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12:03 AM
Who’s Jon Skeet?
Our Lord
Oh wait, he’s the highest reputation person?
on stack_overflow_api?
@Wansen He is no person, he is a God, a legend
Jon Skeet can perform infinite loops in 4.6 seconds
@Wansen First user on the network to hit 1m rep
Q: Jon Skeet Facts

Bill the LizardI'm looking for Chuck Norris Facts style answers. In case anyone is curious, this question was inspired by Jon's own comment to this question. EDIT: If you're into cryptography, you may enjoy these facts. Now with official sanction from the powers that be!

12:07 AM
@Wansen You can delete messages
What if
there was STILL a SE API
there is a python chat api wrapper and an SE api (idk if there's a python wrapper but it's not hard to do yourself)
You realise there is an SE API, and a Python module that goes with it
Odd, I just realized nothing was starred on Saturday and Sunday (my time)
12:13 AM
Un-RIP the blog - Jon Skeet used the Imperius curse to force hyper to unfreeze the room
then he freezes it without saying anything
RIP blog (sequel)
That said: if y'all have a topic you'd like to write about for the blog, please feel free to. The post about topics is just a suggestion, if you'd like to write about something else related to the site, do so!
There’s only one way to remove Jon Skeet
Jon Skeet wanting to remove Jon Skeet
nevertheless,I tried
Here’s what happened
it actually takes about 4 clicks to remove jon skeet i think
Is it recommended to just ignore restrictive IO restrictions on old challenges that many people have complained about?
12:22 AM
JonSkeetStopsPersonDoingHacksError: not a chance
@hyper-neutrino If you click all 4, I bet it'll backfire and delete you instead :P
@hyper-neutrino Nah, because for someone with that many votes, he'd need CM approval to be destroyed
Wait, really?
not destroy, just delete. but maybe deletion wouldn't work either. idk never tried deleting anyone with more than like 3 rep
actually idek if i've deleted any users
gnat must be near-bulletproof :P
12:24 AM
@user Yeah, if you've cast more than a certain number of votes, the SE team has to agree to delete your account
I fixed the code
even if it fails once
I'd imagine that the same process applies to destroying an account
it will try again many more times
for science i will try to delete caird's account /s
12:25 AM
@Wansen fyi You can edit your messages if you accidentally hit enter to ensure they're on one line
@hyper, only if @caird says “yes”. @user, got it, but I forgot
@hyper-neutrino Try deleting mine! :P
@hyper-neutrino I'm an honorary mod, you can't delete (honorary) mod accounts :P
I made code to delete account (joke pls don’t take it seriously)
@Wansen I didn't mean that you should put multiple messages in a single message lol, just that if you forget to add a single word, you can edit it in
12:28 AM
Do you really need to post the full code here?
ok please stop posting so many codeblocks
If you really need to post code, make a gist or something and share the link
Um, okay x36
@Wansen FWIW, the Bakery is for messages here we'd like trashed. We keep it private so that people aren't pinged if their messages get moved
12:30 AM
TIO is also a good (quick) way to do it
@cairdcoinheringaahing *gallery
private = gallery for non mods :P
Plus, "private" is more understandable :P
12:32 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing wait what? im confused
For example, there's a room called "Trash", but if we move messages there, then people get a notification. "Trashcan" doesn't give notifications, but is mod-only, so people can't see what was trashed. The Bakery works to not notify people, but still let them read what was trashed
but yeah true private is easier to understand :p but i would've used read-only
Huh it said :an unknown error has occurred:
@hyper-neutrino Non-mods can't create "private" rooms, and calling a gallery "private" makes more sense to a new user
12:34 AM
that's fair enough
On a slightly more on-topic note, “wasif” had an idea for [a type challenge](codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23868/95204) for my Evolution of Trust! (yes, I am now super obsessed with Nicky Case. Please don’t ask why) Problem is, I don’t know how to make a challenge. Any ideas?
Redwolf's the goto user for KoTHs
But he's inactive now
Imma make a github thing for it then for now
12:52 AM
why do you keep using ---
Seriously, one of the "rules" for this room is that less is more. It doesn't need to always have messages, and you don't need to send "nothing" messages. Take a look at the chatiquette: "Don't make noise" is a central tenet here
I would say that less is less, and less is good because this is code golf :P
Wait, I thought the Tron KotH thing was posted already?
@cairdcoinheringaahing Frick it, I'll go ahead and write my post on KotHs
1:01 AM
nice, so if i start writing the thing about language design, maybe by the time i'll be done the timing will be right for post #4
@Wansen Ooh, did I hear you were planning a KotH?
Cool! If at any point you want help or feedback, let me know. KotHs can be pretty tricky to get right.
