The Nineteenth Byte

orlp

03:00

why not arbitrary bases between 0 and 36?

Downgoat

true...

orlp

but IMO

Downgoat

but what characters would I use?

orlp

to save programmers from errors

only binary, decimal and hex IMO

octal can be ok

Mars Ultor

@Downgoat b1 to bz?

orlp

03:00

but not anything else

@MarsUltor nah

1001111_b2

Downgoat

I have a literal for each base. So binary is 0b<binary number> 0t<trinary number>

orlp

@Downgoat for the love of god btw

quartata

Ternary isn't very useful usually

orlp

0777 don't make that octal

octal is 0o777 or not at all

Downgoat

octal is 0o777

Mars Ultor

03:02

but it's usually 0777

orlp

@MarsUltor which is total garbage

Downgoat

really?

orlp

and should not be copied into newly designed languages

Mars Ultor

how is 1001111b2 bad/hard to read?

Downgoat

yes

binary should be the first thing

Mars Ultor

03:02

@Downgoat Yeah, but I agree it is total garbage

Downgoat

ok

quartata

@Downgoat By the way, s/trinary/ternary

Downgoat

So I'll just add binary, ternary, octal, and hexadecimal then

quartata

I think the only literals you need are binary octal decimal and hex

phase

0[1-9a-z][0-9a-z]+ looks better in my opinion, 0532 + 0513 = 05100 (check my math pls)

Mars Ultor

03:04

@Downgoat 0b, 0o, and 0x

quartata

I cannot think of a usecase for ternary

Downgoat

ok then, I won't add ternary

phase

Is this for a golfing language?

Downgoat

no

Mars Ultor

@quartata What about balanced ternary?

quartata

03:04

0c would look better for octal

Mars Ultor

It's for this

phase

speak := => What is the => doing?

Mars Ultor

@phase Returns probably

Downgoat

@phase := is assignment => is function

Mars Ultor

@Downgoat => = lambda?

Downgoat

03:05

yes

-> is a lambda too

Mars Ultor

:= = Backus-Naur style assignment

quartata

@MarsUltor balanced ternary would be cool maybe

phase

Why not have implicit lambda assignment?

Downgoat

@phase -> is lambda with arguments => is lambda without arguments

oh

Mars Ultor

@phase ?

LockOpeners

03:08

p6 has a nice thing where you can use a symbol to denote a placeholder var, and they become the arguments of a lambda in lexical order

{ $^c + $^a * $^b } takes arguments $a, $b, $c

Mars Ultor

@phase speak => DoSomething() and speak foo bar -> DoSomething(foo, bar)?

Downgoat

oh

@MarsUltor that is brilliant

phase

When you have an identifier with a => or -> after it, why not automatically assign it? The assignment operator is just a waist of characters.

Mars Ultor

Or speak Int:foo, String:bar -> DoSomething(foo, bar)?

Downgoat

I don't know how hard that will be to parse

Mars Ultor

03:09

@Downgoat IDK, I can help if you want

name is first word, args are words before ->

phase

@Downgoat Just group identifiers up, and check ident (ident)* (=-)> ...

Mars Ultor

so basically something like function.split('->').split(' ') or something, arr[0][0] is name, arr[0].slice(1) is args, arr[1] is body

Downgoat

hm :/ I will have to see how to handle that with unary ops and all

I'll try

Chris Jester-Young

What's with all this manual splitting? I thought you're using a lexer+parser-generator. :-P

Mars Ultor

@Downgoat Wait, you'll be able to declare unary ops?

phase

03:12

^^

Downgoat

@MarsUltor yes

phase

Is the language interpreted or compiled? And if the latter, to what?

Mars Ultor

@Downgoat won't that be a modifier keyword? unary foo bar => DoSomething(bar)

@phase Interpreted in JS

Downgoat

@MarsUltor what do you mean?

LockOpeners

Yeah what kind of crazy person parses with splits

Mars Ultor

03:13

@LockOpeners It was just an example :(

LockOpeners

You're crazy Mars

Crazy I say

Mars Ultor

@Downgoat Like public static in C#/Java, unary should be a modifier (so parser sees it and knows it's not the function name)

then parser ensures it takes in one argument and adds it as a unary function

Downgoat

so you'd be doing unary sqrt 4?

I'd rather just do a check when interpreting

phase

no, to define them

Mars Ultor

@Downgoat no, unary is just in function declaration

Downgoat

03:16

I think I can just avoid it all together, by just reserving some keywords.

