The Nineteenth Byte

AdmBorkBork

20:00

I like how Jelly was the example language, even though other languages also have a custom code page.

Okx

it has 2 fibs and 2 * 4 is 8, which has a square root of ~2.82

Step Hen

@MDXF You have a way to translate binary to your encoding and back again

MD XF

Jelly is the most popular among us

@StepHen >.< can't I just pretend? :P

Step Hen

@MDXF you have to have a raw binary file that has the number of bytes you say

HyperNeutrino

@Okx 2 and 5 are fibonacci numbers, the length of the list is 4, so it's 2 * 4 = 8 is a fibonacci number

Okx

20:00

8 is not a square number

AdmBorkBork

@MDXF Basically, what you need to do is have the compiler/interpreter/whatever take in raw binary, and then designate that 00000000 means blah, 00000001 means foo, 00000010 means bar, etc.

Okx

that's what you specified

totallyhuman

Huh

MD XF

@StepHen Lame. So could I just add a translator that, e.g., transforms \u1234 into ASCII 2?

AdmBorkBork

The rules here is there has to be an interpreter that can read the code as-is

Business Cat

20:01

@Mr.Xcoder Is not -1 not composite?

Step Hen

@MDXF pretty much, and then when it reads 00000010 it does what you want

@BusinessCat -1 should be composite

MD XF

@StepHen Okay cool, that's a lot less work than I imagined

Business Cat

0 and 1 are definitely not composite though

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat It is. My Pyth answer is invalid o_O

Business Cat

It is composite or it is not composite?

Mr. Xcoder

20:03

@BusinessCat -1 is composite

Business Cat

(I really shouldn't ask questions with negation)

Step Hen

15

A: What is a character encoding, exactly?

Character encodings are just a convenience to make programs more readable if they make use of more than the usual 97 ASCII bytes (printable, plus linefeeds and tabs). At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is there must be an actual file with the claimed byte count that, when fed to y...

Business Cat

So the only non-prime numbers that should also be removed are 0 and 1?

Mr. Xcoder

Don't: Don't use negation in questions.

@BusinessCat Yep

Business Cat

Don't: Not avoid not using no negations in questions

MD XF

20:05

@StepHen Cool. So now I have to make my language "compiled" :I

Step Hen

@MDXF ?

AdmBorkBork

Why?

Business Cat

@Mr.Xcoder Gaia, 6 bytes: ṗ⁈0₁,⁻

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat Does it handle negatives?

MD XF

So that "At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is there must be an actual file with the claimed byte count that, when fed to your interpreter, runs the intended program"

Business Cat

20:06

Wait is it supposed to remove negative primes?

MD XF

So, source-file-with-unicode.txt | fake-compiler | interpreter

Business Cat

VTC as unclear

totallyhuman

no

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat No, they're composite

Step Hen

@BusinessCat I would consider them composite

Business Cat

20:07

Gaia doesn't consider any negative number prime

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat It's not unclear

totallyhuman

compiling has nothing to do with code pages

Business Cat

OK then it's fine

AdmBorkBork

@MDXF no, the source file doesn't have Unicode

Business Cat

It filters out primes then removes 1's and 0's

MD XF

20:07

I'm confused, I thought I could translate Unicode to raw ASCII and call it good

Step Hen

@AdmBorkBork He's saying the output of fake-compiler is in raw ASCII

MD XF

@StepHen yes that

Mr. Xcoder

There are no prime negative numbers, except for -1

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder hmm, I wouldn't quite make that claim

Mr. Xcoder

@StepHen Why?

Business Cat

20:08

@Mr.Xcoder But you said -1 was composite earlier...

MD XF

@StepHen Why?

AdmBorkBork

@StepHen No, that's not how a code page works

MD XF

@AdmBorkBork Then screw the code page. Would I be allowed to do that?

