The Nineteenth Byte

Kenny Lau

2:00 AM

lol

is java the only language that distinguishes char and String?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

imgur.com/gallery/xQGm7uc

Doorknob

Most systems languages distinguish char and string...

C, C++, C#, Rust...

(Just to name a few)

Most scripting languages don't have a char type

Geobits

Odd, I don't remember ever seeing this one before.

quartata

If you got the opportunity to go back in time and rewrite JS in any way you wanted, what sorts of paradigms/things would you choose/add? This goes out mostly to the people who like JS

(real talk alert)

Doorknob

No automatic semicolon insertion

quartata

2:10 AM

It does that?

I kinda meant less specific things like that and more things like typing, prototype vs class inhertance, paradigms, etc

Quill

@quartata it does that for some things

write a decent date time library into it

quartata

Presumably I thknk everyone would prefer JS with block scoping

Downgoat

@quartata JS has block scoping with ES6

Quill

the let keyword would've been a godsend during the dark days of jQuery

Downgoat

@Doorknob why is that bad?

don't languages like Python also do that?

Doorknob

2:14 AM

no

quartata

Uh no

Geobits

I (generally) like for my compiler/interpreter to know what I meant, not guess what I meant.

Downgoat

@Doorknob then what does Python do and what's the difference?

quartata

Anyways

Doorknob

@Downgoat Python... doesn't do semicolons

well they're supported

Downgoat

2:15 AM

yeah

Doorknob

but if you use them your code is bad and you should feel bad

quartata

I use semicolons in all languages

Quill

@Doorknob unless you're golfing, maybe

Downgoat

but the interpreter checks for either a newline+end of statement or semicolon for a valid line, correct?

how is that different from what JS does?

Geobits

I rarely use them in English, but I sometimes do. I should use more of those things...

quartata

2:16 AM

Although I won't use semicolons in code written by other people that does not use them

R. Kap

I use semicolons in Python all the time when golfing...

Quill

@Downgoat javascript can't often tell when you intend to have a multiline expression instead of a single line expression, so they insert a semicolon and mess you up

Downgoat

@Quill wat, really??

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@q wat language eez dees?

quartata

@QPaysTaxes latter

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

2:18 AM

And it should be the second.

Downgoat

@Quill seems to work fine:

(function(){
	return 2 +
		2
}());

Quill

return
   "<a href='#'>" +
       "<img src='#' />" +
   "</a>";

Downgoat

@Quill why would you do that

why

Quill

so instead you have to do return "" +

quartata

So you guys would make changes to how syntax works but not to how OO or anything like that works?

Quill

2:19 AM

because I have long blocks of HTML and I'd rather not have a return keyword screwing up my psuedo-formatting

@quartata not particularly

quartata

All right. I was curious/interested

Geobits

@quartata I'd change the OO bits, but you wanted input from people who like the language, so I'll stay out of it ;)

Downgoat

@Quill Python has the same behavior

 a():
...   print
...   2+2
...
>>> a()

Quill

@quartata The toString implementation of the object type could probably be improved

Doorknob

... no, that's not the same behavior

Downgoat

2:20 AM

@Doorknob yes it is. While not the same command/function, it is being parsed/executed in the same fashion

quartata

You didn't define the funcrion correctly anyways...?

Downgoat

ah whoops, messed up my copy+paste

Doorknob

@Downgoat no it's not

Downgoat

>>> def a():
...   print
...   2+2
...
>>> a()

>>>

@Doorknob really? how?

quartata

@Geobits I'm happy for input from you guys as long as it isn't "destroy JS and seal the remains in lead"

Alex A.

2:23 AM

@quartata Destroy JS and seal the remains in cadmium.

Helka Homba

Is anyone in here not developing a new language?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

You?

Alex A.

I am but I don't talk about it in here.

Helka Homba

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ yes

Downgoat

@HelkaHomba You, I don't think Doorkno, Quill, or Geobits are making any languages

(though I may be wrong)

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

2:24 AM

Yes you aren't or yes you are?

