The Nineteenth Byte

Downgoat

7:00 PM

@trichoplax I changed to a ghost right before Halloween tho

trichoplax

@Downgoat 6th November was the closest to halloween that NewMainPosts could get me

@MartinEnder Next time I'll come to you and save myself 56 pages of feed posts...

Martin Ender

:P

Anonymous

I'm going to my spooky avatar now :P

Dennis

I'd join you, but I know I'd regret it before Halloween.

muddyfish

I used this avatar last year

Anonymous

7:03 PM

@ConorO'Brien Real programmers use whatever they have to in order to get the job done :)

5

Conor O'Brien

@Mego amen

Anonymous

In 3.5 hours, I will be talking with my future manager :)

Conor O'Brien

:o google

mbomb007

@Mego See you then. :)

>:D

Conor O'Brien

you two know each other/work for google?

mbomb007

7:09 PM

Nope.

Conor O'Brien

oh

flawr

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Haha, I thought it had a double paw mutation.

Conor O'Brien

just mbomb things then ;)

mbomb007

@ConorO'Brien I actually did get offered an internship at Google, but I turned it down. I had already accepted an internship/position.

Anonymous

RIP mbomb

Conor O'Brien

7:10 PM

oh nice! was it better than levitation?

Anonymous

Turning down an offer from Google tends to be fatal

Anonymous

Just ask Nathan

mbomb007

@Mego Going back on my word with a company also tends to be fatal.

Besides, I didn't want to relocate. And Google needs me much less than my current company does.

#JobSecurity

mınxomaτ

Did you golf the code base and now you're the only one who can read it?

mbomb007

@mınxomaτ I struggle with daily urges to "improve", "purify", or otherwise "upgrade" any and all existing code.

Especially code that still uses VB6.

Or old HTML

But following those urges would lead to insanity, and probably trouble.

TimmyD

7:15 PM

Anyone in here that codes for a living, do you folks have a comments-per-lines requirement or anything?

Anonymous

"purifying" VB6 code would involve rm -rf

mbomb007

@TimmyD Nope.

Anonymous

@TimmyD Eww gross

wizzwizz4

@Mego Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

mbomb007

@Mego Nullable data types didn't exist back then. So some developer thought it'd be great to create his own.

Anonymous

7:16 PM

Google has documentation requirements, but that's more "make sure you document everything that needs documenting", and not "your code must be 25% comments"

Anonymous

@mbomb007 I stand by my original statement, more fervently now

TimmyD

Yeah, that makes sense. In my (albeit very limited) experience, commenting and documentation seems to be the thing skipped most often.

mbomb007

@Mego I did go through the entire project and change every occurrence of If x = True Then to If x Then

wizzwizz4

@mbomb007 = for comparison? What sort of language is this?

Anonymous

@mbomb007 Argh. At my last job, everybody did If x = True. It drove me nuts.

mbomb007

7:18 PM

As well as replacing that same dev's own implementation of the ternary If with the real one, because there was no ternary back then.

@wizzwizz4 VB.NET

There was also no usage of short-circuiting boolean logic. That didn't exist then, either.

Anonymous

The worst part was, several times, code I wrote with If x Then would get edited by other devs to If x = True Then

mbomb007

So I added that in.

Anonymous

In hindsight, that should've been a huge red flag to GTFO of that company

mbomb007

I'm also pretty sure that Option Strict and Option Explicit are both Off

Anonymous

Thankfully someone was able to hammer into their heads that Option Strict On was a very good thing

mbomb007

7:20 PM

@Mego It's just one project that I'm talking about now. Fortunately, we're only doing maintenance on it when necessary. Which is not now.

Anonymous

Option Explicit On was going too far, though, apparently

mbomb007

@Mego Wow.

