The Nineteenth Byte

1:00 AM

Node is what happens when someone says, "I know, let's take this garbage client-side language and bring it server-side. That'll solve all of our problems."

Dennis

I've never used Node or Python server. For CGI scripts, I'd probably go with Perl.

quartata

mod_perl is great.

PHP is usually a better tool though. It depends.

Dennis

PHP is a tool alright.

Alex A.

All opinions are welcome but some are bad.

quartata

But PHP isn't objectively bad.

Alex A.

1:01 AM

Yes it is

quartata

JS actually has problems

Mars Ultor

@AlexA. The programming paradigm is really different though

quartata

There's a difference

Mars Ultor

node focuses on callbacks

Dennis

@quartata That's objectively wrong.

quartata

1:02 AM

@MarsUltor The paradigm isn't what's wrong with JS, FWIW.

Alex A.

^

quartata

When it comes to paradigm JS is probably closest to a functional programming language which is great

No, I think the two big problems with JS are scope and type coercion

PhiNotPi

strawpoll.me/7319584

quartata

FWIW I wrote pl in Perl and it mostly works

Mars Ultor

Yeah, I mean node doesn't use scope often, it's pretty much 100% callbacks

Alex A.

1:04 AM

I don't care much about Java but I actively dislike Perl, so I'm going with Java.

trichoplax

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Perl bashing happens half as often because it takes twice as long to type as JS

2

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:P

New Main Posts

2

Q: Find the program that prints this integer sequence (Cops' thread)

This is the cops' thread. The robbers' thread goes here. The last cops-and-robbers thread was already 4 months ago. The cop's task The cop's task is to write a program/function that takes a positive (or non-negative) integer and outputs/returns another number (not necessarily integer). The co...

cops-and-robbers

1

Q: Find the program that prints this integer sequence (Robbers' thread)

This is the robbers' thread. The cops' thread goes here. In the cops thread, the task was to write a program/function that takes a positive (or non-negative) integer and outputs/returns another number (not necessarily integer). The robbers task is to unscramble the code the cops used to produce ...

cops-and-robbers

Downgoat

@PhiNotPi I voted Java but I meant to click perl

quartata

OK so that's 3 votes for Perl 1 vote for Java

Dennis

1:05 AM

Blame hooves?

quartata

I think that's a win for Perl

Alex A.

:/

quartata

@PhiNotPi The masses have spoken

Plus I can actually help if you write it in Perl

PhiNotPi

> The masses

> 4 people

quartata

I'm really good at Java but I don't willing code in it nowadays

@PhiNotPi that's pretty massive for the Nineteenth Byte

Mars Ultor

1:06 AM

@quartata why not?

Alex A.

@quartata Strawpolls usually get about 9 answers in my experience but seem to cap there

Downgoat

@Dennis yes

Alex A.

@Dennis weshouldblamedoorknob.tk

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

random RPG.SE post

32

Q: Problems with minecraft happy druids

We have a highly creative player that plays a druid. This PC tries to make "big digs" from the surface to any underground complex (crypts, strongholds, etc). He uses a combination of conjure animals (giant badgers for digging) and wall of stone (for pillars and beams). With this combination he ca...

dnd-5e problem-players

quartata

@MarsUltor It sounds weird but I've burnt myself out on it. I've basically written everything I've made in the past 6 years in Java and the appeal of it has started to wear off and the problems with it starting to glare

Groovy is awesome though.

Dennis

1:08 AM

@AlexA. That redirects to http://fn.hgin.com/&_=1460164057, which says connection refused.

quartata

@Dennis Yeah they couldn't repurchase the domain or something

Alex A.

@MarsUltor I said what I meant

@Dennis Yeah the site is no more.

Dennis

@quartata Who's they?

Alex A.

flawr

I assume

quartata

@Dennis I think it's either Alex or disapproval face

Mars Ultor

1:09 AM

@quartata The thing is, normal programmers stick with one language they do well in

(obviously not in PPCG though)

Alex A.

@quartata flawr made weshouldblamedoorknob.tk

quartata

@MarsUltor I do; I stuck with Perl for most of my life. I shifted to working on Java for bigger projects because OO is easier in it.

Plus it was a better skill to have when it came down to jobs and shit

Mars Ultor

Maybe use C#?

quartata

Oh god no

Alex A.

C# is better than Java IMO

Dennis

1:10 AM

Quick question about Code Jam: Do you have four minutes to submit a solution once you start reading the problem or once you download the test cases?

trichoplax

From start of download

quartata

@AlexA. That may be true but I still wouldn't use it

Alex A.

@quartata Why not?

Dennis

@AlexA. They seem to be similar, except you can't really use C# cross-platform without nasty surprises.

