The Nineteenth Byte

Vɪʜᴀɴ

17:22

Huh, today's fibonacci day. I propose a fibonacci challenge

Zach Gates

^

Doorknob

Well, you just missed Fibonacci Time on Fibonacci Day (11:23 11/23), in my timezone at least. :P

Optimizer

23 11 2015 -> not a Fibonacci series

Vɪʜᴀɴ

Still 9:26 here in california

11/23 if fibonacci enough for me

Is this way too broad?

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fibonacci Day! popularity-contestascii-art Background Today's is 11/23 or Fibonacci day! What better way to celebrate than to make a fibonacci cake? Challenge You must write a program that outputs a cake but that cake must be something related to the fibonacci sequence Twist! Your code'...

Doorknob

yes

New Sandboxed Posts

17:33

I'm a bot don't mind me

Geobits

There's not even a spec to judge right now :/

Optimizer

so advocate?

Vɪʜᴀɴ

Okay, I rewrote it as a code-golf. Hope that's better

Martin Büttner

17:53

I don't think the source code restriction is interesting.

So far, no one has found a decent way to forbid padding, so requiring a fixed code length can always be achieved quite trivially.

Doorknob

^

JimmyJazzx

^

Doorknob

All that rule does is make it more likely that there will be ties.

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@MartinBüttner In another challenge I've tried "any characters in which the code is not semantically the same without should be excluded." I'll just take it out though

Doorknob

Which is boring because there's less of an incentive to golf down one or two chars.

Stefnotch

18:08

Hi!
BTW, previously C had outgolfed Javascript in this challenge: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/64198/99-bottles-of-beer/64230

Well, that has been "fixed", there are 3 different Javascript answers that are shorter! :D (Javascript is way too popular!)

flawr

@NewSandboxedPosts Why do you talk to us then?

Optimizer

18:23

Zootopia Official US Sloth Trailer

►

best

trailer

ever

seen

today

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@Optimizer Reminds me of the DMV

Optimizer

dmv?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Ducttape the Ducttape

Your boss has found out that quite a bunch of his employees (including you) like to steal code from others. He ordered you to write him a program that he can use to find people who steal code from others. Task: Write a program/function that detects if somebody copied (part of) his code from som...

0

Q: Define map in the fewest tokens

map is a very basic yet important function in functional programming. All FP programming languages have it built-in but it is always fun to see how shortly you can define it yourself. This will be scored in tokens, not bytes. A token is the second-smallest building block of a program, over cha...

code-golf functional-programming

Stefnotch

*posts a question*
*gets flooded with questions/comments*

2

Optimizer

18:49

*calls 4 comments as a flood*

phase

19:32

mine spawned a war over politics, bet you can't say you did that today

Votes are supposed to be hidden, but I'll still say I really don't like politics and that it has affected my voting on this question. Would the asker mind removing politics from the question or at least explain me any pun I may have missed? A political reference is baked into the spec for good, but it can still be removed from the title. — Jan Dvorak 24 hours ago

TimmyD

19:45

Yay, I'm almost to the end of the chat-activity list!

Dangit.

Zach Gates

What is the noun form of "removing"? Is it "removal", as the comment suggests?

VoteToClose

-.-

@ZachGates A removal would be correct.

TanMath

@Mego how can you unzip a function?

VoteToClose

It literally means: the action of removing.

Zach Gates

@TanMath What does "unzipping a function" do?

@VoteToClose Indeed it does, haha

VoteToClose

19:49

@VoteToClose Well, this is annoying. I got three downvotes today, for no reason. \o/ So happy.

@VoteToClose Can you reply to your own post? Yes. Can you reply to the same post? Yes. I broke the game.

TanMath

@ZachGates transposing...in python, zip(*a)

@VoteToClose you cannot reply to your own post?! how can you!

VoteToClose

@VoteToClose Yes, you can. @TanMath

I just did.

:P

TanMath

oh i get it

VoteToClose

Do you?

TanMath

@TanMath did I reply to myself?

I did!

VoteToClose

19:51

/me claps.

Now, can you @VoteToClose ping yourself?

