The Nineteenth Byte

Lembik

2:00 PM

1.17260

@orlp ^^

orlp

@Lembik closer than most, but not correct :P

Lembik

I will take closer than most :)

orlp

most people are off by about 20 orders of magnitude

Lembik

how much am I off by?

orlp

you didn't even get the sign right :P

Lembik

2:01 PM

oh that's nice

orlp

you're within one order of magnitude though :P

zyabin101

TAC (The Acronym Chat)

SAHAAH (Sometimes Acronym-Hot, Always Acronym-Heavy). Every me...

Lembik

@orlp Do I have this right at least?333.75*y^6+x^2*(11*x^2*y^2-y^6-121*y^4-2)+5.5*y^8+x/(2*y)

I mean is that the same formula?

orlp

from what I can see, yes

Lembik

-0.8273960599

orlp

2:04 PM

correct!

Lembik

:)

I don't like to be wrong for long

orlp

what did wolfram alpha tell you?

Lembik

no idea

haven't used that

orlp

try it :P

Emigna

(1335/4)y^6+x^2(11x^2y^2-y^6-121y^4-2)+(11/2)y^8+x/(2y), x=77617,y=33096

gives the correct answer in wolfram

but not with floats

TimmyD

2:06 PM

is the x^2*y^6 supposed to match 5.5*y^8 ?

Lembik

ok so 40 decimal places is enough precision

zyabin101

\o/ Welcome to The Nineteenth Byte chat, @Emigna!

Rainbolt

I managed to get the "correct" answer using the exact formula, with no fractions or anything. I'll wait until Lembik is done though

Lembik

@orlp which I suppose is just too many for a float

@Rainbolt I am done :)

so any code we have that enables you to set precision to 40 decimal places should work

38 digits is enough too :)

Rainbolt

# Original formula, in pieces
j=333.75*y**6
k=x**2
l=11*x**2*y**2
m=y**6
n=121*y**4
o=2
p=5.5*y**8
q=x/(2*y)
r=a+b*(c-d-e-f)+g+h

# Original formula, not in pieces
b=333.75*y**6 + x**2*(11*x**2*y**2 - y**6 - 121*y**4 - 2) + 5.5*y**8 + x/(2*y)

print(b) # Prints 1.1805916207174113e+21
print(r) # Prints -0.8273960599468213

Emigna

2:08 PM

Thanks @zyabin101 :)

Lembik

@Rainbolt nice!

orlp

I should've been mean

and made this a code golf

and add this as a test case :P

Lembik

@orlp you could have set the precision using python Decimal

@orlp it's a nice thing to do actually

orlp

@Lembik sure but I've got an exact answer

you can scroll up now :P

TimmyD

OK, what the deuce

Lembik

2:09 PM

@orlp could you just tell me?

orlp

it's -54767 / 66192

TimmyD

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> 100*$x*$x*$y*$y*$y*$y*$y*$y
791711134198313589547235016798398054400

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> 550*$y*$y*$y*$y*$y*$y*$y*$y
791711134066896136110113470152494284800

Lembik

Fraction(-54767, 66192) ?

that's nice

orlp

@Lembik yes

@TimmyD floating point is not commutative

Rainbolt

Wow, my last comment was completely wrong

Lembik

2:11 PM

@orlp bpaste.net/show/c6425dbb196b

orlp

or associative

Rainbolt

I declared variables j through r, and then used variables a through h. And nobody said anything lol

orlp

@NathanMerrill you left

TimmyD

@orlp What floating point? This is entirely using BigInteger

orlp

I convinced everyone else that wolfram alpha is wrong

Nathan Merrill

2:12 PM

@orlp I traveled to work

orlp

@TimmyD oh

TimmyD

Yeah

orlp

btw the first, second and third group add up to -2

but in general, floating point breaks down when adding small things to very big things

or subtracting two very close big things

and it's a fallacy to assume that floating point error is in some way bounded

and that what you get back is in some way always close to the real value

Emigna

which your example here shows very well :)

Fatalize

I find those kinds of problems very uninteresting for some reason

TimmyD

2:15 PM

Stupid .NET

Rainbolt

@Fatalize You were interested enough to participate (you gave an answer earlier) :P

Fatalize

But not interested enough to find out why :p

Lembik

@orlp I should have tried what I pasted to you first

TimmyD

-0.827396059946821

Finally

Lembik

@TimmyD hooray :)

TimmyD

2:20 PM

Needed to $x=New-Object System.Numerics.BigInteger 77617 and multiply everything by 100 to get rid of decimal points, and then separate out the division separate and re-cast the BigInteger result back to a regular int and then manually combine the results

Phew

Rainbolt

This is baffling me. Am I making a typo here? repl.it/CQ3W/1

Run it and look at piece 2

Then look at b and k

b and k are both x**2. Why am I getting a different result?

