The Nineteenth Byte

Sparr

00:00

I think the right terms will depend on someone actually writing out a reasonable description of the difference in the two types of sites.

having sites active and useful 4 years in still labeled Beta is the sort of shit Google gets made fun of for...

New Main Posts

0

Q: Sorting for Bozos

Introduction This challenge is about three (bad) sorting algorithms: Bogosort, and two others variants that I came up with (but have probably been thought of by others at some point in time): Bogoswap (AKA Bozosort) and Bogosmart. Bogosort works by completely shuffling the array randomly and c...

Calvin's Hobbies

@PhiNotPi No. Core implies that site is more integral to SE than non-core sites. A term for graduated should be about how established a site is

PhiNotPi

Well, I don't really like the term "established" either because it's not like PPCG and friends aren't established.

Calvin's Hobbies

I know. I say they should graduate all "established" sites, whether or not that means giving them new graphics

Sparr

shows up more than 1x1 cell on stackexchange.com/sites <-- this label probably has some concrete meaning

Sp3000

00:13

@Sparr I was thinking of adding output templates to mine so that I wouldn't be restricted by the output format, but I'm still working out the details. I guess it would be possible to just call the interpreter via Python, but somehow I didn't find that as nice (although it would be easier).

Sparr

@Sp3000 what are you replying to?

Sp3000

4 hours ago, by Sparr

And modifying the languages to support replacement would be too late for this challenge :(

Are you on mobile?

Calvin's Hobbies

@Sparr ? All the icons look the same size to me

Sparr

I am not on mobile. Why do you ask?

@Calvin'sHobbies interesting... dropbox.com/s/zycruauzrq4rouq/…

Sp3000

If you're on desktop there should be an arrow to the left of the message which you can click on to see what I'm replying to

Sparr

00:18

@Sp3000 adding output templates starts to get a lot more programming-language-y. I figured that just search and replace would still be really close to the regex concept roots of the challenge

oh, that's neat. I never noticed that before. How does it know?

Sp3000

If you hit the left down arrow you can select "reply to this message"

Sparr

ahh. I see some of the roots of discourse there :)

Sp3000

My problem with search and replace is ... how do you deal with overlaps and such?

Calvin's Hobbies

@Sparr Or mouseover a message and click the arrow icon on the far right

Sparr

same way regex deals with them. which is to say, not well :p

the simplest concept is that you just replace a whole match with some other string, possibly including capture groups. but doing that in 2d is tricky, with missing or extra cells in the grid.

none of the existing solutions do capture groups, but they should be a trivial extension of most of the solutions

(to spec, not necessarily to code)

Sp3000

00:21

Er... I think most of them have capture groups actually, don't they?

Sparr

not that I noticed, although I admit I've looked more at snakex than at the others

Calvin's Hobbies

@Sparr Ah alright, I was looking at the list version. But I always figured that had something do do with site size/activity, not beta status

Sparr

and I may have only looked at about half the entries with any amount of attention

@Calvin'sHobbies it surely does, and that's a lot more useful metric to me than the apparently entirely subjective graduated/notgraduated distinction

Sp3000

Ahaha with all the escaping going on, funnily enough matching alone is longer than CJam

Sparr

I'd probably do a single search and replace first to get rid of all the escaping

s/\./d/g

etc

then all the real match attempts can just use the non-escaped characters

Martin Büttner

00:42

@PhiNotPi so... mods can migrate anywhere although migration from graduated to beta is apparently discouraged. however, beta sites don't get auto-migration close vote reasons.

PhiNotPi

okay

thanks

What challenge should I work on writing next?

Maybe "output every halting program"? meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/5355/2867

Sparr

I'd at least give that one a try

although I'd probably give up as soon as I see the 20 character cjam+brainfuck solution

bf and other trivial-interpreter esolangs are the only ones I expect to have much luc with writing a parallel interpreter for.

Martin Büttner

01:05

/// seems like a good candidate

PhiNotPi

I'm going to work on the spec right now.

Martin Büttner

@PhiNotPi what about Turing complete systems like tag systems? Is that allowed?

PhiNotPi

I don't know.

Sparr

@MartinBüttner is /// a language?

TheNumberOne

@PhiNotPi I think that might be easy in java.

