:46

Hi @El'endiaStarman! Welcome to the room of apparent no-lifes. Care to join us? :P

Downgoat

\o/ \o/ \o/ carrots work in cheddar!!!!!!!!!!!

Fatalize

@Downgoat That's not even close to a dubious sentence ಠ_ಠ

Downgoat

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fatalize

Cheddar is such a cheesy name

(don't tell me no one has done that one before?)

Downgoat

that pun has been made waaay to many times

zyabin101

16:48

@Downgoat Show them to me.

Fatalize

damn

knew it

Downgoat

Mar 28 at 2:17, by mınxomaτ

The name is a bit cheesy.

Apr 11 at 22:20, by flawr

It also depends how cheesy the name of the language is.

Apr 8 at 1:15, by Quill

Well that's a cheesy joke

Fatalize

carrots work in Cheddar but what about Avocados?

Downgoat

avocad mak juic

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

wait what does that even mean

Downgoat

16:50

put avodad an get juic

poi830

@Downgoat Fun fact: cheddar is a cheesy name

Downgoat

sigh

that makes 5 cheesy jokes

poi830

cheese

zyabin101

@Downgoat show us the carrots in cheddar

Downgoat

ok

it needs to finsh bildig ferst

zyabin101

16:55

@_@

Downgoat

babel is slow but amazing...

ah shit, it still says undefined...

zyabin101

/o\

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I'm proud of myself.

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ was that copy pasted or laboriously typed?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

the latter, for most of it.

cuss words. I did a capital O by accident

zyabin101

17:03

Also, we made an ASCII avocad and juicd it and drank the avocad juic.

Downgoat

but now no moar avodad juic ;_;

zyabin101

@Downgoat We have already juicd this avocad. We need another avocad.

Downgoat

@zyabin101 ok

will maek anudr avocad

quartata

17:30

@Downgoat cheddar is cheesy hue hue original joke pls upvote

9

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Damson

The damson (/ˈdæmzən/) or damson plum (Prunus domestica subsp. insititia, or sometimes Prunus insititia), also archaically called the "damascene" is an edible drupaceous fruit, a subspecies of the plum tree. Varieties of insititia are found across Europe, but the name "damson" is derived from and most commonly applied to forms which are native to Ireland and Great Britain. Damsons are relatively small plum-like fruit with a distinctive, somewhat astringent taste, and are widely used for culinary purposes, particularly in fruit preserves or jam. In South and Southeast Asia, the term "damson plum...

Downgoat

@quartata oka

quartata

okra

Downgoat

okray

Ashwin Gupta

17:53

@Maltysen yeah I probably should learn how to do that.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

18:11

o-o

flawr

@Downgoat oh cray!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Anyone here familiar with HTML5 canvas?

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yes

flawr

Only a little bit.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat How does radial gradient work? I need to have a circular linear gradient that changes with a player's movement. (It's just a circle with a white highlight.)

wait nvm I'm an idiot

2

Ashwin Gupta

18:21

Lol Conor are you doing something like this: github.com/niwhsa9/Space-War ?

like galaga sorta

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Oh, no :P I'm doing an RPG similar to Geo Land, if you know what that is.

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ok

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I'm even more of an idiot, it's not even radial >_<

zyabin101

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I don't know what that is.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^ that

zyabin101

18:28

Wiki page?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Geo Land RPG Walkthrough #1

►

doesn't have one, but this might work

flawr

Ohmygodlinkpleasewewannaplayrightnowlikeimmediatelycommonwhatareyouwaitingfor???‌??

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

mofunzone.com/games/geo_land_the_lost_time.html

flawr

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ No, Your game!

Ashwin Gupta

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ looks cool

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

18:30

@flawr XD there's not much too it at all. I've just got the player made.

@AshwinGupta I really suggest it, it's a great example of RPG games.

Ashwin Gupta

Well I'll give it a try

flawr

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Get to work then. You have 2 hours.

Ashwin Gupta

I don't really play too many RPG games

I do have fallout which is sorta rpg. Not really though

flawr

I do like games with RPGs.

Ashwin Gupta

lol

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

18:31

flawr

@AshwinGupta Do you like fallout?

Ashwin Gupta

@flawr yeah its quite fun actually

@flawr yes, but...

wait first, do you have an xbox or just using pc?

flawr

Oh darn, that should have been a new message.

I use pc.

Ashwin Gupta

Oh ok nvm

Yes then you will probably like fallout

But I'd wait for it to be on sale

don't pay 60 pay like 30-40

El'endia Starman

@Sherlock9 I actually really appreciated the chance to read opposing and supporting views in that post and its comments.

