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Eridan
Eridan
2:00 AM
@Skyl3r Jon Skeet
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
Well, sizecoding challenges would exclude eso/golf -langs per se.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
I think challenges are interesting when the content is meaningful and the problem is fun and nontrivial. I'd rather see an interesting challenge that can be solved in one byte by a golfing language than an uninteresting challenge in which Java is competitive.
 
Eridan
Eridan
@AlexA. If Java is competitive in a challenge, I think the uninteresting-ness of the challenge is not your biggest problem.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
If the challenge is "Hello World" or "Program that only executes once" then hell with it, throw the esos in
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
The whole thing seems like a nonissue to me. But then again, I play to have fun, not to win the green check mark. Because I won't win the green check mark. And that's fine, I care very little.
 
Nathan Merrill
Nathan Merrill
2:01 AM
I think the biggest reason to exclude golfing languages is not to make certain languages competitive. Java will never win, and Perl would frequently win. However, excluding golfing languages would help newer visitors feel like they can join our site and compete
3
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
It's the challenging thought provoking problems that I'd rather see real languages in
Good point @NathanMerrill
 
feersum
feersum
You rarely see golfing languages answers to the very difficult challenges.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
I disagree. I don't think there's anything fundamentally off-putting about golfing languages. When I first joined the community I was actually really intrigued by them and it made me want to stay and learn more.
It varies person to person.
 
Nathan Merrill
Nathan Merrill
@AlexA. it depends on the person. We've already seen a lot of people that are offput by it
 
feersum
feersum
They presumably scale poorly due to the lack of variable names or any other way for the programmer to keep track of the computations.
 
Nathan Merrill
Nathan Merrill
2:03 AM
ninja'd
 
xnor
xnor
it seems like the most common use of golf langs is to scoop up easy to medium challenges that they have the right built ins and constructs to do directly
 
Eridan
Eridan
Wasn't there a user who quit once because of esolangs? I think one of the reasons they gave was that normal languages were being wrecked by esolangs, and they cited the 0-byte Stuck "Hello, World!" as an example.
 
xnor
xnor
@Eridan this post seems to imply multiple users left a long time ago, but it's not clear if it's just for argument:
104
Q: J and GolfScript suck all the enjoyment out of Code Golf

TimwiI have found code-golf a fascinating pastime for several weeks now. However, I’m already losing interest because the contests allow any language, and because of that it is pretty much impossible for anything other than J or GolfScript to get anywhere close to winning. As soon as I see a less-tha...

discussion code-golf
@Timwi I'm curious what your feelings on golfing languages are now, years after your highly-voted meta post
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
There's no way to gauge how many people stay because of esolangs, we can only get a rough idea of how many people leave because of them.
 
xnor
xnor
@AlexA. how do we do that?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
2:06 AM
@xnor That won't ping him; it's been too long since he's been in here.
 
Nathan Merrill
Nathan Merrill
"But that's just the nature of the challenge. We're comparing apples to avocados, and deciding the winner based on the number of seeds. They're both still delicious"
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@xnor Do what?
 
Eridan
Eridan
56
Q: Why I am leaving Code Golf

user43512The contents of this post are solicited opinion that I have been asked by a Code Golf moderator to share with you. I understand "If you don't like it, then GEETTT OOUUTT" applies here, so I have already submitted my account for deletion. I joined Code Golf because the challenge of fulfilling ...

discussion
 
xnor
xnor
@AlexA. get a rough idea of how many people leave
 
feersum
feersum
Don't forget not joining in the first place. I suspect that's a larger factor than leaving.
 
xnor
xnor
2:06 AM
not everyone is going to make a fuss
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
I know
When I said "rough idea" I meant rough idea.
How many people stay is immeasurable. We at least know that at least X people have left, based on the meta posts
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Avocados are not good.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
You take that back.
 
