The Nineteenth Byte - 2015-06-06 (page 1 of 3)

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12:02 AM

It turns out that Minecraft changes quite a bit in a year or two.

12:23 AM

1

Q: How fast are golfing languages?

I have a preconception that golfing languages are not fast running. I have no idea if this is correct for some/all golfing languages. The reason I wonder is that if they are slower than other languages, then setting a time limit for a specific problem size on a code-golf question will mean golfi...

discussion code-golf asking-questions

1 hour later…

1:24 AM

@PhiNotPi If I started a PPCG MC server, would you be interested in joining? Been considering it.

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi it's been 4 months since I last played minecraft

Anonymous

Vanilla is boring to death. so I modded it with god knows how many mods from Feed The Beast

Is it somewhat ironic that the seed "Yggdrasil" spawned me on a treeless island?

@AlexA. I guess?

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi do you play modded?

Anonymous

There's this mod, Biomes 'o' Plenty that adds like a crapton of biomes

1:31 AM

No...

Anonymous

it makes worldgen really much better

I honestly don't know if I've "played" Minecraft really that much at all.

@PhiNotPi What else do you do with a video game?

Nf bs evtug abj, V nz hfvat n penpxrq irefvba bs Zvarpensg.  Vs lbh jbhyq fgvyy nyybj zr gb cynl ba gur freire, gurer vf n fvatyr yvar va gur pbasvt svyr gung zhfg or punatrq gb zngpu gur sbyybjvat:

bayvar-zbqr=snyfr

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

:/

Anonymous

@AlexA. write some mods

1:37 AM

Hmmm... words in ROT13 look kinda cool.

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi to me they look... statistically interesting haha

Anonymous

at the end of the day, rot13 is nothing more than the Caesars cyphers people still do in the boy scouts

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Multiplying with restricted operations: Best lower bound fastest-code Multiply with restricted operations is a challenge to multiply two variables using as few as possible of four allowed operations: addition, reciprocal, negation, and variable assignment. The current best is 22 operations. Y...

@AlexA. In conclusion, you may or may not allow me to play on your server.

Hmm, are you even here?

I think he's left us.

RIP Alex

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi it's such a burden that mojang is not on steam because of its hipster founder's whims

1:47 AM

Now it has ended up as a Microsoft product.

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi games for windows live 2.0

I've never heard of that.

2:15 AM

I think my python+slashes entry for the halting challenge will be ready soon

my variant of slashes uses 1s and 0s instead of / and \

:)

@PhiNotPi You say "in conclusion," but I don't see any logic to arrive at that conclusion. :P

@PhiNotPi I was eating dinner.

@Sparr Nice work!

@AlexA. It's in the ROT13 above. :)

Ohhhhh, okay. I see now. I'm not sure what that means.

What you mean by penpxrq, that is.

Not legitimately purchased?

Oh, gotcha.

Not enthused enough to legitimately purchase it? ~$27

Also, was the PPCG Wheel of Blame™ ever finalized?

2:33 AM

I don't think it was ever finalized because we couldn't get name scrambling to work well.

The newest fully functional version is this: jsfiddle.net/bj18dk9s/13

But CH and I were trying to get the API and scrambling to work, and it wouldn't.

Well the current version is awesome. :) You all did a really great job.

Showed it to my girlfriend. After a few spins: "That doesn't seem very random."

@PhiNotPi The problem with changing the config file is that I would set up a server host that isn't my local machine, so I don't think I could change the config if I wanted to.

Where is the config file?

I don't know, you're the one who said there was a config file. :P

Are you using the normal Minecraft server software?

From down the page here? minecraft.net/download

I'm not using anything, I've never done this before.

2:42 AM

I figured this out earlier today.

If I was to give a program a list of lists as input, what would be the most preferred format?

Basically, there is a minecraft_server.something.exe that, when run, creates a minecraft server.

And, in the same file that you run it from, it creates a couple of configuration files (.txt files with unnecessary file extensions), with all the settings, like world seed, etc.

Right. My girlfriend used to have a Minecraft server and she had it hosted elsewhere, like minecraftservers.net or something like that. She says that I would probably be able to change the config.

The actual file is called "server.properties"

And I would change something in the server properties?

Well, it sounds like if I were to set up a server, it wouldn't be too difficult to allow you to play if you don't buy a legitimate copy.

I don't know how much interest there is here on PPCG though. I know Calvin and orlp play MC, not sure who else.