Anonymous

@mbomb007 Yeah this was 80% of the company's codebase

mbomb007

@Mego Ouch

New Main Posts

0

Q: Play a game of Yahtzee

In the game Yahtzee, players take turns rolling 5 6-sided dice up to three times per turn, possibly saving dice between rolls, and then selecting a category they wish to use for their roll. This continues until there are no more categories (which happens after 13 turns). Then, players' scores are...

Anonymous

7:22 PM

@mbomb007 Honestly the only way to fix the mess that they made would be Pour Gasoline, Strike Match, Exit Premises

TimmyD

Good grief. I'm a hack when it comes to writing (spaghetti) VB code and I still Option Explicit

TuxCopter

back

mbomb007

@Mego Real programmers write BF with sticks on the walls of caves. And engrave APL as hieroglyphics on the inside of pyramids.

wizzwizz4

@mbomb007 ... That would explain a lot.

Anonymous

@mbomb007 And scribble Malbolge in the margins of books

TuxCopter

7:29 PM

Real programmers use butterflies to write machine code on floppy disks

flawr

Anyone wanna see the pope getting photobombed?

TuxCopter

plz quantum truth

flawr

ok =)

Anonymous

@flawr Is he getting photobombed by a plane crash? Otherwise I have no idea why you'd have an interest in the photo :P

mbomb007

@TuxCopter Real programmers use straws and puffs of air to write code on the wings of butterflies. It's called the Butterfly Effect.

flawr

7:30 PM

@Mego A DOG!

TuxCopter

dog-crash

flawr

Cause if you read dog backwards it is GOD.

Anonymous

@mbomb007 And the process of doing so is called the Butterfly Affect

flawr

-> Illuminati confirmed.

TuxCopter

dog-god-crash

Anonymous

7:31 PM

@flawr Well duh. Didn't you watch that documentary with Tom Hanks?

wizzwizz4

@TuxCopter Real programmers shine torches at the right area of the sky to push comets in just the right direction to cause the planet to develop life in just the right way to cause butterflies to lay eggs in exactly the right places to cause caterpillars to develop into butterflies that flap their wings in precisely the right places to cause storms to cause lightning to hit exactly the right places to write bits on a floppy disk.

TuxCopter

@wizzwizz4 ok

CMC: Write a Malbolge script to automate ^^

Poke

Real programmers find someone else who already wrote the code they want.

7

/thread

flawr

^ on SO

Shebang

7:46 PM

Is anyone here planning on doing the Real Chebyshev Rotation challenge?

flawr

Can you link it?

Shebang

12

Q: Real Chebyshev Rotation

This is a challenge inspired by Chebyshev Rotation. I suggest looking at answers there to get inspiration for this challenge. Given a point on the plane there is a unique square (a rectangle with equal sides) that is centered on the origin and intersects that point (interactive demo): Given a...

code-golf geometry

TuxCopter

Look hard

wizzwizz4

@TuxCopter It's just been completed by @Shebang.

@Shebang That's pretty well hidden self-promotion! Well done.

Shebang

If anything I shouldn't have promoted it since now someone will probably beat me :P

TuxCopter

7:52 PM

wot

dsp.se is a thing

wizzwizz4

Signal Processing is definitely a thing.

Anonymous

@mbomb007 The scoring method you requested has been added

Geobits

8:12 PM

Well, I guess it could be worse. "Real programmer" jokes could be the whole starboard...

Shebang

Are you an impostor?

Geobits

Oh, I thought that was clear by now. Total imposter.

TimmyD

Real programmers hack their way onto the starboard.

wizzwizz4

@TimmyD Real programmers create their own starboard.

Erik the Golfer

@wizzwizz4 Yeah Hot Network Questions list, right?

TimmyD

8:14 PM

And then hack their way onto that.

TuxCopter

Real programmers hack into SE's database and star all messages

betseg

do real programmers use WMs or DEs?

Erik the Golfer

@TuxCopter Oh noes, that's not true at all...

@betseg WMs forever!!

