The Nineteenth Byte

Business Cat

17:00

What about a longer even-length string: evenlength

HyperNeutrino

And a -> (a)?

DJMcMayhem

Yes. And input will not be empty

HyperNeutrino

(e[v(e[n(le)n]g)t]h)?

Zachary T

@DJMcMayhem This should be a main challenge, to be honest.

Business Cat

That's what I assume

Dennis

17:01

@StephenS Unless your text editor happens to support Jelly's code page (which is extremely unlikely), you can only craft non-Unicode Jelly source code by hand or using your own converter.

DJMcMayhem

@HyperNeutrino The input may be even or odd length, but that is a correct output for an even length input

HyperNeutrino

ah ok

DJMcMayhem

@ZacharyT I'd love a better description. It's kinda hard to explain TBH

HyperNeutrino

Python, 81 bytes

s=lambda S,b:'(['[b]+S[0]+s(S[1:-1],1-b)+(S[-1]if S[1:]else'')+')]'[b]if S else''

DJMcMayhem

But I could do a fun title like (F[u(n[ (w[i(th[ (b)r]a)c]k)e]t)s]!)

HyperNeutrino

17:03

anyway gtg now

Zachary T

But, you'd be contradicting yourself. th

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis golfed

STDIN version

another golf

totallyhuman

second answer in my language and it involves bitwise manipulation >_>

Zachary T

So, how many of you are creating/created a golf-lang? I'm curious

Stephen S

@Dennis Hm, thanks. So TIO just counts the Unicode chars from the codepage, and knows that they are single bytes? And if you actually want to save a file for Jelly to read as single bytes, you'd have to do it "manually". OK.

Business Cat

17:17

I'm working on one

Zachary T

And what languages did you base it off of/get inspired from?

Stephen S

@ZacharyT I'm working on a lang that's non-verbose, I wouldn't call it a golfing lang yet

totallyhuman

i'm also making one

Stephen S

@ZacharyT Mine isn't based off any other languages, AFAIK, it's based on mathematical sequences and patterns and the like

Zachary T

Link?

Business Cat

17:20

Since I can't edit my old post: WIP lang

Stephen S

@ZacharyT cQuents

Zachary T

So, it's very loosely like Oasis?

Business Cat

But it already has much better docs than Oasis.

Zachary T

Lol.

I might make an esolang based solely off of OEIS. Lol.

(In a long time)

totallyhuman

i think that's in the works actually

Stephen S

17:24

@ZacharyT Uh I dunno Oasis, but looking at its docs I guess so, mine is slower, more powerful, and more verbose I think

For example, mine can take input, beyond just n xD

@ZacharyT Yeah, someone asked a meta question, about downloading OEIS and then having the OEIS number be the input

Zachary T

o_o, first Ruby-hack-language-thing (J-uby), now OEIS language? Seriously? Are all the ideas taken?

Link to the meta question?

Stephen S

@ZacharyT In the end, though, I'd love for cQuents to be able to calculate lots of different OEIS sequences

Business Cat

I haven't looked at it in much depth but it looks cool

Stephen S

3

Q: Question about the validity of a potential esolang

If I were to implement an esolang that uses a cached version of OEIS (one that doesn't fetch from the internet) would it be valid? For instance, if I were to scrape OEIS and grab the mathematical formula, then tie that formula to the integer assigned to the sequence and use that as my esolang, is...

discussion

@BusinessCat It's still like 5% done

Business Cat

Hmmm. Would a function to reverse a number be of any use

Like, put the digits in reverse order

Stephen S

17:28

@BusinessCat Probably, I'm still planning my functions :P thanks for the idea

Zachary T

I had that idea too (same command as array/string reverse)

Business Cat

I have a lot of overloading in mine, and debating if the arithmetic negation for numbers should reverse strings/lists, or should reverse work for all 3 types

Zachary T

The latter, that way you could have negation map over an array.

Stephen S

@BusinessCat How hard is it to convert nums to string and back? Because that's what you're doing if you use it for ints

Zachary T

Two extra bytes.

Business Cat

17:31

Well it'd be at least three bytes: (cast to string)(reverse)(eval/cast to int)

Except that wouldn't work for negative numbers, so yeah I think I'll have the function reverse numbers

But then how do you reverse if it has a decimal?