TanMath

@TanMath look at you... you broke the system! good job @TanMath!

VoteToClose

Without replying.

TanMath

@VoteToClose you can't

VoteToClose

o-o Oookie.

TanMath

I have tried that...

VoteToClose

19:53

Heheh.

TanMath

?

@VoteToClose didn't work?

VoteToClose

I've made it work before. O.o

TanMath

@VoteToClose how?

VoteToClose

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not that way, apparently.

TanMath

doesn't work!

Martin Büttner

20:37

anyone up for a challenge?

0

A: Find the Interweaved Source Codes (Cops)

Hexagony, 6 programs, 53 bytes; Score 8/96 (if safe/cracked) [&;//&z ;!X;!!/@! @)6!< @[!.J @a5|9o;"" |@!!!@] Even if this goes safe, it will be very few points for me, but I thought I'd provide a nice puzzle for robbers to bank some points. :) I have no idea how easy or hard this actuall...

TanMath

I do not think i can even do that challenge!

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@MartinBüttner time to go read the Hexagony docs

TimmyD

@MartinBüttner (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Martin Büttner

@Vɪʜᴀɴ [mission accomplished]

TimmyD

And I thought the BitShift one was evil.

Martin Büttner

20:53

I don't even think that one was valid. BitShift is nowhere near what we consider a valid programming language.

Vɪʜᴀɴ

9

^ me trying to crack the Hexagony answer

VoteToClose

21:12

@Dennis I can trust you not to look at the Vitsy history for my CnR, right? ;)

Justin

@Vɪʜᴀɴ I also feel like this when I code templates in C++.

Dennis

Posting in chat is certainly the proper way to assure that.

VoteToClose

I mean in tryitonline. xD

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sprocket Science: Animating a Chain Drive System code-golf geometry graphical-output animation The goal of this challenge is to produce an animation of a chain drive system, comprised of a set of sprocket gears connected together by a chain. General Requirements Your program will be given a l...

TimmyD

Have we had a CnR challenge where the robbers need to golf the cops' answers?

VoteToClose

21:17

^ I tried to, but it was denied.

Dennis

@VoteToClose Ah, yes, of course.

@TimmyD We did. Didn't go well.

Caridorc

Hello, code-puzzlers and golfers, it's the first time I am in this chat :O

I was thinking about an AST-node-count code-golf

Martin Büttner

@Caridorc welcome! :)

Caridorc

@MartinBüttner hello :)

TimmyD

@Dennis Ah, yes - just found it codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/44567/42963

Caridorc

21:27

The idea is that single character identifier do not really make a language succint

I want to reward saying a program in a few things, no matter if the thing is named a or zipWith

@MartinBüttner What do you think? Should I just create a tag for it? Ask in Meta?

Martin Büttner

There is atomic-code-golf

It usually doesn't work out very well, unless you define a toy language everyone should use, because it's tricky to define tokens in some languages.

VoteToClose

Question: for the newest CnR, when we interweave, we can only map one-to-one, not using one character in the interweaved version twice, yes?

Caridorc

@MartinBüttner i think that each language gets converted to an AST before being executed (maybe an implicit one in the stack) so while tricky it should be un-ambiguous

Martin Büttner

@Caridorc if you actually use ASTs you get the problem, that the entire code can be stuffed in a string and eval'ed

Caridorc

@MartinBüttner just banning eval should solve it

Or considering code in a string to still be code

feersum

21:37

The only possibility to create precise rules for atomic golf is to have a special case for every allowed language.

Doorknob

@Caridorc system("echo 'mycode' | interpreter")

Martin Büttner

What feersum said

What is your motivation here? Do you want to make languages more comparable or do you want to reward a simple code structure?

Caridorc

I see... maybe resctrictive like something like no meta-programming allowed or just say, "obvious loopholes are obvious, do not use them"

Doorknob

Define "meta-programming." Or "obvious."

Caridorc

@MartinBüttner My motivation is paulgraham.com/power.html <- the more succint the better, but not in terms of bytes

@Doorknob ... touché

In short: to write a function you must build the AST in your mind, the smaller the AST the more productive and "better" the programming language

feersum

21:43

I like the idea too, but you have to make an exact definition of the scoring.