I'm not

I'm making Pytek.

@quartata oh, yeah

Well, team effort but

Maltysen

@Downgoat i'm reimplementing a language :P

quartata

2:26 AM

I think he meant actual languages

Downgoat

@Maltysen eh... I guess that counts

quartata

@Dwngoat By the way I'm surprised you did not use prototype inheritance for Cheddar

Helka Homba

Better question: Has a day gone by in TNB in the past month when a picture of an animal was not posted?

Downgoat

@quartata prototypes are confusing

@HelkaHomba probably?

Maltysen

@Downgoat i'm surprised to hear you say that

Downgoat

2:27 AM

@Maltysen why?

quartata

@Downgoat They can work if they are implemented correctly.

Maltysen

@Downgoat I thought you worshipped js or something

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Helka Homba

@Downgoat You should know. Half of them are your goats

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@HelkaHomba No.

Downgoat

2:28 AM

does my avatar count?

quartata

They were the first form of OO

Helka Homba

no

Downgoat

@quartata true, bur I think class based inheritance is much more clear. More people are more familiar with it

@Maltysen I like ES6 which has sane classes. I compile it with Babel™

quartata

Babel™©®

Helka Homba

@quartata Code Review = ©®?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

2:33 AM

How do I copy a list in python?

Helka Homba

x = list(myList)

iirc

Doorknob

746

Q: How to clone or copy a list in Python?

What are the options to clone or copy a list in Python? Using new_list = my_list then modifies new_list every time my_list changes. Why is this?

First Google result for "python copy list"

quartata

copy.deepcopy

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

That doesn't work.

If I modify the copy, the original one changes also.

Helka Homba

What's in the list that you're copying?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

2:35 AM

Ints

l=[1, 2, 3]
a=l[:]
a[0] = 7
print a == l

prints True

Doorknob

>>> l=[1,2,3]
>>> a=l[:]
>>> a[0] = 7
>>> a
[7, 2, 3]
>>> l
[1, 2, 3]

I dunno what you're doing, then...

Helka Homba

^

Downgoat

maybe different Python versions?

Helka Homba

prints false for me

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

o_0 It changed.

It prints False now.

Doorknob

2:37 AM

Your computer is haunted

Kenny Lau

just use a recursion?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Weird.

Quill

@Downgoat I don't know how to make one

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Your Python must of gotten infected with JS for a second

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@Downgoat What would that print in JS?

Downgoat

2:38 AM

false

(assuming you translated it to JS syntax)

> l=[1, 2, 3]
a=l.slice()
a[0] = 7
a == l
< false

Geobits

@Downgoat I'm proud to be included in this group.

Downgoat

@Geobits I don't think very many people are making languages

Geobits

@Downgoat I think that depends on your definition of 'many': meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/6918/14215

50ish answers there.

quartata

Real languages no. Esolangs yes

Downgoat

I meant as in "real languages", at the current moment

Geobits

2:41 AM

Oh. I guess then you'd have to define 'real' :P

If only the creator actually uses it day-to-day, is it real?

Downgoat

@Geobits No, I don't need to

Geobits

I smell a No True Scotsman coming...

Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes JS can be considered a "real" language, but not necessarily a good one

Quill

uh no

Alex A.

@Geobits You can smell Scottish people from a distance?

Geobits

2:44 AM

@AlexA. Not true ones.

Quill

@QPaysTaxes then trash it properly, don't use faulty ammo :p

Alex A.

You can sniff out a false Scotsman a mile away!

Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes think what you want about its origins, but it has non-estortic syntax and is OO, so it's pretty obviously a real language.

Geobits

@Quill Hey, even blanks can hurt and/or kill people on occasion ;)

Alex A.

Like Brandon Lee?

I guess that wasn't a blank though

Geobits

2:46 AM

Yea, more like a blank firing into another round. Bizarre accident, that.