TuxCopter

@betseg They use TTYs

Erik the Golfer

@TuxCopter WM is Working Machine.

wizzwizz4

8:16 PM

Protip: You can win every exchange just by being one level more precise than whoever talked last. Eventually, you'll defeat all conversational opponents and stand alone.

Geobits

@TuxCopter No... real programmers don't need to see the input or output while working. They do it right the first time.

wizzwizz4

s/actually/real programmers/

betseg

i've been using i3 for about a year and a half, but gnome 3.22 is so fuckin awesome, what do i do now?

TuxCopter

Yeah sorry Real programmers use a serial port and a multimeter

Yodle

Real programmers don't exist. We're all androids.

Erik the Golfer

8:17 PM

@Yodle That one is going to attract a lot of stars...

TuxCopter

Real programmers make android think they are Real programmers

Geobits

Really real programmers make real programmers think they're androids.

Poke

I thought I ended this debate :[

wizzwizz4

Real programmers don't go on about what real programmers do. They are too busy writing good code in a world of bad code.

TuxCopter

Real programmers fill the starboard with Real programmers messages

Yodle

8:18 PM

I noticed today that we got above 20K stars, now we're really piling them on.

Shebang

Real programmers write real programmers jokes in hopes to get on the starboard

Maltysen

betseg

real programmers dont use keyboards or monitors. they use neural oscillation to write 1s and 0s, while sleeping

Yodle

Off topic: is there a way to sort the starboard by highest starred?

wizzwizz4

@Maltysen Somebody did that to me once. But I already knew, so -.(o.o).-

@Yodle Yes. You do it like this:

Geobits

8:18 PM

@Yodle Nope. The "starred by you" is sorted that way, but nothing else is.

Poke

Real progSegmentation fault

wizzwizz4

Star this message! :-)

Erik the Golfer

real programmers don't use memory they use neural oscillation to write 1s and 0s using elemental particles while being in a really deep sleep.

Maltysen

@Yodle ask starman for his data explorer

hah how ironic starman

wizzwizz4

Real programmers are program themselves.

Erik the Golfer

8:19 PM

@wizzwizz4 How?

TuxCopter

Real programmers create a Real programmersception by programming a Real programmer creating Real programmers

wizzwizz4

@EriktheGolfer Real programmers sort the starboard, highest-starred at the top and lowest-starred at the bottom.

Done.

Poke

@Yodle ppcg.starmaninnovations.com/tnbde

TimmyD

@Geobits See? Look what you did. This is on you head.

Erik the Golfer

@wizzwizz4 Real programmers use PRNGs to code... and they always do it right.

DJMcMayhem

8:20 PM

Oh my gosh, how long will this conversation continue?

Geobits

@TimmyD I'm fixing it as fast as I can! :P

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem Probably until the end of time. But that's only ~2036, so not very long.

Erik the Golfer

@Geobits It was not only you.

Anonymous

Top 10 starred messages

El'endia Starman

@Yodle ppcg.starmaninnovations.com/tnbde/#MHmNFBaRkd

It was already in the useful queries list.

Yodle

8:21 PM

@DJMcMayhem Time to create a new SE chat? "Real programmers..."

And thanks :)

Erik the Golfer

@El'endiaStarman Wow that has no relation to real programmers and starboards...

TuxCopter

Real programmers don't create chat rooms. Chat rooms create Real programmers which create chat rooms.

El'endia Starman

@Yodle That sounds like a fantastic idea. Take that stuff elsewhere!

Erik the Golfer

@El'endiaStarman OK. Here it is.

wizzwizz4

@TuxCopter Real programmers create real programmers to create real programmers who create real programmers who create real programmers to create real programmers who create real programmers who create real programmers to make them coffee.

Which programmer gets the coffee?

betseg

8:24 PM

TimmyD

s/programmers to make/interns to get/

Maltysen

@Geobits plz trash, youre a room owner now right??

TuxCopter

@wizzwizz4 ... Me!