Martin Büttner

What is the AST of a language like Ziim?

esolangs.org/wiki/Ziim

Caridorc

@MartinBüttner A wild guess: Each instruction counts as a node, as in a stack-based language

Martin Büttner

I can find you weirder languages if you want ;)

But "a wild guess" is already a problem. It's not that you can't somehow arrive at a definition of an AST for any given language. It's that it's not necessarily obvious how to do so, so scoring by AST is not objectively possible for all languages.

VoteToClose

So, if I had 2 programs in 16 bytes, what would my safe/cracked score be?

Caridorc

@MartinBüttner yes, in languages like Python and LISP it is trivial but in others? I see your point

len(list(ast.walk(ast.parse(code))))

not many languages can do that

TimmyD

21:54

Heck, even in "normal" languages like PowerShell, the AST can get really weird really fast once the pipeline is introduced into the code.

VoteToClose

@VoteToClose I don't quite understand the scoring system.

Doorknob

So in Perl, would every access of a variable count as two "nodes" because of the $? Because print $a and print @a and print %a are all very different things.

Caridorc

@Doorknob an identifier is a single node. But i $ is like a type signature, then 2

TanMath

hello all! i am back!

feersum

How about a C macro?

Doorknob

21:57

It's not a type signature. But whenever you refer to a variable, you have to use a $ (if it's a scalar), @ (if it's an array), or % (if it's a hash) before its name.

feersum

There may be any number of AST nodes from the text it expands to.

Doorknob

For example, my $s = 'Hello, '; $s += 'World!'; say $s;

Caridorc

@feersum this is getting WAY out of hand

Doorknob

exactly

Caridorc

probably this scoring is only possible for languages with built-in ast writers that are, well, very few and allowing only very few languages is not good

TanMath

21:58

these days, my intro isn't soo cool....

lemme try again...

The TanMath is back!! Hello all!

Doorknob

@Caridorc The only reason code-golf is orders of magnitude more popular than atomic-code-golf is because it's very easy to see that there's an objective winning criterion that's easy to measure.

VoteToClose

Notice me Senpai!

Can anyone help me with this scoring? :D

Doorknob

For which challenge?

VoteToClose

8

Q: Find the Interweaved Source Codes (Cops)

This is the cops' thread. For the robbers' thread, go here. Introduction For this Cops/Robbers challenge, the cops will write output-producing programs and interweave them together. It is the robber's job to pick apart the cops' programs to produce the desired outputs. Cop rules The cops may ...

code-golf cops-and-robbers

TanMath

didn't work!

Doorknob

22:00

@VoteToClose heh, your avatars look similar so I thought you were confused about your own challenge :P

Caridorc

@Doorknob yeah... getting the AST of ten lines of JAVA, good luck with that

all but easy

counting bytes is a snap

VoteToClose

You can't empty reply to any message.

Doorknob

@VoteToClose

VoteToClose

o-o Zero spaces.

Doorknob

Anyway, what don't you understand about the scoring?

Caridorc

22:02

well, here dies the idea of AST-node code-golf, a nice talk about it nonetheless

Doorknob

@Caridorc It is an interesting idea. :)

Just... not practical, at least at the moment.

Caridorc

@Doorknob thanks :)

VoteToClose

I think I get the first number, but the number after the / makes no sense to me.

Doorknob

So, for example, if you have 5 programs used

then the first part of the score would be 256/(2⁵)

VoteToClose

Yeah. I got that.

:D

Doorknob

22:04

And if your interweaving has, say, 26 bytes

VoteToClose

256/(2^5)+256/32? <-- I'm an idiot

Doorknob

you would round that up to 32 (nearest power of 2)

and divide 256 by 32, I think

@VoteToClose yeah that's it I'm pretty sure

VoteToClose

Yeah. So, the second half?

\o/ I got half of it, yay!

Doorknob

hrm?

That's the whole thing.

you just add both components together

VoteToClose

There's also a cracked component.

(safe points)/(cracked points)

Doorknob

22:05

ah

VoteToClose

I just don't see that.

