The Nineteenth Byte

1:00 PM

@PyGamer0 im not sure if im understanding what im saying here, but; is there a way to pad out a 2d array to be rectangular here?

Nobody Needs Names

Any first thoughts? github.com/SuperiorSimple/Simple/tree/main

lyxal

I'm really having fun here setting up Fig

real good

thank frick it's done

thejonymyster

thank fig

Nobody Needs Names

Any suggestions before I go to sleep?

mousetail

Why implement your own stack instead of using the built in one?

Nobody Needs Names

1:14 PM

is there a buiktin>

?

hyper-neutrino

the built-in one is called a list lol

python lists have O(1) .append and .pop

Nobody Needs Names

alas, i feel that i'm probably going to add some stuff into it

@hyper-neutrino well, isn't it still O(1)

mousetail

You can inherit from collections.UserList

hyper-neutrino

although .pop errors if the list is empty with the built-in so I guess you might want that

mousetail

So you get the build in list methods for free

Then you can add anything you need but don't need to reimplement things already there by default

Nobody Needs Names

1:15 PM

I might want to rotate it or flip it anyhow... (not to say it's hard to do with builtin tho)

hyper-neutrino

@NobodyNeedsNames well given that you use a python list and .append and .pop your stack's time complexity is the same as the built-in list's

also I am pretty sure python lists are O(1) append and pop

you should probably be using a length check for your pop function instead of catching the index error

Nobody Needs Names

why

mousetail

Error checking is slow

Nobody Needs Names

anyways more replies and stuff do ping me because else I won't check everything

mousetail

It needs to collect the entire backtrace

Nobody Needs Names

1:16 PM

o/

@mousetail forgiveness>permission but bye anyways

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames disagree there

Seggan

@lyxal it took me 40 mins once to set up gradle 👀

by the way, Fig is a mess, so please dont mind too much

thejonymyster

@hyper-neutrino does python have try catch? :P

oh im late, lol

dw i was kidding

Seggan

@thejonymyster whython has an error handling operator lol

thejonymyster

lolol

lang dev stuff: i was making a cellular automata / 2d language type thing, but in programming it i wrote myself a bunch of macros so that it was clearer what each rule / symbol was doing

but then i realized it might be more fun to make a lang for that instead

Seggan

1:29 PM

a lang for writing macros?

thejonymyster

no for making 2d automata type things

3

Seggan

interesting

thejonymyster

a macro writing lang would be good but is well beyond my experience

Seggan

lol ive said that 3 times already

thejonymyster

you are very interested!

i'll have to make it more variable than what i have currently

/ flexible

mousetail

1:30 PM

C macros?

thejonymyster

i'll share my code, i just added a huge comment that explains shit lol

Untitled Copy (1) Copy (1)

(jk thats a link to my code)

this was for the specific 2d lang i was making

but the like, subturn command itself is what i kind of want to turn into a language of its own

where the syntax would be like the calls to that function

mousetail

So you basically have javascript that generates more javascript code?

thejonymyster

well it doesnt generate it, i dont think its a true macro or whatever

im using terms my friends said to me

im not a real programmer :P

mousetail

Ah ok, a macro is usually code that generates more code

thejonymyster

right that makes sense

mousetail

1:33 PM

Interesting concept though

thejonymyster

ty :-) this is my cleanest code ever btw X_X

mousetail

Hmm and I still can't really tell what anything does

Doesn't help that the repl.it IDE is kinda terrible

thejonymyster

yeah lmao

it's funny my friend said it was "fine, other than the fact that it's almost completely unreadable"

(paraphrased)

mousetail

I agree with your friend

thejonymyster

yay! previously my code was regular bad

anyway if i end up getting tips for the actual coding ill just go to the firing range or whatever :P

mousetail

1:37 PM

If your code is unreadable enough nobody can spot any mistakes. I've been doing that for years

10

thejonymyster

but yea in re: "javascript code creating more javascript code" thing,

i forgot what i was gonna say

bye :P

user

@mousetail They recently got an upgrade, went from Monaco to Codemirror

There wasn't much of a change with the Java autocompletion but at least it wasn't glitching anymore

mousetail

Issue is that either the window is tiny or fullscreen. No inbetween

thejonymyster

1:54 PM

@mousetail wdym?

you can click and drag to scale

mousetail

I don't think you can (?)

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster wdym

thejonymyster

@mousetail next to the scroll bar theres a thingy you can click and drag to make the window wider or thinner etc

if im understanding what you mean right :P

mousetail

thejonymyster

@PyGamer0 is there an element(?) for making all lists in a list be the same length via padding?

or is that not a relevant question

mousetail

1:58 PM

I don't see it

user

Ah yeah, it's annoying when you're looking at someone's repl and you want to see their files and console at the same time

But if you fork it, then you can resize it and stuff

thejonymyster

@mousetail OH i always forget that exists

god im linking people to that all the time oops

im always assuming people look at it in the dev environment T_T

PyGamer0

@mousetail WW made a haskell golfing library (hgl)

mousetail

You shouldn't need to fork to read the code properly

that's just bad design

thejonymyster

i guess what i was talking about was fullscreen mode yeah

mousetail

2:00 PM

@PyGamer0 Cool, I'll check it out for inspiration

thejonymyster

yea repl is kinda terrible :P i'll install vscode or something soon i just like being able to start n scrap shit at the drop of a hat

mousetail

There's better online IDEs for working but you probably want to publish to github/gitlab in the end to make it easier for people to see your code and submit issues and comments

For a javascript project you can make it interactive via github pages/gitlab pages/vercel/netlify

thejonymyster

i'll look into that :D

Nobody Needs Names

@mousetail well, if you want to have a shorter time, better use python and not some golflang IMO, idc

o/

mousetail

?