Yodle

I like how the highest thing anywhere is usually the opposite of what it wants. "Stop abusing stars" for highest starred message, "test post please ignore" for highest upvoted reddit post (for awhile, not anymore I think), etc.

4

Poke

@wizzwizz4 The noob

Geobits

8:24 PM

@Maltysen I canceled stars on many of them, but I'm not sure they need to be trashed.

Maltysen

@Geobits oh ok

Erik the Golfer

@Geobits We have more than 20K starred messages, how is that applicable to the rest of them?

El'endia Starman

Okay, if this "real programmers" stuff continues, I'll move them to Trash when I get home.

4

Geobits

@EriktheGolfer I don't know what you're asking?

TimmyD

@Yodle So, you're saying that irony is not lost on the population at large?

TuxCopter

8:26 PM

:/ You nuked the Real ~~programmers~~ stars

flawr

@El'endiaStarman Real Trash is only produced by programmers.

Geobits

Yes, just like any other time every other message gets starred for a page or two of scroll, a lot of them got goned.

Yodle

@TimmyD Either that, or people just like doing exactly the opposite of what they're told.

wizzwizz4

@TuxCopter Real stars cancel themselves. Therefore, these were not real stars.

flawr

@wizzwizz4 Therefore, stars do not exist. QED

TuxCopter

8:27 PM

lolwut

Erik the Golfer

@El'endiaStarman I have created a room for Real Programmers, no need to spam here anymore, right?

Geobits

@wizzwizz4 That's technically true, on a very long timescale.

wizzwizz4

@flawr But because you are made from atoms that were fused in stars, by extension, you do not exist. QED.

Erik the Golfer

@Geobits Umm... there weren't any real stars until now. On SE Chat's history, that is.

Geobits

Oh, I was talking about real stars.

wizzwizz4

8:30 PM

Image: mybbc.files.bbci.co.uk/s/notification-ui/2.5.0/svg/…

Erik the Golfer

@wizzwizz4 Ah, don't bring this topic back, please...

wizzwizz4

@EriktheGolfer ? I don't know what you mean.

Nor why this was flagged as spam.

> We’ve signed you out…
>
> Just to make a few upgrades. Please sign back in to get the best out of your BBC.

When I wasn't signed in in the first place.

Erik the Golfer

@wizzwizz4 I don't see a reason to flag it as spam, but there was a topic where TNB is blue, and it was very much overwriting other topics...

flawr

@wizzwizz4 That hurts my nonexistent feelings.

wizzwizz4

@EriktheGolfer Nothing was posted for 3 minutes...

@flawr Sorry, but it's true.

Because you are made of stars which, by your own logic, don't exist, you don't either.

MetaEd

8:34 PM

@wizzwizz4 I will stay out of it except to remark that this room's room guidelines call for "Avoid posting messages that add nothing to the conversation (^, ಠ_ಠ, rofl, etc.)" and "Don't post huge oneboxes, unnecessary GIFs, or messages with superfluous formatting / Unicode."

TuxCopter

github.com/vsl-lang/VSL

Can someone try to clone and build the thing (develop branch)?

(You need Flex and Bison) The makefile is visibly borked

wizzwizz4

@MetaEd Thanks for clarifying. I'll un-onebox it.

Geobits

@wizzwizz4 I'm not sure that follows. Even if no real stars exist now, doesn't mean some couldn't have existed before, which would be the source of his star-stuff.

wizzwizz4

@Geobits ...

flawr

@Geobits I'm so glad I exist again =)

MetaEd

8:36 PM

@wizzwizz4 Thank you.

wizzwizz4

@flawr I apologise. Perhaps you do exist after all.

Conor O'Brien

@El'endiaStarman I don't see why. It's a bunch of people having fun. If you're against that, well.. huh.

Geobits

@flawr I'm always glad to help someone exist.

3

TimmyD

@Geobits Because otherwise, you couldn't downvote them later.

feersum

Why do people always talk about "fun" whenever they do the most tedious things?

wizzwizz4

8:38 PM

@feersum Because without tedium, there cannot be its opposite.