Quill

@QPaysTaxes but those bullets are really heavy and really outdated though ;p

Geobits

At point blank range, the concussive force of the escaping gasses causes plenty of trauma. This was demonstrated to my satisfaction while qualifying on pistols in the military.

Really. The instructor shot an apple and turned it into half an apple. It's enough that I wouldn't want to be the apple, if nothing else.

@QPaysTaxes Good.

It has to be really close though. I think anything more than a couple inches and nothing would happen.

Quill

the pistols were always fun ;) I liked the desert eagle the best

Geobits

Oh that was just a 9mm beretta.

@Quill They really are more fun than the rifles we got to shoot :)

Alex A.

I've never operated a firearm and I'm okay with that

Geobits

2:56 AM

@QPaysTaxes I never got to shoot those :(

@AlexA. Oh I don't own a gun now. I do have a healthy respect for them though.

Alex A.

Why is it a little sad...?

Quill

@AlexA. It's good fun in a range, I suppose. Each to their own though

New Main Posts

0

Q: Negative base conversion

We already have a base conversion question, but not one with negative bases (nope, this doesn't count). (Corresponding wiki article.) You will receive a number (may be negative) and a base (must be negative), and your task is to convert the number into the base. The base will only be from -10 ...

code-golf base-conversion

Alex A.

I've also never kayaked and I don't plan to do that either

Quill

it's pretty fun, cause you get to push others out of their kayaks and watch them flip out. hilarious every time

Geobits

2:59 AM

I wouldn't say it's sad, but ultimately I think it's better to know how to properly use one, just in case, than having to at some point and not knowing how.

I kayaked for the first time a few months ago. Pretty fun, even on the calm rivers around here.

Sp3000

@Agawa001 Hm?

Alex A.

Hm indeed

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

You know you're bad at golf when you find yourself typing this:

a[x][y]=sum(l[j][k]if j in r and k in c and l[j][k]>0 else 0 for j,k in[[x-1,0],[x+1,0],[0,y+1],[0,y-1]])

A Nerd - I

Hi

Downgoat

Hello @ANerd-I!

Sp3000

3:06 AM

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ For one thing, +(j in r and k in c and l[j][k]>0)and l[j][k] or something, but without context it's too hard

quartata

Which, at one point, led to a study showing that LSD produces no more hallucinations than a placebo.

3

Downgoat

that is JavaScript's mascot

._.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

HAI

A Nerd - I

3:21 AM

Ugh wrong link from random

And every day it gets harder to fight the urge to su to the user and freak people out.

This was deep

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Hello

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

BAI

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ bye!

Hahaha, JS's slogan is "From fire". I don't know if that's good or bad

Quill

-1

Q: Big Problm Cod won't ron

Help! This cod doesnt run! When i put it in cmd on my apple tv, it doesnt go! It also nevur wrks if u mak it in scratch! her ti is: <!DOCTYPE xhtml>; sudo apt-get ye else 1 does not = 1 { int main() { public static void mian() {{{ systemoutprintline("wrking") SELCT ...

obfuscation steganography

Downgoat

@Quill pretty sure it's a spambot

> When i put it in cmd on my apple tv, it doesnt go! It also nevur wrks if u mak it in scratch!

wat

A Nerd - I

3:38 AM

My favorite is this: Console.WriteLine("dis wrks!")

Also, I think It hink it mihgt beh a spacing issu? has the potential to become a meme for code that doesn't work or code that you don't understand

Quill

What does the brainfuck evaluate to?

A Nerd - I

@Quill Hello World!

Quill

oh wowe

Undeleted, btw

It was deleted by the author originally

it fix. appl tv screen were cracked by sister. replace apple tv and wrk — Jesus Neville 41 secs ago

Alex A.

Why go nonstandard?

Oh interesting

Quill

@AlexA. Yeah, you kinda make it hard for default code syntax highlighters

Sp3000

3:51 AM

@QPaysTaxes cough discard"""...""" (Nim)

Quill

well you could use emojis as comment characters

Exactly! Damn, that was smart.