Nathan Merrill
Nathan Merrill
Downgoat, why did you hijack the post?
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
I've actually only tried guacamole and it was awful. I've never had plain avocados.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
2:10 AM
Guacamole can be the most amazing thing in the universe, but when it's bad it's really bad.
Plain avocados are yummy as fuck, son.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
My ex made some for me. I had to suffer through it to please her
Then she was my ex.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
The guac was too bad, you had to call the whole thing off?
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Oh yeah. Absolutely.
I said sayonara after that.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
Find someone who can make amazing guacamole.
You'll live happily ever after.
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ

Chatgoat really likes avocad

35 secs ago, 6 seconds total – 4 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 7 secs ago by Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ

 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
2:13 AM
Hmm, I have doubts about that, but I'll keep an eye out.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
If there's one stranger on the internet you can trust, it's me. >_>
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Very true. Alex has never been known to be wrong >_>
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
>_>
 
xnor
xnor
@AlexA. how do I know if a user is pingable?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
Their name will autocomplete
Yes
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:14 AM
And no, you can not quote that without the shifty-eyes later @Alex
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
If there's one stranger I can trust and it's you then another stranger agrees... What does this mean?
 
xnor
xnor
thanks
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
np bb
@Skyl3r Contradiction, everything you've ever known and loved is a lie.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Good thing he didn't love guac. If that was a lie...
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
He could never be forgiven.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
2:16 AM
This is getting too deep.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
... and I'm trying to keep, up above in my head, instead of going under.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@SetBigO Is this a Sum 41 reference?
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Umm. Yes?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
I haven't heard them in so, so long.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Is it bad to be a linguistic purist?
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:20 AM
Everything in moderation.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
No.
EVERYTHING IN extreme amounts.
except cAPSLOCK
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
I have a hard time accepting QQ being a crying face. It's supposed to mean "Go rage quit"
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Q_Q
I use ;_; or ;-;
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Linguistic purists don't usually debate the meanings of emoticons, in my experience.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Same
 
feersum
feersum
2:22 AM
@Skyl3r be QQing about the definition of QQ.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
QQ isn't an emoticon.
Well
It's not supposed to be
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@_@
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
It's not exactly linguistically pure either, though. That's my point.
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
in Beep Boop Maggot, 2 mins ago, by Chatgoat
@WᴏᴛADᴏɴɢ fuck you
What have I done...
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
woah buddy
:P
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
2:23 AM
@feersum What you said could mean "Skyl3r be rage quitting ..." or "Skyl3r be crying..."
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Chatgoat's gonna get himself suspended and Marky won't have anyone to play with.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
This is the problem..
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
It's less of a problem if you don't acknowledge either meaning.
 
feersum
feersum
You're still here...so you can tell it means crying :P
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
> I am a dumb goat / chatbot. I may say stupid things so please don't suspend me if I say something bad
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:24 AM
Lots of words and acronyms have more than one meaning. That's where context comes into play.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
That's an assumption that I don't rage quit other places
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
And if there's not enough context, it's just ambiguous and you should say something else instead (assuming you want to be clear).
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Yeah
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
This is like complaining that bank has multiple meanings imo.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Can you use bank to mean multiple things in the same context?
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:26 AM
> I went to the bank.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
I go to the bank
ninja'd
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
What are the various interpretations of that?
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
money bank
river bank
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Ah, I see
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
So if you aren't sure your message is clear, be more specific and type out rage quit. It's far more effective that way anyway :P
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
2:27 AM
Or, if you want to be 100% unambiguous, learn Lojban :P
 
feersum
feersum
I find the idea of an unambigous language silly.
If people actually spoke that' I'm sure they would inject ambiguity and innuendo all over the place.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
It does seem a bit silly at first, but I find it quite fascinating actually
@feersum there are people who actually speak it :P
 
feersum
feersum
I mean the idea that the language used can enforce clear communication.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
I suppose four persons does count as people...
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ

Chatgoat has a little too much attitude

1 min ago, 1 minute total – 18 messages, 4 users, 1 star

Bookmarked just now by Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ

 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
2:29 AM
The easiest language to learn, as a native english speaker, that I've found is Bahasa
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
@SetBigO Four is probably pretty close to the number of fluent Lojban speakers that have ever been in a room together physically at the same time
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Where do you find these people?
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
plentyoffish.com
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
@feersum The grammatical rules of the language enforce lexical and syntactical unambiguity. But you can be semantically ambiguous.
 
feersum
feersum
Well OK, you could fix a few stupid things like "you" having the same singular and plural.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
2:31 AM
@feersum in Lojban, singular and plural doesn't exist
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@feersum That's not a bug, it's a feature.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
Well, it's "optional" in that you usually don't specify it
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
There used to be singular/plural, and we long ago decided it was dumb for 'you'. Unfortunately we kept it for everything else.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
{lo prenu} means "the person/the people," but you can say {pa lo prenu} (one person) or {su'ore lo prenu} (at-least-2 people)
 