Conor O'Brien

because fun is a subjective experience different to various people.

TimmyD

@wizzwizz4 Muidet?

Geobits

@TimmyD That is a large factor in my decision, yes.

feersum

So that means we have to have spammy chat to have interesting chat?

wizzwizz4

@feersum Yes. But that doesn't mean we can't trash the spammy chat.

Maltysen

8:39 PM

@feersum not anymore now that we have more chat mods :D

feersum

Oh that's good news, if the spammy chat can exist in a different room.

Geobits

@wizzwizz4 No. No it doesn't.

wizzwizz4

@Geobits We have to have spam but it doesn't have to exist here?

mınxomaτ

Nested negations are confusing.

wizzwizz4

Oh, oh, I've got it!

Conor O'Brien

8:39 PM

ooooooops I am a bad person

that is quite spammy

sorry y'all

I didn't read far enough downwards or upwards

Geobits

@wizzwizz4 There's no reason we have to have spam at all. Some amount is usually tolerated, but to say it's a need is not convincing at all.

wizzwizz4

We have to have boredom, or else our chat wouldn't be interesting, but boredom doesn't have to be put into textual form.

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien Having "fun" at the expense of others (people who are trying to have conversations relevant to the site) isn't a good thing

2

wizzwizz4

There, I've removed any reliance on spam's existence from my argument!

Conor O'Brien

@Mego yeah sorry I'm an idiot please read upwards >_<

wizzwizz4

8:42 PM

~~feature-request Mods get to star posts to infinity and beyond.~~ -1. That's a bad idea, actually.

flawr

@El'endiaStarman mystudentvoices.com/…

@wizzwizz4 denied

Geobits

@wizzwizz4 Very. Some mods are more/less mature than others ;)

wizzwizz4

@Geobits Some mods are so immature as to suggest such a thing! :-o

Geobits

Good thing I'm not a mod then.

TuxCopter

Plankalkül

Plankalkül (German pronunciation: [ˈplaːnkalkyːl], "Plan Calculus") is a programming language designed for engineering purposes by Konrad Zuse between 1942 and 1945. It was the first high-level (non-von Neumann) programming language to be designed for a computer. Also, notes survive with scribblings about such a plan calculation dating back to 1941. Plankalkül was not published at that time owing to a combination of factors such as conditions in wartime and postwar Germany and his efforts to commercialise the Z3 computer and its successors. In 1944 Zuse met with the German logician and philosopher...

wow

wizzwizz4

8:45 PM

Let's all start programming in it! :-)

flawr

lets make it OOP

TuxCopter

And functional

flawr

Isn't that almost a little bit contradictory?

TuxCopter

Make it tacit. Fixed.

flawr

Tacit?

TuxCopter

8:50 PM

Some weird programming paradigm that make Jelly's syntax so weird, for example

Tacit programming

Tacit programming, also called point-free style, is a programming paradigm in which function definitions do not identify the arguments (or "points") on which they operate. Instead the definitions merely compose other functions, among which are combinators that manipulate the arguments. Tacit programming is of theoretical interest, because the strict use of composition results in programs that are well adapted for equational reasoning. It is also the natural style of certain programming languages, including APL and its derivatives, and concatenative languages such as Forth. Despite this base, the...

El'endia Starman

@ConorO'Brien I was gonna respond but then I saw that you saw the problem. :P

Conor O'Brien

@El'endiaStarman thanks for that. I felt really bad :/

flawr

@TuxCopter Oh, I didnt know tacit = pointless

TuxCopter

Me too I didn't know lol

mınxomaτ

I'm so fed up with Lenovo. First, they think that 100M Ethernet is appropriate in 2016. Second, they use proprietary encryption instead of some standard for HDD security. Third, their latest BIOS bricked my laptop, completely bricking my HDD in the process. I know the password, but that doesn't help. It's a glorified paperweight now >.>

TuxCopter

8:55 PM

My old Lenovo is BIOS-locked ._.

flawr

@mınxomaτ And let me guess, you don't even like laptops as paperweights, right?

mınxomaτ

@flawr I mean the HDD is a paperweight. You can't decrypt the HDD even if you now the password. Putting it into an external HDD enclosure is futile, it'll show up as dead (can't mount, format or anything). There is no recovery path here.