2:50 AM

I'm going to have to figure out a way to get a copy of the game sometime, but I don't have a credit card or anything yet.

You're what, like 17-18? I think you're old enough to get one.

@BrainSteel Do you play Minecraft?

drat

I thought I was generating all the binary strings for /// by just incrementing an integer and converting it to binary

but I'm missing the strings with leading zeros

@AlexA. I played a lot of minecraft a few years ago :) I spent most of my time building calculators and such with redstone.

before I output the first 3-digit string, I need to output all the previous 1 and 2 digit strings padded to 3 digits with 0s

@BrainSteel Ah yes, of course the EE major would be a redstone prodigy. :P

2:53 AM

Haha, why do you think I got interested in EE? :3

O.O

The moment of realization

Redstone would be even more fun with current and voltage, right?

I was so fascinated by what logic gates could do, I was dying to know why they worked :P Now that I'm more familiar with it, the physics didn't disappoint!

Redstone kind of has voltage, since power goes down the further you go (or is that current?)

^ Poster child for the case in favor of video games as a learning tool

2:56 AM

I liked redstone because of all the cool contraptions, I mean even a simple XOR gate made for a really nice door you can open from either side

@Sp3000 Do you play Minecraft?

It's also directly related to my interest in programming.

Minecraft actually did a surprising amount of good for me.

Used to a lot, now just on and off (currently off)

Same here

Now that I've got real things to play with, I don't go back so much anymore.

2:57 AM

Thinking of setting up a PPCG Minecraft server, trying to gage the level of interest.

Any particular goal you have in mind, or just to mess about?

Goal?

Uh... fun?

I might show up and tinker around on it, but I don't know how much.

(removed)

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Date-A-List! code-golf graphs Introduction The year is 20XX. Lists of integers are now members of society with a full set of rights. Like humans, lists like to have dates and get married. In this challenge, we'll produce a program "Date-A-List!" that will get as many lists as possible on happy...

3:03 AM

My first introduction to logic circuits was by read through my parent's bookshelf.

I found a few gems like this thing: amazon.com/Digital-Design-Principles-And-Practices/dp/…

@PhiNotPi Do you have parents who are engineers?

My dad sits in a cubicle all day, working on software that controls the electrical grid. Does that count?

Yes

My dad sits in a cubicle all day designing airplane landing gears.

user image

I don't actually know much about my dad's job. I do know he has a pretty high level of clearance. One of the things he carries around is a device that is a PRNG that is synchronized to the company's servers, which is a second layer of password.

:O

Does he work for the Federal Government?

3:10 AM

woo! I've got a list of halting slashes programs

No, just near the headquarters of a multi-billion-dollar energy corporation.

Uh, wow. Alright.

with 1 being / and 0 being \, 101110 is the first program that exhibits a successful replacement, output, and halt.

101110 triggers a replacement of 1 with '', which turns the string into 00, which outpus 0 then halts

^ Thinks The Nineteenth Byte is for discussing matters of PPCG

/\///\ is the equivalent program in the normal slashes syntax

3:14 AM

After all, none of the letters "PPCG" appear in "The Nineteenth Byte."

@Sparr Nice work. I'm impressed with any attempt at all of using ///.

@AlexA. well, the halting challenge is special. I don't need to actually try to accomplish anything specific with my /// code, just interpret it and see if it halts

Phe PineCeenth Gyte.

@Sparr It's the interpretation part that's impressive. ;)

I've been stealth pinged!

Nope

3:18 AM

I kinda want to start stealth-pinging people in the MSE Tavern, but that'll probably be the #1 fastest way to get it removed.

Haha that's probably accurate

Although it's so tempting to try.

it's 600+ bytes

doesn't compare favorably with my subleq interpreter

stupid python and its mandatory indentation...

@Sparr Translate your code to Pyth. Problem solved.

yeah, that would shrink both of my solutions by about 75% I think

some would still have to be native python, though

Which you can do in Pyth

3:21 AM

I'm ethically opposed to pyth

far more so than the other golf languages

Hahaha

Why?

As far as I know, Pyth has not been at the heart of any major mass genocide. I see no real ethical issues.

As a casual time-traveler, I am all too aware of the Pyth Wars of 2017.

I must know my future fate. Is it Pyth vs. CJam for control of the multiverse?

The terror of the stealth ping rages on...