Doorknob

it's in the Robbers post right?

VoteToClose

Oh. :I It'd be nice for that to be in this post too.

So... this is right, right?

0

A: Find the Interweaved Source Codes (Cops)

Vitsy, 2 programs, 15 bytes; Score 80/12 (if safe/cracked) Interweaved Programs a'5oF'2\\aI/NZO Vitsy is so pretty, so clean. Look into its source, and be awed. Output, first program NaNo Output, second program ...

Doorknob

Yeah.

I think -_-

VoteToClose

\o/ I wanted to make a high ratio.

@AlexA. And the second, and the third, and the fourth...

TanMath

22:11

oh the errors in Seriously...

Blacklight Shining

Hmmm…has anyone made a regex golf challenge involving Unicode character names?

TanMath

hey @trichoplax

Doorknob

@BlacklightShining Oh hey, you're the one who helped me with my esolang Macaroni in #rust, yeah? :D

Blacklight Shining

Oh, hay, @Doorknob! :D

Yeah, I am, heh.

Doorknob

welcome to PPCG chat :)

Blacklight Shining

22:13

Thanks! ^.^

Doorknob

@BlacklightShining you mean something like this?

33

Q: Print the character names

Every Unicode character has a name, like "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A". A Unicode character name may contain only uppercase letters, white spaces, and the minus sign. Write a program that reads a text and outputs the names of each character on a new line. For example, if the input were "Hello, World!...

code-golf kolmogorov-complexity unicode

It's not regex golf though.

Blacklight Shining

…is regex golf even a thing here? [regex-golf] isn't a tag.

Doorknob

There's no tag specifically for regex golf, but there is regular-expression

I have seen several regex golf challenges here before

Blacklight Shining

@Doorknob Not…really! I was thinking more “Here're two sets of Unicode characters. Write a regular expression that matches all of the names of the characters in the first set, and none of the names of the characters in the second set.”

Doorknob

@MartinBüttner also likes to answer regular challenges with Retina :P

Hm. No, I don't think that exists yet.

Blacklight Shining

22:16

Inspired by someone posting one of those Unicode emoticons on IRC, followed by me looking up the characters' names. XP

Doorknob

Although most pure regex golf is simply solved with an existing program that golfs regexen(?) for you.

Blacklight Shining

I think I've seen a regex-golf question that actually uses that as a baseline!

The asker posted an answer generated with one of the golfing programs, and then challenged the site to do better.

VoteToClose

@MartinBüttner Ninja'd. ;D

Vɪʜᴀɴ

Yay, I cracked the Vitsy answer without knowing Vitsy!

Blacklight Shining

Aha! codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/47582

VoteToClose

22:22

WHAT?

That was fast.

@Vɪʜᴀɴ o-o Did you now?

phase

Fixed, since everyone complained. I'm not a Pokemon fan. — EMBLEM Mar 9 at 19:37

Blacklight Shining

I think I might do this. o.o Anyone have any ideas about what to use for the two lists?

@phase …what?

phase

@BlacklightShining It's a comment on that post of the creator saying he's not a Pokemon fan, yet he made a Pokemon challenge.

VoteToClose

> Use the source, Luke.

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@VoteToClose Eh, maybe not. I got it to output NaNo though

Blacklight Shining

22:25

@phase …okay? I'm missing the connection here.

phase

@Vɪʜᴀɴ nananananannanananananana batman

VoteToClose

@Vɪʜᴀɴ Fancy. :D Now, did you do it my way?

phase

@BlacklightShining just something I saw that was funny ;-;

Blacklight Shining

@phase Ahh

TanMath

Seriously, why are there so many errors in Seriously?!

Already spotted two

VoteToClose

22:26

Because seriously seriously is seriously serious?

phase

What is yall talking about?

VoteToClose

Seriously?

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@VoteToClose what does the a operator do? Can't find it in the docs

TanMath

@VoteToClose if Seriously were seriously serious, it seriously wouldn't have so many serious Seriously errors!

Blacklight Shining

@Doorknob I actually had more changes to your Macaroni language, but I lost them when it fell off the bottom of my project stack D:

VoteToClose

22:27

@Vɪʜᴀɴ a - push 10 to the stack.