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat I didn't specifically refer to -1, sorry

Business Cat

So it should remove -1

MD XF

20:09

'cause shortC and Forked and Triangular ran out of characters, but I still want to implement more things

Step Hen

@AdmBorkBork It can be, that would be implementation

Okx

CMC: Given two lists, concatenate them (would like to see solutions in practical languages) ie [2 5] [6 1] -> [2 5 6 1]

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat Ignore my CMC

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder For some definitions of prime numbers, they must be > 1

Business Cat

@Okx Python: +

Okx

20:10

cheat

Step Hen

@BusinessCat lambda a,b:a+b (I think)

Mr. Xcoder

@Okx +QE

totallyhuman

list.__add__

Business Cat

@StepHen Yeah that would be the proper one

Step Hen

@totallyhuman that works too

AdmBorkBork

20:10

@StepHen You'd need to claim "fake compiler + interpreter" as the language, then, not just "interpreter"

At which point, you're back to counting the raw bytes of the Unicode-enabled source file, and so you haven't saved any bytes.

totallyhuman

@StepHen and is golfier :P

Step Hen

@AdmBorkBork the fake compiler is just a helpful program to convert. How else does Jelly take Unicode and save it? with a program...

The fake compiler converts unicode to where it is mapped on the code page, right?

So that you have a binary file to give to the interpreter, with the correct bytecount

AdmBorkBork

OK, yes, then the binary file has the correct byte-count for scoring.

Sorry for misunderstanding.

DJMcMayhem

@Okx One byte in Vim: J

Business Cat

@Okx Ok then Racket, 6 bytes: append

Okx

20:13

the builtins

someone do it in java

Mr. Xcoder

@Okx Swift, way too many bytes: func f(n:[Int],m:[Int]){print(n+m)}

Okx

yay xD

DJMcMayhem

Mine's not a builtin. It's just a clever use of vim's functionality

It actually has no list support

Mr. Xcoder

@Okx Wanted practical language, you got practical language

Adám

@Okx APL, J, K, Q: ,

Okx

20:15

okay then i give up

Mr. Xcoder

Polyglot...

Easy CMC: Given two lists of the same lengths, group their corresponding elements (like zip)

[1,2], [3,4] -> [[1,3],[2,4]]

totallyhuman

zip

probably a polyglot

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman So creative

totallyhuman

yes i am very good at this

Mr. Xcoder

Pyth outgolfs everybody: C

Step Hen

20:18

Jun 28 at 17:01, by Dennis

@StephenS Unless your text editor happens to support Jelly's code page (which is extremely unlikely), you can only craft non-Unicode Jelly source code by hand or using your own converter.

Here we go, this is where I'm getting this info (had to find it, sorry), I had a discussion similar to this with Dennis a while back, when I was a lot less informed

AdmBorkBork

Yes, I was misunderstanding which file was being counted for the byte-count

I'm with you, now

Mr. Xcoder

I didn't think of adding a zip to Cthulhu, so the answer to my own CMC would be looong

totallyhuman

Jelly, 1 byte: Z

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman Tied

Okx

@Mr.Xcoder Neim, 0 bytes jk

Mr. Xcoder

20:20

@Okx Don't believe you, sorry

Okx

neim is incapable of lists with more than 1 dimension

Mr. Xcoder

@Okx List of tuples?

DJMcMayhem

@Mr.Xcoder # [V], 13 bytes ò<C-v>iwjldGo<esc>pJH

Okx

tuples?

DJMcMayhem

Woopsies

Mr. Xcoder

20:20

@Okx (1, 3)

Okx

how are they different from lists?

totallyhuman

why would golflangs have tuples :P

Mr. Xcoder

key-value pairs?

@totallyhuman Pyth has

totallyhuman

well that's because pyth is golfy python

Step Hen

@Okx They are immutable

Mr. Xcoder

20:21

They're very useful

Okx

don't see the point of that

Mr. Xcoder

268

Q: python: list vs tuple, when to use each?

In Python, when should you use lists and when tuples? Sometimes you don't have a choice, for example if you have "hello %s you are %s years old" % x then x must be a tuple. But if I am the one who designs the API and gets to choose the data types, then what are the guidelines?

Step Hen

@Okx What's the point of strings then, when you can just have lists of characters? :P

Mr. Xcoder

Ignore the python: in front

totallyhuman

@Mr.Xcoder why'd you link to the dupe?

Mr. Xcoder

20:23

@totallyhuman I like that one more

mınxomaτ

How Java looks, if you built a math-syntax DSL extension for it.