Ashwin Gupta

18:34

It's too bad you don't have an xbox though, I'd recommend this. (If you like epic shooting and insane open worlds:) store.xbox.com/en-US/Xbox-One/Games/Sunset-Overdrive/…

It's free right now also so yeah.

@flawr also, IDK if it's your thing, but rainbow six siege is reallly really fun. A great shooter. Sort of the oppisite of open world though. IMHO i'd say better then fallout because you can play w/ friends and stuff.

flawr

If I had firends.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:(

you have us

Ashwin Gupta

^

flawr

I just watched a video but I do not think that this is my type of game (the rainbow stuff)

Ashwin Gupta

wow.

you typoed that bad

flawr

18:39

^ i like that word

Ashwin Gupta

@flawr okay, I figured maybe not cuz not open world.

typoed?

flawr

I doesn't have to be an open world, but this feels too real=)

Ashwin Gupta

Oh okay got ya.

I wish sunset overdrive had a PC port though cuz you would really like that I bet.

flawr

You know, I like games more like halo/crysis/half life e.t.c.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

halo has no decent snipers >:|

Ashwin Gupta

18:42

What you mean Conor? Halo's snipers are fine

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

IMO, they are terrible

El'endia Starman

Woo Halo!

Ashwin Gupta

flawr I'd assume u've tried star wars battlefront, that's sorta like that. Sci-Fi theme, shooting.

El'endia Starman

Woo SW: Battlefront!

Ashwin Gupta

Plus you know, you can be DARTH VADER!

flawr

18:43

Nope, these are about all games I played so far=)

Ashwin Gupta

Oh okay

Well if you get a chance, you ought to give BF a spin.

flawr

Oh yeah I tried BF once, but it felt way to restricted. You could only exactly do what you were supposed to do.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

woo tf2

Ashwin Gupta

true.

Oh yeah TF2 is fun and free

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr Yeah, brain**** is hard to program in :P

Ashwin Gupta

18:44

=/ brainf*ck...

flawr

Chrome and chrome specforce were games I really liked!

Kinda old.

Ashwin Gupta

I tried that once, I gave up after I couldn't figure out how to do multiplication.

Ok I have an idea that I need some help implementing. I'm writing a 2D galaga type game. I want the background (which is currently solid black) to have light beams passing by in the background sorta like the way hyper-drive looks in star wars. How should I do this? I'm thinking an array of coordinates that I use as the front of each line. Then at each interval I update the x++

poi830

i feel like bf wouldnt feel restricted

Ashwin Gupta

but problem is I don't know how to get it started exactly. XD

poi830

seeing that its turing complete

@AshwinGupta you could use a loop to do multiplication

Ashwin Gupta

18:48

@poi830 honestly I'm not a big BF fan mostly becasuse the gunplay isn't too nice.

@poi830 wait I don't get it, what do you mean?

poi830

@AshwinGupta wrong BF

Ashwin Gupta

what BF are you talking about...

Oh.

flawr

Battlefield vs Brainfuck

Ashwin Gupta

nvm

flawr

originally we were talking about the first

El'endia Starman

18:49

Then Conor derailed it into the second. :P

Ashwin Gupta

@flawr Battlefront* vs Brainfuck

Lol

flawr

*Battlefield

El'endia Starman

@Sherlock9 Just read through all the comments there and here.

Ashwin Gupta

well not enitrely his fault actualy. I brought up RPGs

Because I asked him about his game

So it's actually sorta my fault

woops.

El'endia Starman

If we're talking about the Star Wars game, it's Battlefront. Battlefield is a different game/series.

Ashwin Gupta

18:51

Yeah we are talking about SW:BF.

flawr

Nope we aren't.

At least I do not.

Ashwin Gupta

Wait what xD?

El'endia Starman

8 mins ago, by Ashwin Gupta

flawr I'd assume u've tried star wars battlefront, that's sorta like that. Sci-Fi theme, shooting.

7 mins ago, by flawr

Oh yeah I tried BF once, but it felt way to restricted. You could only exactly do what you were supposed to do.

flawr

Yeah and later we wer talking about BF -> Battlefield.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

When it's usually BF ==> BrainF

flawr

18:53

Brain Fart?

Boyfriend?

El'endia Starman

@flawr Battlefield wasn't mentioned until your comment trying to clarify what BF we were talking about.

flawr

Best friend?