TuxCopter

lolwut

Geobits

You can always pull the platters out and microwave them for a show if you don't want a paperweight.

mınxomaτ

The password hash is seeded with a fingerprint of the BIOS. So you can only use the HDD together with the BIOS chip that was used to encrypt it. Since that's bricked, there is no way. I can change to BIOS IC and HDD and re-use the laptop, but I'll never get my data back.

TuxCopter

9:00 PM

rightclick.io

Wow

flawr

@mınxomaτ Can you disable this encryption (when the laptop is not bricked yet)?

Anonymous

@mınxomaτ Toshiba is similarly scummy. A few years back, they released a BIOS update that set a password on the BIOS, even if you told it not to. In addition, the password checking code was bugged, so any password you tried to enter was incorrect. They had the audacity to charge people $50 to send in their laptops and get them back in two weeks with the fix (which was simply removing the battery and shorting the CMOS with a flathead screwdriver).

flawr

Just asking because I'm considering buying a new laptop.

El'endia Starman

@mınxomaτ Geez, that's terrible. Do you at least have a backup?

mınxomaτ

@flawr That's another thing. Yes, but not officially. That means if something goes wrong, you'll lose your data.

Anonymous

9:04 PM

I prefer to keep my data tight :)

mınxomaτ

@El'endiaStarman Yes. But this was a new SSD. I'd like it back. Even if I can only format it.

flawr

@mınxomaτ Ok, lenovo is off my list.

mınxomaτ

The only solution is to not enable HDD encryption in the first place. The same problem affects HP laptops that have this "feature"

Anonymous

I prefer ASUS for laptops. Their customer service is pretty good, and the only issue I've had is the battery barely holding a charge after 5 years.

Dennis

Lenovo has been off my list for a long time. My mother has one, and she can't even use Skype.

Anonymous

9:05 PM

Bought a new battery for $50 and it's good as new (or, at least, as good as a 5-year-old laptop can be).

PhiNotPi

I'm using a Dell laptop right now... seems okay.

Geobits

@Mego I still have an ASUS netbook. That thing is a brick, and not in the bad way :)

TuxCopter

My laptop is an ASUS, it's ok

El'endia Starman

@flawr That's sad. I'm gonna try that shepherd problem on my fiancee's younger sister since I'm quite sure she has that problem too.

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi Just wait until something goes wrong and you have to call customer support. Then you'll see why people hate Dell.

Dennis

9:06 PM

Currently owning a Toshiba. Very happy with it.

Anonymous

@Dennis Don't update the BIOS :)

flawr

So toshiba and asus are the way to go it seems=)

mbomb007

@Yodle TNB is above 52K stars. Idk where you're getting your info from. chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/240/the-nineteenth-byte

Conor O'Brien

Situation: My computer seems good.
Situation in a year: MY COMPUTER IS SLOW AND TINY

Dennis

@Mego My philosophy since the 90's: Never change a running system.

TuxCopter

9:07 PM

I don't even know how to update the BIOS lol

mınxomaτ

@Mego Dell has a customer service HQ a few blocks down the road. If I ever have a problem, they'll get a visit in person :D

flawr

So did you ever expect to update the firmware of a lightbulb? No? Neither did I, but that is what I just did.

Anonymous

@mınxomaτ And when you get inside, you'll see a bunch of machines that forward calls to Asian countries, and no people in sight.

Anonymous

@flawr Hue lights?

mbomb007

@ConorO'Brien Universal solution: run disk defrag.

