12:16 AM
@RydwolfPrograms Is this valid to claim your bounty? esolangs.org/wiki/Trianguish#Computational_class
8
unfortunately a full construction is a) so large and b) so slow that I haven't been able to build a full program, but there's a working demonstration of the only non-obvious piece, everything else is straightforward
also I made a few changes to my local copy of the Trianguish interpreter in order to make it a bit more usable when working with larger programs: nethack4.org/pastebin/…; I don't know whether you'd be interested in them or not

...wow

also that link is broken, I meant nethack4.org/pastebin/… (for the improvements patch)

12:42 AM
@Neil ooh thanks, perfect
luckily the organizers allowed one of my teammates' roommates to run a mouse in for me :P

1 hour later…
1:44 AM
Posting this, any final feedback?

I'm not sure if it's so interesting for the answerers, the theoretically optimal strategy is probably either "brute-force digits of pi until you find a particularly compressible string" or just calculating pi from the start
and the former seems incredibly tedious, it's basically the codegolf equivalent of bitcoin mining
but those aren't validity / improvement complaints, more an issue with the concept

2:01 AM
> You may not use built-ins that calculate π or its digits
how far does that extend?

I think at least one language has a builtin for 2π
which seems potentially quite usable in a problem like this, so it would be good to know whether or not it's allowed

but even in terms of getting pi through something like algebraic built-ins
is `cos^-1(-1)` considered a built-in that calculates pi?
and then is something that calculates `n` digits of any number allowed? It's not explicitly calculating pi's digits (because i imagine the "no calculating digits" is to stop answers like `100ɾ∆i` where `∆i` gets the nth digit of pi)

True... Maybe I'll just remove that rule entirely then

that's typically what happens when there's an obvious built-in a lot of languages will have
so people can use answers that just use a constant and or direct function
@emanresuA strictly a string, or can it be a list of digits/list of chars?

i would assume a priori that the format is flexible

2:11 AM
assuming that pi is random, statistically the most-compressible 100-digit substring of the first 10^14 digits of pi probably compresses to 86 or 87 bytes
good luck finding it, though :-D
err, not bytes, decimal digits

compressed using what method though?

any, assuming that the compression method doesn't waste encodings
even if the compression method isn't random, we're assuming that pi is, so the probability of hitting an particularly compressible sequence doesn't depend on which sequences it is that are particularly compressible
(in practice, most compression methods do waste encodings on things like headers and checksums. but generally have variants which don't)

base255 number compression seems to consistently get it down to 42 bytes (not including delimiters, assuming sbcs)
any substring that is

yes, that'll happen 255/256 of the time
err, 254/255
get a leading zero after compression and you save a byte
get two leading zeros and you save two bytes, and so on
this is unless the length of the output is implied by the length of the input, in which case obviously it doesn't get any shorter because the particularly-compressed encodings are all being used for shorter strings
now I'm wondering if this is technically a compression algorithm, we call it "compression" but it is different in nature from something like gzip

blind vyncoding only gets it down to 88.625 bytes :sob:
thanks range coding very cool

2:22 AM
In general vyncode performs worse on inputs containing anything precompressed

oh this is on the raw number

vyncode should ideally detect compressed strings and send them literally, rather than attempting to vyncode them
and other compressed constants

That'd be smart but technically annoying, since you'd need to port the Vyxal lexer into Scala

I'm sure the v3 lexer could be repurposed for v2 syntax

0

Your challenge is to print any 100 consecutive digits of π. You must give the index at which that subsequence appears. The 3 is not included. For example, you could print any of the following: 1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679 (i...

2:28 AM
Alright there you go

6 bytes? Really?
smh
@NewPosts would calculating pi through cos^-1(-1) then eval to 100 decimals be considered trivial?

I'd say no - I was more intending to discourage simply print(pi) or similar

3:33 AM
oh that's fun
so github's student developer pack has a mailgun pack
which gives you like 20k emails for automated email sending
and to log into the account, I need to use my `users.noreply.github.com` email
which I had to go to my github profile settings to find

4 hours later…
7:21 AM
@emanresuA vscode is a web page wrapped in an app?

7:52 AM
Yes but it's a fairly restricted webpage
@NewPosts Wow this really did better in the sandbox than on main

Is there any simple way in GolfScript to turn `a b` on the stack into `a b [a b]`?
like `].~@`

8:17 AM
@emanresuA shout out to that time I got a +8 sand, +3 main and only got +8 on main after 2 years and after mentioning it here in 2022
Sandbox score does not imply main score :p

How to get rid of the braces of `{...}` easily in GolfScript?
Is it possible to get a radiation-softened quine along this line? `[{.`\{`,}\$1>~`1>-1<} {.`\{`,}\$1>~`1>-1<}].`\{`,}\$1>~`1>-1<`

1 hour later…
9:37 AM
Some stuff just do be like that - Sounds great in theory
Another example: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/265561/…, which I kind of want to submit a tarpit answer to to increase activity

3 hours later…
12:39 PM
0

Your task is to write a program \\$p\\$ which outputs a string \\$s\\$ with the same length as \\$p\\$, where \\$s \neq p\\$. If I remove the \\$n\\$th byte from your program to get program \\$q\\$, then either \\$q\\$ outputs \\$s\\$ with the \\$n\\$th byte removed, or it does something else. Your score is the nu...