Mars Ultor

@AlexA. It's also a lot more concise

Maltysen

1:11 AM

@Dennis is code jam happening?

Mars Ultor

@Dennis Mono has nasty surprises?

Alex A.

@Maltysen Qualification round

Dennis

@AlexA. Oh, that just got that much easier...

trichoplax

@Dennis You can read all 4 problems up front before you decide to compete

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau Does that submission work?

Dennis

1:11 AM

@MarsUltor Oh, yes.

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Why not?

Mars Ultor

You just can't use the latest C# without nasty surprises

Maltysen

@AlexA. that means I can do it right?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau Just wondering about the format.

quartata

@AlexA. Because as awesome as Mono is it's not perfect and I don't want to limit myself to one platform.

Alex A.

1:12 AM

@Maltysen I think so if you sign up now

quartata

Plus up until recently Mono was always kinda shady legality-wise

Alex A.

@quartata Well, you have .NET or Mono

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Does it appear in the OEIS?

quartata

Plus it's a Microsoft thing

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata mono is terrible. you're in bed all week

@KennyLau Yup!

quartata

1:12 AM

Microsoft has always rustled my jimmies

Alex A.

mmmmmMMMmmMmmmm

phase

Can you guys make some PRs to this repo?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I will insta-upvote any answer whose OEIS number is in the sequence

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@AlexA. Doorknob's fault.

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ oeis.org/…

Alex A.

1:13 AM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ -1 not enough <marquee>

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau It's in there.

Wtf are the _s?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@AlexA. brb fixing

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Someone said those blanks could be replaced by _s.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I'll just tell you my sequence in a private chat :P

Mars Ultor

@quartata Mono is not perfect, but it's good enough for almost everything.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:14 AM

Can other people join a room for two people?

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Please don't

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I want to crack it xd

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau oh why not?

oh XD

I assure you, it's in there.

quartata

@MarsUltor The fact that they aren't perfectly identical means that there will be obscure edge cases I have to worry about which means that I have to learn those obscure edge cases which is 100% more effort than I would desire

Plus C# afaik does not have good OpenGL bindings

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Sure, but it is a(11) instead of a(10)

Alex A.

@quartata Use C++. It's good and does all things.

Kenny Lau

1:15 AM

@QPaysTaxes What do you mean?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau really? foo

quartata

@AlexA. fak no I don't like C++ at all for several very eccentric reasons

If I have to pick a flavor of C I would pick vanilla C or Objective-C

Alex A.

@quartata What are said reasons?

Mars Ultor

@quartata opengl.org/wiki/Language_bindings#C.23 (Also, if there's an edge case, can't you just submit a bug report?)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau Sorry, mine's zero-based, I messed up on the first one

Alex A.

1:16 AM

@quartata Objective-C and you're a Mac dev forever

until it goes 100% swift

Kenny Lau

@QPaysTaxes If I could produce a code which outputs the ... (just read the robber's task)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. that sounds terrible

quartata

@AlexA. Objective-C is cross-platform

Mars Ultor

Linux has GNUStep, a port of the Foundation NextStep core library

quartata

@AlexA. I don't like the fact that they changed structures and unions from the way they worked in C

Alex A.

1:17 AM

@quartata Sure, but literally no one but Mac developers actually use it

quartata

@MarsUltor GNUStep is the same as Foundation, which is the stdlib. gcc is what compiles it

Alex A.

@quartata They did? Huh. I haven't used C so I only know those as they are in C++.

quartata

Also ObjFW is way waayy better than GNUStep for non-GUI apps

@AlexA. They basically made them weird forms of classes

Also I don't like having #include <algorithm> instead of say #include <algorithm.h>

Also I hate multiple inheritance.

I just flat out won't use any language with multiple inheritance

period

Maltysen

@Dennis why is 5 insomnia?

Alex A.

Doesn't Java have it?

quartata

1:19 AM

No.

Java uses single inheritance

Like sane languages

Alex A.

Multiple inheritance is when a class inherits from a class which inherits from another class?

quartata

No multiple inheritance is when a class inherits from two other classes

It's so dumb it's not even funny

Alex A.

Oh. You can do that in C++?

quartata

Yes

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Is it documented?

Maltysen

1:20 AM

@Dennis nvm 5 is the # of test cases ._.

trichoplax

You can even do that in python

Maltysen

@quartata why you say that?

Kenny Lau

@QPaysTaxes What do you mean?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau Yeah

Maltysen

multiple inheritance is useful

quartata

1:20 AM

@Maltysen How should it work when you call super()?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

spotty documentation but yeah

Alex A.