Anonymous

9:09 PM

@Dennis The problem was when it stopped running due to buggy code in the old BIOS :)

Luis Mendo

Voting is subjective, but I find it really hard to see this as a reason for downvoting

I downvoted because I don't like challenges where a complicated setup comes down to a straightforward formula to golf. — xnor yesterday

flawr

@Mego A relative bought some led color changing lights that you can access with an app.

TuxCopter

@mbomb007 s/^/Windows

Anonymous

@mbomb007 Modern solution: let your computer run disk defrag for you. It's smarter than you, and will regularly run defrag on its own.

Dennis

@mbomb007 Neither Linux nor SSDs need defrag.

mbomb007

9:10 PM

@TuxCopter We already decided that real programmers use Windows.

Anonymous

@flawr Sounds like Hue lights (or one of the copycats)

Conor O'Brien

I had to google defragging. is that bad

Anonymous

@Dennis ext4 is so wonderful :)

TuxCopter

@Dennis Anything that is not FAT/NTFS derived don't need defrag

Geobits

I tried defragging my disk once. Turns out if you use a decent file system you don't really need to.

Anonymous

9:10 PM

@ConorO'Brien It just means you're young and never dealt with FAT filesystems

Geobits

Are you FAT shaming?

Conor O'Brien

@Mego oh, fantastic.

(FATastic?)

mbomb007

@Geobits Cure for obesity: try defragging.

Anonymous

@Geobits Yeah, NTFS doesn't really need defragging often, and newer versions of Windows (7+) defrag automatically on a schedule.

betseg

does ntfs put files in the beginning of the fs, like fat?

flawr

9:12 PM

@Geobits Are you NTFS shaming?

betseg

fsck!

Dennis

@LuisMendo Personally, I like challenges that don't spoon-feed you the formula. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not that I'd use the formula anyway.

Geobits

Yeah, I sure miss the good ol' fat days. Defragging was a soothing ritual that always made you feel better about your computer, even if it didn't really accomplish much in the long run.

mbomb007

@betseg Watch your language! :P

Anonymous

@Geobits Yes. I will shame FAT until the end of my days. When FAT32 was created for 95b, ext2 had already existed for 3 years.

TuxCopter

9:13 PM

@betseg It's the cheapest way to store files position/size/attributes/name

'Night

zyabin101

@wizzwizz4 I'm not doing botty stuff. o_o

PhiNotPi

@Mego online support was much better the one time I did have to contact them

betseg

same

night

Luis Mendo

@Dennis Well the complaint was not that the formula is given in the challenge or not; but rather that there is a simple formula for solving it

Dennis

@Mego And it still is the default on many flash drives, causing data loss everywhere.

Geobits

9:14 PM

Wow, can we just let it go for now?

Dennis

@Geobits Yes, we can.

Anonymous

@Dennis Thanks friendly neighborhood mod :)

flawr

@Dennis That slogan is about 8 years old now.

Adnan

huh, what happened

mbomb007

@flawr Bob the Builder

DJMcMayhem

9:23 PM

@Mego Everytime I look at your avatar, I think it's tux...

Silly penguins are confusing me

Luis Mendo

@DJMcMayhem At least they don't change their name every few weeks :-P

DJMcMayhem

Hey, I haven't changed my name in a while!

Dennis

It's not always easy, but please remember to Be Nice. Although temporary suspensions for inappropriate behavior exist for a reason, everybody is welcome here, as long as they adhere to our guidelines. Once the suspension is over, unless the improper behavior continues, try to pretend that it never happened.

15

Luis Mendo

^^ does this refer to something in particular?

DJMcMayhem

Why two carets? Are you asking me?

Luis Mendo

9:32 PM

No, I was asking about Dennis comment

AdolfoV

@Dennis hey man, if you switch the Y for a G on codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/95745/… it looks nicer

DJMcMayhem

But you did two carets

Luis Mendo

:32977619 That was meant to refer to Dennis comment. Oh wait, does two carets mean two messages above? LOL If that's the case I never knew that

Dennis

@LuisMendo A few messages that made their way into the mod-only trash can.