TanMath

@VoteToClose beat you! 6 seriouses' (if that is even a word!)

Doorknob

Actually, it would be better to just not onebox things that are too big (Slack does this). A few days ago people were oneboxing tons of GIFs in PPCG chat and it absolutely killed my browser. :/ — Doorknob 59 secs ago

cough cough @phase

Caridorc

@phase About a (non-existent?) language which makes it Seriously easy to make puns on its name.

Doorknob

@BlacklightShining :( I used it to solve a couple of challenges here. :P

phase

@Doorknob naw that totally wasn't me

Doorknob

22:29

>.<

Blacklight Shining

@TanMath If Seriously were seriously serious, it seriously wouldn't have so many seriously serious Seriously errors! 1UP

TanMath

@Caridorc it is an actual language! made by @Mego

Blacklight Shining

@Doorknob Nice :3

phase

@Caridorc github.com/Mego/Seriously

TanMath

@BlacklightShining If Seriously was seriously a serious language, it seriously wouldn't have seeiously serious Seriously errors! Seriously?! 1UP!

flawr

22:32

You guys talkin' 'bout Serious Black?

Blacklight Shining

Touché, @TanMath.

Caridorc

@phase I am seriously surprised by its existence

VoteToClose

@Vɪʜᴀɴ I'm interested how you did the first program. beard stroke Don't post it here - is there a way to message in GitHub?

Blacklight Shining

@flawr His name is Sirius, not Serious. Seriously, some people…

VoteToClose

^

phase

22:33

@VoteToClose le gist.github.com

Doorknob

Bad puns, bad puns everywhere...

TanMath

@Caridorc you seriously serious? don't be seriously suprised by Seriously! seriously guys...

flawr

@BlacklightShining Siriusly?

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob Yeah, seriously bad...

Doorknob

@El'endiaStarman did you seriously just say that

El'endia Starman

22:34

I seriously did.

Whacha gonna do about it?

Blacklight Shining

@Doorknob They're puns about Sirius, though, so they're actually pretty bright.

11

Doorknob

hahaha

Caridorc

Jamais-vu, now it sound like seriously is not even a word

El'endia Starman

@BlacklightShining Oh, ha ha! You dog...

Blacklight Shining

@El'endiaStarman :3

TanMath

22:34

@BlacklightShining hahaha

I am seriously surprised people here siriusly know about astronomy!

Blacklight Shining

*takes a bow* Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all week~

Oh, no, I'm no good with astronomy. I just know about that one little star.

flawr

You've got 5 already.

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@VoteToClose I don't think github has any messaging system thing

Caridorc

It is late it is ser******* time for my TGTB now

Blacklight Shining

@flawr Heh! x3

phase

22:36

next most starred message

Blacklight Shining

@Vɪʜᴀɴ @VoteToClose Yeah, GitHub has no messaging system…I recommend just hanging around on a large IRC network. :3

VoteToClose

>.> Well then.

Blacklight Shining

(Also, I had a lot of trouble trying to tabcomplete @Vɪʜᴀɴ's name >.> )

flawr

Why?

TanMath

@phase what if a sock tries to star the most starred message and instead stars a message about star puns?! seriously thinking about it...

phase

22:37

@BlacklightShining don't tab, hit reply button

Blacklight Shining

Because the I isn't an I. :p

phase

@TanMath ok, I'm officially confused

flawr

@BlacklightShining What kind of shitty horse is this?

Blacklight Shining

@flawr Buck you, I'm a pegasus.

TanMath

@phase you are seriously confused? are you seriously serious?!

@BlacklightShining no you aren't

@flawr it is like one of those stupid "My Little Pony" horses.. therefore, it isn't a horse... it is a pony!

flawr

22:40

@BacklightShining

@TanMath What is the difference between a horse and a pony?

VoteToClose

Pony is specifically a horse of a small breed.

So, a pony is a horse, but a horse is not necessarily a pony.

TanMath

@flawr it is really short equine

El'endia Starman

And foals are young horses.

VoteToClose

^

^^^

TanMath

@El'endiaStarman so?