TimmyD

Line 27?

Rainbolt

fml I reused b

Thank you @TimmyD

TimmyD

:D

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Rainbolt I liked the old avatar better. :/

Rainbolt

2:25 PM

You're as cold as ice! Willing to sacrifice.

El'endia Starman

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ They change their avatar seasonally.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

okay

Rainbolt

Haha, now that I am using the correct variables, the three outputs are i, r, and s

Quill

@Downgoat you should add coveralls to Cheddar... you just have to toggle it on their website, and add a post build travis script

zyabin101

@Quill And use a different coverage tool, because I don't think the only plugins for Coveralls and JS will support Istanbul. :/

But if they do, then you can go with Istanbul. :)

Quill

2:30 PM

maximilianschmitt.me/posts/istanbul-code-coverage-badge-github

zyabin101

@Quill \o/

Lembik

@orlp I am generally in favour of more challenges that mirror real problems coders have :)

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Floating point issues aren't real problems that coders have?

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman they are! That was my point

El'endia Starman

Besides, it was a chat challenge.

zyabin101

2:33 PM

@Downgoat Ping me when you get coveralls. :D

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Oh, I misread your statement slightly. I basically mentally moved the "more" to before the "in".

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman Are you sure you didn't just think.. comment on the internet.. person must be crazy... must fight! :)

TimmyD

Them's fighting words.

Rainbolt

@orlp Did you create that puzzle?

Lembik

@TimmyD or just me being silly :)

TimmyD

2:40 PM

Me2

Lembik

" If we're implementing that policy, we might as well shut down The Nineteenth Byte entirely."

which policy is this?

orlp

@Rainbolt no, I found it

Rainbolt

@Lembik Click on link to message. Read up.

Lembik

err

orlp

@Rainbolt I believe it's called rump's polynomial

Sp3000

2:45 PM

Sometimes I do wish we had more problems requiring numerical analysis of submissions :P would be fun

Lembik

@Sp3000 lets make some!

Downgoat

@Quill I'm not paying money for coverage testing

orlp

@Sp3000 you never got the chance at failing at my puzzle :(

Quill

@Downgoat Coveralls is free unless it's not open source

Sp3000

Yeah, sorry. Was restarting comp so I could try out FB's CTF thing

Downgoat

2:47 PM

@Quill whenever I try to signup it makes me choose a plan though

Quill

I didn't even see the plans

Sp3000

Although orlp if you do have other similar ones, I'd be interested in hearing them

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

0

A: Has a fifteen year old from Canada discovered a hidden Mayan city?

:) The Mayan city might be a cannabis crop: BBC article :)

lol

Downgoat

@Quill do you have an account on coveralls?

Quill

I do

@Downgoat coveralls.io/sign-up and then click github sign up

Downgoat

2:52 PM

@Quill that prompts me to select a plan :/

Quill

there is a free option for open source... that's the one I'm on

the private repos cost to add, but the public ones don't

mınxomaτ

Actually, I take that back. Just sign in with GitHub and ignore the choose plan page.

@Downgoat When you are at that page, just navigate to coveralls.io/repos/new.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

so.. much.. badge on the readme

no

Quill

pls don't show name in chat

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

his name is [REDACTED]

zyabin101

3:00 PM

@Quill Okay sorry.

Your recent commits reveal it.

Quill

Yeah, my local git is borked

TimmyD

> His name is Robert Paulson.

Quill

I just reinstalled node from source

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Google says Quill's name is "noun: any of the main wing or tail feathers of a bird."

@Downgoat what version of NPM do you use?

Quill

anyway, coveralls is still broken for me

zyabin101

3:05 PM

Coveralls are.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

the s denotes a singular noun, remember?

zyabin101

ಠ_ಠ

Quill

Priscilla Ahn - When You Grow Up

►

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

The 9 is just painful....

El'endia Starman

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Really, the 32 is painful.

Optimizer

3:14 PM

21 is painful

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

eh, the 9 more so for me, but idc

Sp3000

Looks good to me

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oh, cool!

mınxomaτ

What? Is there a daylight saving year?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

Is this ready to be reopened?

and can some PPCG mod clear the comments?

Sp3000

3:22 PM

I'd say no for reopening, cos I have some comments to add

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

like what?

Sp3000

Commented

zyabin101

3:55 PM

chat ees ded

Meanwhile, I've been doing my own test framework.

Here are the asserts.

I'll do tests both with unittest and these asserts soon.

Well, just with unittest. XP

Because I didn't implement test inversions.