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill I've made some progress on the whole "smart-stopping" algorithm, mainly dealing with modeling the process. If you run two tournaments with sample size X, the expected difference in results Y (measured by summing the squares of differences in ranks), can be modeled by y = a * (b^x + c^x + d^x ...) for some number of parameters (depends on the number of contestants).

Where b,c,d... <= 1

Dennis

9:34 PM

@AdolfoV That does look a lot better. :) Sadly, it's not what the challenge asked for.

DJMcMayhem

@LuisMendo yup. That's why I was asking. And it extends to n carets also

Luis Mendo

@Dennis Oh I see

@DJMcMayhem It never occurred to me, but it makes a lot of sense now :-)

AdolfoV

@Dennis oh ok cool :)

PhiNotPi

In the case of simply two contestants, this reduces down to y = a * b^x. The value of 'a' represents the expected difference in results when the sample size is 0 (a random ordering).

As y decreases, the variance in results decreases. When y < 1, the tournament results are most likely correct.

Dennis

@LuisMendo To add to the confusion, ^^ is sometimes used as an emoji.

Jonathan Allan

9:40 PM

@Dennis out of curiosity do you have a <6 byte solution to the Kangaroo not using the formula?

DJMcMayhem

CMC: Write a program that prints a larger program that prints a larger program that prints a larger program...

Luis Mendo

@Dennis Heh. That's confusing indeed

Dennis

@JonathanAllan Maaaybe.

Jonathan Allan

ah

DJMcMayhem

Every step must be larger, one language per submission

Jonathan Allan

9:42 PM

I read that as yes :p

PhiNotPi

Hmmm.... I wonder if y = a * (b^x + c^x + d^x ...) actually needs to be y = a * b^x + c * d^x + e * f^x... I'm going to try to determine how "simple" I can make it. I'll keep you updated.

Martin Ender

@DJMcMayhem don't we have that as an actual challenge?

Dennis

We do.

DJMcMayhem

Idk

Link?

Dennis

I remember that we do, not how it's called. :P

DJMcMayhem

9:45 PM

Also, do we have an ourobouros challenge?

Maltysen

@Dennis IIRC the winning answer was 9 in HQ9+

prolly the only interesting HQ9+ answer ever

Dennis

I think QQ was the winning answer (H9Q+).

Or that.

Hey, if I find it, I have a 0 bytes solution.

Martin Ender

@DJMcMayhem yes. The title is something about a language snake

Conor O'Brien

CMC: write a program that outputs a program that outputs a program... where each program is larger than the previous by a constant factor N.

trichoplax

@ConorO'Brien N bytes longer or N times as long?

Conor O'Brien

9:47 PM

longer

trichoplax

Then I don't have a zero byte solution :(

Dennis

Do you think proper quine rules apply to this challenge? I doesn't seem to ask for it and most submissions aren't really quine-like.

(found it btw)

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien 5 bytes: '1*Q+ (assuming quine builtins are allowed)

Luis Mendo

211 votes??

trichoplax

@Dennis There doesn't seem any requirement for the output to resemble the source code in any way, other than sharing the property of having larger output indefinitely. Are you thinking of editing in some way?

Dennis

9:52 PM

No, I'm thinking about posting a 0-byte answer.

DJMcMayhem

In....?

Dennis

Those are (rightfully) frowned upon for quine challenges, but that challenge seems rather un-quine-like, despite the tag.

Maltysen

@Dennis does retina work?

trichoplax

I don't see why it has that tag

Dennis

Neither do I.

0

A: Program that creates larger versions of itself (quine-variant)

GS2, 0 bytes This prints a single newline. Try it online! A single newline prints two newlines. Try it online! Two newlines print three newlines. Try it online! Three newlines print four newlines. Try it online! Et cetera.