I guess you can do it in R too, but R's class system is incredibly garbage.

class(x) <- "y" and now x has class y

quartata

The fact that there is no obvious answer for that question is why

Kenny Lau

@QPaysTaxes What does decode do in your pseudocode?

quartata

@trichoplax It does? Damn good thing I don't do OO in Python

Maltysen

1:21 AM

@quartata the first class u inherit from

quartata

@Maltysen That makes no sense.

trichoplax

@quartata You can still use single inheritance... :)

Maltysen

@quartata but Python's self is so cool that that doesn't matter

quartata

@Maltysen Not talking about Python, talking about C++.

Maltysen

cuz you can do SecondClass.__init__(self)

Kenny Lau

1:22 AM

@QPaysTaxes It counts towards the bytes.

quartata

I'm sure Python does it beautifully

Doesn't change the fact that they had to work around the flaws in the reasoning of multiple inheritance when they shouldn't have had to

Alex A.

@quartata trichoplax brought up a good point. Just because the feature is available doesn't mean you have to use it.

Downgoat

is it bad if printsqrt4 properly outputs 2?

quartata

Single inheritance + interfaces (like Java) or modules (like Ruby) covers all the possible use cases for multiple inheritance and it doesn't suck

@AlexA. True, but like I said my reasoning was eccentric. I just won't use C++ on sheer moral grounds because of that

@Downgoat yes

Downgoat

D:

quartata

1:24 AM

@Downgoat What if I want a function named printsqrt? How will that end up parsing?

Downgoat

it will evaluate to printsqrt

the parser matches the longest operator possible

quartata

OK.

But why does printsqrt work like that?

Alex A.

@Downgoat That's in Cheddar?

quartata

@AlexA. I assume yes

Alex A.

Gross

quartata

1:25 AM

I love cheddar cheese

Downgoat

I do not find Cheddar cheese gross

^^

quartata

Well he's a vegan

Downgoat

oh

quartata

So he probably disagrees

Alex A.

Haha. I used to eat cheese but I'm lactose intolerant.

So what it does to me is gross.

I meant gross more in terms of the fact that such an operator would exist.

trichoplax

1:26 AM

Can you eat goat's cheese?

Did I ask this before?

Alex A.

I could but I wouldn't

No I don't think you did

Dennis

@Downgoat Oh god, why?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes you can email me at the email adress found on my docs for jolf

Alex A.

My sister is also lactose intolerant (and isn't vegan) so she can have goat cheese

Downgoat

@Dennis because it's easy to parse

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:27 AM

@QPaysTaxes XD

Downgoat

word operators are treated just like regular symbol operators

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

kk

quartata

@Downgoat That seems harder to parse unless you have a weird way of parsing

Downgoat

@AlexA. goat cheese is the best cheese along wiith Cheddar cheese

@quartata should 1+-1 evaluate to zero?

Alex A.

Yes

quartata

1:28 AM

@Downgoat Yes.

- is unary minus here.

trichoplax

I love goat's cheese. My only complaint is I have yet to find a blue goat's cheese

quartata

oh god please don't tell me what cheddar does here

Dennis

@Downgoat No offense, but if you're making a real language, that's a terrible reason...

Downgoat

@quartata pretty much

its very easy to parse

quartata

Hmm, we should do a cheese poll.

Kenny Lau

1:29 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ What's the difference between ,r and ,R?

quartata

I love myzithra

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau none.

trichoplax

@Downgoat Just realised you mean "easy to parse for the compiler/interpreter". So you're getting the humans to do the machines' work? :P

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau :P

Alex A.

1:29 AM

strawpoll.me/DR4553KlihD

quartata

@AlexA. nope so much nope

Mars Ultor

[RickrollEror: DIsguised link from strawpoll found]

quartata

dQw4w9WgXcQ = rickroll

Learn to memorize that

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

lol

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Jan 22 at 3:32, by Dennis

I chose ಠ_ಠ.

quartata

1:30 AM

Because apparently Alex is lazy and always links to the Vevo version

Downgoat

@trichoplax no, print sqrt 4 also works. it just happens to also work when you forget spaces

Alex A.

Dammit I burnt my chapati trying to rickroll you guys

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes :3

trichoplax

@AlexA. Long overdue

Downgoat

@AlexA. ಠ_ಠ

why

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:30 AM

look at the source code

quartata

@AlexA. awh man sorry :/

I feel bad now

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Alex A.

haha

It's my fault

I didn't have to rickroll you while I had chapati on the stove

Dennis

@Downgoat But it shouldn't. In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.

Downgoat

:28879104

Kenny Lau

1:31 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Holy s**t

quartata

@Downgoat That's a line from the Zen of Python

Alex A.

@Dennis If you're happy and you know it, syntax error

Downgoat

@AlexA. syntax error!

