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18:00
@Adám Because I discovered the page via a link to that one
@cairdcoinheringaahing Any idea if Axtell's going to be restarted?
@cairdcoinheringaahing Didn't know about community ads?
I knew about community ads, I didn't know about the /ads/display/id page
@user In all likelihood, no, it's dead
:(
Downgoat and Mego haven't contributed to it for years, and there are currently 4 challenges on the site
@Underslash I'd suggest removing the time restriction, it's unlikely that answers will be brute forcing the answer. Some tags for you: , , and if you keep the time restriction
bruteforcing works surprisingly well on it, I just added that in case some answer was trying to do it in an extremely efficient way
I mostly just wanted it to be a "finish in reasonable time" sort of thing, is there a way to specify that without classifying it as `restricted-time`?
Not really ([tag:tag-name] for the markdown fyi)
ah (thanks for the markdown syntax though)
also, i'm not sure it would classify as metagolf specifically because the output should be the same for everyone, but I might be misinterpreting the tag
I suggested metagolf because the output should be as "golfed" as possible, but also works
18:15
ah, I think that might be a good tag for it
it does look like an interesting challenge. I gave it a quick "how easy can I do this in Jelly", and it took enough thought that I gave up (I'll wait until its posted) :)
The %256 definitely makes it much more interesting than if it used an unbounded accumulator
bruteforce solutions might be pretty similar
originally, I made a program for it that brute forced it "smartly", but when I came back to it yesterday I realized you can just plainly bruteforce it
@Underslash don't think that's true
that you can bruteforce it?
18:20
multiple correct outputs may exist for a given value
so not everyone's outputs necessarily must be identical
to output "A" (codepoint 65), +++s-s+o and +++sssso are both optimal
ah, I meant that the output length would be the same, and in the case of the question, both ways are equal
I feel like meta-golf is more related to "try to get the output code as small as possible while ignoring the length of the generating code" though mine doesn't follow that
oh, yeah, i see what you mean. then yeah that's probably true
@hyper-neutrino what's this?
18:30
@StackMeter see this
18:46
> How you use our site and our products will not change in the coming weeks or months
Uh oh.
Let's hope that means 6-8 months.
They'll probably merge SU etc. into SO, as they mentioned they wanted to previously, then simply close down the rest of the network, which, I suspect, makes zero profit.
Mathematics might
How so?
It's bigger than SU IIRC
18:49
So? SO makes profit (ads), and SU can conceivably be merged into SO. Mathemetics cannot.
Put ads on the other SE sites then
Merging SU and SO makes no sense anyway
time to jump ship to codidact?
@RedwolfPrograms Yeah, maybe, but much harder.
I seriously doubt anything will change
I doubt SE is going to shut down the rest of the network. I don't know though. From things I've read I doubt this is really actually going to change much.
18:50
Every source I've seen says they'll just leave is alone
@rak1507 IF they close SE down, then Codidact can simply import everything and the community moves over.
that would be cool
It's fun to think about the worst possible outcome, as rene said in TotM, but it's unlikely the worst outcome will happen.
@hyper-neutrino is or isn't?
@RedwolfPrograms Best outcome?
@Adám To reword: I believe this will not result in a lot of change.
18:51
@hyper-neutrino so how much do we get?
@flawr we probably just get the leftover waffles
We are community run after all, they should pay us some of that
Do it according to rep
I wonder how much total rep there is on the network. Ignoring the initial 1 rep or association bonus, of course.
Somewhere around 1.8b sounds reasonable, so a dollar per rep seems fine IMO
I'll claim my $15k check now, please :p
yeah I have been waiting for ages for the cash-in program
18:54
jon skeet: \o/
Wait, how much network rep do I have...
Apparently around 20k
I'm rich!
ooh does association bonus count?
Yes, so probably closer to 16k for me actually
Obviously we don't get paid for our assoc bonuses
i have around 42k non-association non-initial-1-rep reputation
Mmm, can't wait for my 16k rep
Minus two dollars on MSe
18:58
There is about 1.6b rep on SO, counting the assoc bonii, so 1.8b is actually a pretty reasonable estimate
how did you arrive at that number?
oh nice
18:59
200m for the rest of the whole network. not sure that's accurate
Yeah, so actually probably a bit more than a dollar per rep point
SU has 61m
We can leave the extra for the current owners though
I'm not greedy or anything
server fault has 40m
so just SOFU alone has 1.7B, though this is an overshoot due to assoc and initial 1 rep
@hyper-neutrino SU? stackunderflow?
19:01
Yeah. I'll try to use a more complicated query to roughly filter them out.
@flawr yes superuser
>:-(
Closer to 1.6b when I update it
It removes 1 when the user has under 200 rep, and removes 101 otherwise. Doesn't account for users with the assoc bonus on another site, but still under 200.
I'd guess 1.5 to 1.55 is a reasonable guess for SO
checking other sites might be a bit difficult (if even possible). are you unable to query network profiles?
Imagine if for every upvote SE mailed you ten bucks...I'd contribute a lot more lol