2 hours later…
3:06 PM
Have we had any challenges for code that still works if you change one or more characters in it?

@Simd ohoho yes we have

Thanks!
If I delete a character it doesn't compile

3:23 PM
CMC write code that outputs a number and if any character is deleted from it, outputs a bigger one

Python 3, 35 bytes: `print(1/len(open(__file__).read()))`
normally prints `0.02857142857142857`; if any character is removed, it will either print a higher number or crash with an error message containing the number `1`
I'm actually pretty sure there's no way to remove a character without causing some kind of error

Cool! Python is difficult to stop crashing if you remove a character

4:19 PM
Can you make any python code that isn't a number that runs no matter which character you delete?

sure! Python 3, 20 bytes:

Good point!

0

The aim of this post is to gather all the tips that can often be applied to radiation-hardening challenges. Please only post answers which can apply to a large number of languages, and one tip per answer.

I think I am going to pose challenge where the code has to keep on outputting a larger number each time you delete a character

1 hour later…
5:25 PM
@Simd as in, the program with the nth char removed will output a smaller number than the program with the `n+1th` char removed?
@Simd Python 2, 7 bytes: `print.1`

@noodleman I think as in the outputted number must increase with the number of characters removed
I like your idea better tho, it seems more feasible

yes
i might sandbox that rn actually

someday I'll get back to challenge-writing
been too busy making compilers and chatbots :p

@Ginger its crazy you're like one of the most active community members yet you post like once every four months

well, "community" means quite a few things :b
I'm one of the most active chat users, but on the sites I don't do much
my interest in code golf has waned, but I hang around chat because there are lots of interesting and smart people there that I enjoy talking to
shame talking in chat doesn't get you rep, otherwise I'd have quite a bit of it d:
and even if I don't directly golf much anymore, I still do related things like work on tooling for Vyxal Corp.

5:43 PM
0

Output greater than without the previous character code-golf radiation-hardening For each character in your program, the program with that character removed must produce a number smaller than the program with the next character removed. Your base program isn't required to do anything. An example ...

I find more fulfillment in helping out the community than in actually golfing, so that's what I do

fair

@noodleman yes

@Simd oh, i thought you meant something else, i just sandboxed that challenge idea...

huh, that's not how I read that

5:45 PM

sorry for misinforming you q:

@SandboxPosts .
but you can take it over if you want

@noodleman I like yours too!
mine has a flaw sadly.... 1/1000000000 gets bigger each time you remove a 0

is that what you were intending? or was your challenge something else?

it was something else but my idea was worse

5:46 PM
okay

basic math question. If I want to write E(Y | X) as a sum, I think I should write sum P( Y=y | X = x) but what am I summing over?
is it over just y or is it over x and y?
you can see I am confused :)
the answer is just over y

@Simd remove the `1/` then? :p

@Ginger but the it'll get smaller each time..

@Ginger :)

I kinda want to write a challenge that only 2d langs can compete in where the score is the area of the program
and that'd apply to the shape of the code itself, not its bounding box; so a Trilangle program would be scored as if it were a triangle

6:07 PM
how about this. At step i where i is even your code should have the property that no matter what character you remove the resulting code either crashes/doesn't compile or increase the value of the output.If i is odd it decreases the value of the output

2 hours later…
8:30 PM
Have we had a fastest code challenge for factoring 64 bit numbers?

9:07 PM
@Ginger Reporting you for identity theft

@RydwolfPrograms I put it back when I was done using it tho!

1 hour later…
10:19 PM
@RydwolfPrograms: if you want to talk about Trianguish, I'm here
ah, but you aren't, looks like I didn't quite get online in time

10:51 PM
CMC:
@Adám Extended Dyalog APL, 13: `{⍵⊤⍨⌽1+⍳⌊¯!⍵}` Try it online!

@ais523-higheffortanswers he'll be back in an hour or so

11:20 PM
@Adám This is a digraph in Jelly IIRC
@ais523-higheffortanswers Yes. To be honest I didn't expect anyone to actually attempt it xD
Do you have enough answers that I could even award the 2500 rep?

tbf this construction probably isn't worth all 2500 – you could just award 500 on my most recent (on this account)
it is fun to watch, though, using builder snakes to reach points to build things, and building secondary constructors to avoid a slowdown
but the secondary constructors are easier to build than I anticipated because you don't have to build the logic that determines whta to build, you can just leave that in its original location and send the instructions along a wire
so it was only about 3 days' worth of work rather than the weeks it looked like it coudl take
@Adám believe it or not this is actually a Jelly builtin. although I needed to add a second builtin to get the output format to match
by the way, I'm pretty sure self-replicating programs do exist in Trianguish, for much the same reason that TC languages generally have quines, but they'd almost certainly be too large to run in the JS interpreter