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04:00
@QPaysTaxes How is it not fun for Ruby?
@QPaysTaxes Turn autocomplete off?
@QPaysTaxes When in another room and you see the most recent post in this room, for example, the strikethrough doesn't render. So I just saw "You people suck rock."
@QPaysTaxes I don't mind that, happens all the time in non-laggy editors
Well, Cheddar isn't Ruby
I made a workspace, it says "creating container", whatever that means...
The only Ruby language created by people here is GolfScript (IDK if that's even created by someone here)
I've been using Vim lately so I'm used to confusion and overuse of my fingers.
04:02
@QPaysTaxes Yeah, I know
@AlexA. hahaha
@MarsUltor Nope, not someone here
@Downgoat Pretty sure that means it's creating a Docker container
Is C9, just a glorified online text editor?
basically, a fully customizable vm
@Downgoat No
04:03
oh
It also builds, compiles etc
@Downgoat You're on Mac, right? If you use iTerm2, the terminal has mouse support. It's nice when you want to get somewhere in Vim and can't remember how.
@Downgoat you have a fully functional shell (Ubuntu + bash)
@AlexA. use neovim, it was a visual mode where you can clikc and the cursor goes there
@QPaysTaxes ?
04:04
@MarsUltor I also have an (even more) fully functional shell on my computer...
@Downgoat Yeah
@Downgoat But c9 is collaborative and live
@Downgoat s/even more/equally/
but no one else is working on Cheddar besides me
@MarsUltor can I run rm -rf / on that shell ;)
@QPaysTaxes eeew, setup...
@Downgoat I also use NeoVim, but Visual mode doesn't guarantee mouse recognition. NeoVim by default has mouse=a (full mouse support) but whether its usable is reliant on whether the terminal emulator has mouse support.
Do you just use Terminal.app?
yeah
what else?
@Downgoat Hardly any setup
04:06
@QPaysTaxes I can always just git clone the repo
@Downgoat Probably. It's in a docker container though, which means you will only destroy your own c9 workspace
@MarsUltor :|
@Downgoat I've been using iTerm2 because it has mouse support. Looks like mouse support is native to Terminal.app in El Capitan though.
@Downgoat You don't need any storage either
@QPaysTaxes Controlled by the Borg?
@Downgoat Also, if your terminal has mouse support and Vim has mouse=a, you don't need to be in visual mode to click anywhere.
04:08
@QPaysTaxes I always have my phone with me if I'm not at my computer which has Coda so I can setup a FTP into my VPN, so I don't even need to do anything online
@AlexA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wait. Cheddar uses node, right?
yesterday, by Downgoat
@Dennis ah okay, I don't really know anything about anything and I guess that includes compression algorithms.
@MarsUltor yes
@MarsUltor No, cheddar uses cheese
well... it's ES6 not node...
but it works in node
@Downgoat Um
why require?
04:09
oh no
@MarsUltor ?
the tree question
spooky
well
@Downgoat is import ES7 only?
there it is
04:09
@MarsUltor I'm not using require?
good luck guys
(the question looks a lot more complicated than it actually is, the hint is in the title)
@Downgoat Babel does
Oh wait
that's the transpiled version
I can configure it to not use require
04:10
has no idea how require even works without node
@MarsUltor I'm using import, are you looking at the .js files?
@Downgoat Yeah, babel uses require. I thought that was node-only.
"elephant in the room" is the weirdest metaphorical idiom...
@JesterTran Hello!
04:15
what is opening balance for account summary?
3
Q: Evaluate a minimax tree

orlpAlice and Bob are playing a little game. First, they draw a tree from a root node (indicated by a thick dot), with no internal nodes, with numbers at the leaves. Any node may have any number of children. We start at the root, and first to play is Alice (A). She must select one of the current n...