Stephen S

@BusinessCat What about floats? Flip the . or keep it?

ninjad

Business Cat

I could just have an implicit truncation. Lots of operators that need ints specifically do that

Zachary T

You could do -123 => 0-123 => 321-0 => 321

Stephen S

Or you could choose between 123.4 -> 432.1 or 123.4 -> 4.321

Zachary T

Okay, what should indexing be based off of? Prepares for debate

Business Cat

17:34

I'm a firm believer in 1-indexing these days

Stephen S

@ZacharyT I'm using sequences, so 1 all the way

Zachary T

I'm debating whether to go Dyalog-style and use 0 or 1. (1 default)

Stephen S

@ZacharyT that's probably the best

Business Cat

I think 1 is more convenient in general

Zachary T

Heck, I might make it so ANY integer can be the index origin.

Stephen S

17:36

@ZacharyT -1 indexed would throw everyone for a loop

Business Cat

More convenient for golfing I should say

Stephen S

@ZacharyT What happens when your index is INT_MAX - 2?

@ZacharyT Oh wait you're in Python, right? nvm

Zachary T

I was just about to say that.

Stewie Griffin

Common matrix / list of list input formats? Python/Haskell/Javascript etc: [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]], Mathematica/Java/C etc: {{1,2,3},{4,5,6}}, MATLAB/Octave: [1,2,3;4,5,6] or [1 2 3;4 5 6]. Am I forgetting some (only conventional languages)?

dzaima

@ZacharyT 1-indexed because then an index of 0 could be classified as none (so falsy)

Zachary T

17:37

@StewieGriffin What do you define as "conventional"?

totallyhuman

@ZacharyT you can edit messages, you know that right?

Stewie Griffin

@ZacharyT somewhat arbitrary definition... It should have more than 10000 questions on SO at least...

Business Cat

@dzaima Yeah, I hate when the not found is -1 because -1 is truthy

For a find index function that is

Stephen S

@BusinessCat ~indexOf is contains in JS

dzaima

that's 1 byte wasted

Stewie Griffin

17:39

@ZacharyT it doesn't really matter how conventional it is... Are there other relatively common input types?

Zachary T

Oh, you said list of lists.

Stewie Griffin

@ZacharyT Yes, since many languages don't have matrices...

Stephen S

@StewieGriffin Probably the first format but with parens for some language out there

Zachary T

Yeah, there's the APL list of lists (not used): (1 2 3)(4 5 6)

Business Cat

In CJam to do contains you need to either do #) or e= which is gross. Could be just # if it was 1-indexed

Zachary T

17:40

And then Matrix: ↑(1 2 3)(4 5 6)

Stewie Griffin

@ZacharyT Yes, I found that one too in an old challenge. Why do you say it's not used?

Zachary T

APL's got matrices that are distinct from lists of lists.

Stewie Griffin

Ok :)

Business Cat

The only weird thing about 1-indexing is when lists are also modular, then index 0 is the last element

dzaima

but that can also save bytes

Business Cat

17:44

Yeah, but it's intuitively weird

dzaima

who cares about intuition, this is Code Golf

Zachary T

If I went about adding both, should I have two dyadic commands (one for 0-based and one for 1-based), or should I have a monadic command to set the index origin?

DJMcMayhem

@ZacharyT status-complete

Downgoat

Has anyone seen ASCII-only around recently

Zachary T

Yeah, I'll pass on that challenge.

Nope.

DJMcMayhem

17:46

Any particular reason why?

totallyhuman

looks at challenge

it seems harder than it looks

Zachary T

^

totallyhuman

not that that should stop you :P

Zachary T

And you people are going to Jelly/05AB1E/Pyth/CJam/Actually/Seriously the crap out of that challenge

Business Cat

It's very annoying that the code points ( and ) are 1 apart but [ and ] are 2 apart

Zachary T

17:49

[|]

DJMcMayhem

@BusinessCat ugh, I know

Zachary T

Is | between [ and ]?

Business Cat

`\` is

I hate markdown.

DJMcMayhem

→ 9 messages moved to Sandbox

Zachary T

Yep, that's the kind of message that belongs in Sandbox

Adám

17:53

@ZacharyT Why? It certainly is used.

Zachary T

I meant it's not used as an array.

