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12:00 AM
I think the right terms will depend on someone actually writing out a reasonable description of the difference in the two types of sites.
having sites active and useful 4 years in still labeled Beta is the sort of shit Google gets made fun of for...
Q: Sorting for Bozos

Faraz MasroorIntroduction This challenge is about three (bad) sorting algorithms: Bogosort, and two others variants that I came up with (but have probably been thought of by others at some point in time): Bogoswap (AKA Bozosort) and Bogosmart. Bogosort works by completely shuffling the array randomly and c...

@PhiNotPi No. Core implies that site is more integral to SE than non-core sites. A term for graduated should be about how established a site is
Well, I don't really like the term "established" either because it's not like PPCG and friends aren't established.
I know. I say they should graduate all "established" sites, whether or not that means giving them new graphics
shows up more than 1x1 cell on stackexchange.com/sites <-- this label probably has some concrete meaning
12:13 AM
@Sparr I was thinking of adding output templates to mine so that I wouldn't be restricted by the output format, but I'm still working out the details. I guess it would be possible to just call the interpreter via Python, but somehow I didn't find that as nice (although it would be easier).
@Sp3000 what are you replying to?
4 hours ago, by Sparr
And modifying the languages to support replacement would be too late for this challenge :(
Are you on mobile?
@Sparr ? All the icons look the same size to me
I am not on mobile. Why do you ask?
@Calvin'sHobbies interesting... dropbox.com/s/zycruauzrq4rouq/…
If you're on desktop there should be an arrow to the left of the message which you can click on to see what I'm replying to
12:18 AM
@Sp3000 adding output templates starts to get a lot more programming-language-y. I figured that just search and replace would still be really close to the regex concept roots of the challenge
oh, that's neat. I never noticed that before. How does it know?
If you hit the left down arrow you can select "reply to this message"
ahh. I see some of the roots of discourse there :)
My problem with search and replace is ... how do you deal with overlaps and such?
@Sparr Or mouseover a message and click the arrow icon on the far right
same way regex deals with them. which is to say, not well :p
the simplest concept is that you just replace a whole match with some other string, possibly including capture groups. but doing that in 2d is tricky, with missing or extra cells in the grid.
none of the existing solutions do capture groups, but they should be a trivial extension of most of the solutions
(to spec, not necessarily to code)
12:21 AM
Er... I think most of them have capture groups actually, don't they?
not that I noticed, although I admit I've looked more at snakex than at the others
@Sparr Ah alright, I was looking at the list version. But I always figured that had something do do with site size/activity, not beta status
and I may have only looked at about half the entries with any amount of attention
@Calvin'sHobbies it surely does, and that's a lot more useful metric to me than the apparently entirely subjective graduated/notgraduated distinction
Ahaha with all the escaping going on, funnily enough matching alone is longer than CJam
I'd probably do a single search and replace first to get rid of all the escaping
then all the real match attempts can just use the non-escaped characters
12:42 AM
@PhiNotPi so... mods can migrate anywhere although migration from graduated to beta is apparently discouraged. however, beta sites don't get auto-migration close vote reasons.
What challenge should I work on writing next?
Maybe "output every halting program"? meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/5355/2867
I'd at least give that one a try
although I'd probably give up as soon as I see the 20 character cjam+brainfuck solution
bf and other trivial-interpreter esolangs are the only ones I expect to have much luc with writing a parallel interpreter for.
1:05 AM
/// seems like a good candidate
I'm going to work on the spec right now.
@PhiNotPi what about Turing complete systems like tag systems? Is that allowed?
I don't know.
@MartinBüttner is /// a language?
@PhiNotPi I think that might be easy in java.
1:12 AM
Yes. It's just repeated string substitution but Turing complete.
halting problem idea: you don't have to execute just one step of a program. you could execute until the same line of code is executed (for non-self-modifying languages)
I have no idea if that's a useful approach
@PhiNotPi you also need to sort out what to do about I/O. Should we only print programs that halt without taking input? What about output?
@MartinBüttner I was literally just thinking the same thing.
(should I unedit that?)
this gets even weirder with "normal" languages if valid programs include imports, and then file system interaction, and then web requests, and ... D:
1:19 AM
how about you only require producing every program in a turing-complete subset of your language of choice?
Seems good.
Would producing java bytecode be OK ?
java bytecode is definitely a language...
I think the core of golfing this challenge is going to be seeing how small the parallel interpreter/simulator can get.
@Sparr Hey look, there was even a code golf to golf an interpreter: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/37014/6691
neat, but other more straightforward languages have much simpler interpreters, I think
Q: Interpret Brainfuck