Golfing languages usually have no error handling since a error would be the option to do something else useful

Seggan

2:05 PM

@mousetail also cloudflare pages

lyxal

@thejonymyster github.com/features/codespaces might be of interest

mousetail

You can also rent my old laptop for 10x that price

thejonymyster

>price

~_~;

but my m$ney....

lyxal

@user I got confused for a second there because I was like "hey wait we never used Monaco" and then realised you mean replit

@thejonymyster use a linter for goodness sake

thejonymyster

What's a linter?

mousetail

2:17 PM

Checks your code for common errors and formats it to match standards

Seggan

think a PEP-8 format checker in the case of Python

mousetail

For JS typical choice is ESlint + AirBnB

lyxal

I use Prettier for JS/HTML/CSS lol

mousetail

Prettier is more of a formatter than a linter

thejonymyster

ah prettier ive heard of :P

idk ive got weird ideas about whats readable for me sometimes

i guess i could always step in and undo things it does that i dont like

like separating my code from my mid-code block-comments

lyxal

2:31 PM

CMQ: If you could change the name of any esolang, which esolang name would you change and what would you change it to?

Fatalize

@lyxal 05AB1E to "ReadableName"

PyGamer0

@lyxal brainf**k to brainfrick

for obvious family friendly reasons :P

Seggan

@lyxal Vyxal to Veggan

oh wow. i was looking through the selected technological data in the arctic code vault and apparently they decided Clojure and Erlang were important enough to warrant entire book-length specifications stored in the vault

5

lol they stuck Shakespeare in there too

thejonymyster

2:46 PM

@lyxal /// back to /// if the author changes the name :P

@Seggan the lang or the literature?

or the bard himself?

Seggan

@thejonymyster all the guy's works

thejonymyster

genuinely wasnt sure since you were talking about langs lol

that makes more sense

CMQ: what does the M in CMQ stand for

lyxal

mini

thejonymyster

what makes it minier than a regular question

is it the big bold CMQ label

pxeger

it's by analogy with CMC, which is a mini challenge because it's not being posted as a challenge on the main site

thejonymyster

2:55 PM

ahh

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@pxeger oh nice

Radvylf Programs

3:43 PM

@lyxal That makes sense, but I think it'd be better to do it within the language rather than a flag. Like APL's ⎕IO

@Seggan I mean, the arctic code vault also includes a specification for Unsure, which is of course the #1 most important language to save in the event humanity is at risk

Wait no it was plumber, even worse lol

thejonymyster

is there any consensus on using languages that never halt by design?

Radvylf Programs

You'd have to look at the I/O rules

If it outputs something then just continues whirring away for the rest of time it's probably still valid

thejonymyster

well, programs must terminate by default seems to be winning as a general rule

but i feel like the rule might be different in a lang without halting capabilites :P

this isn't even hypothetical btw, i was thinking of using bytebeat for some audio output challenges

it gives you a variable t which represents the time state of the program (constantly ticking upward) and the "output" is the tone(s) produced by the expression

i dont know how to explain it good enough to be accurate but its basically that

it doesn't halt on error even, it just doesnt play audio whenever the expression is invalid

so like t%2 doesn't halt, it just isn't playing half of the time

you could definitely make it guaranteed to always be invalid after a certain t though

t>n?1/0:1

PyGamer0

3:58 PM

also Vim 9 has been released

TKirishima

4:13 PM

Hello guys!
I have a question about K!
Does somebody knows how to "put parameters" when running a K program with ngn ?
Something like: rlwrap ./k example.k < example.txt

pxeger

what do you mean by parameters? command-line arguments can just be used normally AFAIK

New Posts

0

Q: What is our consensus on languages which do not halt by design?

Current consensus seems to be that programs must terminate by default. This makes sense in general. However, does this bar use of languages which are not designed with a halt state (other than manually stopping the program)? For example, take something like ByteBeat, which I believe is a family o...

discussion policy answers rules defaults

TKirishima

Yes of course!
But for example, let's say I write a script in some language, and I want to run a K program that takes data from the STDIN. My question was; is it possible to make a K program run as if there was already STDIN.
For example in some languages you can just do ```
py main.py < input.txt
```
and normally it works. However I tried this in K and it doesn't seem to work.

I'm not very clear sorry

user

@TKirishima You might want to also ask in the k tree and The APL Orchard

TKirishima

Thank you ! :)!

hyper-neutrino

4:23 PM

the < file syntax should be independent of what command you're running on the left side - does the program work when you run it without the < file and just input into STDIN manually?

TKirishima

Yes it works whitout the < file

pxeger

In what respect is it not working?

TKirishima

For example:
My basic program is:
a: 0:`
`0:a
So when I execute it, I must enter something and after it, it "prints" it.
But when I do the same thing with < file
It's still ask me for input, but the input should already be "given by the file".
And the file isn't empty

pxeger

Have you tried without rlwrap?

TKirishima

Still doing the same thing :/

PyGamer0

4:31 PM

why not read the file directly

TKirishima

What do you mean ?
Like that I execute the K program than I put the content of the file ?

PyGamer0

/example.k
contents:0:"example.txt"

TKirishima

Oh thank's a lot it works

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