@JesterTran What do you mean?
@AlexA. this is for my credit card statement
it has opening balance there
@JesterTran It means how much you owe the credit card company at the beginning of the statement period.
before any of your current month spending.
After applying your current month spending, you get to the "closing balance".
@ChrisJester-Young what's the purpose?
to represent my financial position?
04:17
@JesterTran So you know how much you originally owe, how much you spent in the current month, and thus how much you currently owe.
@Downgoat Why's that?
It allows you to balance your numbers.
@Downgoat requested access to the c9
@El'endiaStarman it's so arbitrary... why not goat outside the farm?
@MarsUltor link?
@Downgoat It's supposed to be something so obvious that everyone in the room can't avoid seeing it, but something nobody talks about.
04:18
@Downgoat I don't really think it's arbitrary. An elephant in the room would be someth- ninja'd ;_;
@ChrisJester-Young why can't they calculate it with the actual credits given? why do they have to subtract this small proportion (opening balance) at the beinning of each statement period?
@ChrisJester-Young oh
but still why elephant? Why not hippo in the room?
@Downgoat I dunno, it's just an idiom.
@Downgoat link to the c9
@MarsUltor ok, how to I accept your request for access?
nvm figured it out
04:20
@JesterTran The opening balance is how much you owed the credit card company at the beginning of the month/statement period. It's there to remind you that you actually have extra owing, above and beyond what you spend in the current month.
@ChrisJester-Young what is closing balance? Is it what I get at the end of the statement period?
D: C9 doesn't have syntax highlighting?
@JesterTran That's how much you owe at the end of the statement period, yes.
@Downgoat No
@Downgoat Wait, it just doesn't recognize .es6
What? Yes, C9 has syntax highlighting, at least for Python 2/3.
04:21
@MarsUltor I wonder if it recognise .jsx. :-P
@ChrisJester-Young wait wait. Opening balance is a "starting fee", say. Closing balance includes the opening balance...
so why am I oweing the company two folds?
Granted, JSX !== ES6, but, Babel is required to handle JSX and it's usually set up to handle ES6 too.
@JesterTran Okay, let's try this. At the beginning of February, you owed your credit card company $100, say. You spend $200 in February. At the end of February, you owe your credit card company a total of $300.
@JesterTran The $100 is the opening balance. The $300 is the closing balance.
@ChrisJester-Young riiight, thanks
100% understood
Cool beans.
how do I commit to github in C9?
04:25
come on you slowpokes
still no answer? :P
you probably don't want my answer :p
how do I merge from github in C9?
@Downgoat Use the terminal
I don't see a terminal
Wait
Done
04:29
done what?
@Downgoat There should be a terminal now
If not, then refresh
hmm, when you have some multi-line plain text and you want to show it in html, what would you choose between "white-space: pre-wrap" and using <p>'s and <br>'s ? it seems that I have different things done in different ways :p
ok merged
@aditsu I had no idea white-space: pre-wrap was a thing. I just used <p>s and <br>s.
@El'endiaStarman D: <br>s <br>eak your code
04:35
I guess the <p>s are more customizable (for spacing)
ah, pre-wrap also preserves sequences of whitespace (pre-line collapses them)
05:05
in Pytek, 1 min ago, by El'endia Starman
Quick question: does it make sense to have recursively-defined infix operators? o.O
@El'endiaStarman What do you mean by that?
@ChrisJester-Young Edited.
My question still stands.
Okay, in Pytek, I'm planning on allowing user-defined infix operators.
05:08
@El'endiaStarman recursively?
I plan to structure the definition basically the same way as a function, which means that there is potential for the infix operator being defined to be included in its own definition.
If you have an overload or something for the lowest recursion, then yes
Maybe
As in something like Fibonacci
@El'endiaStarman Have you looked at how operator overloading in other languages work? You might take that as inspiration.
I'm most familiar with C++ and Ruby's operator overloading, but any language that supports it works.
hmm
Python has operator overloading after a fashion, but you define it in user-defined classes.
@El'endiaStarman Same as C#
@ChrisJester-Young But there is rarely recursion in those
05:11
Thing is, though, I want to allow operators that take two left arguments and three right arguments, for example.
@MarsUltor Right. Which is why I'm curious to hear about the usecases @El'endiaStarman has in mind.
@MarsUltor (In C++, postincrement and postdecrement is idiomatically defined in terms of preincrement and predecrement, respectively. But I don't know if I call that "recursive".)
@El'endiaStarman As long as you think they will be used relatively often, then it shouldn't be a problem
Hmm, here's a contrived example:
op:binom<1,1>(n,r){
    \if(n==r or r==0){1}{n binom (r-1) + (n-1) binom (r-1)}
}