Mr. Xcoder

684

Q: What's the difference between lists and tuples?

What's the difference? What are the advantages / disadvantages of tuples / lists?

python list tuples

totallyhuman

if tuples are more efficient i should probably use it for sequences in my oeis library

Okx

@mınxomaτ downvoted is not portable

Step Hen

@totallyhuman They are a lot more efficient, but remember that they are immutable, so once you build them, you can't modify them

totallyhuman

20:26

Exactly

mınxomaτ

@Okx It's pretty portable

totallyhuman

I don't need to modify them

Okx

you need an extension

to see it

mınxomaτ

It's a projection. You can also use a textual projection, the code generator doesn't really care.

As it's not parsing anything.

Leaky Nun

@totallyhuman how do you plan to use them?

Mr. Xcoder

20:33

> later

Maybe now @LeakyNun ?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder I'm about to sleep

totallyhuman

@LeakyNun what do you mean?

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Me too

Bruce Forte

@DJMcMayhem Nice one - the vim challenge!

Can you help me with getting a working V TIO?

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Wait, what's the time there (just curious about the time zone)? It's 23:35 HERE

DJMcMayhem

20:35

@BruceForte I'm glad you like it! :)

What exactly do you need help with?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder it's 4:36 here

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun AM?

Leaky Nun

yes, bye

Mr. Xcoder

HONG-KONG?

MD XF

Oh hey BruceForte's name reminds me... are there any existing tools to brute-force Brainf**k?

totallyhuman

20:36

Bye

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder yes

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun BYE

Step Hen

@LeakyNun I'm across the world from you :P

totallyhuman

@Mr.Xcoder uhh caps lock?

MD XF

@StepHen I live on the same planet as you :P

Mr. Xcoder

20:37

@totallyhuman IT'S STUCK, DUNNO WHY

MD XF

@Mr.Xcoder then press shift...

totallyhuman

Oh boy

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder try shift with caps lock

MD XF

@StepHen ninja'd

Mr. Xcoder

@MDXF I'M USING A MAC, SHIFT HAS NO EFFECT WITH CAPS LOCK

Step Hen

20:38

@Mr.Xcoder bummer

totallyhuman

Oh that's ridiculous

MD XF

@Mr.Xcoder Then follow the two basic IT steps

Mr. Xcoder

Fixed.

MD XF

1 - "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

2- "kick it, mom! that always works on TV!"

Bruce Forte

@DJMcMayhem When I have xxxi I'm in insert mode, how can I do <C-r> (yes, I cracked it ;))?

DJMcMayhem

20:39

Awww. I'm gonna need to step up my game :)

@BruceForte You could use this character: '', or <C-r> in verbose mode

→ 5 messages moved to Trash

→ 2 messages moved to Trash

MD XF

Oh boy

DJMcMayhem

Enough eyes and faces and boxes and stuff

Bruce Forte

@DJMcMayhem Maybe, but it was fun :)

I'll try that, one moment

MD XF

@DJMcMayhem boxes?

DJMcMayhem

The gigantic onebox

Poke

20:41

@MDXF welcome back?

Step Hen

@DJMcMayhem Sowwy

MD XF

@Poke Yup (for a week) :D

Mr. Xcoder

CMC: positive n -> n! - n

DJMcMayhem

@BruceForte I'ma actually very pleasantly surprised that shows up in chat

Poke

@MDXF pshaw only a week?

Step Hen

20:42

@Mr.Xcoder cQuents: #|1:f(A)-A I think

@Mr.Xcoder Again, I need a mode that shorthands #|1:

Bruce Forte

@DJMcMayhem At my end it doesn't, but it works on TIO

cheers!

AdmBorkBork

@Mr.Xcoder Test case?

Wheat Wizard

Would a version of this challenge with circular Braids be interesting?

totallyhuman

,,,, 4 bytes: :!⇆-

Mr. Xcoder

3 -> (factorial: 6) -> 3

MD XF

20:43

53 mins ago, by MD XF

ok I've got a week off of work and I want to make the best of it, i.e. waste it all on code golf. Any new challenges to answer in my esolangs?

Mr. Xcoder

Pyth, 3 bytes: -.!