AlexandruWrite the shortest program in your favourite language to interpret a Brainfuck program. The program is read from a file. Input and output are standard input and standard output. Cell size: 8bit unsigned. Overflow is undefined. Array size: 30000 bytes (not circled) Bad commands are not part of t...

Q: Creating the shortest Turing-complete interpreter

ilya n.I've just tried to create the smallest possible language interpreter. Would you like to join and try? Rules of the game: You should specify a programming language you're interpreting. If it's a language you invented, it should come with a list of commands in the comments. Your code should star...

that last one seems ripe for re-posting to PPCG if it turns out to not be a strict subset of @PhiNotPi's halting challenge
too bad the site for this idea has died: lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2458
1:35 AM
@PhiNotPi If a program throws an error, should it count, or not count, as halting?
I think I might have a sandbox proposal like that floating around.
@TheNumberOne I will say a somewhat arbitrary "no."
1:47 AM
You guys. I posted DogeScript in Spanish. It took my two days and the result is not that interesting.
I was going to LOLCODE in Japanese, but then I realised I don't know LOLCODE very well D:
@PhiNotPi Early solution in java, not golfed: pastebin.com/jv16xaEA
I was going to do LOLCODE in Spanish (El Código de Jaja) but it doesn't have any decent way to do string replacement.
Grass in English would have been good. loLOLOlololol
Development of LOLCODE seems to have been all but abandoned, which is unfortunate. Arrays (BUKKITs) were never implemented, there are no string manipulation capabilities, etc.
The guy who created LOLCODE moved onto the next big meme and created DogeScript.
@PhiNotPi I like it. I'll go in and upvote the challenge and the quality submissions but I doubt I'd participate.
Any other feedback on the spec? I think it might be a final draft.
"A program is disqualified if it ever outputs itself."
I suppose that's true.
2:13 AM
No feedback other than "NICE WORK DOOD."
If one of the simulated programs outputs something, should that output be visible in any way?
I was figuring the output should just be trashed.
Or else, there will be programs in an infinite loop outputting stuff.
Is this actually going to be an easy challenge in Java?
I already have all the requirements fulfilled.
It only generate bytecode, not source code.
That's impressively short, then.
Of coarse, due to the nuances of java bytecode, it will take a long time before it even generates a valid class file.
2:21 AM
What happens when you try to .invoke() a class that is an infinite loop?
It doesn't terminate?
So it can handle an ever-growing number of threads?
The main worry would be a memory leak caused by one of the threads.
Any clue how long it will take for it to start outputting stuff?
2:28 AM
I'm probably going to ask for some feedback on whether or not it is fair to allow eval-like stuff.
It would take 3199925962 iterations of the main loop before it would even create any byte code with the required magic number at the beginning. It would take much longer before the generated code has a main method.
Does anyone know why RoboCritters is saying this is linked? The 2d regex question is not mentioned at all..
In the page source 47311 only occurs twice where the linked list is
It's weird
Investigation time.
PhiNotPi the Private Eye.
Unless they picked up on the fact that Sparr mentioned it in relation to 2D Pattern matching
But that would be crazy
2:43 AM
I thought of that, but there's no way.
@Calvin'sHobbies Link dump
@TheNumberOne But the 2d regex qid is clearly only there twice (one for the "Linked" text and one for the mini vote count)
Where did line 98 come from? (probably the sidebar itself...)
And I'm almost certain it's not in any revision history
It's only in the source code twice also...
2:49 AM
Maybe we can test out that obscure chat idea?
99% certain nothing will come of that.
Wait, I think this might be it: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/47311/…
That is, if links like that go both ways
The links do go both ways.
I didn't know that...
Me neither
> 10 questions linked to/from Language Design: 2-D Pattern Matching
Yep, rearranging words says robocritters is linked!
Your experiment worked.
Can it be undone?
Deleted comment, let's see
2:55 AM
I still see the link
On rearrange but not robo
It fixed one half of it.
Might just need to wait
It could be a whole week before it fixes itself, or never at all.