Where to start?
You probably want to start by coming up with a quick overview of the challenge. What the topic is, how the gameplay will go, what language(s) will be allowed.
1:07 AM
How would I do it if I allow all languages in TIO? I don't want to exclude "pure" code-golfers that only use Jelly or 05AB1E or others of the like
KotHs are a little different with regards to allowed languages. I'd actually recommend keeping it limited to just JS or Python.
The problem with allowing any language is that it requires a lot of overhead for interacting with the controller, and most people already know JS or Python anyway.
After you're done with a quick overview, that's probably a good stage to start thinking about how fun the idea is so far. It's early enough in the process that you can make big changes without having to scrap lots of work, and unfortunately a large fraction of KotH ideas tend to not work so well in real life.
A good thing about Python Koths, is that a lot of langs are written in Python and so you can some up with some bash program on TIO that runs those in esoteric langs if you really want
I'll leave it at "popular" languages: Python 2.7.0, Python 3.8.0, Javascript (ES6), C, C++
...except I don't know C or C++
1:10 AM
I'd probably just pick one of those, then
It feels wrong if you're used to , but restricting the language really is the easiest option in most cases
I honestly think I'll just make it 3 categories, Python 2.7, 3.8, and JS+ES6
Hey hey hey hey!
How're you?
Hi hi!!
1:11 AM
I'm in MIA mode again unfortunately, and I don't think I'll be coming out of it anytime soon : (
What's MIA mode?
Any reason why?
Sorry guys. Sorry especially @RedwolfPrograms. I hate to keep ditching you on the thingy majig
@Wansen Avi has "phases" of being active here
1:12 AM
Everyone does, really
Yeah, that's true
I definitely do, I just drag myself into TNB every day because it's basically my job :p
But you'll notice I haven't asked a question in ages
@cairdcoinheringaahing Arghhh, I don't know
I almost always have a TNB tab open, but I'll leave the room if my computer is closed for some reason
(e.g. if I'm walking to a lecture)
1:14 AM
Going back to KotHs (I've been drafting this message for like 5m :p):
There are two main things I'd keep in mind when thinking about whether a KotH will be fun: entry barrier and skill ceiling. Entry barrier is how hard it is to write a bot. If it's easy to get started, more people will get involved. Skill ceiling is the harder one. A higher skill ceiling means that it's harder to find an optimal strategy, often because there's a large number of possible strategies, and some depth in the gameplay.
@RedwolfPrograms Oh god, main activity phases are completely different to chat activity phases :P
Well it's basically prisoner's dilemma
except you can make mistakes
But I'll try my very bestest to stay in touch in one-on-one if anyone ever wants to reach out! I'm AviFS#4576 on Discord (and you can find me on the CGCC server)
@Wansen In that case, you might want to consider something a little more complicated.
We could do with a "canonical" prisoner's dilemma Koth tbh, the current one is outdated and a bit overly complex
1:15 AM
It'd be great to chat, so please feel free!! And I don't want to totally disappear : p
@AviFS See, I always want to reach out to people individually, but can never think of what to talk about :P
Last time I properly reached out to someone out of the blue on discord, was Mego and he's ignored me for 6 months :/
@Redwolf It's prisoner's dilemma. 5% chance of making a mistake and doing the opposite of what wanted to do - equivalent of 10% chance random move instead. @AviFS, same as @cairdcoinheringaahing
@RedwolfPrograms Those sorts of KotHs tend to have a low entry barrier, so they get lots of submissions and tend to be fairly fun, but no deeper strategies are really possible (and no bots are really "unique", since there's only so many strategies and most have been done before).
@cairdcoinheringaahing Then I'll beat you to it! Oh wait-- I already did and then you responded and then I never followed up again. NOOOOOOO
I do that to everyone : (
I'll try to contact you on discord whenever I get the chance, I usually don't use it so it's a little "out of sight out of mind" for me :p
@AviFS RI :P
Rest in :P?
IIRC, you responded to my last message by posting the latest checkup on Dennis in talk.tio :P
@RedwolfPrograms R:-I-:P
1:24 AM
@hyper-neutrino Do you get a ping when someone invites you to a room?
1:58 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing yes
@cairdcoinheringaahing this could simplify anti-account-deletion grinders ;p
@user Thanks for the info! I followed the instructions here to download the Scala installer for Windows and create the example hello-world project. Built it with sbt from command line and it worked.
Then I downloaded IntelliJ and tried to open the same project. The build failed and said "Cannot determine Java VM executable in selected JDK." Is that a Scala version error, or...?
2:19 AM
Q: Let's go for a rollercodester ride

