The Nineteenth Byte

Doorknob

11:00 PM

because nobody participated in it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

RikerW

:(

I bet Dennis outgolfed them all. :P

Anonymous

"You provide attribution to the author" - Debatable. In a closed-source project, there is effectively no public attribution since the attribution only exists in a source file. That's not attribution, IMO. | "Regardless, most of this stuff doesn’t meet a threshold of originality to be copyrighted anyway." - That's true for SO, but not necessarily for Code Review or Programming Puzzles. — Thomas Owens 1 min ago

Anonymous

> not necessarily for Code Review or Programming Puzzles.

RikerW

Yeah.

I think it a request for use should be nessacary first.

Cameron Aavik

What's the general consensus on people solving their own challenges?

RikerW

11:02 PM

Fine, but not eligible to win.

Alex A.

@RikerW You can win your own challenge

Rainbolt

11

Q: Can I compete in my own challenge?

What are the rules/community consensus about participating in your own challenge? Does it differ for each of code-golf, popularity-contest and king-of-the-hill? The person that asks the question isn't the one who picks a winner so...

discussion

Luis Mendo

@Dennis Found it. Just type pkg rebuild -auto image (for image and for the other packages) and that will configure them as autoload

RikerW

@AlexA. Oh, okay

Cameron Aavik

alright, cool

RikerW

11:04 PM

Where is your club?

Dennis

@LuisMendo OK, I just did that for all three.

Cameron Aavik

University of Queensland

@Dennis Working! :-)

\o/

@CameronAavik Okay.

11:05 PM

@Dennis I really appreciate your dedication with all this

Alex A.

I really appreciate Dennis.

RikerW

I do to.

For his golfiness.

Cameron Aavik

What is a good esolang to learn first? Pyth?

RikerW

BF.

:P

Probably cjam.

Cameron Aavik

I've learnt that one actually haha

RikerW

11:07 PM

Hexagony for the brave.

Dennis

@LuisMendo Glad for it. :) I have big plans for TIO.

Alex A.

@CameronAavik Depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to golf, Pyth or Jelly would be good (though the latter is still under heavy development).

Cameron Aavik

but it seems impossible to do anything involving numerical input unless its letter input

Or, I could learn an esolang that no-one else uses

and be the only one who golfs in it :P

Alex A.

Quipu

RikerW

Make your own.

I am sorta working on one, but not at all for golfing. :P

Alex A.

11:09 PM

One day I'll keep working on my language.

Cameron Aavik

When making your own, do you compile to a higher level language?

RikerW

Yes.

Cameron Aavik

or to bytecode/assembly

RikerW

I use python

Cameron Aavik

I was thinking if I was to make one it'd compile to java bytecode (Since I am quite familiar with it)

Alex A.

11:10 PM

You can do either, but it's a hell of a lot easier to compile to a higher level language.

(Well, depending on how you do it I guess, idk)

As you'll soon come to realize, alex-is-wrong.

RikerW

^

:P

Cameron Aavik

I thought bytecode would be easier, it's a lot easier to manage weird control flow compared to turning it into if statements

Anonymous

I wrote Seriously, and it's not (currently) compiled

Cameron Aavik

whereas in bytecode it's just goto branch and simple

Anonymous

It's interpreted with Python

RikerW

11:11 PM

Oh, yeah, interpreter.

I forgot the difference between compile/interpret.

Anonymous

Pure interpreted is usually the easiest way to do it

Anonymous

Compile/transpile: translate code to different language and do stuff with that

Cyoce

Are you kidding? Transpiling is much easier.

Luis Mendo

@Dennis ooh. Of course

RikerW

Try it online.

His online interpreter for like everything.

tryitonline.net

Luis Mendo

11:15 PM

@RikerW Oh, of course! :-)

RikerW

lol

Its okay.

What language is your native one?

Luis Mendo

Spanish. How about you?

RikerW

English.

Where from? I am actually 3rd gen mexican.

Luis Mendo

I also speak some Italian. But I'm not fluent

RikerW

Okay.

Luis Mendo

11:16 PM

I'm from Spain (Madrid)

RikerW

Cool.

Luis Mendo

I have a Mexican friend. She did her PhD in our group, then went back to Mexico

RikerW

You still live in spain?

Or 'murica.

Luis Mendo

The differences between Spanish-Spanish and Mexican-Spanish are sometime funny :-)

I live in Madrid, Spain

RikerW

Okay.

@LuisMendo I know.

I lisp naturally, and have actually been mistaken for spainish spanish.

Luis Mendo

11:18 PM

I went to America twice. One week trips only. I'd like to go ther more often

RikerW

Okay.

Luis Mendo

Do you live in the US?

RikerW

Yes, Southern California.

Anonymous

@Cyoce Transpiling is easy when there's an unambigious mapping between the input language and the output language. It's less easy when it's a language that is more complicated than shortening a bunch of method names.