The phrase "rages on" plus our discussion of a battle makes me think of this song.

3:27 AM

Entire sectors of IPv6 were rendered completely uninhabitable.

@AlexA. codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/51273/…

I'm not actually practiced at all with python golfing

Oh my, someone linked Dimmu in PPCG chat!

What.

I own two of their albums.

Nice! Which two?

I haven't listened to Dimmu in forever, but that song is super nostalgic.

3:35 AM

I exited out of the video after fewer than five seconds...

Haha

In Sorte Diaboli and Stormblåst.

It's not exactly easy listening :P

I had Stormblåst and Death Cult Armageddon.

I like In Sorte Diaboli more, really :)

More than what?

3:38 AM

Well, we have severely opposing musical tastes.

Stormblåst.

@PhiNotPi What do you like?

@PhiNotPi My musical tastes are rather diverse. Metal doesn't make up a large portion of my library. I like Irish drinking songs, classical, rap, and a lot of alternative.

@BrainSteel In Sorte Diaboli came out right about the time I stopped listening to them so I haven't heard it.

Like, I listened to the Peer Gynt Suite a few days ago.

3:39 AM

I inherited the two albums from my older brother, and I haven't really heard more of them than that.

@PhiNotPi I like that stuff too. Also metal.

And lots of not metal

The Old Dun Cow is one of my favorite songs.

(not metal)

Irish drinking song?

:)

You aren't even old enough to drink! (Legally...)

3:41 AM

Even if I'm underage.

Pshhh...

I drink lots... of non-alcoholic beverages every day!

I drink hella water, bro. It's sick.

Gets me so hydrated.

That stuff hits me so hard.

Potion of Hydration

My girlfriend has on Beethoven's Symphony No. 7, 2nd Movement. This is the shit. Dude knows what's up.

@BrainSteel I assume you also like stuff like Flogging Molly and The Pogues? Assuming based on this song.

3:47 AM

I actually haven't heard of either of those. Give me a minute :)

When I think of quality Irish music, I of course think of this song.

Probably lesser known - Estancia by Alberto Ginastera - youtube.com/watch?v=JJPTA8ibzqQ

@PhiNotPi This is intense.

This is neither Irish nor drinking, but it's pretty folk-y and I love it.

@PhiNotPi This is intense!

I should probably catch some sleep.

3:58 AM

Catch it with a net

Goodnight.

Goodnight!

Keep me updated with whatever.

@BrainSteel I am not a fan

Gah! What?!

I suppose I'm not horribly offended.

4:02 AM

:)

Do like that Mary O'Hara song? Now that's good Irish folk.

It was very pleasant!

How about this?

I was expecting folky. I did not get folky. Aside from the initial confusion, not bad. Probably not something I'd listen to a lot, though.

I specifically sent that part of the song because it's just intentional noise.

There's actual music in that song, but like 80% of it is just guitar feedback.

It was intended to be an unpleasant follow up since you said that Mary O'Hara was pleasant.

Oh. I have, uh, odd taste.

4:13 AM

Well, I love that song.

My girlfriend recommended I send it because she hates it.

As far as noisyness goes, I particularly like this. It's pretty musical, but still rather noisy :)

Ah, well, not everyone can be as refined in the arts as we are...

:P

@BrainSteel Will listen later. Girlfriend has on Beethoven and doesn't want me to keep making her pause it to play these songs.

The page said it's dubstep?

Look at her with puppy dog eyes and say PLEAAAASSEEE???

That's pretty accurate.

You can tell her an anonymous figure on the internet told you to listen to it, and thus you must lest ye be thrown into oblivion. She'll believe you.

She approved the motion because she likes electronic music. Neither of us are much into dubstep though.

She really likes Subfocus. I like his album Torus.

(not dubsep but it's electronic)

She likes all sorts of beeps and boops

What have I been listening to lately... uh. This. And... this.

I have not heard of this person.

These things are lovely.

4:26 AM

Which things?

I am currently listening to your first This.

4:42 AM

Oh nice.

4:57 AM

If you go on to listen to more Rosetta, note that I only like their first two albums: The Galilean Satellites and Wake/Lift. Things started to go down hill IMO when the guy started singing.

I'm still trying to get through Martin's list of music, too, haha :) There's so much to listen to! What a wonderful world.

Such cheerfulness!

Today has been a remarkable day.

Oh yeah? How so?

I assume for reasons other than the development of the Wheel of Blame.