M VirtsLet's go for a rollercodester ride The objective of this challenge is to create a program that is run recursively through several languages of your choice. The output of the first iteration becomes the code for the second iteration, et. cetera. You choose the language sequence, but each unique l...

there we go
right website this time :p
My draft for a blog post on KotHs: docs.google.com/document/d/…
that was quite fast
(The links all go nowhere in particular, I just wanted them blue so I'd remember to fill in the right pages when I converted to markdown :p)
@hyper-neutrino I'd had parts of it drafted for a few weeks
i thought you typed that all up just now
2:24 AM
But I'm a fast writer :p
2:39 AM
@RedwolfPrograms frick I almost forgot to suggest from my actual cg related email
2:53 AM
@DLosc Hmm, did you set an SDK?
I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that error before, maybe try creating a new project using the Scala project wizard and see which settings are changed?
3:31 AM
@user I doubt it, I don't know what that means. :P SDK = Software Development Kit?
ngl watching the american election results was more interesting than watching canada's and i live in canada lol
Well... we've had more than our share of "interesting" elections over the past couple of decades.
I mean I know absolutely nothing about canadian politics, but it seems like it's probably not as interesting
From what I've heard, the 80s were pretty boring, at least where presidential elections were concerned.
yeah :P our elections usually aren't all that interesting cuz the difference between our two parties is significantly less than the democrats/republicans (i think)
and also since we actually have more than two parties unlike the US, we can have minority governments and that happesn quite often so change isn't as drastic
this election wasn't supposed to happen but the government called an early election to try to get a majority liberal government which doesn't seem to be happening from the projections and leads
3:39 AM
Plus with the US election there's 50 states which each get a pretty big vote in the final outcome, so there's 50 big "turning points" in the election results
Whereas with any reasonable system you just watch the votes trickle in
@RedwolfPrograms I mean... I wouldn't say all states get a pretty big vote. Not unless it comes down to the wire. Usually the result seems to depend on the medium-large states.
that's true
we also have ridings here that are kinda like the electoral college except each riding is just worth 1 seat and there are 338 across the country so it's not as absurd as 50
it is still possible to lose the popular vote and win though, which happened last election (2019, liberals won with a slight popular vote disadvantage to the conservatives)
@DLosc Well, not necessarily super big, but they're fairly sizeable and occur with a long enough delay that it's a bit suspenseful waiting to see which candidate gets the next few electors
Yeah, true. It makes for better television.
i mean the thing is every time the live counter for us changes it's like, liberals have gone from 159 projected seats to 158
whereas in the US it's like
cali votes came in, one party just jumped like a a tenth of the total votes lmao (idk if that number is even close)
3:44 AM
More than a tenth, IIRC
55 / 538 apparently
so just over 1/10
So, very good estimate :)
i'm just glad that a) NDP support hasn't drawn too much support away from the liberal party which might cause it to lose and b) PPC still has 0 seats :)
4:31 AM
i just wrote while 1 in a random project file (not golf related) out of habit :/ lol
posted on September 21, 2021 by Razetime

The Ludic Numbers are a sequence that pops up when you apply the sieve of eratosthenes to the natural numbers, completely removing the numbers every iteration. Here is how they are gener...