Luis Mendo

@RikerW That sounds nice! Warm weather, sea is near

RikerW

11:20 PM

No, actually like 5% of SoCal is on the beach.

I live like 5 hours away. :P

Cyoce

@Mego Yeah, that's true

RikerW

Been to the beach exactly 2 times in 13 years.

Alex A.

@LuisMendo Let me know if you ever come to Seattle, Washington. It's objectively the best place in the United States, if not the Earth.

RikerW

lol

flawr

You know, the first two days I was in california, it was raining!

RikerW

11:21 PM

alex-is-wrong

@flawr We could use that right now...

flawr

I was somehow happy and disappointed at the same time.

@RikerW Yes it was this summer=)

Anonymous

I have a low opinion of languages that just take an existing language and shorten the method/command names and syntax. They're unoriginal IMO. Too many "golfy javascript" languages lately for my tastes.

RikerW

^

I prefer esolangs to golfing lngs.

flawr

@Lembik that question was asked over a year ago, lol

@RikerW I prefer chocolate.

RikerW

Same.

Maltysen

11:23 PM

@flawr I don't know, some esolangs are pretty tasty

RikerW

rofl

Anonymous

I prefer unique, new languages over unoriginal, golfy-<insert existing language here> "languages"

Alex A.

@Mego While I agree in general, Pyth is an exception to that in my mind. It's really gone beyond its roots in "shortened Python" into something entirely its own.

Luis Mendo

@AlexA. Of course! The city of Jimi Hendrix!

Maltysen

@AlexA. I even have a non-transpiler implmentation written

Anonymous

11:26 PM

@AlexA. Pyth was never intended to be just "shortened Python", from what I can tell

Alex A.

@Mego AFAIK it was when it began.

@Maltysen Nice!

For Pyth 5?

Cyoce

Does jQuery .click know to wait until the document has loaded?

Alex A.

Of course. It's jQuery. It's great and does all things.

Maltysen

@AlexA. no, its not even done, just a full framework, now I need to copy paste macros.py over

Alex A.

@LuisMendo Yes, among other great things. :)

Anonymous

11:27 PM

@AlexA. I wasn't around then, so I can't say for sure. It certainly isn't that now, which is what matters to me

Alex A.

Right, and that was my point. :)

Anonymous

To me, all the new shortened JS languages say "I only know Javascript but I want to be competitive so instead of learning new languages I'm just going to make a golfy Javascript variant"

Cyoce

@AlexA. Including removing newlines from .text() so I have to convert it into DOM and check the DOM object's .innerText

Luis Mendo

@Dennis I've pushed a new release (9.3.0) to GitHub. It includes the online mode, which prevents any file read functions from being used and removes the input prompt. To use it, add the o flag: matl -of filename

Anonymous

@Cyoce If you wrap it in onDocumentReady, sure

Maltysen

11:28 PM

@Cyoce you should probably google it and not take my advice, but I doubt that it does that

^^

feersum

To me, shortened Javascript languages scream JAVASCRIPT EW EW EW EW!!!!

Alex A.

haha

Anonymous

Well that too

J Atkin

I'm currently editing the language definition of X. How does it look? meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/8103/42736

Cyoce

Damn jQuery doesn't do it.

Alex A.

11:30 PM

@JAtkin You mean X, the windowing system that's been around since before the majority of the people in here were born?

Cyoce

Now I can't have everything look nice ):

@JAtkin > Nubmber

What?

Typo, dude.

@AlexA. Never heard of it...

Alex A.

11:31 PM

X Window System

The X Window System ('X11, or shortened to simply X, and sometimes informally X-Windows) is a windowing system for bitmap displays, common on UNIX-like computer operating systems. X provides the basic framework for a GUI environment: drawing and moving windows on the display device and interacting with a mouse and keyboard. X does not mandate the user interface — this is handled by individual programs. As such, the visual styling of X-based environments varies greatly; different programs may present radically different interfaces. X originated at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)...

J Atkin

BRB

RikerW

> product: List of numbers -> Nubmber Get the product of a list

@JAtkin ^

Anonymous

JavaScript function golf, Glava, Japt, sort of TeaScript... All of those are unoriginal and boring

RikerW

@AlexA. I use x11.

DF needs it.

Alex A.

What's DF?

J Atkin

11:32 PM

New name. Y

RikerW

@AlexA. Dwarf Fortress.

I started playing it recently.

@TheNumberOne linked me to it, and I liked it.

Alex A.

@JAtkin Existed since 1981

RikerW

rofl

get rekt

Alex A.

Chances are, if your language's name is a single ASCII letter, the name is already in use.

flawr

New name. ç

Alex A.

11:34 PM

^ that may not be taken

J Atkin

Hmph. It's just a place holder for now until I find a better name.

Why would someone name a language Y?

flawr

That is the reason.

Alex A.

...says the person who was just about to name a language Y.

RikerW

1 min ago, by RikerW

get rekt

flawr

What is "rekt"?

