The Nineteenth Byte

Aug 22 at 0:17, by Dennis

> GNU Emacs ported to Android! If Emacs segfaults try changing font size.

what does the emacs graph thing actually mean?

that it doesn't actual get to that level of usefulness

so that part is undefined?

That's the thing about snark. It doesn't have to make all that much sense for people to agree with it.

@DestructibleWatermelon It's actually useful just it's impossible to learn to use it efficiently with a modern keyboard

and they aren't any labels on the graph. Perhaps we're measuring the percentage of people that use their editor in dark mode against the number years its been out.

5:03 AM

@ASCII-only s/(to learn to|it|with.*)//g

and emacs has like 30 dark modes, so its hard to graph :P

IntelliJ > Vim > Nano > Poop > Emacs

just asking

is poop actually an editor?

because I imagine it will become one some time if it isn't

Yeah, but to exit poop you have to push a bunch of stuff at once.

So it's no better or worse than vim really

No, Poop is an esolang.

5:05 AM

I need to learn how to make an application so poop will be a text editor

Can you pull Poop?

I don't think TIO has poop

Poop belongs to the small group of languages I'd never add to TIO.

@Dennis I imagine it would actually be sizable given the amount of BF derivatives

I have no issues with BF derivatives, but that one's just childish.

5:08 AM

at least they at least put some effort in

esolangs.org/wiki/There_Once_was_a_Fish_Named_Fred

Unary also won't make the cut, but for entirely different reasons.

this guy didn't even make the example program, just converted it from the one on BF

You'd need a fairly large disk for unary programs >_>

And a way to prevent Chrome from craching when you try to write the program...

When I said BF derivatives, I mostly meant the really crap ones

like ones that are just BF but with different symbols

5:10 AM

Any bf language that's just text replacement is crap.

Poop <==> crap

What?

I also do not like the people who are like

"Hmmm, what do. Maybe I'll make an esolang"

@DestructibleWatermelon Tux and Conor will be very offended

Also everyone else who makes esolangs for fun

you didn't get the rest of the context

5:12 AM

@KritixiLithos Less than, equal to, or greater than? :P

@ASCII-only I make esolangs for fun

I just don't like it when people just add a single command to BF and clog up esolangs.org

@Geobits The equilibrium sign or the double arrow

That's big.

@DestructibleWatermelon well this is what you get for spreading a message over three messages :P

It's like this: "I'm gonna make an interesting esolang. Huh, I don't know anything. Maybe I'll make BF more interesting by adding an extra command. Hooray I'm a cool haxxor"

5:15 AM

@DestructibleWatermelon I just had an idea for brainhaxxor. Thanks!

;_; better be not as trivial as Ook!

I think we all know it'll be more trivial than that.

Maybe I should just make one where the regular bf symbols are just ROT-3'd so they make no logical sense at all.

esolangs.org/wiki/I_hate_your_bf-derivative_really_I_do

I just discovered that a Window 10 test machine is running in an upgrade loop. It downloaded the 4GB upgrade at least 40 times per day >.> ...

For like a week.

O.O

5:22 AM

@Dennis Dammit. I should've known somebody had already done it though.

@Geobits that isn't what you suggested though

Not exactly, but close enough (in purpose) for me to not bother.

not really

The whole point of mine is summed up well just by the title of that one.

IT's like the opposite

That one is non bf related esolang

that appears to be bf

yours is the kind of bf derivative the title refers to

but anyway

Why am I telling you this? I don't want you to make a bad bf derivative

5:27 AM

Every time I find myself inexplicably visiting Facebook, I'm amazed how slow and ridiculous the UI is.

@DestructibleWatermelon Don't worry. If there's one thing you don't have to worry about, it's me making an esolang.

@mınxomaτ It's almost usable on mobile now, but yes.

Yknow

I wonder what esolang people would derive from if BF didn't exist

@DestructibleWatermelon BF

Someone would inevitably create BF

...

if it didn't exist

@DestructibleWatermelon They would derive from a BF substitution derivative

5:30 AM

...

y u do dis ;_;

Because BF is literally inevitable

If it didn't exist, there would still be a very similar language with a limited instruction set to derive from.