@emanresuA \o//o\\o//
6:10 AM
How do I install Haskell without chocolatey?
6:20 AM
download the binaries?
the best way to have ghc is to never build from source
@Razetime i dont see any
installer or anything
obviosuly you wont'
search for it
i use haskell stack installer?
you need to google questions a lot more
or go to a haskell chatroom
@Razetime where?
SO? i dont find anything
it must be some cryptic name
6:26 AM
i just looked up "haskell binary download" and got to haskell.org/downloads which seems to have something about bindists and building from src
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced i've no clue either :P
maybe if you google haskell chat there might be something
@Razetime well time to implement a chat server :P
@hyper-neutrino i see mingw32 package for ghc
TIL I was 10 minutes away from being a casual contact of someone with covid a week ago
6:46 AM
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced I was out shopping for food 6 days ago, and left at 5:20pm. It's been released today that there was someone with covid at that same place I was at 5:30pm (10 minutes after I left)
That's... worrying.
@lyxal and the whole city is in lockdown?
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced you're allowed to go out and buy food and other essential stuff
7:03 AM
@lyxal makes sense, lockdown's for less spread, not less food
and on a completely unrelated but on-topic note can anyone review Numberless?
@Wansen too easy for golfing languages
Actually nvm
I read it wrong
Program outputs 0123456789. Remove 0s, output 0. remove 1s => output 1 and so on
still like BaSiCaLLy eVeRy QuEsTiOn eVeR
I already make python solution, give me a moment to retrieve it
k = '0123456789'
for i in'abcdefghij':
 if str(j:=ord(i)-ord('a'))not in k:print(j);break
As you can tell, I am obsessed with the variable names "k", "i" and "j". Very creative names, right?
@lyxal I have 18 bytes in Vyxal for ^, can you do better?
7:16 AM
Nvm 16
@emanresuA Ouch, that hurts!
I have a 16-byte solution for your challenge in Vyxal, which is a golfing language so is much shorter than a solution in, say, Python.
Can I see? Please @emanresuA

If you don't show me in 1-2 mins, I assume you change Vyxal so you can do it 1-byte which is disallowed
I think...?
7:20 AM
@Wansen what
didnt you play with the vyxal bot ?
I'm talking about my question up there - Numberless - "Your program should output 0123456789. If we remove all 0s, it should output 0. Same for all the other numbers (123456789)"
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Yes, I did
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced a little too much
@emanresuA I got 15, nerd
Get gamed on
7:38 AM
CMC: Implement a simple bitset
Q: Output the Collatz Tree using VBA

Juggler_INI am implementing the Collatz tree in VBA as discussed at: Rows of the Collatz tree Using the logic as discussed at: http://oeis.org/search?q=+A088976&sort=&language=&go=Search Given an Excel file with a Sheet named OUTPUT, my code which missing few CHILD values is: Public Sub CollatzTree() ' Col...

@lyxal Uqh...
I honestly don't know what you did :p
@emanresuA would you like the solution?
Are you using the r flag?
I'm only using s to make sure the output is technically a string
7:45 AM
It's 15 flagless if output as a list for removed digits is fine
I had 1234567890kdFkd∨
kd:1234567890⊍⟇ is shorter
Oh very nice
Set operations are always useful for determining what's been removed
7:47 AM
I never use those builtins :p
BTW are we going to make them multiset?
and , yes
Maybe not
That's "elements in exactly one of the two sets", right?
I uh actually don't know
I just call it "python's ^ when used for sets"
Well, if it behaves like xor, that's what it should do :p
8:29 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

don brightCan this polynomial be factored? (in progress) As you may know, Polynomials are expressions involving the sum of a variable raised to various powers, each summand having a different power of the variable and a coefficient multipler of the variable. When the coefficients, variable, and powers are ...

8:46 AM
posted on September 21, 2021 by Mark Giraffe

Challenge Write a program that prints its reversed self. For example, if your code is foo() Then it'll output: )(oof ...

9:02 AM
How CR makes decisions:
A: Do we want accepted answers unpinned on Code Review?

mickmackusaMeh On Code Review, it makes little difference. Code Review isn't riddled with redundant answers. Most researchers are well-prepared to read lengthy and multiple answers. The re-organization of the accepted answer's page location is rather irrelevant here. When I am researching something on CR...

9:29 AM
@DLosc Yep. You should see an option for it in File > Program Structure
10:12 AM
Introducing.... DUN DUN DUN! The new (not) tag:
I am no longer using it in my "new" post.
Q: Building MySQL Database, Server-Application & Client-Application

Mohamed AbdallaTask Description: In this task you will learn the difference between client & server machines. You will also learn how to use various scripting languages and technology to build database server, server application, and client application. 1- To build the Database you can use Mysql Workbench. Your...