So "Linked" should read "Linked To or From" or something
@PhiNotPi Or until @randomra has the same question :P
2:59 AM
XD wow
We could pepper SE with invisible links. Think of the power we can wield.
Please yes.
Do the links work cross-site?
What [about](@PhiNotPi) invisible pings?
wait dangit
I thought that worked...
That doesn't work.
This is a test ping.
Did that work?
3:03 AM
Maybe this?
It seems to have worked from my end (when I hover over it, your message is highlighted in grey).
[@PhiNotPi](Not ping.)
We should link a whole ton of pages across SE to our sandbox or something.
No ping 4 me.
3:04 AM
Another test ping.
@Calvin'sHobbies lol
Can we ping ourselves @TheNumberOne
Doesn't seem to work
3:05 AM
That worked.
I have a coworker named Pingping. Perhaps she could be of assistance here.
@Calvin'sHobbies Amazing choice of link placement.
@Doorknob Was that supposed to ping Calvin's Hobbies ?
3:06 AM
@TheNumberOne It was.
@MartinBüttner I said don't mind me
Don't worry about it. B)
3:07 AM
Did it not work?
@Doorknob You can ping yourself in the future, though.
Like this.
Does it make the noise?
Beep boop
It does.
I can't do that thing you did where you linked to your own post.
I've jealous, I like the ping noise.
@MartinBüttner We discovered that the list of "Linked" posts next to a question includes things that have linked to the question
Maybe that was common knowledge though
3:09 AM
So no cross-site linkage?
@Calvin'sHobbies I discovered the same thing earlier today when linking up random ASCII art of the day.
@Calvin'sHobbies Yeah, I knew that from SO.
@PhiNotPi No (that's what I meant by "doesn't seem to work" above, I wasn't responding to One)
@MartinBüttner And we were attempting to use that information for personal gain.
@Calvin'sHobbies :(
@MartinBüttner The link I made on Rearranging Words is still there, like a ghost
3:12 AM
I think it's gone now.
Wait, nevermind, it's gone
Well that was lame.
Gone but not forgotten.
RIP link
3:14 AM
I guess Zelda is on her own from here on out.
She has the horse
Epoxy or whatever
@AlexA. ahem, Epona was Malon's
Well she has the Gandalf or something, that large, orange fellow.
(Glue is made from hooves so maybe epoxy is apt...)
Did you know that gelatin is a type of animal glue?
3:16 AM
You can glue animals together with gelatin?
Hold on, let me get my neighbor's pets for an experiment
Sure, if you try hard enough.
I'm pretty determined.
@AlexA. Yes, and they tried to toss the triforce in the fires of R'hllor
Gandalf was the one in A Land Before Time, right?
With the flute
You're a dude in a kilt with a flute, you get big at some point
Gandalf is not to be confused with Ganondorf, one of the main protagonists in the Harry Potter series.
3:21 AM
Oh yeah, the wizard or whatever
Wait, isn't Canondwarf the Gibli? Bearded little person?
Sorry, I don't know much about the Twilight series.
I hear it's full of rather toothy fellows.
@AlexA. Now I can only think of Totoro
Your neighbor?
No, he moved last month
He got spirited away on a moving castle
There should be a language (like shakespeare?) all about fantasy references
3:26 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies I thought he ran some kind of Kikoman delivery service. You know, delivering soy sauce or whatever.
@AlexA. Ok, I'm done
That was a good run.
I tried to mangle as many references as possible. I think I did pretty well.
3:38 AM
Write a sentence using only fantasy-based words, every substantial word must be from a different universe.
"Hermione the turnip spirit had a lightsaber that she used to kill white walkers and oliphaunts during the hunger games on death mountain."
(I guess I'm not done :P)
Oh, good. I thought you were going to leave me on the cliff by the sea waiting for more
Good night!
@Calvin'sHobbies You forgot The White Whale.
I forgot a lot of things
You mean the one with a pocket watch?
3:42 AM
Or the extentable robotic limbs?
The dragon?
@Sparr Sure hope you think so. If not, I'm still losing in your character counts challenge.
@Dennis I don't get the references
The reply thingie should take you to Sparr asking is /// a language?, which I have used in one of his questions.
3:46 AM
I think he means the Count Character from Frankenstein Street
2 hours later…
6:02 AM
@Sp3000 Where its not the votes that count, but the Count that votes ?
6:49 AM
Q: Heightmap of Boxes

KatyaHave a look at this ascii art diagram of various boxes: +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | +-------------------------------+ +-------+ | | | | ...