I'd make code golf my full time job
imagine the voting rings if that were a thing
19:07
If you repcapped daily, you could manage a salary of $73k
Not bad
although mailing you $10 would imply knowing your address which would make this possible
SE knows my mailing address.
for swag? or smth else
Yeah.
19:09
heh, can't relate :(
Despite being on the swag list :p
I never used it myself, but my wife wore my SO watch for a while.
But hey, I myself work for a company that has swag items.
oh well, it was posted 5 months ago and they said they were starting with Jan 2019 mods, which is like over 20 months before I was elected, so I'll be quite late on the list
@Adám show off
@Adám Time Overflow :p
19:12
CMP: Would you buy APL swag?
probably not, but I have thought about buying one of aaron hsu's tshirts
Depends on what the swag was, and how much it cost
The above average shirts are cool.
yeah
i'd probably consider buying it only on the basis of it looking cool and being worth by value. i don't use APL so i wouldn't buy it for the reason of APL :p
19:13
@Adám Would you say they're (•_•) / ( •_•)>⌐■-■ / (⌐■_■) above average?
May 27 at 4:02, by caird coinheringaahing
My policy is very clear: if you show me an ad for your services, I will actively make steps to avoid your company as much as I can
I suppose that means paid services.
@cairdcoinheringaahing Ads for free stuff too?
Personally, it;s more "disruptive" ads. Like, if I'm watching a youtube video and you interrupt it with an ad, or if it's on a site that I'm on and it makes browsing it harder
Right. We never do that.
Any product advertised on youtube is probably bad anyway
19:16
@Adám Generally not. I don't think of "ads for free stuff" as ads, more as promotion
@cairdcoinheringaahing Not really. APL swag has been around since forever. My father showed me some infinite paper from a dot-matrix printer which was the receipt for him buying some APL shirts. The interesting things was that the shipping date was the day before the order date.
Nothing strange today. We were in Europe, and the shirts were mailed from America, but this was in the '80s mind you!
The online community was much smaller back then. My father's email address and IM handle was HENRI
Idk if I can believe that, pretty sure that the first email addresses all used @hotmail as their domain :P
there was a time when people had [email protected] adresses:)
:-) HoTMaiL wasn't launched until a couple of decades later.
@Adám Can you have an email address with no @?
19:23
@pxeger Back then, there was no need for a domain. You couldn't send emails to addresses on a different domain.
oh, so it was all intranet?
I guess you'd call it that today.
Things had different names back then.
Today, we talk about "SaaS" and "The Cloud". Back then it was "time-sharing" and "mainframes", but it is the same thing, essentially.
@Adám have you heard about the new APL dialect from italy?
It's called neAPL
:D
19:27
Haha.
...I don't get it
Naples (; Italian: Napoli [ˈnaːpoli] (listen); Neapolitan: Napule [ˈnɑːpələ, ˈnɑːpulə]; Ancient Greek: Νεάπολις, romanized: Neápolis) is the regional capital of Campania and the third-largest city of Italy, after Rome and Milan, with a population of 967,069 within the city's administrative limits as of 2017. Its province-level municipality is the third-most populous metropolitan city in Italy with a population of 3,115,320 residents, and its metropolitan area (that stretches beyond the boundaries of the Metropolitan City of Naples) is the second-most populous metropolitan area in Italy and the...
as in neAPoLitan?
oh, neapolitan
19:34
Speaking of which, this is still in review.
How relevant is that anymore tbh, now that the entire reasons have been changed? It might be worth redoing it for the new reasons
Yeah, I was thinking that too, similar to the bounty thing I reposted and then planned/deferred a while back
BTW, do you have a collab link to something I can go through too? That way we can avoid wasting time reviewing the same items and I can add status tags directly (though you can still flag them to get the helpful flag, if you are inclined :D)
I'm working on a local file, but I'm working "down" this list, so if you go "up", I can let you know when you hit where I've got to :)
Currently around half way through
Ah, okay. I started from the top last night too :P didn't get through too much though
There definitely needs to be a [status-not-necessary] tag. Like [status-declined] but more "Nah" rather than "No"
19:45
how about a [status-please-shut-the-fuck-up] tag, for really irritating questions
It's a little crazy that they have 4 tags for various stages of "This will eventually be fixed", but only one for "no"
especially since more often the answer is "no" than "we're actually working on this" (._.)
There are a surprising number of [status-this-is-because-of-caching] questions tbh :P
sounds about right :P
has anything changed with this? I think this should be declined since using default guess highlighting doesn't work well when most of our submissions aren't in a highlightable language :P
as we have syntax highlighting with the ```lang system
19:54
oh okay, nice.
would this be declined? i could untag feature request but the original (not the dupe target) asks for a feature that wasn't considered/implemented
I don't think it counts as a feature request, as it doesn't really ask for new features. I suppose the auto-counter might be, in which case I think we have a dupe for that
0
Q: Construct a Modulo Multiplication Table