J Atkin

11:36 PM

No, it's just a place holder, like X was.

RikerW

@flawr wrecked

the stupid way

flawr

Oh

I always imagined something dirtier.

Nvm

RikerW

lol

You didn't know that?

flawr

Nö.

I recently discovered heavy-metal-umlauts.

Im gönnä üse them ällwäÿs fröm nöw ön.

RikerW

Ökäÿ, göt ït.

flawr

11:38 PM

Bëcäüsë it söünds sö ridicülöüs if you pronounce it in german.

Like a french trying to speak english.

Alex A.

haha

@flawr ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

RikerW

Bae(cach)se ut sahnds so redeedoohlauhs.

Zgarb

@RikerW DF is awesome, but I don't have the time for it.

Luis Mendo

@flawr They have a name for looking "harsh" and "tough". But actually they make the vowel sound softer :-)

RikerW

In german roughly.

@Zgarb Aww.

MAKE TIME NOW

flawr

11:40 PM

@LuisMendo Yeah totally. I mean Motorhead sounds ok, but Motörhead is just ridiculous.

Zgarb

I just read the devlog and laugh at the ridiculous bugs.

Cyoce

Huh.

RikerW

Motoorhead.

Cyoce

I just discovered a nasty JS hack.

Alex A.

@flawr Or Blue Öyster Cult

RikerW

11:41 PM

@Zgarb I know.

:P

I hate goblin performance troupes though...

J Atkin

Ok, new placeholder name @AlexA. H

flawr

@AlexA. Somone has impaired speach.

RikerW

@flawr no, its just that alex-is-wrong

flawr

You mean älex-is-wröng

Alex A.

@JAtkin brb, googling to find some obscure language from the 80s with that name :P

flawr

11:42 PM

hahahaa, it is sooooo ridiculours=)

RikerW

dcoj.wmh3.com/cscos/h

Cyoce

[1,2] === [1,2] // false
[1,2] > [1,2]   // false
[1,2] < [1,2]   // false
[1,2] >= [1,2]  // true!
[1,2] <= [1,2]  // true!

RikerW

H programming language ^^

J Atkin

No need, Wikipedia is always right™

Wikipedia is not always right™

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I'm okay with that. And I'm not okay with that!

flawr

11:45 PM

^ = false

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

How so? :3

flawr

Except you mean the ORAND operator when you say 'and'

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I'm not acquainted with that operator. Enlighten me?

Alex A.

It's OR, but it's also AND. It's ORAND.

J Atkin

Every thing is true

Cyoce

11:47 PM

Anyone gonna comment on my JS hack?

flawr

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Cyoce montrez-moi?

flawr

@AlexA. For example AND ORAND OR == TRUE

Cyoce

english?

ummm

Alex A.

translate: montrez-moi

(from French) Show me

Cyoce

11:48 PM

[1,2] === [1,2] // false

[1,2] > [1,2]   // false
[1,2] < [1,2]   // false
[1,2] >= [1,2]  // true!
[1,2] <= [1,2]  // true!

flawr

Note that montrez is plural, so that is the polite form.

feersum

How is that a "hack"? It doesn't do anything.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr Oui.

Cyoce

@feersum It allows you to compare JS objects by contents, not reference

Something that has not been properly solved

feersum

To do an N-level-deep comparison in Javascript, one must use N+3 equals signs.

2

Alex A.

11:51 PM

I assume that's a joke but it sounds plausible

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@feersum You must, of course, be using an infinite computer storage to perform a true deep copy :P

feersum

E.g., A ===== B Compares the children and grandchildren by value, but the great-grandchildren by reference equality.

flawr

So for example if you want to compare the chlidren of B and D you have to do B===D?

Cyoce

seems to work for any depth

feersum

@flawr gets it!

SuperJedi224

11:52 PM

Hi

flawr

@feersum haiphaiph

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

A ====================================================================== B "What? No, my finger didn't fall asleep on the = key, thank you very much."

@Cyoce dude this is sick I've never seen this before

flawr

New Language: ∄

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Of course, it's not a true deep copy.

> equals([1,2,3],[1,2,"3"])
< true

flawr

EW

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

11:54 PM

> equals([1,2,null],[1,2,undefined])
< true

SuperJedi224

Conclusion: Javascript is weird.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Duh.

flawr

Equality!

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr Haiti fan?

Zgarb

@flawr Someone should make a language based on complex numbers and call it ℂ.

flawr

11:56 PM

No idea what you're talking about=)

@Zgarb With the +- operators, e.g a = 1+i; +-a == 2

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Zgarb Hamiltonians are ℂ++

flawr

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Not really.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

shh

flawr

Rather ℂ--

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Because alex-is-wrong, it's ℂ++.

flawr

11:59 PM

Javascript: _=1;_-=--_-----_-- is perfectly valid.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

lies

< _=1;_-=--_-----_--
x SyntaxError: missing ; before statement

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