Dennis
Dennis
@Liam Please rescore my submission when you have time. I made a pretty significant improvement.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
2:32 AM
I need a "wershcloth"
This always bothered me to.
too*
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
A what?
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
wash cloth. People from... the south? pronounce it "wersh" instead of "wash"
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
It's a pronunciation thing. Lots of southerners (esp from the alabama/tennessee/kentucky area) say wash as wersh.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
I live in Texas and I've never heard that :P
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Texas has its own issues, tyvm.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
2:34 AM
I do not deny this
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
That's like pseudosouth
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
haha
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
I hear it far more in the appalachian area than anywhere else.
Think Beverly Hillbillies south, not Texas "south".
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@Skyl3r Midwest
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
^
@Skyl3r state?
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:38 AM
@AlexA. I've lived in several places in the south. Let me assure you it happens there as well.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@SetBigO current state?
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
@EasterlyIrk Hmm?
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Where are you living currently?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@SetBigO I'm sorry to hear that you've lived in several places in the south. :P
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Ohio
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
2:39 AM
Okay.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@EasterlyIrk Currently Florida, and there's a bit of it here, but not as much. I have relatives in Alabama, though, and they have it thick.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
lol
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@AlexA. QQ
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
in Beep Boop Maggot, 38 secs ago, by Chatgoat
@WᴏᴛADᴏɴɢ do you want to be made into goat curry?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
Jesus
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
2:39 AM
@SetBigO s/QQ/Q_Q
@AlexA. ... isn't Godly Curry.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
That QQ was very much typed that way on purpose.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Q_Q
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
It means "quaint qualities."
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
like wershiness?
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
That's the wersh joke ever.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
2:41 AM
Wershure about that?
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Wershchercher sauce.
I hate that word.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
I like it because I can annoy people by saying war-chest-er-shire.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
> war chest
Like the pectorals on the people in movies like 300?
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
> a reserve of funds used for fighting a war.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Biceps aren't really chest :/
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
2:44 AM
Is there a dialect where people pronounce "dollar" different?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
Yeah, it's British English, and they say "pound."
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
@SetBigO I don't know what you're talking about. My arms are fully attached to my chest.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
A pound isn't a dollar though
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Besides dolla?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
Dolla dolla bill y'all
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
2:44 AM
@Skyl3r bucks in america
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@Skyl3r It was a yolk
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
I mean a different pronunciation of the word "dollar"
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@AlexA. A crackin' good one, too.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Maybe australia?
@Quill how do you pronounce 'dollar'?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@SetBigO Fry thank you
 
Liam
Liam
2:45 AM
@Dennis Will do. I'll rescore it as well as the new java entry tomorrow.
I'm working on memoizing a rust entry right now
 
Quill
Quill
@EasterlyIrk what
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
@SetBigO don't egg him on
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@AlexA. If you had really wanted to thank me, you'd have responded with another egg-based pun :(
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@Quill How do you prounounce 'dollar' in australia?
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
("egg on" was very low-hanging fruit. :P)
 
Quill
Quill
2:46 AM
we speak english
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Like 'dollar', 'dolla\' ', or something else?
 
Quill
Quill
personal choice, I'd assume
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Do some people naturally pronounce it dolla'?
 
Quill
Quill
no, cause that makes you sound like an idiot
3
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
haha
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:47 AM
Some people here do. But again, the idiot thing.
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
@NathanMerrill Here goes nothing
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@Quill okai i is idiot i say dolla
 
Quill
Quill
There's not some weird australian dialect of english, just double the frequency of sware words and "mate"
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
@Quill, I have a friend from Australia that uses hoolly doolly (not sure how you'd spell it) to mean "Oh my lord" or something to that effect. Have you heard this before?
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
> sware
 
Quill
Quill
2:48 AM
@Skyl3r yeah, rarely, but sometimes
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
Didn't we have a sizecoding proposal before?
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
^
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Really? haha I wonder where that came from. He's adamant that it's an American thing.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@Quill The hell there isn't. I worked with Aussie military, and the difference was quite noticeable ;)
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
lol
 
Quill
Quill
2:49 AM
These days every english speaking country is infected by American culture and language
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
@SetBigO The question is linked.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Infected, eh/
?
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@SetBigO in what way?
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@mınxomaτ Why would I read and click on stuff in the first sentence, though? >_>
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
ikr :D
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:50 AM
@EasterlyIrk As in it takes a couple days hanging out with them to understand more than one in three words.
 
Maltysen
Maltysen
@mınxomaτ this looks good, you have my +1
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
It could be a military thing, dunno.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
"Wow mate, that's wizard. Oh hoolly doolly, what's happening over there?"
This stuff was really baffling at first.
 