Martin Büttner

01:12

Yes. It's just repeated string substitution but Turing complete.

Sparr

halting problem idea: you don't have to execute just one step of a program. you could execute until the same line of code is executed (for non-self-modifying languages)

I have no idea if that's a useful approach

Thomas Ross

@Sparr Seemingly

Martin Büttner

@PhiNotPi you also need to sort out what to do about I/O. Should we only print programs that halt without taking input? What about output?

PhiNotPi

@MartinBüttner I was literally just thinking the same thing.

(should I unedit that?)

Martin Büttner

this gets even weirder with "normal" languages if valid programs include imports, and then file system interaction, and then web requests, and ... D:

Sparr

01:19

how about you only require producing every program in a turing-complete subset of your language of choice?

PhiNotPi

Seems good.

TheNumberOne

Would producing java bytecode be OK ?

Sparr

java bytecode is definitely a language...

I think the core of golfing this challenge is going to be seeing how small the parallel interpreter/simulator can get.

Thomas Ross

@Sparr Hey look, there was even a code golf to golf an interpreter: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/37014/6691

Sparr

neat, but other more straightforward languages have much simpler interpreters, I think

61

Q: Interpret Brainfuck

Write the shortest program in your favourite language to interpret a Brainfuck program. The program is read from a file. Input and output are standard input and standard output. Cell size: 8bit unsigned. Overflow is undefined. Array size: 30000 bytes (not circled) Bad commands are not part of t...

code-golf interpreter brainfuck

30

Q: Creating the shortest Turing-complete interpreter

I've just tried to create the smallest possible language interpreter. Would you like to join and try? Rules of the game: You should specify a programming language you're interpreting. If it's a language you invented, it should come with a list of commands in the comments. Your code should star...

computer-science code-golf turing-complete

that last one seems ripe for re-posting to PPCG if it turns out to not be a strict subset of @PhiNotPi's halting challenge

too bad the site for this idea has died: lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2458

TheNumberOne

01:35

@PhiNotPi If a program throws an error, should it count, or not count, as halting?

PhiNotPi

I think I might have a sandbox proposal like that floating around.

@TheNumberOne I will say a somewhat arbitrary "no."

Alex A.

01:47

You guys. I posted DogeScript in Spanish. It took my two days and the result is not that interesting.

Sp3000

I was going to LOLCODE in Japanese, but then I realised I don't know LOLCODE very well D:

TheNumberOne

@PhiNotPi Early solution in java, not golfed: pastebin.com/jv16xaEA

Alex A.

I was going to do LOLCODE in Spanish (El Código de Jaja) but it doesn't have any decent way to do string replacement.

Sp3000

Grass in English would have been good. loLOLOlololol

Alex A.

Haha

Development of LOLCODE seems to have been all but abandoned, which is unfortunate. Arrays (BUKKITs) were never implemented, there are no string manipulation capabilities, etc.

The guy who created LOLCODE moved onto the next big meme and created DogeScript.

PhiNotPi

01:58

Current spec: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/5355/2867

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi I like it. I'll go in and upvote the challenge and the quality submissions but I doubt I'd participate.

PhiNotPi

Any other feedback on the spec? I think it might be a final draft.

TheNumberOne

"A program is disqualified if it ever outputs itself."

PhiNotPi

I suppose that's true.

Alex A.

02:13

No feedback other than "NICE WORK DOOD."

TheNumberOne

If one of the simulated programs outputs something, should that output be visible in any way?

PhiNotPi

I was figuring the output should just be trashed.

Or else, there will be programs in an infinite loop outputting stuff.

Is this actually going to be an easy challenge in Java?

TheNumberOne

I already have all the requirements fulfilled.

It only generate bytecode, not source code.

PhiNotPi

That's impressively short, then.

TheNumberOne

Of coarse, due to the nuances of java bytecode, it will take a long time before it even generates a valid class file.

PhiNotPi

02:21

What happens when you try to .invoke() a class that is an infinite loop?

TheNumberOne

It doesn't terminate?

PhiNotPi

So it can handle an ever-growing number of threads?

TheNumberOne

The main worry would be a memory leak caused by one of the threads.

PhiNotPi

Any clue how long it will take for it to start outputting stuff?