polfosol ఠ_ఠConsider a n x n multiplication table and replace each item with its remainder of division by n. For example, here is a 6x6 table and its "modulo 6" structure: (The last column and row are ignored since both are null) 1 2 3 4 5 6 | 1 2 3 4 5 2 4 6 8 10 12 | 2 4 0 2 4 3 6 9 1...

this answer of mine got 2 upvotes in 6 hours, then 7 more upvotes just in the last 2 hours. Why? It's not on HNQ (currently)
probably having to do with people sorting by votes
@NewPosts formatting :c rip
@cairdcoinheringaahing I beat you by literally 1 second but you beat me by 1 byte :(
*2
20:17
Wow :P
God I hate how just duplicates it in place and doesn't bother to do any chaining
yeah i kinda wish it did an implicit $ or Y= or whatever
15 bytes :P
16, but some nice chaining :P
this must be one of the few times G is useful :P
@hyper-neutrino Noticed the lack of selfie as soon as you commented :P
20:30
Plus we're tied now :P
the first four bytes of our solutions are identical lol
Well, I did "borrow" it from yours, just waited to finish golfing before crediting :P
interesting that we both started at around the same bytecount, saw each other's approaches, stole them to golf our own, and ended up with tied but still distinct solutions :D
lol this is impressive
waiting for bubbler/jonathan to drop a like 8 byter on both of us
20:32
And Unrelated just psoted a 16 byte version that's completely different :p
which will hopefully also become 14 bytes soon :P
oh, a product table using <? interesting
Looks like a bunch of little tornadoes
20:38
Try increasing the number, they get bigger :P
If you set it to 20 and scroll down it feels like you're accidentally scrolling sideways too
Also, I'd like to know what point-free programming is
idk, seems pretty pointless to me
@cairdcoinheringaahing I do like it when I can properly use ɓ in a Jelly answer
@StackMeter essentially functions don't specify their arguments ("points") to which they apply but rather putting functions together composes them into new functions (tacit programming)
20:43
@StackMeter Haskell's version of "tacit" programming, where you don't refer to the arguments, you just compose the functions
for example, if you want to make a function that adds the first number to half of itself, you would do x => x + (x / 2) in a pointful(?) notation, but in Jelly for example, you just do +H which composes "add two numbers" and "halve" into a new function doing the same thing
interestingly, pointfree notation in haskell uses . lol
@StackMeter wikipedia
@hyper-neutrino And, in Haskell, I believe you do (+).(/2)
@hyper-neutrino afaict that seems to be compose with what I've heard
20:45
So...point free requires using a point (.)? :p
actually, I wanted to know what (<*>) was in point-free
@cairdcoinheringaahing no, that's the same as (+ (x/2))
@StackMeter you've picked the tough one :D
@StackMeter That's nothing in generic point-free, but something specific to Haskell
for whatever reason. (/2) in Proton does 2 / x and (2/) does x / 2
20:46
@Wezl Which is x+(x/2) no?
@cairdcoinheringaahing no it's currying, so it's the same as y=> y+(x/2)
ok, what is it in Haskell
I'm not sure, function composition < trains
19
A: need to know what <*> <$> and . do in haskell

MarcoSI am also learning Haskell, and my recommendation is to have a look into Learn You a Haskell for Great Good!, and more precisely: for (.) read Function composition for <$> and <*> read Applicative functors In essence: (.) is function composition: if you have g :: a -> b and f :: b -> c then...