Jeez

stop being so pedantic

Yes - maybe it would have different memory, but definitely loops + moving in memory + increment/decrement

@DestructibleWatermelon Brain-Flak

But it's kinda like saying "if wheels weren't round, I wonder what shape they'd be?"

5:32 AM

not really

Triangles

@Geobits They would be ~~square~~ linear obviously

@DestructibleWatermelon Not exactly, but...

more like, if cars didn't exist, what kind of motor vehicle would be most common

(and yes, I know there are non-round wheels)

5:32 AM

except that the answer is more obvious to that one

Cars are far more complex than bf though.

Humans have a knack for inventing the same things repeatedly. BF would've been made sooner or later.

True. I guess even the car example works, because it's not like one guy invented "a car" in isolation. IIRC there were three or four that all came out around the same time, across different continents.

@Geobits But they were based on the same techology

Sure, but anyone making an esolang has access to "the same technology" too.

Stuff gets made, and people build on it for the next iterations, until it's new stuff. I don't see any reason to think bf is special.

Would it be exactly the same? Probably not, no more than cars would be exactly the same now if something had gone differently along the line. But very similar? I think so.

5:50 AM

Anyone know a good non-ASCII Unicode symbol to use for Count?

C

That is not unicode

@ASCII-only Sure it is. fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0043/index.htm

Unicode is not just "weird symbol things"

Yeah, well, not what I meant by Unicode

How would we know what you mean?

Unicode is literally pretty well defined.

5:53 AM

@mınxomaτ I fixed the message ages ago :(

ç

@ASCII-only I replied to your "That is not unicode", which is wrong.

I don't have a suggestion.

@ASCII-only There's a vampire proposed for addition in 2017. That seems appropriate.

@mınxomaτ Oh

You know

5:54 AM

@Geobits :D but I'm not going to wait until sometime next year to add a vital builtin

when i said "I wonder what esolang people would derive from if BF didn't exist", I wasn't trying to start a conversation about BF would have been invented

*non-ASCII, non-letterlike Unicode

I was talking about if it was not

# but that's not non-ASCII either

@DestructibleWatermelon I already said Brain-Flak

5:55 AM

I'm surprised there's no "123" unicode symbol.

@Angs Yeah, I'm reserving ASCII for strings

I still like that vampire idea though :(

Brain-flak is relatively recent, really

@DestructibleWatermelon Doesn't mean it would have been relatively recent if BF didn't exist

Unless you're asking "What was the next popular esolang after BF"

They would just derive from some other simple, limited instruction language that would probably function similarly.

5:56 AM

⧣ (0x29e3)

0

Manoeuvre the grid! atomic-code-golf math You are a bot, in a 2D plane of squares that extends infinitely in all four directions, north, south, east and west. When given a number, you must move the bot so that you get to the target number. Here's how the grid works: You can move in 4 direction...

quetsion: why does it say 173k here?

chat.stackexchange.com/users/37160/dennis

It's the combined SE rep of all the sites

oh

What should the teams be for my Koth?

6:12 AM

Vim vs Emacs

I was thinking "Reviewers" and "Golfers" maybe

@KritixiLithos Who would want be on emacs team?

5

Qwerp-Derp

^*8 look at my post pls

@ASCII-only btw, in what sense do you mean by Count

@Angs list.count(item)

@Qwerp-Derp hi

6:21 AM

🔢 works but it's not in the BMP :(

6:31 AM

:)

@Qwerp-Derp please are you there?

@ASCII-only subset sign, ⊂

@Angs ?

@Qwerp-Derp help me with the koth mebbe?

For Count, since the list with only item is a subset of list

But it might be confusing since they aren't strictly sets in the mathematical sense

also the current system I have planned for the koth doesn't work very well for receiving damage

6:37 AM

@Angs But Count isn't exactly the same as Subset

e.g. 'foo'.count('o') gives 2

which lang?

@DestructibleWatermelon What do you mean

the one you are talking about the count builtin

@DestructibleWatermelon it seems like multisets/bags use the same subset notation as sets. And if the subset only contains item, only it's size (count) is relevant information.