TheNumberOne

No...

PhiNotPi

02:28

I'm probably going to ask for some feedback on whether or not it is fair to allow eval-like stuff.

TheNumberOne

It would take 3199925962 iterations of the main loop before it would even create any byte code with the required magic number at the beginning. It would take much longer before the generated code has a main method.

Calvin's Hobbies

Does anyone know why RoboCritters is saying this is linked? The 2d regex question is not mentioned at all..

In the page source 47311 only occurs twice where the linked list is

It's weird

PhiNotPi

Investigation time.

PhiNotPi the Private Eye.

Alex A.

PhiNotEye

Calvin's Hobbies

Unless they picked up on the fact that Sparr mentioned it in relation to 2D Pattern matching

But that would be crazy

PhiNotPi

02:43

I thought of that, but there's no way.

NSA?

TheNumberOne

@Calvin'sHobbies Link dump

Calvin's Hobbies

@TheNumberOne But the 2d regex qid is clearly only there twice (one for the "Linked" text and one for the mini vote count)

PhiNotPi

Where did line 98 come from? (probably the sidebar itself...)

Calvin's Hobbies

And I'm almost certain it's not in any revision history

TheNumberOne

It's only in the source code twice also...

Calvin's Hobbies

02:49

I know :P

PhiNotPi

Maybe we can test out that obscure chat idea?

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/36645/… codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/51231/…

99% certain nothing will come of that.

Calvin's Hobbies

Wait, I think this might be it: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/47311/…

That is, if links like that go both ways

PhiNotPi

The links do go both ways.

TheNumberOne

I didn't know that...

Calvin's Hobbies

Me neither

PhiNotPi

02:53

See here on the right: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/linked/47311?lq=1

Calvin's Hobbies

Lets try something - codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/51231/…

PhiNotPi

> 10 questions linked to/from Language Design: 2-D Pattern Matching

Calvin's Hobbies

Yep, rearranging words says robocritters is linked!

PhiNotPi

Your experiment worked.

Can it be undone?

Calvin's Hobbies

Deleted comment, let's see

PhiNotPi

02:55

Yep.

Calvin's Hobbies

I still see the link

On rearrange but not robo

PhiNotPi

It fixed one half of it.

Calvin's Hobbies

Might just need to wait

PhiNotPi

It could be a whole week before it fixes itself, or never at all.

Calvin's Hobbies

So "Linked" should read "Linked To or From" or something

@PhiNotPi Or until @randomra has the same question :P

Sp3000

02:59

XD wow

Calvin's Hobbies

We could pepper SE with invisible links. Think of the power we can wield.

3

PhiNotPi

Please yes.

Do the links work cross-site?

Doorknob

What [about](@PhiNotPi) invisible pings?

wait dangit

I thought that worked...

PhiNotPi

That doesn't work.

Doorknob

This is a test ping.

Did that work?

PhiNotPi

03:03

Maybe this?

No

Doorknob

It seems to have worked from my end (when I hover over it, your message is highlighted in grey).

Calvin's Hobbies

@PhiNotPi I'm checking - meta.stackexchange.com/questions/257652/…

TheNumberOne

[@PhiNotPi](Not ping.)

PhiNotPi

We should link a whole ton of pages across SE to our sandbox or something.

No ping 4 me.

d

Alex A.

PhiNotPing

Doorknob

03:04

Another test ping.

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies lol

PhiNotPi

nope

Alex A.

@Doorknob

TheNumberOne

Can we ping ourselves @TheNumberOne

Calvin's Hobbies

Doesn't seem to work

TheNumberOne

03:05

nope

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi

PhiNotPi

That worked.

Alex A.

I have a coworker named Pingping. Perhaps she could be of assistance here.

PhiNotPi

@Al

@Calvin'sHobbies Amazing choice of link placement.

TheNumberOne

@Doorknob Was that supposed to ping Calvin's Hobbies ?

Doorknob

03:06

@TheNumberOne It was.

Calvin's Hobbies

@MartinBüttner I said don't mind me

Alex A.

Hahaha

Martin Büttner

Uhhhhh?

Alex A.

Don't worry about it. B)

Calvin's Hobbies

lol

PhiNotPi

03:07

Did it not work?