Quill
Quill
Jesus, straight out of crocodile dundee
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@SetBigO lol
@Quill rofl
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:53 AM
@Quill Crocodile Dundee was far more intelligible than the guys I met :P
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
Quill Dundee
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@SetBigO you were in the military or government person?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
Crocodile Quill
@EasterlyIrk Air Force
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Cool.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@EasterlyIrk Yea, for ten years or so.
 
Dennis
Dennis
2:54 AM
@mınxomaτ Peter Taylor expressed concerns about the "reproduce-ability" of the actual binary code, which is exactly why size coding entries are scored by file size, not code size. I don't understand that sentence. Unless I misunderstood something, the problem is that the same source code could yield different machine code on different computers.
 
Quill
Quill
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
I was kinda wondering about that too.
 
Quill
Quill
For those unaware of the film, watch it
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
@Dennis This is why the binary is what counts. The source code is almost irrelevant.
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
@Quill > SyntaxError: /Users/vihan/Downloads/SE-Chat-Terminal-master-2/config.json: Unexpected token r
why is that error occuring on the chat terminal
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
2:55 AM
@Quill Are Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin national treasures for you?
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
@Dennis But those familiar with size coding are used to including it, so I didn't want to change that.
 
Maltysen
Maltysen
@mınxomaτ Dennis is saying that the binary can be different on different computers, so how would you measure them
 
Quill
Quill
@AlexA. yeah, just like Super Size Me is an american treasure
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Is socialism or atheism more perverse in politics?
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@Skyl3r Atheism, by far.
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
2:56 AM
@Quill There is no compiling involved. The host will score and test the submitted binaries. cc @Dennis
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@Quill No, ours is more Idiocracy nowadays ;)
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
At least in American politics.
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
@AlexA. American is what I'm referring to.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@Skyl3r Define perverse in this context.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
2:57 AM
Are you under 13?
 
Maltysen
Maltysen
@mınxomaτ ohhh you might want to clarify that
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
Hoody dooly is innappropriate? o_O :P
 
Dennis
Dennis
@mınxomaτ Requiring source code to be submitted seems unnecessarily confusing then.
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@AlexA. Yes No.
 
Quill
Quill
@WᴏᴛADᴏɴɢ idk, wtf are you doing in your config
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
2:57 AM
@EasterlyIrk For real?
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
@SetBigO More likely to be viewed negatively or more negatively by the general population
 
Quill
Quill
@EasterlyIrk no
 
Easterly Irk
Easterly Irk
@AlexA. Nah, I'm 13.
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
{
    "debug": false,
    "star_threshold": 5,
    "room_domains": {
        "StackExchange": {
            "rooms: {
                "240": {
                    "name": "The Nineteenth Byte",
                    "room_id": 240
                }
            }
        },
        "MetaStackExchange": {
            "rooms": {
            }
        },
        "StackOverflow": {
            "rooms": {
            }
        }
    }
}
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
@Dennis I just said why I did that. It has become a standard. Like a drop-in replacement for those who don't wanna type exhaustive explanations.
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
2:57 AM
my config looks normal
 
Quill
Quill
It's bork @WᴏᴛADᴏɴɢ
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
@Maltysen If you have an idea how this could be made any clearer, please edit the post.
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@mınxomaτ How would one submit a binary file over Stack Exchange?
 
Quill
Quill
> "rooms:
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
oh
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
2:58 AM
@Skyl3r Atheism, then, yea. Socialism as a word is bad here, but not the general concepts (if people understood them better).
 
Skyl3r
Skyl3r
Understood socialists better?
 
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
Wᴏᴛ A Dᴏɴɢ
    var initialRoomId = initialRoom.room_id;
                                   ^

TypeError: Cannot read property 'room_id' of undefined
@Quill why is this happening
 
Alex A.
Alex A.
@Skyl3r Socialism, yes.
 
Set Big O
Set Big O
@Skyl3r Basically. Many people use/hear it as a scare word associated with fascism and/or communism.
 
Dennis
Dennis
@mınxomaτ Well, I disagree with that. If you require source code, that source code has to provably generate the binary. If that cannot be verified, there's the reproducibility issue again.
 
Helka Homba
Helka Homba
2:59 AM
Some equate socialism with communism
 
mınxomaτ
mınxomaτ
@AlexA. As a hex dump would be my suggestion. They can be reverted to binaries pretty easily. However, I wouldn't impose a standard on the contestants.
 
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