@El'endiaStarman =P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@zyabin101 there's so many religious things in the WoT

poi830

oh i was talking about battlefield the melee stage /s

El'endia Starman

Oh my gosh, not another BF... :P

flawr

18:55

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ How could that possibly have happened?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr That was not me, if you're insinuating.

flawr

Another favourite word=)

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ World of Things?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman yourworldoftext.com/~zyabin101

WoText

Follow the avocad juic

flawr

You can also go to (-1,-5)

El'endia Starman

19:00

Anyway, regarding income inequality, @Sherlock9, I remember reading a blog post several years ago that dealt with the question of "Why would God allow inequality?", and their answer was basically "Because without inequality you can't have generosity.". Seriously, I'm really looking forward to having a good salary because then I can be more generous. If you squash any hope of getting rich, you likely also squash generosity.

Doorknob

@CatsAreFluffy "but an answer's OK, seeing as you have less than 50 reputation" No it's not. That's not an excuse for posting a non-answer as an answer.

Fatalize

Why would god even care about inequality if he is as omnipotent as some people claim he is

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^

El'endia Starman

@Fatalize I'm normally interested in discussing such issues, but with that tone, it seems to me like you've pretty much already made up your mind, so I see no point in trying to have a discussion.

poi830

but i dont really want to get into a discussion over religion actually

El'endia Starman

19:09

That the question involved God is not what I was looking to point out. It's the idea that you can't have generosity without inequality.

That I'm sure we can have a good and interesting discussion about.

Bill Gates is fantastically wealthy and he has a passion for eradicating poverty, so his contributions to reducing poverty and eliminating malaria are making a huge impact, especially in Africa.

poi830

i don't really disagree with that, but i think that removing inequality is still worth losing generosity

and i think that generosity in smaller forms would still occur

even if people aren't donating to charity

people wouldn't stop being generous to each other just because they weren't more rich than each other

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

But how much would the generosity mean?

Fatalize

If most charities weren't shady, people would probably donate more

poi830

@Fatalize thats not really relevant

El'endia Starman

@poi830 True, but think of how significant and meaningful it is when a middle-class person gives a homeless guy on the street a hundred bucks. That's like hitting the jackpot for that guy.

The super rich corporations and families are keeping all the money to themselves, which is really the problem.

Downgoat

19:15

> SyntaxError: Invalid regular expression: /^.{1221}\->/: Stack overflow

wat.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

wat

El'endia Starman

To look at it another way, is it worth it to reduce or eliminate one good thing (generosity) in favor of reducing or eliminating one bad thing (inequality)?

poi830

yeah i think we just disagree on whether generosity is good enough to warrant having inequality

Downgoat

that error is very difficult to look up too because it shows results from stack overflow and not stack overflows themselves

3

Geobits

If inequality were truly eliminated, there would be no need for generosity (at least in this manner). Obviously I don't see this ever happening.

poi830

19:17

i think the homeless person in your example would be happier overall if he weren't homeless than if he got money, even if the money would make him immediately happier

Geobits

^

flawr

^

Fatalize

^

poi830

^

Downgoat

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:18

Analogies do break down.

El'endia Starman

...are you guys agreeing or just continuing the caret chain? :P

flawr

both=)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

poi830

^

Downgoat

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:18

^

zyabin101

RIG@IFTD

note to self: never time travel 5 billion yrs into the future. imgur.com/gallery/IQrL8z5

El'endia Starman

@poi830, out of curiosity, have you ever read The Giver?

flawr

@zyabin101 you destroyed it!

poi830

@El'endiaStarman yeah

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman I liked that book :D

zyabin101

19:20

@flawr Nope.

I made it an owner area.

El'endia Starman

@poi830 What do you think of it? Like, what was the message?

zyabin101

For historical significance, and to prevent vandalism.

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Me too.

flawr

@zyabin101 The caret chain!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

zyabin101

19:21

@flawr I didn't participate, anyway.

^

flawr

@zyabin101 I made an index in your text world

zyabin101

@flawr Give me a screenshot. I'm on mobile so I can't view it myself.

flawr

Better not pollute t19b with this^^

zyabin101

v_v

flawr

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:25

Aw, I was almost done ._.

poi830

somebody put a bunch of bible quotes lol

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

yeah o-o who did that?

not el', because he hasn't been on (I don't think)

El'endia Starman

No, not me. I haven't checked out a World of Text for several days now.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:43

hm

flawr

there is an illusionati triangle now=)

El'endia Starman

Every time I see TED's introduction to one of their videos, it strikes me just how good the intro is. They put the central goal of TED into visual form.

It's really one of the best intros/visual metaphors I've ever seen.

Downgoat

should the thing evaluating a call stack be a class or a function?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

19:59

Flass

Downgoat

wat

floss?

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