Doorknob

@Doorknob You can ping yourself in the future, though.

Like this.

Alex A.

Does it make the noise?

Beep boop

Doorknob

It does.

Alex A.

I can't do that thing you did where you linked to your own post.

I've jealous, I like the ping noise.

Calvin's Hobbies

@MartinBüttner We discovered that the list of "Linked" posts next to a question includes things that have linked to the question

Maybe that was common knowledge though

PhiNotPi

03:09

So no cross-site linkage?

Martin Büttner

@Calvin'sHobbies I discovered the same thing earlier today when linking up random ASCII art of the day.

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Yeah, I knew that from SO.

Calvin's Hobbies

@PhiNotPi No (that's what I meant by "doesn't seem to work" above, I wasn't responding to One)

PhiNotPi

@MartinBüttner And we were attempting to use that information for personal gain.

@Calvin'sHobbies :(

Calvin's Hobbies

@MartinBüttner The link I made on Rearranging Words is still there, like a ghost

PhiNotPi

03:12

I think it's gone now.

Calvin's Hobbies

Wait, nevermind, it's gone

PhiNotPi

Well that was lame.

Alex A.

Gone but not forgotten.

PhiNotPi

RIP link

Alex A.

2015-2015

PhiNotPi

03:14

I guess Zelda is on her own from here on out.

Alex A.

She has the horse

Epoxy or whatever

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. ahem, Epona was Malon's

Alex A.

Well she has the Gandalf or something, that large, orange fellow.

Calvin's Hobbies

(Glue is made from hooves so maybe epoxy is apt...)

PhiNotPi

Did you know that gelatin is a type of animal glue?

Alex A.

03:16

Haha

You can glue animals together with gelatin?

Hold on, let me get my neighbor's pets for an experiment

PhiNotPi

Sure, if you try hard enough.

Alex A.

I'm pretty determined.

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. Yes, and they tried to toss the triforce in the fires of R'hllor

Alex A.

Gandalf was the one in A Land Before Time, right?

With the flute

You're a dude in a kilt with a flute, you get big at some point

PhiNotPi

Gandalf is not to be confused with Ganondorf, one of the main protagonists in the Harry Potter series.

Alex A.

03:21

Oh yeah, the wizard or whatever

Wait, isn't Canondwarf the Gibli? Bearded little person?

PhiNotPi

Sorry, I don't know much about the Twilight series.

Alex A.

I hear it's full of rather toothy fellows.

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. Now I can only think of Totoro

Alex A.

Your neighbor?

Calvin's Hobbies

No, he moved last month

He got spirited away on a moving castle

There should be a language (like shakespeare?) all about fantasy references

Alex A.

03:26

@Calvin'sHobbies I thought he ran some kind of Kikoman delivery service. You know, delivering soy sauce or whatever.

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. Ok, I'm done

Alex A.

Sigh.

PhiNotPi

That was a good run.

Alex A.

I tried to mangle as many references as possible. I think I did pretty well.

Calvin's Hobbies

03:38

Write a sentence using only fantasy-based words, every substantial word must be from a different universe.

"Hermione the turnip spirit had a lightsaber that she used to kill white walkers and oliphaunts during the hunger games on death mountain."

3

(I guess I'm not done :P)

Sp3000

Oh, good. I thought you were going to leave me on the cliff by the sea waiting for more

PhiNotPi

Good night!

TheNumberOne

@Calvin'sHobbies You forgot The White Whale.

Calvin's Hobbies

I forgot a lot of things

Sp3000

You mean the one with a pocket watch?

Alex A.

03:42

Or the extentable robotic limbs?

TheNumberOne

The dragon?

Alex A.

Dennis

@Sparr Sure hope you think so. If not, I'm still losing in your character counts challenge.

Calvin's Hobbies

@Dennis I don't get the references

Dennis

The reply thingie should take you to Sparr asking is /// a language?, which I have used in one of his questions.

Sp3000

03:46

I think he means the Count Character from Frankenstein Street

Optimizer

06:02

@Sp3000 Where its not the votes that count, but the Count that votes ?

New Main Posts

06:49

2

Q: Heightmap of Boxes

Have a look at this ascii art diagram of various boxes: +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | +-------------------------------+ +-------+ | | | | ...

code-golf ascii-art

Optimizer

@Katya can we assume that any two boxes' vertical lines will always have a space column between them ?