20:49
@cairdcoinheringaahing Charcoal, Filter(q, Minus(i, h)) (5 bytes succinct) given a suitable I/O format
that doesn't really explain it for functions (or it does, but it won't be easy to understand)
(f<*>g) x is f x (g x)
it's the S combinator if that means anything to you
Python function: def s(a, b): return s[:b] + s[b+1:]
@StackMeter with lists as an example, I think <*> takes a list of functions and a list of arguments, and applies the functions to the arguments. But it's extensible to other applicable functors
ok
@Neil neil did you see the python answer
yes, why?
20:52
doesn't S take three values?
oh wait nvm i'm dumb, the third value is the x. idk how i missed that
S = x z (y z)
idk how just Ss halt sometimes: surely SSS goes to SSSS goes to SSSSSSSSSS and so on?
If you choose the wrong functions, yes
@Wezl not looking too likely :/
ok then try for 13 :P
that i can try
20:56
SSSS becomes SS(SS) which doesn't really reduce down i think?
not immediately at least
SII(SII) is an infinite loop
i think it's easier to get infinite loops using Y but if we're just using SKI then ^
is there a shorter one?
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

knosmosSalvage My Chemistry Homework Introduction I pulled an all-nighter yesterday doing my Chemistry homework. However, I now realize that was a terrible idea, because my handwriting was too sloppy and now I can’t distinguish the capital letters from the lowercase letters in my chemical formulas! This...

@Neil what does SII(SII) does
The SKI combinator calculus is a combinatory logic, a computational system that may be perceived as a reduced version of the untyped lambda calculus. It can be thought of as a computer programming language, though it is not convenient for writing software. Instead, it is important in the mathematical theory of algorithms because it is an extremely simple Turing complete language. It was introduced by Moses Schönfinkel and Haskell Curry.All operations in lambda calculus can be encoded via abstraction elimination into the SKI calculus as binary trees whose leaves are one of the three symbols S, K...
21:05
@StackMeter SII(SII) is I(SII)(I(SII)) which is SII(I(SII)) which is SII(SII) and therefore evaluation enters an infinite loop
@Wezl Function composition + combinators ~= trains
>trains, actually
@rak1507 Doing calculus while skiing, that sounds painful
21:29
@hyper-neutrino Would you and the other mods prefer me to raise "please status this" flags in groups of 2/3 a day, or all at once and you can deal with them if/when you want?
@hyper-neutrino i see
@cairdcoinheringaahing I can't speak for the others, but it doesn't make much of a difference to me, so it's probably fine to flag them all as you get through them just to make it easier for you to keep track of your progress. It'll increase our site's handling time but whatever :P
I've been accepted
let's go
@hyper-neutrino so if I were to replace the Is with Ss, I would get an infinite loop??
@StackMeter SSS(SSS) => S(SSS)(S(SSS)) which doesn't reduce down further
Considering adding an option to GRT to make a ping noise when an item enters the queues. Onions or suggestions?
21:35
can't we apply the S to the (SSS)(S(SSS))?
@RedwolfPrograms Onions are quite nice; what type do you have in mind?
That was supposed to be "opinions" :p
@StackMeter no, S needs three items to reduce
@RedwolfPrograms I wouldn't mind this
21:37
S x y z reduces to x z (y z)
So SSSS(SSSS)
then
technically speaking S is defined as \x. \y. \z. x z (y z)
and that works as an infinite loop, does it not?
so S x is \y. \z. x z (y z) which isn't really that useful over S x
@StackMeter SSSS(SSSS) => SS(SS)(SSSS) => S(SSSS)(SS(SSSS)) so still no loop
21:38
Considering SO's chat ping noise, but a bit lower pitched
OK
so 2 S sets don't work
i don't think you can get infinite loops with S
because as it expands out it reduces the number of arguments to each S until there aren't enough to continue substituting
you need something like I so it can get rid of the brackets and reintroduce more arguments (bad explanation but whatever)
21:40
or just Y. Y is really easy to get infinite loops with
So S always halts
YI => I(YI) => YI
it's not exactly accurate to say whether or not a combinator halts, more that substitution into SKI+Y will not enter an infinite cycle if you just have S (citation needed though; it might be possible, don't take my word for it)
I pitched the SO chat ping down by one octave, how does it sound?
You pitched it down? Isn't that up?
It's lower pitch
That'd be down I think
21:43
can someone ping me
@rak1507 Okay
can you do it again
so != se btw
@rak1507 No
ping me too
21:43
it sounds like it's up a perfect 5th to me
not down an octave
The SO one is different
ohh ok