\print(5 binom 3) # => 10
Hmm
Not sure if you could extract the if somehow since pretty much all recursive infix operators will have an if
If not, you may want to optimize that
Well, you could use pattern matching, in the style of Haskell or Erlang. :-P
05:21
But it's readable
I seriously do like how readable it is.
Except for the really long line. You may want to write a code convention spec sometime
Really long line? HA! It's really quite short!
op:binom<1,1>(n,0) 1
op:binom<1,1>(n,n) 1
op:binom<1,1>(n,r) n binom (r-1) + (n-1) binom (r-1)
05:25
I think that's much more typing than should be done. Look at how much repetition there is!
in Pytek, Feb 9 at 18:15, by El'endia Starman
Pytek is intended to be an actual, mainstream language that aims to reduce the amount of programmer work, largely by identifying and leveraging common patterns, such as nested loops. There are two overarching goals: 1) make the computer do as much of the programming work as possible, and 2) succinctness is power - there are great benefits to saying much with few words.
Hmm
You could make it more readable with a lambda syntax?
You think it's unreadable now?
No, just not the most readable
How could it be more readable? I mean that as a query, not a challenge.
op:binom<1,1>(n,r){
    \if(n==r or r==0)
        {1}
        {n binom (r-1) + (n-1) binom (r-1)}
}

\print(5 binom 3) # => 10
Something like that
05:28
Yeah, that'd do the same thing.
I know
And there's no difference in syntax.
Just you need some official guide on how to make long lines shorter
I'll worry about that much later.
Then that should be as readable as it can be
 
2 hours later…
07:26
Hello
darkness, my old friend,
what is the diff. b/w current voting that is going on and elections.. ?
@Optimizer Primary will reduce the number of "to-be-mods" to 10(they are 11 actually...), elections will allow us to chose our 4 mods
08:09
Hum, I want to do some codegolfing, but can't find a challenge that motivate me...
Nevermind, found one
09:02
I found out Turnkey Linux, a library of over 100 pre-configured debian distros. However, they only support 64 bits.
"Sorry 32 bits, for security, you have to tag along!"
09:15
@zyabin101 most computer nowadays are 64 bits, so it shouldn't be a problem ^^
@Katenkyo I have 32 bits. >_<
So it is a problem for me.
well... time to upgrade I guess \o/
As everything, support for 32bit will be less and less common, as it's meant to disappear from common computer
Hum, technically, my sort for this codegolf is O(n), which is nice, but looking for values is exponentially big... depending on this values xD
 
1 hour later…
10:49
    						if not errorprinted then
    							huston_weve_got_a_problem=true
2
Was looking at some LUA code from 2007
11:17
@LegionMammal978 Where is this lua from? ^^
11:36
@Katenkyo It's a compiler for an old esolang
@LegionMammal978 Which esolang? ^^
11:53
A BF derivative
huston?
0/10 not houston_weve_had_a_problem
@MarsUltor 0/10 would not ask for help again
12:24
Well then ... Digital Trauma right on the heels of Alex in the primaries. That's interesting.
@TimmyD It's because of this +1 picture of him
People are happy when they see this sign on top of their screen -> associating it with his picture :D (it's a joke, just in case :p)
 