Katya

@Optimizer No, they can be close together. Look at the second input

@Optimizer Never mind, something weird happened when I copy pasted the inputs into the question

it padded it with spaces or something, wasn't supposed to look like that

I'll just add another test case for the "close together" vertical lines

New Main Posts

0

Q: Output your username without using any of the characters in your username!

This is a little meta... I need you to golf some code that takes no input whatsoever but outputs your username. That may seem easy enough, but you are code restricted. For example, if my username was JimmyOlson172 my code for generating JimmyOlson172 cannot contain characters (numbers, upper cas...

code-golf restricted-source metagolf

Stewie Griffin

07:14

Hi, I don't know if this is the place, but I wanted to ask a quick question before I propose a question in the sandbox. Will it be well received if the question requires making pie chart and bar plots (assuming I manage to make the question entertaining/fun)? I guess many frequently used golfing languages doesn't support this. I'm thinking of doing a simplified twist of the classic xkcd-strip: xkcd.com/688

randomra

@StewieGriffin hi, something similar was already done:

51

Q: xkcd challenge: "Percentage of the screen that is [x] color"

So I think we've all probably seen this xkcd comic: : This might either be too general or too difficult, I'm not sure. But the challenge is to create a program in any language that creates a window that has at least 2 colors and displays in English words what percentage of the screen is each co...

popularity-contest graphical-output

generally simple graphic output can be fine but if the question can be done with ascii output, that is preferred

you can check the questions with graphical-output tag to see examples

link: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/graphical-output

Stewie Griffin

07:37

@randomra. Well, it was well received at least =) Didn't find that one before I asked here.

Optimizer

I think Peter was just to mean to dupe hammer this question:

-2

Q: Output your username without using any of the characters in your username!

This is a little meta... I need you to golf some code that takes no input whatsoever but outputs your username. That may seem easy enough, but you are code restricted. For example, if my username was JimmyOlson172 my code for generating JimmyOlson172 cannot contain characters (numbers, upper cas...

code-golf restricted-source metagolf

It definitely is not a novel idea, but its questionable to call it a dupe. We should have let the community decide.

Katenkyo

Personnaly, I don't see it as a dupe.

xnor

honestly, i think closing it as a dupe was a mercy

Optimizer

its reopened again.

Katenkyo

It sure is bad designed, and help a little bit to much languages that don't use characters, but it isn't a dupe

Optimizer

07:39

@xnor personal opinions are invited. But just not a dupe hammer

xnor

anyone know a language where the empty string produces non-trivial output?

Katenkyo

And as said in the comment, It would be easier to do it with the nick "abba" than with the nick "[POST]Partenaire"

Optimizer

I am totally up for closing it again, given community agrees. currently it got reopened in such a short time, relaying that community does not completely agree

(I personally won't VTC as dupe though)

Katenkyo

I can't actually downvote, so won't be able to help you ^^'

xnor

in my defense, I warned the OP about exactly this 20 minutes ago

Optimizer

07:45

and still troll about it ?

that's no defense

randomra

@xnor maybe if the spec doesn't specify that errors go to stderr

xnor

unfortunately, given the convention that stderr output doesn't count as default, i don't think it would work

too bad Pyth's G that prints the alphabet is a letter

@Optimizer it's silly, but what would you do with new accounts?

randomra

that's why I said, that error should go to stdout, not stderr

xnor

first-time posters sometimes post on these things

would they have to assert they didn't create a name that gives an advantage?

randomra

now we have 1 month of False==xnor

xnor

07:49

is it really a month?

that i didn't know

randomra

yeah, or not if a mod thinks otherwise

they can change it back if you really want

xnor

looks like not, i changed it back

oh, it doesn't stick on posts

that's awkward

comment responses still save though

randomra

maybe there is a short period when you can change it back

xnor

ah, makes sense

that for warning me then

so i don't have to wrangle a mod

randomra

DigitalTrauma couldn't change it back after the 1st of April joke name

xnor

07:52

note to self: reserve all useful names now in advance of possible contests

@randomra Oh, was that really a month of MariaTidalTug?

randomra

yeah

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