It's used for sure

totallyhuman

@ZacharyT that still shouldn't stop you

Adám

@ZacharyT I say 1, and let the -1 be the last element. 0 indexing can then be used for something special. Also, if you need to insert or indicate that something goes before the first element, you can use position 0. Position -1 would be strange and prevent from-end indexing.

@ZacharyT Define array.

Zachary T

...

Stephen S

Is there a tag for ASCII input, or ASCII input processing?

Business Cat

17:57

Well I did it in 95 bytes in Python, but somehow feels too long

Adám

@Uriel That page claims Befunge was the first 2D language. HAL/S preceded it by 20 years.

Stephen S

Because if @NewSandboxPosts will hurry up I'd use one

totallyhuman

ey i haz upvote

Stephen S

@Adám Was HAL/S really a true 2D language though? At least the way we currently think about them

Business Cat

If I make a Python answer as a lambda, does it have to be the only thing in the code? i.e. could it have some assignments beforehand or not

Stephen S

18:00

@BusinessCat I believe you have to also call the function if you do that

@BusinessCat Can you do default function parameters in Python, like you can in JS? that's how you do it in JS

Business Cat

I can make default parameters so I guess

totallyhuman

@BusinessCat yes it can

but default parameters might be more golfy

Business Cat

Eh, nvm that doesn't make it shorter anyway

Zachary T

Oh, should I add a one-byte command to duplicate the item on the top of the stack?

Business Cat

That's pretty important

Zachary T

18:04

Swap two top items?

Business Cat

That too

dzaima

yes

Adám

@StephenS It doesn't navigate in 2D, but a single statement can span any number of lines.

Zachary T

o_o. Then Befunge came first

dzaima

then rotate top 3, swap 2nd & 3rd, duplicate 2nd, 3rd and so on

Business Cat

18:05

Well ovs just posted it in 70 bytes

Looks pretty similar to what I had, at least the first half

Zachary T

Okay, I got a good idea, let's just shove all of those in the triads, because I have no clue what most of those bytes will be.

Phoenix

>_<
I can't get explorer.exe to start

Zachary T

Rest in piece windows user.

Phoenix

I can open anything using Task Manager -> Run New Task

but not explorer.exe

So no taskbar or desktop

Zachary T

Try start explorer.exe in command prompt.

New Main Posts

18:08

6

Q: (A[l(t[e(r)n]e)s]t) a string!

Alternesting, is the act of taking a string and nesting it in alternating brackets. Here is how you alternest a string. For a string of length N, take the center N characters, and surround them in parenthesis. So if our string was Hello world! (12 characters), we'll end up with (Hello world!) ...

code-golf string balanced-string

Zachary T

Assuming you can open that

dzaima

@Phoenix what windows version?

Phoenix

@ZacharyT A window titled "Personalized Settings" appears for a split second.

DJMcMayhem

@NewMainPosts Good job! Only thirty minutes behind!

Phoenix

@dzaima 10

dzaima

18:10

why wasn't it started in the first place?

Phoenix

No idea

I just restarted and found a black screen with cursor working

Business Cat

Did you try turning it off and on again?

Phoenix

I did

If I boot into safe mode, explorer is there.

Zachary T

This should fix everything: del C:\Windows\Sytstem32

Phoenix

But I'm not sure where to go from there

Business Cat

18:11

Honestly that happens to me sometimes, but eventually it end up working if I just let it sit

Phoenix

It's been a while

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Find the nearest point in a 3D space Specs You have a cubic 3D space x,y,z of size 100 integer units, such as 0 <= x,y,z < 100. You get from standard input an array of points P represented as x,y,z integer coordinates, in any reasonable format as you like, for example: [x1,y1,z1],[x2,y2,z2],[x...

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fastest Gun in the West code-golf You are the roughest, toughest, coolest cowboy west of the Mississippi. However, some weird guy on a wacky nerd website decided that it would be cool to plop you into random unfinished landscapes and fight. No matter, you'll still win. However, to help you win ...

Phoenix

This is disappointing, I can't start windows update either

The bork happened right after an update

If I can access windows update, I should be able to fix.

Ok, I kinda got the update rollback thing to open

But it crashes immediatly

Mr. Xcoder

😭😭 Lost 25 rep because of repcap.