1 hour later…
13:31
Chat eez ded.
@quintopia Same.
I was actually planning to vote for @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ, @CoolestVeto, and @quartata.
That was going to be it,
And they all dropped out. ಠ_ಠ
@zyabin101 what time is it for you?
@EasterlyIrk 17:35 here.
okai
06:38 here.
ohai @PhiNotPi
13:39
Hello @PhiNotPi!
I'm also on the heels of Alex in the primary, using a logarithmic scale.
Call up the @jQueryOS/design team to check out my icons. I've done the desktop, and I'm actively doing the rest.
@PhiNotPi :D
@zyabin101 okai thanks
brb finding/looking
I posted the desktop icon in the AvocadOS room.
@zyabin101 I still haven't checked if I can run it... Hasn't been home since 2 weeks, so it may have to wait again ^^'.
ven
ven
13:47
@isaacg ahoy, maybe you can provide an explanation here?
14:05
@ven Hm. That's basically a case of the Pyth parser rules being rlatively simple, and not intended to cover that case really, and it happening to work out anyways.
ven
ven
14:34
thanks! I'm sure other people would like you to comment there
Any mobile game recommendations?
ven
ven
Robot Unicorn Attack.
@feersum Nemo Picross? (it's nonograms)
I've been playing Clash Royale, which is suprisingly not P2W for a Supercell game. Plus, no ads.
14:46
I wonder what a Thrappuccino tastes like
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino This type of games tend to be a little bit too repetitirepetitirepetitive for me
@quartata Like a cappuccino, except it's based on thrash :)
@Katenkyo I like it because I only have ~5 minutes to play at a time, so I can knock out a round real quick. The rounds are limited to 4 minutes.
@quartata You'll have to ask Tristan over in the Python room.
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino I'm more the type of people who will put at least 1/2 hours in a session, and not play if it's for a few mins
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino I've been pretty impressed with clash royale. It's much more strategy-based than any phone game i've seen so far
(besides Hearthstone, but that's not really a mobile game)
Yeah, those are the two I play these days.
14:48
It may be because I've mainly played games where 30 mins is something like the atomic unit of time if you want to do something
I didn't have high hopes for CR, because I hated CoC.
But I've been playing for ~3 weeks, and I really like it.
I find myself playing at least once a day, which doesn't usually happen.
(Any fan of Monster Hunter idling in this chatroom? \o/)
@Katenkyo Erm, nope. No one... No.
@Katenkyo Can't say I've played it. I like idle games, though.
@zyabin101 Ahah, an other one who lost a good part of his life in this incredible game ^^
14:53
Thanks all for suggestions.
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino Makes sense, most quest in monster hunter will end up taking 20-40 mins of try-hard to be completed... Not really recommended in this situation ^^
@Katenkyo I don't play this incredible game.
But did you use to?
@Katenkyo I do not play MH but I know a friend who lost about 10 years of his life to it
@zyabin101 so much negations that I actually don't know if that was a real nope or a disguised yes
14:57
What is wrong with it?
@quartata The second opus drained me about 1200h and I'm only at around 80% of the achievements
The Nineteenth Byte General discussion for gaming.stackexchange.com ... :D
@Katenkyo I don't actually play this game, and I didn't know of people that play it. In such cases I usually say "Erm, nope. No one... No."
@EasterlyIrk Nothing is. It's just a well designed game, and you easily lose track of time because everything takes a lot of it, while being stressing for your nerves -> feels like 5 mins have passed when you've actually played 45 mins
15:00
Also, people tend to have putted a lot of effort in it because it will reward you for how good you're getting, it's your skill at playing that really matter, not your character's stats
@TimmyD More like general discussion for every other stackexchange x)
@Katenkyo This is true.
I think that's why our chatrrom is so active, and usually friendly, we actually get to know each other a little more, sometimes by speaking of technical things (maybe related to work), our countries or our hobbies
0
Q: Does a literal string for a command line shell count as a "program"?

SparrAs I compose this answer (http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/76418/4787) it occurs to me that I would never actually put that into a shell script. I would just type it at the command line, with the parameter filename at the end. Does it make sense to count the characters in that command line ra...