 Sandbox

Where you can play with regular chat features (except flagging...
@RedwolfPrograms mind pinging me so I can check
Do it on SO, it's different
21:44
@RedwolfPrograms What about the chat.meta ping by one octave lower?
SE chat ping sound is different
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'll try that one, just a sec
@hyper-neutrino Can mods edit the close reasons?
Wait, the meta chat ping used to be different
yep, down an octave :)
21:44
It's titled meta2.mp3
weird that the pings are different
Like, the text themselves, not the reason for a specific question
TBH just make it customizeable and I'll be happy, lol
Wait, but meta.mp3 sounds almost identical, oddly
@RedwolfPrograms Rickroll. I will not accept anything else
21:45
@cairdcoinheringaahing not easily; I think requesting a CM to do it is the best way to go about it
youtube.com/watch?v=nIs3jechQ_E @RedwolfPrograms now make a bunch at different octaves and then with synchronised playing you can play this!
(not a rickroll)
I think I did it wrong: redwolfprograms.com/grt2.mp3
That sounds much more high pitched
yea that doesn't sound right lol
I like my modded SO one, I'll just stick with that
22:05
Generic Review Tool 1.1.0: Adds support for pings
I look forward to jumping out of my skin the next time a review task appears :p
Make sure to set SOUND_NOTIFS to true
Wait I had the wrong one posted for a second anyway, so instead of setting SOUND_NOTIFS to true you might need to set UPDATE_INTERVAL back to 40000
(I use a 20s interval for testing to speed things up, but I don't recommend it for daily usage)
So change it back to 40000 or 20000?
22:12
More caird + redwolf + ♦ :P
I'm excited for a review task, I want to hear the ping noise :p
If you get impatient:
var ping = () => {
    var audio = new Audio();

    audio.src = "https://github.com/RedwolfPrograms/userscripts/blob/main/resources/grt.mp3?raw=true";
    audio.play();
};
Then you can run ping() at any time to hear the ping sound :p
22:30
We have far too many open dupe questions on meta
Um, I'm not seeing what makes that a duplicate
It seems to be a proposal to rule a type of question that currently appears to be on-topic ( referencing specific code) off-topic
The "How could the default close reasons be improved" question is a "collection" post for new close reasons/changes to existing close reasons, which this is
That's specifically asking for a new close reason for "Golf this code for me" questions, rather than using "Unclear"/"Off-topic"
meta is weird because questions can be closed as a duplicate because it belongs as an answer, which isn't really a thing on main, lol
i agree though, this is a close reason proposal not a ruling; everyone agrees that question was bad, but the point was whether or not to add that as a close reason
and i agree that we don't need it
i can only add 3 custom reasons anyway and we already have 2 in use
"Golf this code for me" isn't off-topic if done well
If it's more "help me golf this code"
Having a close reason for that would just add to the confusion around
Same way that "Write some code" isn't off-topic on SO if it's "Help me fix the bug in this code" :P
22:43
I see my 7 year old meta post is getting attention
Hey Rainbolt, welcome back!
Thanks
At the time we didn't allow challenges where the solution was already given and the only remaining challenge was to golf it
We closed them as unclear. That reason never made sense to me, but I learned that custom close reasons are a limited resource.
TBF, I'd close a lot of them as unclear now, under our current standards. Posting code and saying "golf this for me" doesn't provide the necessary information (e.g. what's the actual task? How is the input/output formatted? Are we allowed to use libraries? etc.)
There can be good ones, though
Specific challenges should contain, more or less, the same information as a normal challenge
22:55
oh hi @Rainbolt, haven't seen you around here

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