I can't complain though

Phoenix

Ok, looks like it's reinstall windows time

HyperNeutrino

18:20

Hey I found my Hackathon team Bitbucket

@Mr.Xcoder PPCG equivalent of a First World Problem? :P

dzaima

That's the best thing you could try, that's windows 10 for you. Done that ~2 times because of glitches lol

Phoenix

Ok, apparantly my Windows Installer is corrupted or some shite

HyperNeutrino

The best thing you could try is... get a better operating system.

Phoenix

I did

HyperNeutrino

@Phoenix Were you attacked by a virus?

Phoenix

18:20

But I want to play games too

@HyperNeutrino No I enabled preview builds >_>

HyperNeutrino

There's a virus that causes computers to stop working going around recently. It's only known to affect Windows as well.

dzaima

good I didn't do that

HyperNeutrino

@Phoenix Ah I see

dzaima

> It's only known to affect Windows as well.

Phoenix

Most viruses are

dzaima

18:21

almost every virus

HyperNeutrino

Ok 10/10 would recommend stop

Please. ^^

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino No, I already have Mortarboard. I should have it twice now

HyperNeutrino

@DJMcMayhem

@Mr.Xcoder ah ok. nice

Phoenix

I have Mortarboard due to serial voting one time

HyperNeutrino

The first time I repcapped, I only got 196 rep. I was so close and then a user got deleted, which gave me -10 >.< It still counted somehow.

Phoenix

18:24

The votes got reversed but I still have the badge

HyperNeutrino

lol

totallyhuman

i've never rep capped

dzaima

@HyperNeutrino that happened to me too, and it was your user deletion

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman you probably will soon

totallyhuman

>_<>

HyperNeutrino

18:25

Oh rip :I

totallyhuman

mm maybe

Phoenix

> MediaCreationTool.exe
> Hello darkness my old friend...

totallyhuman

but my answers aren't really ever clever

HyperNeutrino

but trivial answers get a ton of upvotes sometimes

Phoenix

> There was a problem running this tool

god fucking dammit windows

totallyhuman

18:27

i mean my most upvoted answer is a comedic answer

@Phoenix applies in every situation

Phoenix

If I apply sufficient obsceneties for my current situation I will likely be kicked

HyperNeutrino

My second-most upvoted is literally date -d100day which took me longer to click the answer button than to type, and my first is just a simple Py 2/3 division abuse

@Phoenix If you apply sufficient obsceneties in general for any use of Windows, you would a) hit the message size limit, and b) get kicked.

totallyhuman

:D

Phoenix

I've had to reinstall windows less times than Linux, and I've been a Linux user for less than six months.

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino but those had high scores tho

DJMcMayhem

18:29

→ 8 tables moved to Trash

3

HyperNeutrino

That's surprising. Do you frequently do things like sudo rm -rf / --no-preserve-root?

Phoenix

ty

DJMcMayhem

@HyperNeutrino status-completed

Phoenix

@HyperNeutrino Well, one time I uninstalled Nouveau and forgot to download nVidia drivers beforehand

But most of the time my display just failed after a while.

I suppose I could just live in safe mode

ehh

BRB restarting into normal mode

Maybe installer will run

totallyhuman

that's not how it works ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ

Phoenix

18:33

@totallyhuman It's not always the display, another time I tried to upgrade Ubuntu and broke dpkg

totallyhuman

;-; what was that for

DJMcMayhem

@totallyhuman I literally just trashed a bunch of ಠ_ಠ faces, and then you immediately posted more

totallyhuman

the trashing message literally says you trashed a bunch of tables :P but ok

Adám

@ZacharyT Now that I read what I wrote I realise that just sounds like a statement can continue on the next line. But HAL/S reads the entire multi-line column at once. It is a single line that can extend with superscripts and subscripts.

HyperNeutrino

Ooh HAL/S is the 2D and 1D language that's used for astronaut stuff right?

PhiNotPi

18:41

So uhh, is ಠ supposed to be an unrecognized character, or am I missing a font?

Phoenix

You're missing a font

It's the disapproval face

Adám

@Phoenix eye

Phoenix

Right

totallyhuman

D: you've never actually seen the disapproval face in its true glory?

HyperNeutrino

@Phoenix Or left.

totallyhuman

18:42

*groans*

PhiNotPi

I have, a lot, I'm just on a different computer.

Adám

@HyperNeutrino Yeah, control space shuttles and rockets and stuff.