My projects are successful, my homework is done, my friends are happy, it's just been a good time.

4:59 AM

:D

That's wonderful!

What more can a man ask for, eh? (And the Wheel of Blame was the cherry on top)

My day has been pretty much the opposite of what you said.

What projects have you been working on that are going well? Anything interesting on Github?

Aww, I'm sorry to hear that :(

It's alright. It's how it goes sometimes.

Ah, no, nothing like that. Primarily, a group project for class that I've been working on with a couple of peeps. It's very refreshing to have a group that cares about the project and is willing to do a complete job :)

5:02 AM

Best possible group project situation, unfortunately also least common

In my experience

@Sparr Hey Sparr, I'm on mobile but I want to try and help golf your Python, so are you still around?

@Sp3000 Helping golfers in need. :)

Yeah... It was especially surprising since, well, this is an introductory programming course and few people have my background. So finding people who were just as happy to be doing it as I was... It's a delight.

It's using Matlab, right?

Yes sir.

5:05 AM

Pretty soon you'll be golfing in Matlab. ~~Pro~~ tip: You can shorten some things by using Octave rather than Matlab.

The itch is already there. I can feel it. It's going to happen.

I've only had one group project like that, unfortunately :( although in that one one of the guys went a little overboard instead?

Ah, yeah, one person doing too much work can be a bit of a drag.

We were all going "Jeremy, we don't have time to write triggers for everything in the database"

And Jeremy was all, "Well we need triggers so stfu."

5:08 AM

Darn Jeremy.

Always triggering everything.

He needs a lesson in firearm safety.

5:23 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies I've been toying with the idea of making a PPCG Minecraft server. So far the interest has been rather lukewarm. As our resident Minecraft legend, what do you think?

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. That sounds really cool. (Though I can't say I know much about Minecraft servers.)

Creative or survival?

Survival

Exit BrainSteel

@Calvin'sHobbies My girlfriend used to have her own server so getting it set up would be easy. At this point I'm just not sure whether it'd be worth the hosting cost if few people are going to use it.

Calvin's Hobbies

What are the hosting costs?

Olivia said hers was about $10/month.

Calvin's Hobbies

5:31 AM

That's not too bad. I'd be willing to chip in a bit (via paypal transfer or something) if it actually gets going.

How would you decide who is allowed on? Could there be a (fairly simple) challenge that people have to complete :D

I figured I would just white list users who pinged me with their MC username in chat, but a challenge could be fun.

Enter BrainSteel

Calvin's Hobbies

Seems like a neat form of "orientation" but just an idea

You could do a test run locally first. With only a few people it shouldn't lag too much if you have a decent computer.

@Sp3000 Test run of what?

Of people playing, before you decide whether hosting's worth it :)

Calvin's Hobbies

5:39 AM

@AlexA. You can run a server on your home pc I believe. (Just not as safe/fast/reliable as hosting it.)

Yeah, I know a guy who does that. My home PC is a laptop that isn't always on/charged/etc.

Calvin's Hobbies

Same here :/

So it seems like hosting would be a better option for me

I'd just need to figure out how to edit the config file so that Phi can play too.

Calvin's Hobbies

A cheap one month test would be cool to test the waters (found this)

@AlexA. Why couldn't he play?

He has an illegitimate copy of Minecraft.

5:44 AM

Just turn online mode off, should be fine :)

I don't understand what that means

Server == online, right?

online mode is where the server cross checks usernames against the official server

to prevent spoofing of usernames

In server.properties there's a line which is online-mode=true

Calvin's Hobbies

But will skins show up then?

Just set it to false

5:45 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies An important point. I need my Gordon Freeman skin.

@Katya You play Minecraft too, I take it? Would you be interested in joining a PPCG server if I were to set one up?

Hmm not sure about the skins, haven't really tested

Gordon Freechman was studying in his was studying laboratoried.

@Alexa Probably. I would have to wait for my new laptop to arrive first though

Nice, what kind of laptop?

thinkpad

you know the one that I've said I'm going to run the samurai koth on in the spec?

it hasn't actually arrived yet, which is why I haven't started that koth

5:50 AM

Oh gotcha

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. I'm very interested, so do tell me if you get it going

@Calvin'sHobbies Of course!

I'm still just trying to gage the overall level of interest

Calvin's Hobbies

You could ask on meta?

That would probably be out of the scope of meta as defined in the help center

Maybe a chat star poll

?