But can anyone review it? it's the Evolution of Trust (Part 2) question idea I was talking about earlier in the day. Link!
@NewPosts pls
@NewPosts no
11:13 AM
@user lol, nice
1 hour later…
12:33 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Thank you again. I finally took the time to finish my V golf; When's the Listening Party? should you want to view it.
12:56 PM
@JonathanFrech Nice! Happy to help :P
1:24 PM
CMC: Write a function to compute the nth fibbonacci number. No fibbonacci builtins allowed
brownie points if its less than 18 bytes
@JonathanFrech you can avoid bc with vim's i_<c-r>= . also it seems in vim, the comparison operators returns 0 or 1, so you can also use that instead of sorting. is there a reason why you chose v instead of vim, since it seems you don't use any v-specific features?
@lyxal Imagine not being constantly in contact with people who have fairly high chance of having covid
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced f=x=>x<2?x:f(x-1)+f(x-2)
1:42 PM
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Vyxal: λ2>[₌‹⇩x$x+
Because recursion is cool
@lyxal Couldn't you also use ? I was too lazy to try it, so I'm not sure which would be shorter
@AaronMiller that implies I know how to use
Which I don't.
@lyxal how does that work?
in Vyxal, Jul 29 at 11:45, by lyxal
!!/run ⁽+dk≈Ḟ,
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced x calls the current function
1:46 PM
because i have: λf≡2<⁇↵≡⇂@f`⇂⇂@f+; for future dinoux
@lyxal oof
time to copy the del from apl
@AaronMiller kudos to past lyxal for figuring out how to use
Because current lyxal is way too tired to do so
Hence why I think I'll get going
Future lyxal will be with y'all soon
Ash, old (probably not the shortest): ?.1>+ẋm.ẋ-.2
@lyxal o/
1:49 PM
If Ash was well designed, ?.1>+ẋm.ẋmm would save a byte. If it was actually well designed, it could be much shorter than that I'm sure.
looking at vyxal and ash, i dont think dinoux will stand a chance
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced x86 machine code, 13 bytes: 31 c0 31 d2 42 01 d0 92 e2 fb c3 -- assembly: fibb:|xor eax, eax|xor edx, edx|inc edx|repeat:|add eax, edx|xchg eax, edx|loop repeat|ret| (fastcall convention)
@user Okay, so at this point I'm super frustrated and about ready to give up on the whole thing (or maybe just IntelliJ). >_<
Googled a bit, figured out that JDK basically = Java compiler etc. Fine. How to find the path to the one I have installed? Googled some more. Tried where javac. Turns out it's in C:\Users\DLosc\AppData\Local\Coursier\cache\jvm\adopt@1.8.0-292. That's... not where I expect things to install themselves, but whatever.
Plugged that in to IntelliJ. It looked like it recognized it as a valid JDK, that's good. Rebuilt the Hello World project. Same error. I give up.
@m90 what, machine code can beat dinoux?!
2:07 PM
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Pip 1.0, full program, 10 bytes: Lai::o+:ii
10 bytes?!
how much shorter can it get?!
2:20 PM
@RedwolfPrograms you changed your name?
I was originally Redwolf, I just changed it to Browncat for cat week :p
@RedwolfPrograms i know
i was asking when
Yesterday, idk :p
@RedwolfPrograms wait you changed it for a couple of weeks
Yeah, I kinda like Browncat
2:22 PM
in Dinoux Room, 11 mins ago, by pVC aecidiospore adduced
This room was placed in timeout for 12 hours; idk
^ as you can see i am bored
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced CJam, 11 bytes: 0X{_@+}ri*;
If a couple things were different about the language, that could easily be 9 bytes.
in Dinoux Room, 3 mins ago, by pVC aecidiospore adduced
i will add parallel execution of functions
^ woo fake parallelism, now dinoux is very powerful
Doesn't sound golfy :p
Don't make a kitchen sink, it's tempting to add all sorts of fancy stuff but a narrow, focused vision will probably give you a better result
@RedwolfPrograms you think the language is golfy?
Oh, is it not meant to a golfing language?
2:36 PM
it is
but i doesnt look like it will beat any other golfing lang
provided 1 goal is to make the language readable
I've said it before, I think some kinds of readability (to a degree) are possible without sacrificing golfiness
Although I don't know if Dinoux is working on those specific types of readability, or other ones
i would need to know those kinds
@RedwolfPrograms do you have a list?
Code page readability, storage/layout rules (tacit, stack based, etc.), and overloads are probably the main three
Things like familiarity and intuitiveness are the hard ones, because unless you use APL/J or Forth as your everyday languages, you probably won't feel comfortable with tacit or stack based for a while
oh shoot i thought i had vim focused
You've saved us all
You're a hero!
2:49 PM
:w would be a neat emoticon
@RedwolfPrograms like what do you think when you see +×÷-&|?
@RedwolfPrograms ▪︎_▪︎
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced I think "I need to go check if this is prefix, postfix, tacit, or stack based" :p
@RedwolfPrograms oof? in general
@AaronMiller what?
2:55 PM
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Vim string compression /s
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Jelly, 7 bytes: Try it online!
@RedwolfPrograms get written muhahaha.
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