Mars Ultor

same as infix + left right => add(left, right) (or binary instead of infix)

Yeah, unary and infix are meant to be keywords

Downgoat

oh, so when defining an operator?

Mars Ultor

Yes

Downgoat

ohhh

okay

Mars Ultor

Wait

not unary

prefix and postfix

Downgoat

03:17

okay

quintopia

@quartata when did you explain why you dropped out? was it for the reasons xnor was complaining about?

Mars Ultor

so you can declare i++ and ++i

orlp

well

graph generation works

Click here

warning: large

Doorknob

^ understatement

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob Warning: secretly a busy beaver.

Downgoat

03:27

@orlp large understatement. can you replace so it doesn't make all out browsers lag?

Alex A.

@orlp Just having it visible is making my browser lag

Mars Ultor

@AlexA. Get Firefox

Alex A.

I have it. I just don't use it.

LockOpeners

that's a big image

Alex A.

Hooray, I can scroll again!

LockOpeners

03:29

lol

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. There, I just elevened the image out-of-line.

Alex A.

\o/

Doorknob

@ChrisJester-Young +11

Alex A.

じゅういち

Doorknob

translate en: じゅういち

(from Japanese) Eleven

LockOpeners

03:30

oh thanks

I was gonna ask for a translation

Doorknob

십일

Alex A.

translate: 십일

(from Korean) 10 days

Chris Jester-Young

translate: 十一

(from zh-CHS) Eleven

Doorknob

@AlexA. ... what

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Fail.

LockOpeners

03:31

is there a magical translation thing you're all using

Doorknob

I'll try the other form

translate en: 열하나

(from Korean) Column one

Mars Ultor

@LockOpeners Mod superpowers

Doorknob

@Doorknob ...

LockOpeners

wow

Alex A.

@LockOpeners It is indeed magical

Well

The fact that it exists is magical

Mars Ultor

03:31

It's bing, Google Translate >> Bing Translate

Alex A.

But it's using Bing under the hood, so the translations are garbage

LockOpeners

lol

Mars Ultor

I wonder why SE doesn't use Google Translate

LockOpeners

I think google makes you pay

Chris Jester-Young

That would be because using Bing Translate is free, and Google Translate is not. That would be my personal reasoning, anyway.

Jinx!

Alex A.

03:32

Bing probably integrates well with the rest of the Microsoft stuff they use

orlp

allright

I solved the large problem

Downgoat

> Bang Translate

Alex A.

@orlp Now is it a small problem?

orlp

happy now?

Chris Jester-Young

@Downgoat Thanks!

LockOpeners

03:33

@orlp oh god

Alex A.

> goid

LockOpeners

lol

El'endia Starman

@orlp :O ...... what a terrible visualization. :P

Alex A.

@ChrisJester-Young じゅういちをありがとうございました。

El'endia Starman

I was expecting something....y'know..... treelike. :P

Alex A.

03:35

@El'endiaStarman Is this not what trees look like? Maybe I should go outside.

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Done.

aditsu

juuichiwoarigatogozaimasu

Alex A.

@ChrisJester-Young ?

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. ....where do you live that you don't live in trees?!

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. I thought you asked for the other image to be elevened too. I clearly misinterpreted.

Alex A.

03:36

@El'endiaStarman Haha I live in the woods, actually.

Doorknob

@El'endiaStarman He got stuck in one the other day, remember? I think he's in denial that they exist now.

Downgoat

@Doorknob but that tree wasn't in the woods

Alex A.

@ChrisJester-Young Oh, haha, no. Requesting would have ください in it

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Okay, I'll twelve it then.

Alex A.

Twelve

Chris Jester-Young

03:37

;-)

Alex A.

translate: じゅういちをありがとうございました。

(from Japanese) Thank you for the rest.

Um nope

El'endia Starman

@orlp Oh. Oh my.

Alex A.

じゅういちをありがとうございました。== Thank you for the eleven

aditsu

s/su/shita/

Doorknob

mi ckire do lo nu me li papa co'e

Chris Jester-Young

03:40

@aditsu I'm sure Alex did have shita instead of su.

aditsu

yes, I was correcting myself

Chris Jester-Young

Ah.

Mars Ultor

@aditsu ಠ_ಠ get an IME

aditsu

我有咗

Chris Jester-Young

@aditsu Nice Cantonese. :-D

aditsu

03:43

多謝：）

Alex A.