Step Hen

@DJMcMayhem you know what the best way to win your challenge is? Find a language that is thought to be impossible to add in, figure out how to add in it, then post the emtpy string as your snippet

Poke

@MDXF how is the new job going

Mr. Xcoder

4 -> (factorial: 24) -> 20

DJMcMayhem

@BruceForte Would you post a cop? I'd love to try my hand at cracking it. And clearly you know enough obscure vim

Mr. Xcoder

20:44

1 -> (factorial: 1) -> 0

musicman523

@LeakyNun Trying to factor primes like: no more memory and swap space for me

MD XF

@Poke Really great, I could likely spend time on code golf if I wanted to

Poke

What do you do at your new job

MD XF

Job-wise, I love it, much better than the previous. Time-wise, I have more time on my hands than I expected, but I don't want distractions

Bruce Forte

Phuu, I would have no idea - sorry.

MD XF

20:45

Senior software developer

AdmBorkBork

PowerShell in 31 bytes -- param($n)($n..1-join'*'|iex)-$n ... I don't think there's a shorter way to factorial

Poke

@MDXF well that's vague ;)

Step Hen

OK wth did I do to my interpreter

MD XF

If you haven't noticed I like to keep my identity mine on SE :P

Wheat Wizard

2 mins ago, by Wheat Wizard

Would a version of this challenge with circular Braids be interesting?

Step Hen

20:46

For some reason #|1:f(A))-A works but #|1:f(A)-A outputs 1

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fake divisor sum polyglots code-golf sequence polyglot The task In this challenge, your task is to write a program in a programming language L that takes a positive integer n, and outputs the sum of the proper divisors of n (sequence A001065 on OEIS). It should return the correct output for ...

Mr. Xcoder

I relly abuse pyth's implicit input. It should be -.!QQ instead, but -.!

Bye!

Poke

@MDXF i can appreciate that

MD XF

@Poke IIRC... all anyone knows about me is that I'm a developer, male, and I don't have a life. oh and that my name's Aaron Ryan with three more names I'm mostly embarrassed of

Poke

hey me too

Step Hen

20:47

@MDXF ... and I believe your full name and location?

MD XF

@StepHen location? Oh I just picked something random

totallyhuman

@Poke :o your name is aaron ryan too?

musicman523

@MDXF Aaron Julio Ricardo Montoya De La Rosa Ryan?

MD XF

@totallyhuman I edited after he said that

@musicman523 heh I wish. Nah, one of them's a girl name, one means something really weird in German, and another one isn't really a name

Poke

@totallyhuman yeah but i spell it with 3 a's

Step Hen

20:49

@Poke It already has three a's

@Poke AAron ryAn

MD XF

@StepHen he means aaaron. Probably

Poke

@StepHen i regretted that as soon as i said it

@MDXF actually meant ryaaan

;)

MD XF

ಠ_ಠ this conversation is going nowhere

Step Hen

@MDXF google.com/mymaps/viewer?mid=1E...hl=en_US

MD XF

Well, it might be going to the trash

@StepHen ~~Seven~~ twelve redirects later it's still loading

totallyhuman

20:51

@MDXF ik i was jk

AdmBorkBork

A-a-ron

totallyhuman

^^ that must be my most horrible sentence ever

MD XF

@AdmBorkBork When I was younger and people asked what my name was I'd say "double-a ron"

AdmBorkBork

I was going for a Key and Peele skit

substitute teacher

Step Hen

I personally prefer "an aron" as it is both grammatically correct and pokemon

totallyhuman

20:54

><>

MD XF

@StepHen I don't get it, the bridge clearly connects two trails

Step Hen

@MDXF I just searched for "google maps nowhere" and that came up, then Google wanted me to login and I didn't, so sorry if it was disappointing

MD XF

@StepHen Oh hah that works

@StepHen lh3.ggpht.com/__zoKJ77EvEc/TYYeJN6Y8jI/AAAAAAAAMZw/m2sA5iTttIk/…

@StepHen vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/wikiality/images/3/3f/…

AdmBorkBork

that first one is a clever optical illusion

MD XF

Yeah I need a life, see y'all later o/

AdmBorkBork

20:59

Also outta here. Seeya, folks!

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