Or an assert for raising exceptions.

zyabin101

4:13 PM

Well, the assert tests fail.

Time to delete both the assert tests and the asserts.

^^^^^^^ link is now dead. Don't click it.

zyabin101

4:36 PM

Time to wake the chat up ~_~ Guys, where are you?

mınxomaτ

@zyabin101 notes "test and the asserts" for nerd band name...

zyabin101

@mınxomaτ "Test and the Asserts". What a cool name.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@mınxomaτ good idea actually.

And hell, chat is dead

Fatalize

4:55 PM

RIP chat

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat's children?

2

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

¬_¬ STALKER

Morgan Thrapp

5:14 PM

Am I losing my mind or does this chain of comments not make sense. I'm still not sure what he's saying about white space.

@MorganThrapp Padding at the end of columns aside, yes. — George Gibson 1 min ago

New Main Posts

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aditsu

6:07 PM

@El'endiaStarman great kids :)

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A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Calculate the Trump Tax If elected president, Donald Trump plans to implement a system of four income tax brackets (full details can be found on his website here). Your job is to take two inputs, annual income and filing status (single, married, or head of household) and output the income tax th...

zyabin101

Guys, conlang project is progressing.

Fatalize

ш

that letter is ugly

quartata

it's from Cyrillic

Fatalize

I know

most cyrillic letters are ugly

way too blocky to be handwritten

zyabin101

6:17 PM

I didn't know which letter should I choose to represent the sound /sh/.

Fatalize

ſ ?

zyabin101

I ultimately took a bit from Cyrillic alphabet and chose Шш.

Geobits

I sure wish you could edit texts for two minutes like you can in chat >_>

wizzwizz4

@Geobits Actually...

zyabin101

@wizzwizz4 Seriously...

wizzwizz4

6:19 PM

If you send them incompletely, you can actually amend them for a short amount of time after sending them.

Geobits

I'm not even sure what "send them incompletely" means in this context.

wizzwizz4

Although that is mostly just adding bits in the middle in predefined places.

zyabin101

ſ is one half of an integral, and a bit innate to handwrite. ∫ is a full integral, and too mathematic. :P

wizzwizz4

@Geobits Drop some of the packets, basically.

Fatalize

ſ is a long s

not used in any language anymore I don't think

Geobits

6:22 PM

I suppose that could possibly work, but I'm not going to write an app to do it, and I'm pretty sure it's hard to intentionally drop specific packets with any existing one.

Besides, if I knew that something needed to be changed ahead of time (and thus knew which packets to drop/amend), I'd just fix it before sending.

Zgarb

@zyabin101 There's also ß.

zyabin101

@Zgarb Good! It's closer to ASCII in Unicode, and it's more popular in European languages, especially German.

I won't lose a minute! :)

wizzwizz4

@Geobits Just send "all" of them badly, and amend them.

Geobits

Refer to statement before that. I'm lazy. If I wasn't, I'd proofread more.

Zgarb

@zyabin101 I just noticed a downside: it has no capital form. But if no word in your conlang begins with ß, I suppose that's not a problem...

zyabin101

6:30 PM

@Zgarb Okay. I'll continue using Шш. :(

Fatalize

Capital ẞ

Capital sharp s (ẞ) is the constructed "majuscule" of eszett. Sharp s is unique among the letters of the Latin alphabet in that it has no traditional upper case form, capital ẞ is just a modified glyph for ß. This is because it never occurs word-initially in German text, and traditional German printing (which used blackletter) never used all-caps. When using all-caps, traditional spelling rules required the replacement of ß with SS. However, in 2010, the use of the capital ẞ became mandatory in official documentation in Germany when writing geographical names in all-caps. == History == There have...

zyabin101

@Fatalize But it doesn't show up on my display. :/

quartata

@zyabin101 ʃ is sh in ipa

zyabin101

@quartata ʃ doesn't have a capital form.

Some words in the conlang may begin with ʃ, I suppose that's a problem...

quartata

Your language has capitals?

Zgarb

6:32 PM

How about the Greek sigma (Σσ)? Most fonts support it.

zyabin101

@quartata Yes.

Uhh, Σ and σ differ in how they look.

Martin Büttner

@zyabin101 does any language other than German use it?

mınxomaτ

The new version summons satan, apparently.

zyabin101

@mınxomaτ Maybe it's a virus.

Just go and close it.

quartata

@zyabin101 A and a vary in the way they look too :P

zyabin101

6:34 PM

@quartata They are from the Latin alphabet.

It only does matter how does Шш look. :P

mınxomaτ

Just make you language use characters from Linear A. No one even understand how that language works, so there's no confusion.

zyabin101

@mınxomaτ Nope.