@ASCII-only I mean

@DestructibleWatermelon Charcoal, which other esolang do I work on? :P

orlp

6:47 AM

in C, is there a shorter way of writing x&0xffff? There is x&65535 which is one shorter, but is that the shortest?

@orlp What type is x?

orlp

@DLosc unsigned

or int

whatever is shorter

Depending on your implementation, if you can find a type (possibly unsigned short) that is 2 bytes, you don't need that operation at all. (Of course, typing out unsigned short might waste all the bytes you saved and then some... YMMV.)

Otherwise, I'm not coming up with anything, except x%65536 which is the same length.

In Python: x&2**16 same length

@betseg You mean x%2**16, I think.

6:56 AM

uint16_t may work, but IDK if it's shorter

@DLosc Orlp wrote &

@betseg But that was with 65535, i.e. 2**16-1.

Ah k

Wait nvm, looks like that requires <inttypes.h>/<stdint.h>

Oliver

7:12 AM

hiiieeee

"... thee to a nunnery!"

Calvin's Hobbies

Important question: Cup Noodles vs. Top Ramen

@GamrCorps Is my Convex explanation here correct?

Q: Friday 11/11/2016 11:11:11PM PST

-1

As of posting this question, the date/time was: Friday 11/11/2016 11:11:11PM PST Wow, such a rare occurrence! This definitely deserves a challenge made for it! Your task is to print the following: 11/11 11:11:11 Additional rules: Trailing spaces are allowed Trailing newlines are allowe...

7:27 AM

@Oliver the output is probably too short and structureless for any meaningless golfing.

*meaningful

I still answered the challenge

orlp

anyone here know his ipv4?

in the ip address challenge it lists two subnets:

224.0.0.0/4

and

240.0.0.0/4

I don't understand, aren't these the same?

>>> bin(224)
'0b11100000'

>>> bin(240)
'0b11110000'

oh wait is this an endianness thing

7:52 AM

Re: the recently closed 11/11 question, it's 10 bytes in Pip: "/ ::"JW11. (Except there's a bug with JW in the current version.)

yo!

8:18 AM

i want to downvote 3 answers to get 2222 rep

Downvote! Downvote!

ok, your answers

:P

Nooooooooo!

Darth Vader NO!

►

8:39 AM

uh

looks like chat died?

DrMcMoylex

Chats always dead at this time

@betseg too late

@DestructibleWatermelon Mon chat, c'est vivant. ;)

English plz

translate.google.com/#fr/en/Mon%20chat%2C%20c'est%20vivant

8:43 AM

wat

also @DrMcMoylex, are you still thinking about using Turtlèd?

there is a 50 rep bounty for a non trivial answer in it

@DestructibleWatermelon waiting for 2345

wat if

downgoat another post >:)

*Downgaot

This hunt the wumpus version is BS

it didn't tell me there was a draught...

wtf

how does this game even work?

wtf this game makes no sense

this game isn't telling me about any of the hazards

this is BS

1/10 not good

it doesn't tell me when I can smell a wumpus

none of these wumpus versions are good

these wumpus versions are awful

8:59 AM

Just because chat is quiet, doesn't mean you have to fill it.

7

still kind of annoying that none of these hunt the wumpus games actually work

9:23 AM

Hooray I found some hunt the wumpus that work on the ppcg challenge that I can run!

9:49 AM

0

Q: Array sorting in java

Got 1 random array A[i] with 20 numburs in it Need to create B[i] and sort arrays A[i] numbers to look like this: A[2] A[4] A[6] A[8] A[10] A[12] A[14] A[16] A[18] A[20] A[1] A[3] A[5] A[7] A[9] A[11] A[13] A[15] A[17] A[19] need to use operators like me here: double A[] = new doub...

code-golf java

10:04 AM

Heya

Yo!

10:23 AM

@TuxCopter?

10:37 AM

@El'endiaStarman non 3b1b math video: youtube.com/watch?v=2MNalT1g3m8

and youtube.com/…

10:55 AM

@El'endiaStarman Good idea! That's a nice generalization of Von Neumann's procedure for generating a 1/2-coin from a p-coin

11:10 AM

Any kids these days here know what in the world the cloud is?