@aditsu I did have shita. した <-- right there

Chris Jester-Young

(I know you do/did live in Hong Kong. I was born in Hong Kong, and speak Cantonese. :-P)

Alex A.

(Are you fluent?)

aditsu

@ChrisJester-Young I'm still a noob but trying to learn

Chris Jester-Young

@aditsu 唔使客氣

aditsu

03:44

> yes, I was correcting myself

Alex A.

translate: 唔使客氣

(from zh-CHT) And do not hesitate

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Fluent enough to talk to my parents. But I wouldn't call it professional level.

orlp

what about a reasonably sized pretty graph?

El'endia Starman

I know nothing in any of these languages. :P

orlp

Chris Jester-Young

03:44

@AlexA. cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/words/2119

El'endia Starman

Except English.

Alex A.

@aditsu o i c o k

El'endia Starman

@orlp Ooooh, that's perfectly sized.

Mars Ultor

has chat too small to read the 汉字

Alex A.

get a big chat

Mars Ultor

03:46

@AlexA. Then I won't be able to see the entire starboard

Alex A.

1 min ago, by Alex A.

@aditsu o i c o k

orlp

@El'endiaStarman the code to generate that is dead simple btw

aditsu

@AlexA. haha fail

it pretty much means "you're welcome" or "no worries"

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. 唔使客氣 is the standard response to 多謝, 唔該, etc.

@aditsu Right, though it literally means "no need to be polite". :-)

aditsu

yeah

orlp

03:49

@El'endiaStarman gist.githubusercontent.com/orlp/90646c53320d847095fe/raw/…

aditsu

google translate doesn't know Cantonese either

Chris Jester-Young

@aditsu Yeah, Cantonese is kind of a complicated language. :-)

Alex A.

Is Cantonese a tonal language?

Mars Ultor

@aditsu It knows Chinese

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Yes, it has 6 tones instead of 4 for Mandarin.

Alex A.

03:49

I don't know that I've heard it spoken

Mars Ultor

Same writing

El'endia Starman

@orlp Wow, nice.

Chris Jester-Young

@MarsUltor There are many Cantonese-specific characters.

Mars Ultor

All Chinese dialects are tonal

Alex A.

@ChrisJester-Young Brutal. There are 5 for Thai. Six is nuts.

Chris Jester-Young

03:50

that you'll never find in Mandarin text.

aditsu

@AlexA. have you seen any Jackie Chan movies? :p

Mars Ultor

@ChrisJester-Young Well, it's similar enough for Google to not prioritize it

Alex A.

@aditsu All dubbed in English :P

aditsu

ah, dubbing sucks

Chris Jester-Young

@MarsUltor Tell Google to translate 唔該. :-)

That's a strictly Cantonese-only phrase.

Mars Ultor

03:51

has only seen the Jackie Chan movies in which he speaks English

@ChrisJester-Young I know. In Simplified Mandarin it's 不用客气 IIRC

Chris Jester-Young

@MarsUltor Or, 冚唪唥.

aditsu

the same English phrase often translates differently in Cantonese and Mandarin; standard written Chinese is based on Mandarin but you can write Cantonese too (and it's different)

Chris Jester-Young

@MarsUltor Right, that's pretty close. Whereas you'd be hard-pressed to find a near-translation for 冚唪唥 in Mandarin. :-)

Mars Ultor

@QPaysTaxes Yes

@ChrisJester-Young Yeah, I saw the dictionary page

> written Chinese: 全部, 一共, 總共, 通通, 統統

Chris Jester-Young

@QPaysTaxes There are Cantonese pronunciation for standard Chinese characters, but there are also Cantonese-specific characters.

aditsu

03:57

@QPaysTaxes yes and no, Cantonese speakers usually write in standard Chinese, but it's not a direct correspondence between speech and writing

Mars Ultor

@QPaysTaxes Same as Japanese, just Japanese is more different than Cantonese

Chris Jester-Young

@QPaysTaxes Kind of.

@aditsu zh-yue.wikipedia.org has Cantonese-specific articles, that use Cantonese instead of standard Chinese. :-P

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes So far.

aditsu

@QPaysTaxes cool :)

Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes we suck rocks?

Mars Ultor

03:59

@Downgoat Do you plan on haivng a c9 workspace for Cheddar?

Downgoat

@MarsUltor I haven't looked into C9, what is it?

Chris Jester-Young

@Downgoat Cloud IDE.

c9.io

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