Helka Homba

@QPaysTaxes Personally I'd vote for making them as easy to type as possible. No shift keys required and only one char each if possible, e.g. [ and ] as in Shtriped. Brackets are of course important elsewhere but the point stands. Being able to super quickly comment out blocks of code is very useful

or maybe //...\\

backslash escapes when I'm not trying to :/

/` `/ isn't so bad

yeah

Alex A.

@QPaysTaxes Well SQL uses -- and I think Lua uses something similar to Haskell's block comments...

@Sp3000 For real? o_O

Sp3000

Lua is --[[...--]] or something

And yes, for real because Nim doesn't have a real multiline comment syntax (like Python)

^^ apparently that's for 5.1+ yeah

Helka Homba

@QPaysTaxes I'd also vote to make them nestable, like Haskell

Sp3000

4:00 AM

Elm uses {- .. -}, but that's because it's a bit inspired by Haskell

Helka Homba

Not really, if removing block comments is the first parsing step

ah, right

Quill

Flight Facilities - Stand Still feat. Micky Green

►

Sp3000

You could almost do a whole quiz based on comment syntaxes. Too bad there isn't a strawquiz though

(or maybe that's for the better?)

Cyoce

4:16 AM

wooh!

just got dropped a FN chainmail. 4 whole dollars! best drop ever

Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes /* ... */

Cyoce

@QPaysTaxes factory new (best condition)

Quill

nice

Ashwin Gupta

YES!!!!!

I'M A TOTAL DUMBASS!!!!!

I figured it out :D

if (!(y >= this.y - 25 && y <= this.y + 25)) flag = false;
if (!(x >= this.x - 25 && y <= this.x + 25)) flag = false;

problem was the 2nd condition of the 2nd if statement, it said y<this.x+25

Downgoat

@AshwinGupta \o/\ o/ \o/ \o/!

Also, +10 for using JS :D :D :D

Ashwin Gupta

4:28 AM

@Downgoat :D

Maybe I should try attacking my problems more at 9:30 at night

Downgoat

@AshwinGupta that is when I do most of my code :P the rest of the day I waste my time here and on PPCG

Ashwin Gupta

@Downgoat aren't you in HS?

Doesn't your hw take awhile and stuff? lol

Downgoat

@AshwinGupta no, not yet :P

should an array's item be evaluated when it's accessed for the first time or when the array is declared?

Quill

@PythonDevs There's still a python bounty going on @EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ's question:

6

Q: Fuzzy Octo Guacamole interpreter

This is my code that interprets my own golfing and esoteric language, Fuzzy-Octo-Guacamole. It has 2 stacks to store information in, and various operations can be performed on each stack, or both at once. This is also my first real project using classes, so any advice on how I did would be much...

python python-2.7 stack interpreter language-design

Downgoat

@Quill oh, I got a really big improvement to suggest

stop using Python 2

Quill

4:42 AM

nice

Downgoat

@QPaysTaxes >:( don't steal my ideas!

well I guess I never said it....

@Quill can I do that?

Quill

do what?

Sp3000

I'll get to it later if I have time...

Downgoat

@Quill use PEP8

@QPaysTaxes I hopefully will out-review you :P

Quill

Sure, you just might want to expand on your answer a little more than that if you hope not to get downvoted

Ashwin Gupta

4:48 AM

@Downgoat is it possible for me to split my JS code into multiple files? It's getting messy all in this one file.

Except I need to be able to acess things from the other file, so like java has import, I need to be able to do something like that.

@Downgoat oh you in MS like me?

Quill

@AshwinGupta requirejs.org

Downgoat

@AshwinGupta I'd recommend using babel+ES6+browserify, but that's probably over-complicating it. Create a global namespace, or object such as window.MyApp = {};. You can keep all of your apps functions/code in functions in that namespace, and that'll be easier. Then just import the multiple JS files

or you can use what Quill suggested too

@Quill how long does a review usually have to be? Can it just be like two or three nitpicks?