VoteToClose

22:42

Only Foals and Horses? ;D

flawr

Hoarse fouls.

VoteToClose

OH NO THAT'S A BRITISH SHOW.

El'endia Starman

That's fowl talk.

VoteToClose

sigh

Joke lost forever. Here's the wiki:

Only Fools and Horses

Only Fools and Horses is a British television sitcom created and written by John Sullivan. Seven series were originally broadcast on BBC One in the United Kingdom from 1981 to 1991, with nine sporadic Christmas specials until its end in 2003. Episodes are regularly repeated on UKTV comedy channel Gold and occasionally repeated on BBC One. Set in Peckham in south London, it stars David Jason as ambitious market trader Derek "Del Boy" Trotter, Nicholas Lyndhurst as his younger brother Rodney Trotter, and Lennard Pearce as their elderly Grandad. After Pearce's death in 1984, his character was replaced...

flawr

sikh

TanMath

22:43

from seriously errors to foals and fools!

El'endia Starman

Funnily enough, I did actually get the reference. I'm not sure why though, I must've seen the name once or something.

TanMath

@flawr you are sick? or are you a sikh?

El'endia Starman

No, he's Sikh.

flawr

Sikh and tired.

El'endia Starman

(Actually, I don't think he is. :P)

flawr

22:44

You think right.

El'endia Starman

@flawr Did you get run over?

phase

seeeee mai seeeeeekh

VoteToClose

@El'endiaStarman By a reindeer?

Over round at our house Christmas Eve?

You may say there's no such thing as Santa...

But as for me and Grandpa, we believe...

TanMath

@VoteToClose remember, no license for Santa!

VoteToClose

sigh Life fulfilled.

flawr

22:45

Half life complete.

VoteToClose

HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!

flawr

TanMath

whoa.. now we talk about Santa... this is the most off topic chat ever!

VoteToClose

See: The Nineteenth By... oh, wait.

TanMath

now let us change the topic once again...

VoteToClose

22:47

To Vitsy!

TanMath

what is the secret to getting your messages starred?

VoteToClose

Don't blink?

El'endia Starman

@TanMath Say something that people like and/or agree with.

^ See? :P

TanMath

I like this chat!

El'endia Starman

But you can't do it by asking for them.

Aaaand it's gone. :(

VoteToClose

22:49

@El'endiaStarman I disagree with the update to this post, unstarred.

El'endia Starman

@VoteToClose :(

But it's true!

TanMath

@El'endiaStarman i said something that people would like, no stars... doesn't work

El'endia Starman

@TanMath It's very hard to get stars on purpose. If it's clear that you're looking for stars.

...I don't think I've ever seen a twinkling star in this chat before. :P

TanMath

somebody is messing with the star!

El'endia Starman

I blame @VoteToClose.

TanMath

22:50

beautiful! the first twinkling stars!

VoteToClose

So shiny. So beautiful.

TanMath

@El'endiaStarman me too!

VoteToClose

(insert twinkle twinkle song here)

TanMath

i am bored...

waiting for somebody to say something (while saying something myself!)

VoteToClose

@Vɪʜᴀɴ c:

TanMath

22:53

(don't star this message! star this message)

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@VoteToClose wait what

VoteToClose

Okay. :D

> crap crap crap ?

-.- So much star. Stop it, @TanMath

TanMath

@VoteToClose not me

Vɪʜᴀɴ

@VoteToClose I posted it even though it didn't work

VoteToClose

I made that answer use mechanics that I didn't know about. xD

@TanMath I know it is, because every post was starred but yours. -.-

TanMath

22:56

@VoteToClose it isn't me!!!!!!!!!!! i promise you!

mods! @MartinBüttner can you help?

VoteToClose

-.- This is not something to bother the mods with. xD

TanMath

hey 1/4ata! hello grrsee!

@VoteToClose really? then you better believe me!

flawr

Have fun copying jokes.

TanMath

@flawr having fun...

i think I will blame @phase

wait, maybe it was @El'endiaStarman

duh... he is a Starman!

cracked the case!

wat u say? @VoteToClose

Transcript for