6:09 AM

Looks like arqade meta considered a stack exchange minecraft server to be on topic there

34

Q: Insert Coin, Feed Beast: mine.stackgaming.com

This is a formal notification of our commmunity FTB (Ultimate) Minecraft server. It is a whitelisted server, so if you want access ping @fredley or @RonanForman in chat. If you can't for some reason, leave a comment here instead. The server is at mine.stackgaming.com, and all you need to play ...

discussion community minecraft

@Katya Well that's Arqade. That's pretty much what they're about. :P

Calvin's Hobbies

Heck, I'm inclined to try setting up a server for $5 for a month right now (Looking at bisecthosting.com/selector.php)

(Though I'm not sure I want to be stuck managing/paying for it after that..)

:P

Calvin's Hobbies

I am serious (would it be stealing your thunder if I did this tomorrow? and would anyone play?)

Thunder: nah, Play: sure!

6:32 AM

Thinking about it, there's one way you could post the PPCG server on the main site

pastebin.com/LJbD1j3u

;)

Calvin's Hobbies

@Katya I was thinking along the same lines ;)

(Though on second though I'd vote to keep it low key for a time so there's no influx of strangers/griefers)

I agree with your second thought

I'd recommend whitelisting

It would be funny if all of the details of the server was contained within various programming challenges

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. Definitely, but having a bunch of requests still sounds annoying

6:41 AM

and each challenge contained hidden links to the others (so that they showed up on the linked thing on the side)

although that's not a particularly practical idea

@Calvin'sHobbies True, but it'd be pretty easy to keep track of if you do it like the Arqade folks and say that whitelist requests should be through chat ping

Calvin's Hobbies

6:56 AM

I got a PPCG minecraft server going! IP: 167.114.158.78:25932 (ping me with Minecraft username to be whitelisted)

@Calvin'sHobbies ararslan

Calvin's Hobbies

(12 players max, 1 day backups, server in Montreal, Vanilla 1.8.7, 1024MB limit, ends on 6th July at earliest)

@AlexA. I think you're added

Cool, will test

Calvin's Hobbies

I'm on as HelkaHomba

@Sp3000 @Katya @BrainSteel @PhiNotPi Come join us

@Optimizer Play minecraft? Want to join me and alex on the new PPCG server?

@AlexA. I'll be on tomorrow for sure

7:17 AM

:D

@isaacg Play Minecraft? See above

@AlexA. I don't have minecraft.

Then disregard. :)

Calvin's Hobbies

Tonight I'll quit when i find diamonds or in an hour, whatever happens first

7:31 AM

Hey, wait a minute:

May 11 at 19:41, by Doorknob

But yeah, Nethack is the only game. All other games are just reskinned versions of Nethack.

can't play 'til my laptop arrives

sorry :/

@Calvin'sHobbies never ever played it..

8:09 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies Sp3000. Currently out to dinner, will hop on when back

8:54 AM

@Dennis I've got a 60 bytes spell checker, but it takes up memory as hell.

9:07 AM

ok, a few more bytes and its not that memory heavy

Calvin's Hobbies

9:23 AM

@Sp3000 You should be added. I'm off for now though. You can use the stuff in the house

Thanks, will take a peek. Almost home.

2 hours later…

Martin Büttner

11:07 AM

Yeah, we've unlocked a new tag badge

@Sparr I'm sure you've figured it out by now, but you could just strip off the leading 1 (that also gives you the empty program).

11:26 AM

@MartinBüttner you got ? which one ?

11:41 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies "PhiNotPi" boring I know

4 hours and its still trying to find a correct spelling for recognizid

recognized?

or what is it?

the code doesn't know that.

compact spelling checker

Okay

have fun getting that to work

it works. Just that permutations of a 11 character word are just too high

(11!)

Martin Büttner

11:50 AM

@Optimizer tips

Martin Büttner

12:49 PM

ah, finally got my submission for halting programs ready

@Optimizer Efficiency is for Stack Overflow!

@Dennis i know. but even this has yet to return a result now .. 5 hours and counting ..

The fact is that upon his recognized danger in I
I recognizid dnger en

The fact is that upon his recognized danger in I
I dnger en

returns instantly

oh wait. It did show the complete answer when I Ctrl C'd the java program .. :|

I guess it was in an infinite loop (r doesn't become null in java version ? )

It should.

weird.

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