Something white and fluffy in the sky that is made up of water

The cloud is a visible mass of data suspended in the air

Seriously, though.

I can't figure out exactly what the thing does.

Seems like a bit of an industry buzzword to me...

The cloud is someone else's computer.

...but how is that different from the internet?

11:16 AM

The internet is the global network connecting the computers, including your computer and the cloud.

the cloud is just storage space somewhere else

Could be resources for computation too

So the internet connects devices to servers, and the cloud allows you to store/compute things on those servers?

The server basically is the cloud, the key point I think is ownership.

The cloud means you don't buy physical server infrastructure but rent it virtually.

got it, thx

11:26 AM

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ Totally agree

@LuisMendo storj.io

Someone else's computer(s) :-)

11:57 AM

@flawr Edited with the total increase of entropy. What do you think? It fits nicely with the challenge idea ("obey" the law of increasing entropy), and in some sense favour simple initial code

@DestructibleWatermelon ?

0

North by North by North by North by South East code-golf Given a string of N, S, E and W, output a bearing (angle clockwise from North in degrees), correct to 5 decimal places. In traditional compass notation, a combination of only 2 of these characters would be used to describe a direction ...

trichoplax

@LuisMendo I like the new scoring method

Q: Add weight to one side of a see-saw to balance it

12:39 PM

0

Balancing Act A see-saw (supposedly from the French 'ci-ça', meaning 'this-that') forms a third of the holy trinity of playground equipment, along with the similarly ubiquitous slide and swing. A see-saw is in perfect balance if, and only if, the sum of the moments on each side are equivalent. A...

code-golf string physics

@trichoplax Now it better matches the idea of the challenge. I want to make the whole text a little shorter, though. Probably the worked example could be reduced

seshoumara

is there a way to unfroze a chat room?

Martin Ender

Magic image resizing with Mathematica.

8

@seshoumara which one?

seshoumara

bash, sed and dc

it's very small, but we had some talks, plus site feeds specific, I left for 2 weeks and it was frozen

Martin Ender

Link?

seshoumara

12:49 PM

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/44639/…

@MartinEnder Impressive

1

Q: Code ladder, Cops

This is the cops' thread. The robbers' thread goes here. Write a code that outputs the integer 1. If you add, remove or substitute a single character (of your choosing), the code should output the integer 2. Change one more character (the same or another), and the code should output 3. Continue ...

cops-and-robbers

0

Q: Code ladder, Robbers

This is the robbers' thread. The cops' thread goes here. Write a code that has the same or fewer number of bytes as the cop post and where the revealed characters are identical. The code must produce 1 in its initial state, and produce the numbers 2, 3 .. when single alterations are made. The w...

cops-and-robbers

^^ I would have removed the guy as well :-)

@MartinEnder I wonder how well that would work with a forest background

1:08 PM

@LuisMendo Looks great!

@LuisMendo Regarding the calculation of H_inf: I'd suggest that they should just use a H_n such that e.g. the first 2 significant digits do not change anymore if you go to H_{n+1} (but they may of course post a H_n for an arbitrarily great n.) But just to make it a little bit easier. As you already said, there might indeed be cases where you cannot determine H_inf that easily.

@Adnan What does the . operator do in 05AB1E? I don't understand it

@KritixiLithos .ab define a function with the two commands ab

I think

1:24 PM

What then happens to the commands?

Which one gets executed, and which one doesn't?

The two get executed normally

@flawr That's a good idea. But what if H_inf - H_1 is less than 0.01 to begin with? Not sure how to make this general

Windows thought it might be a good idea to just set the system theme to pink on my netbook without asking.

._.

Oh I see, apparently it was part of the "upgrade". Makes .. sense?

1:36 PM

@TuxCopter Apparently, the first command doesn't get executed. I don't know why. Here is a permalink

I don't speak 05AB1E, what do this do?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking

WHat do this should do then?

All I'm asking is what the . does.

gtg

1:46 PM

Bye, see you on the other side

@MartinEnder Woah, that's so cool.