Geobits

Or you could make each character a rectangle of raised dots.

Fatalize

š

zyabin101

I can't make characters like these display on my machine. :P

mınxomaτ

6:37 PM

Linear A (Unicode block)

Linear A is a Unicode block containing the characters of the ancient, undeciphered Linear A. == References... ==

Fatalize

Șș

$ ?

(lel)

zyabin101

> U+10600..U+1077F

Fatalize

Simpler idea: Sh

quartata

@Fatalize I was just about to suggest that

Fatalize

Or you know

c for sh

zyabin101

6:38 PM

No known font shows the Unicode block :P

Fatalize

if you use K and S, and want a bijection between sounds and letters

then c is useless so you can use it for sh

quartata

^

mınxomaτ

@zyabin101 users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/Aegean.htm

Fatalize

or c for S and S for sh

Zgarb

@zyabin101 How about using two box-drawing characters for each sound? They are supported in most sane fonts, and you can use the double-struck versions as "capital letters".

Fatalize

6:40 PM

they're even uglier than cyrillic letters

Geobits

Holy crap. I've heard of people bickering over a couple degrees in the office, but... The current temperature in my office is 37.1°C in the shade (99ºF)

Zgarb

But it would be a pretty unique alphabet. :P

Fatalize

Or you can use Hh for sh if you don't have the h sound in your language

muddyfish

@Geobits I was just reading that. Very much a hot network question

mınxomaτ

@Geobits Office temperature is simple: Choose the coldest. You can always put more clothes on, but only take so many off before it's illegal. :P

Geobits

6:42 PM

The last time I worked in an office that hot was Iraq :P

muddyfish

@mınxomaτ And there's a hard limit to that as well

zyabin101

@mınxomaτ I want the characters to be available in Arial, the standard Windows font. :P

Fatalize

you can't work properly when it's 37°C

wizzwizz4

@zyabin101 Arial is the standard font.

muddyfish

Arial's not the standard font

mınxomaτ

6:43 PM

@wizzwizz4 Well except for every OS ever, because the system font != web font.

Geobits

@Fatalize You can iff it's 48C outside. Then 37 actually feels nice to walk into. Other than that though.... yea.

zyabin101

@muddyfish But it is the standard Windows font. :P

mınxomaτ

@zyabin101 No, the standard Windows font is Segoe UI

wizzwizz4

Arial should be the standard font. It's much nicer than Calibri.

muddyfish

I only need 7 more upvotes to get a nice shiny silver code-golf badge

Geobits

6:44 PM

I'll never understand why there isn't a Comic Wingdings.

TimmyD

Calibri sucks

3

zyabin101

@mınxomaτ No, it's Arial.

:P

wizzwizz4

^^^

mınxomaτ

@zyabin101 No, it really isn't. Maybe on Vista, but that hardly qualifies as Windows.

Segoe

Segoe (/ˈsiːɡoʊ/ SEE-goh) is a typeface, or family of fonts, that is best known for its use by Microsoft. The company uses Segoe in its online and printed marketing materials, including recent logos for a number of products. Additionally, the Segoe UI font sub-family is utilized by numerous Microsoft applications, and may be installed by applications (such as Microsoft Office 2007 and Windows Live Messenger 2009). It was adopted as Microsoft's default operating system font beginning with Windows Vista, and is also used on outlook.com, Microsoft's web-based email service. In August 2012, Microsoft...

> Segoe UI is a member of the Segoe family used in Microsoft products for user interface text, as well as for some online user assistance material, intended to improve the consistency in how users see all text across all languages.

In Windows 8.1 and 10, it's the standard font everywhere in the system, but especially the "new" UI.

zyabin101

@mınxomaτ ಠ_ಠ

TimmyD

6:49 PM

> I didn't come here to get amateur meteorologist's opinions on how hot an office can possibly get.

Geobits

It is a bit hard to believe in the UK this time of year, but I'll defer to the experts on that :P

TimmyD

Golly gee gosh darnit

quartata

@TimmyD I didn't see that in the post

TimmyD

Every single thing I try to get that Universal Spooky Meme challenge down either doesn't work or is longer.

@LLlAMnYP I think a lot of these people are forgetting there are a lot of factors that can lead to a room's temperature rising, and all of them scaling off each other. I don't want to get my back up but this is a place for workplace advice, I didn't come here to get amateur meteorologist's opinions on how hot an office can possibly get. I've taken the advice of the accepted answer and the HR lady said she will look at making a policy where the heating has to be turned off at a certain temperature. If we get a max acceptable temperature that nobody can argue with, I'm golden. — Matadeleo 5 hours ago

TAC (The Acronym Chat)

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