@TimmyD wherein we accept Alex's right to be wrong on the internet, but also like to be wrong on the internet, so occasionally we're wrong on the internet about Alex's wrong on the internet, and that's also okay? It made sense at the time.
3
I'd say we should set that to the new topic but then @badp would complain
@Katenkyo Actually, I think this chat room is so friendly because the major participants are all really friendly.
Especially Alex.
15:11
@El'endiaStarman The fact that we're a playing site (I mean, we're hacking around with some code, but generally, nothing really serious) may help too
Question: if alex is elected as a mod, can we say that the by inheritance?
Yeah, maybe. We don't have factions and fandoms quite like SFF does.
@quartata badp?
@Katenkyo Only if he's our daddy parent.
The most heated rivalries in here are Python vs JavaScript and tabs vs spaces. :P
Oh, so sanity vs insanity. ;)
15:12
@PhiNotPi Moderator on Arqade. What I posted is the Bridge's current topic with "your" replaced with "Alex"
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino I'm scared to be wrong now...
He's usually the one who sets the topics so
@El'endiaStarman And maybe those bashing Java vs those trying to golf it down under 444 ^^
@Katenkyo Nah, not really a rivalry.
@El'endiaStarman Python vs JavaScript is a rivalry? I thought it was the sort of thing where you gave JavaScript an unplugged controller so it could play along and pretend it's doing stuff while Python does all the hard work and actually beats the game.
2
15:14
And if it is, not as common/big.
@El'endiaStarman it must fall under the sanity vs insanity :D
@TimmyD All that while C actually made the game and allowed Python to play by giving him a Python-Game Interface :)
Hah.
@Katenkyo Yeah, but when C tries to play it, it accidentally hits the wrong button and the console explodes.
g'morning m8s
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino SNES Overflow
15:17
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino C was running, C saw a wall, C tried to jump on it... SEGFAULT
At least, it's better than assembly, it's still trying to find out how to move its muscle
@Katenkyo But once it figures that out, the muscle moves really fast.
> Foot yourself in the shoot.
@crayzeedude Monring!
My favorite is Lisp:
> You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds...
15:23
APL:
> You shoot yourself in the foot; then spend all day figuring out how to do it in fewer characters.
s/APL/(Jelly|Pyth|CJam|MATL)
No python :shrug:
I mean, I do all my golfing in Python, but it's not like I'll ever beat any of those.
I think zyabin101 is referring to the shooting-one's-foot jokes.
@ChrisJester-Young Yes :-)
15:26
Oh, that would make sense. :P
More expanded list.
> You shoot yourself in the foot and then brag for hours about how much more elegantly you did it than if you had been using C or (God forbid) Perl.
> You create a gun module, a gun class, a foot module, and a foot class. After realizing you can't point the gun at the foot, you pass a reference to the gun to a foot object. After the foot is blown up, the gun object remains alive for eternity, ready to shoot all future feet that may happen to appear.
Ruby:
> You shoot yourself in the foot and then have to justify it to all your friends who are still naively using Perl.
There are also OSes. Excluding Windows Vista :shrug:
Oh god, the entry for dBase is E_TOO_REAL.
> You squeeze the trigger, but someone corrupted the index and the bullet shoots you in the eye.
Mac OS X:
> ◦You try to shoot yourself in the foot from the GUI but the gun has inexplicably turned into a bag of Skittles.
@NathanMerrill I think I have a good idea for a code-bots spinoff. I'll base it off this board game: flatlinedgames.com/Games/twin_tin_bots
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino This site had an ad that had me recall:
Who supports the idea of a free rice discussion room?
15:37
Basically, each "bot" has a simple program that is just a series of steps to execute each turn (move forward, turn, etc.). The goal of a bot is to collect "crystals" strewn about the board.
Speaking of ads, I just saw one asking me what kind of "Spring Break Athlete" I am. None, the answer is none.
Google's ad tracking is going downhill.
The twist that this challenge would have is that, instead of programming the bot directly, users will write a program to program the bot as the game progresses.
@El'endiaStarman it moves fast but takes a long time knowing how to do its next movement
@PhiNotPi AHHH TOO META
^ A device for withdrawing cash from your bank.
@zyabin101 Okay, no one. But I have some more ideas for my first chatroom.
15:43
@El'endiaStarman I actually think it will be really fun, though.
Strange that I get a mention when I reply to my post.
@zyabin101 The SE chat system was not designed to let you reply to yourself, so it doesn't bother checking to see if you did.
The key is to keep the game simple enough so that the meta programming is actually pretty easy.
@El'endiaStarman You can even make a self-reply message (though it requires you to edit in the current message's id after the fact), or even a message that replies to a future message (ditto).
3
Q: Unlocking the Secrets to a 1-Dimensional Labyrinth

turbulencetooBackground You awake to find yourself lost in a one dimensional labyrinth! A mystical genie (or something) appears and explains that the exit lies in front of you, but that between you and the exit is a series of challenges. As you wander forward you realize that all of the so-called challenges ...

15:51
(Trivia: I have tried making self-reply messages by guessing the next message ID. That won't actually become a self-reply until you edit the message, even if you don't change anything in it.)
@ChrisJester-Young or you try dumb luck
:28593812 maybe
:28593814 maybe like this?
He's saying that even if you get the ID right you have to edit the message for it to update.
Yep, what quartata said.

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