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ The way I personally like to think of it is that the "cloud" is a collection of machines that are used to store data and compute stuff where you don't know which machine and it doesn't matter. Rather like how a real cloud is made up of a bunch of indistinguishable water droplets.

drobilc

21 hours ago, by betseg

Showerthought: Maybe there are creatures that are made of dark matter that look up into the skies at nights, and say to the creature next to it "Hey Botzig, do you think there are creatures that made of dark matter?" https://xkcd.com/1758/

2:06 PM

@mınxomaτ you sure you don't have any office prankers?

I don't think my cache settings are effective.

@NathanMerrill No office pranks. If you start pranking in an IT security firm, all hell breaks loose.

@El'endiaStarman What is rain then? When the machines get stuck together and fall down on our heads???

quartata

@Calvin'sHobbies Little late but Top Ramen

@LuisMendo Well just say take the n such that the first three significant digits of H_n-H_1 do not change anymore.

@flawr Precisely. So if you ever hear of Amazon Rain, run for your life.

2:13 PM

bah, I've got a remaining GUI bug, but I think I'm going to ignore it and post it

@NathanMerrill In your KoTH?

yeah. If you "run" the GUI, you'll get an exception

but I have no idea what's causing it

the stack trace doesn't hit my code at all

and google searches return no results for my error

Use Processing

Better GUI, less gooey

this is Java

and I'm not changing frameworks

Convert it to Processing

2:20 PM

If you switch frameworks every time you get an error, how do you get anything done?

You don't :P

But still, it is easy to convert Java to Processing

I wonder if there's a tool out there that can be adapted to search the TNBDE database for commanding sentences. Probably basically impossible (for now) given the fragmentary and messy nature of TNB messages.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

@El'endiaStarman give me a tool that can simply determine whether a sentence is commanding, and I'll pass the turing test :P

@NathanMerrill Hahaha, yeah...

2:36 PM

What?

Adnan

@KritixiLithos The dot itself does nothing

But if you look at the bottom of info.txt, you can see all the extended functions

Like a two byte command

Oh, ok, I understand. Thanks!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@KritixiLithos that and lmgtfy links are blocked due to an old problem with spamming them on questions.

lmgtfy was more of a rude comment though, that makes a bit more sense.

"lmgtfy"?

Let Me Google That For You

And yes, I briefly considered replying with a lmgtfy link... :P

2:46 PM

0

repetitive? Your challenge is to generate this exact string: 011010110101101001101011010110101101011010110100110101101011010011010110101101011010110101101001101011010110100110101101011010110101101011010011010110101101000011010110101101001101011010110101101011010110100110101101011010011010110101...

@flawr Is it me or does it sound like someone else is talking or there's an echo while he's talking?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

just you methinks

Back

@flawr Neat videos, nonetheless.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It might be the background music.

3:12 PM

0

5 Favorite Letters code-golfascii-artklomgrov-complexity The challenge is actually extremely simple. Pick 5 distinct letters (you can just pick the 5 that allow you the shortest code if you like) and output them to the console. However, the twist is that they must be from the following list: ...

@El'endiaStarman I don't perceive anything like that. Perhaps the background music?

Hmm. I suppose it has some similar quality to speech that activates the same triggers.

Like peppermint activating certain receptors that make it seem like it's cold.

Or eating some mushrooms causes you to see strange things.

Such as eating the corpse of a yellow mold

3:38 PM

Idea: it should be possible to run a Fourier transform on some sort of signal present in TNB's messages. If we try to make this signal roughly correspond to how interesting messages are, that could perhaps generate a quite interesting result.

With the signal being the number of ;_______; in messages? :P

I think the "interestingness" increases with time

TheBitByte

Guys, could we please stop the boring kolmogorov-complexity challenges?

Porting solaris C code is painful.

@KritixiLithos Yes and no. What I think is really happening is that the longer someone is here, the more likely their messages are to be interesting. New users (including myself, a year ago) generally have poorer noise to signal ratios.

3:42 PM

@TheBitByte Says the author of 'Print the letter A without A'

TheBitByte

@TuxCopter That wasn't just normal printing without effort.

@El'endiaStarman I agree. When I was a new user, also about a year ago, I posted a lot of carrots and carets in the middle of conversations without any meaning.

@KritixiLithos Yeah. It could also be interesting to see how the interestingness curve changes for individual users.