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Delete link in 10 seconds

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

kk

Mars Ultor

1:32 AM

also, printsqrt<number> may be a variable name

epicTCK

@AlexA. meaning that it looks like garbage... I wouldnt say it IS garbage

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Try submitting it

quartata

While Perl does do functions as list operators like that, it also has a really clever system for handling it.

Alex A.

@epicTCK That's not what I mean. I mean it is garbage.

quartata

Just make functions have parens around them.

trichoplax

1:33 AM

@AlexA. You should probably have a bot for that, leaving you free to focus on Rickrolls

Alex A.

Haha I thought you were going to suggest a bot for rickrolling, but no, it's a bot for cooking so I can rickroll XD

epicTCK

3 mins ago, by quartata

dQw4w9WgXcQ = rickroll

trichoplax

@AlexA. I was, but then I changed my mind while typing...

epicTCK

that is also a sample of a perl program... ^^^

PhiNotPi

ninja'd

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/77423/2867

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:34 AM

Leave an upvote if you had fun cracking it :|

Kenny Lau

@QPaysTaxes Sorry :(

Downgoat

@epicTCK that is incorrect

dQw4w9WgXcQ = u 8ÃÕ ]Ä

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes sowee, not the best doc-maker here

epicTCK

@Downgoat did you just jolf string compression that

Kenny Lau

@QPaysTaxes Same here

Downgoat

1:35 AM

@epicTCK no

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@epicTCK that looks like teascript compression

epicTCK

@Downgoat the duhek did you do

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Try 'em out :3

None of them are bad

they're all easter eggs

XD

I'll get you :3

Downgoat

Chat mini Challenge: figure out how I got dQw4w9WgXcQ = u 8ÃÕ ]Ä

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

hax

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:38 AM

majik

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I know jolf like the front of my claw

Kenny Lau

@QPaysTaxes @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Nice place to hide the built-ins.

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you don't have hands

you have claws

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

tru

@KennyLau ?

quartata

@Downgoat Compressed it with shoco?

Downgoat

1:39 AM

@QPaysTaxes well I guess you could implement whatever I did in JS but no

@quartata nope

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Seriously, you had two pages for documentations, and took years before I finally decided to check the second page.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau XD

@QPaysTaxes I addd one after quartata suggested it

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Seriously

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ m - math expansion:

(tba)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh

Kenny Lau

I don't call that documented.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:41 AM

I forgot about that

sh!t

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ No problem, it's here github.com/ConorOBrien-Foxx/Jolf/blob/master/src/jolf.js

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ sh factorial t?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

github.com/ConorOBrien-Foxx/Jolf/blob/master/src/jolf.js#L1081

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Ctrl-F "Catalan"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau yup! around 1081 is when the math stuff starts

^^ yup

quartata

1:42 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Didn't suggest so much as I posed a challenge involving it

but yeah hi I did a thing

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata you did before you posted it and I forgot to

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ By the way, does Math.JS have totient

Downgoat

@quartata yeah

quartata

What's the corresponding ! in Jolf

Downgoat

wait no

quartata

1:44 AM

It doesn't?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

like, euler's totient?

Downgoat

> Zen of Python

-1 for false advertising

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes w?

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yes

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata I think I implemented it elsewhere

Don't use the readthedocs site

github.com/ConorOBrien-Foxx/Jolf/tree/master/docs

no problem ^_^

Look in the source again :P

quartata

1:50 AM

There's documentation for all those in the modules.md

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

I forgot about that

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Codejam gives 101 test cases, forgets that. >.<

The input doc has 101 test cases. My code generates all the answer. Screw them.

trichoplax

Not 1 line for number of test cases and 100 lines of test cases?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

nvm

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ it only gives 100 test cases

not 101

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:54 AM

53 secs ago, by Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

nvm

quartata

This is super weird. I think something is wrong with my version of file-roller.

It seems not to extract subdirectories... ??

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ NeoVim Magic?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

never mind

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes I forgot exactly what it does

only in arrays and strings iirc

Kenny Lau

@QPaysTaxes Are you making a cop's?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:57 AM

Say I have 7 chars in a program. I only need to reveal 1, right?

Yes.

Jolf Discussion

quartata

Ohh so that's why Sencha was saying it wasn't a framework

the directory structure got all messed up because I didn't check "recreate folders"

That's weird; why wasn't that on by default?

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ What is this? github.com/ConorOBrien-Foxx/Brainbash

quartata

I guess that means it wasn't a tarbomb after all

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@KennyLau Brainfuck with 2 tapes

Kenny Lau

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Is it an ongoing project or what?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:59 AM

It's mostly finished, why?

Jolf Discussion

Transcript for