@Katya can we assume that any two boxes' vertical lines will always have a space column between them ?
@Optimizer No, they can be close together. Look at the second input
@Optimizer Never mind, something weird happened when I copy pasted the inputs into the question
it padded it with spaces or something, wasn't supposed to look like that
I'll just add another test case for the "close together" vertical lines
Q: Output your username without using any of the characters in your username!

WallyWestThis is a little meta... I need you to golf some code that takes no input whatsoever but outputs your username. That may seem easy enough, but you are code restricted. For example, if my username was JimmyOlson172 my code for generating JimmyOlson172 cannot contain characters (numbers, upper cas...

7:14 AM
Hi, I don't know if this is the place, but I wanted to ask a quick question before I propose a question in the sandbox. Will it be well received if the question requires making pie chart and bar plots (assuming I manage to make the question entertaining/fun)? I guess many frequently used golfing languages doesn't support this. I'm thinking of doing a simplified twist of the classic xkcd-strip: xkcd.com/688
@StewieGriffin hi, something similar was already done:
Q: xkcd challenge: "Percentage of the screen that is [x] color"

WendiKiddSo I think we've all probably seen this xkcd comic: : This might either be too general or too difficult, I'm not sure. But the challenge is to create a program in any language that creates a window that has at least 2 colors and displays in English words what percentage of the screen is each co...

generally simple graphic output can be fine but if the question can be done with ascii output, that is preferred
you can check the questions with tag to see examples
7:37 AM
@randomra. Well, it was well received at least =) Didn't find that one before I asked here.
I think Peter was just to mean to dupe hammer this question:
Q: Output your username without using any of the characters in your username!

WallyWestThis is a little meta... I need you to golf some code that takes no input whatsoever but outputs your username. That may seem easy enough, but you are code restricted. For example, if my username was JimmyOlson172 my code for generating JimmyOlson172 cannot contain characters (numbers, upper cas...

It definitely is not a novel idea, but its questionable to call it a dupe. We should have let the community decide.
Personnaly, I don't see it as a dupe.
honestly, i think closing it as a dupe was a mercy
its reopened again.
It sure is bad designed, and help a little bit to much languages that don't use characters, but it isn't a dupe
7:39 AM
@xnor personal opinions are invited. But just not a dupe hammer
anyone know a language where the empty string produces non-trivial output?
And as said in the comment, It would be easier to do it with the nick "abba" than with the nick "[POST]Partenaire"
I am totally up for closing it again, given community agrees. currently it got reopened in such a short time, relaying that community does not completely agree
(I personally won't VTC as dupe though)
I can't actually downvote, so won't be able to help you ^^'
in my defense, I warned the OP about exactly this 20 minutes ago
7:45 AM
and still troll about it ?
that's no defense
@xnor maybe if the spec doesn't specify that errors go to stderr
unfortunately, given the convention that stderr output doesn't count as default, i don't think it would work
too bad Pyth's G that prints the alphabet is a letter
@Optimizer it's silly, but what would you do with new accounts?
that's why I said, that error should go to stdout, not stderr
first-time posters sometimes post on these things
would they have to assert they didn't create a name that gives an advantage?
now we have 1 month of False==xnor
7:49 AM
is it really a month?
that i didn't know
yeah, or not if a mod thinks otherwise
they can change it back if you really want
looks like not, i changed it back
oh, it doesn't stick on posts
that's awkward
comment responses still save though
maybe there is a short period when you can change it back
ah, makes sense
that for warning me then
so i don't have to wrangle a mod
DigitalTrauma couldn't change it back after the 1st of April joke name
7:52 AM
note to self: reserve all useful names now in advance of possible contests
@randomra Oh, was that really a month of MariaTidalTug?

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