HyperNeutrino

Ah. Fun

spaaaaaaaaace

Phoenix

@PhiNotPi Try installing Noto Sans Kannada

Adám

HAL/S is the only programming language that can actually cause your computer to crash and burn.

totallyhuman

18:43

>_> i thought i accidentally switched on xkcd substitutions

Phoenix

Or really any Kannada font, but Dennis says Noto Sans is good, and I trust his judgement.

totallyhuman

noto is good because it covers liek every character

HyperNeutrino

Dennis Approval implies Highest Degree of Excellence.

Phoenix

^-^ MediaCreationTool.exe has started!

HyperNeutrino

:D

Phoenix

18:44

That's kinda a sad thing to be happy about

totallyhuman

or any telugu font ^^

a sad thing to be happy about is killing people in video games and stuff

HyperNeutrino

A sad thing to be happy about is... well... a lot of things in this world...

totallyhuman

that should totally be a thing

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman A sadder thing to be happy about is that but minus the video games part.

totallyhuman

"Sad Things to be Happy About"

Phoenix

18:46

That sounds like a buzzfeed article

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino that's... a difference case altogether :P

HyperNeutrino

Exactly :P

totallyhuman

"Top 10 Sad Things to be Happy About! Number 7 will SHOCK you!"

Phoenix

You know, If I don't care about the taskbar, my computer is fully usable right now.

Zachary T

OKay, so, @Adám, it's basically a programming language hopped up on a little math notation?

Phoenix

18:47

Like, I can play video games and open visual studio and stuff

Just not explorer.exe

Zachary T

Have you turned it off then back on again?

Phoenix

I'll tell people it's an ultraminimalistic setup I have.

Adám

@ZacharyT And a little rocket science, 'cause y'know… space!

totallyhuman

fun fact: stopping explorer.exe in task manager with chrome open turns your windows computer into a chromebook!

Phoenix

@totallyhuman No it restarts explorer.exe

Adám

18:49

@Phoenix No it doesn't. Not in Windows NT, 2000, XP, 7, or 10. Done it.

totallyhuman

~~not in windows 7 anyways~~ edit ninja'd >.>

source: i've done it

Zachary T

^

Phoenix

Ah. In Windows 10 task manager when you click on explorer.exe the button changes from "end task" to "restart"

@Adám Not in Windows 10, or at least recent versions.

dzaima

@Phoenix lol, if you click the delete keyboard key it ends it still

Phoenix

tru

Adám

18:51

@Phoenix I always use Delete button or right-click>End Task. Works a charm. In fact, Explorer isn't running as I type this.

Phoenix

At least you can start explorer again ;-;

Adám

Interesting, Alt-Tab revert so something that looks like Windows 2000, and All the WIn-key combos cease to work.

Except Win-L.

Zachary T

That moment when you realize juxtaposition can be an operator: ccs.neu.edu/home/samth/fortress-spec.pdf

Adám

@ZacharyT J has ;

Zachary T

Pure juxtaposition.

Phoenix

18:53

@Adám Same here

Zachary T

Like implicit multiplication and C's "C " "Language"

Adám

@ZacharyT Try it online!

@ZacharyT Yeah, Dyalog APL (as all APL2-alikes) has 'APL' 'Language'

HyperNeutrino

ooo fancy box

Zachary T

AKA APL/J's display

Phoenix

In C, if I have a double x, is there a difference between a cast like (int) x and a cast like int (x) ?

Zachary T

18:55

I don't think so.

Adám

Juxtaposition in APL: tryapl.org/?a=%281%202%203%29%283%204%u2374%u237312%29&run

HyperNeutrino

what is juxtaposition

i know what it means in english class

:P

totallyhuman

the act of juxtaposing

HyperNeutrino

><

Adám

@HyperNeutrino The art of placing two things next to each other?

totallyhuman

18:57

ah yes a very fine art

Zachary T

Practically the same thing. Like if i were to juxtapose x and y it would be x y (as xy would be another variable)

totallyhuman

takes skill to perfect it

HyperNeutrino

>.< Oh okay.

Adám

In Dyalog, the anonymous lambda {⍺ ⍵} has been optimised for this.

It takes a left and a right argument and juxtaposes them.

Zachary T

Let's see if I can get this to work @Sean, help with Perl6?

HyperNeutrino

18:59

APL is interesting

totallyhuman

stack overflow got a new footer and it's still terrible

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