The Nineteenth Byte

Martin Büttner

2:00 PM

^ I like this

trichoplax

Me too

It still works with the expanding world too, and prevents massive ASCII Art that can't fit on the screen

GamrCorps

@El'endiaStarman just noticed that one too

El'endia Starman

@GamrCorps Eh?

GamrCorps

WTF, it was a six while I was screen capturing it....

El'endia Starman

lol

Geobits

2:07 PM

Rep going missing? This close to Halloween? Must be something sinister.

VoteToClose

Spooky downvote.

@Geobits ಠ_ಠ

Geobits

Unupvote more likely. Downvotes are -2.

It's really hard to make -5 with -2s.

2

GamrCorps

BTW, should I change this back?

Martin Büttner

Could also be a deleted user.

GamrCorps

Martin Büttner

2:08 PM

@trichoplax Also makes it easier to provide a larger number (easy to check) test cases.

@GamrCorps no

trichoplax

Good point

GamrCorps

@MartinBüttner ok. He wins this time....

Martin Büttner

He has a point and even if he didn't it wouldn't be worth starting a rollback war over.

Geobits

Not a point I agree with, but I definitely agree it's not worth rolling back :)

GamrCorps

Is there really a major difference between <h1>s and <h2>s?

Martin Büttner

2:11 PM

@GamrCorps His point is that any valid HTML document shouldn't contain more than one h1 (and the question title is already h1 itself)

trichoplax

There is if you want to apply custom CSS

Geobits

11 hours ago, by Geobits

If you're asking about visual difference.

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman can you make an animated gif for us all to enjoy?

GamrCorps

@MartinBüttner Oh, I see. That makes sense. Oh well, everyone has their own opinions

El'endia Starman

@Lembik I don't feel like going to the work of doing that.

It's very dull anyway.

Lembik

2:13 PM

@El'endiaStarman ok

how can you say that!

Martin Büttner

Alright, I think the cat-alogue is ready to go... if no one spots any more issues I'll probably post it within the next hour or so.

Lembik

it's a moving pixel :)

El'endia Starman

Really. It's a purple pixel on a black background in a tiny little window.

Lembik

white background I hope

and a window that is not too tiny I hope too

Geobits

@MartinBüttner Out of curiosity, do you know where it's stated that it isn't valid HTML to have more than one? Most things I've seen recommend using an h1 for each post within a page (such as on a blog, etc).

trichoplax

2:14 PM

@GamrCorps I see it the same way as the description text in an image. Most people don't use screen readers, so most won't notice whether you include a description or not, but I want it to work for the minority too. With H1 in multiple places, most people won't notice any problem, but I'd rather it work for everyone not just the majority.

Martin Büttner

@Rainbolt I have a feeling you didn't see any of these messages, because no one pinged you. This one and the next few ones were about your sandbox proposal.

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Black background is default in Blitz. :P (Also, 180x180 pixels.)

Lembik

ah.. the challenge specifies white

Martin Büttner

@Geobits I said it's his point, I didn't say (that I know whether) it's a valid point. :P

New Meta Posts

0

Q: Specific Languages

In the Code Golf Overflow, can your answers be any written in language unless otherwise specified by the asker? Or do they have to be written in any specific language?

El'endia Starman

2:15 PM

@Lembik Whoops, didn't see that.

GamrCorps

@trichoplax I agree. As long as all the answers use the same one its fine with me.

Geobits

@MartinBüttner Gotcha. Wasn't sure ;)

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Fixed. :) And now it's even harder to see the pixel. :P

@NewMetaPosts It's NOT "Overflow"!

Lembik

it's not harder for me :)

@El'endiaStarman if someone told you exactly how to make the animated gif would that help?

El'endia Starman

I could.

Do I really have to?

Lembik

2:17 PM

yes you do.. in the sense that of course you don't :)

but it is really nice when people do

especially if they can't run your code

Martin Büttner

@Geobits I suppose this sort of confirms what you said. Have you asked Peter about this?

aditsu

I have a new pc :)

Lembik

hooray!

does it have gpu?

aditsu

you mean separate video card? nope

Lembik

then how will you crack all the passwords??

aditsu

2:19 PM

my cats are in charge of that

Geobits

@MartinBüttner No. I just heard about the #/## debate here yesterday, and haven't seen him since. I mean, it's not a big deal, I'm just curious because I'd never heard that it would be "invalid". Just that it used to be an SEO thing and isn't so much any more.

Lembik

@aditsu of course!

do you have many cores?

feersum

The h1's seem appropriately sized for answer titles here.

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor Discuss! :)

feersum

Not like Github where an <h1> fills half the screen.

aditsu

2:20 PM

just 4

Lembik

that's only 75% wasted!

:)

I have 7 which get to hang around smoking weed

I think I once used all 8 for a minute or two

Martin Büttner

for a second there I thought we were still talking about cats...

aditsu

oh don't worry, I use gentoo, they'll be busy quite often

Lembik

:)

@aditsu madness! :)

I used to gentoo.. but I have been off it for years

I think there are helplines

@aditsu I have to ask.. why?

aditsu

because it's the best (at least for me)

Lembik

2:22 PM

can you tell me 2 things that are good?

aditsu

I can get pretty much everything to work the way I want

Lembik

can you give 2 examples where it would be harder in another distro?

aditsu

well.. one example: it was pretty hard to get kde working in ubuntu, and it only had an ancient version

TimmyD

@Lembik Well, everything's harder in Debian ...

Lembik

@aditsu oh... kubuntu.org no good?

aditsu

2:24 PM

haven't tried kubuntu in a long time, last time I tried it, audacity was totally b0rked and unusable

Lembik

ah so really this is about bugs

rather than the fact that you have to recompile everything that everyone else has already compiled 10^5 times :)

aditsu

all sorts of things... in many distros managing dependencies is a huge pain

Lembik

it's worse in gentoo!!

aditsu

actually it's really easy in gentoo

Lembik

in gentoo you are allowed to change flags arbitrarily.. which means you can change a flag, install something the depends on it and then try to install something else that needed a different flag

aditsu

2:26 PM

recompiling stuff is a small price to pay to get exactly the features I want

Lembik

and be completely screwed

unless you emerge world all the time which is just insane :)

aditsu

well, I'd rather not get too deep into details, it works well for me

Geobits

I'm allowed to delete files arbitrarily in most systems. I wouldn't blame the OS if I screwed something up doing it :P

Lembik

but it's interesting that your main reason was bugs in other distros

@Geobits if you delete things in /etc just for fun I do blame you :)

Geobits

Well, yea, that's what I mean. Don't blame the system for it, blame the user.

aditsu

2:28 PM

well, there are bugs, old packages, difficulty of getting things working or updated, lots of things

Geobits

Meaning, you shouldn't be messing around with changing flags if you don't know what you're doing and why.

aditsu

I also don't like the way many distros have fixed versions and you have to wait for the next whole-system update that changes everything

Lembik

@aditsu don't almost all distros have 3rd party repos for exactly that issue?

trichoplax

@GamrCorps Following the subsequent discussion, I am now confused and have no opinion either way...

Lembik

@Geobits right.. I think almost no one should use gentoo :)

aditsu

2:29 PM

@Lembik I don't really know :p

Lembik

@Geobits most people I speak to tell you they make their system sleeker and faster by changing flags

aditsu

I know gentoo gives me power and flexibility

Lembik

@aditsu I know that is what people say.. I am just interested in a specific example

Geobits

With great power comes great responsibility and all that stuff.

Lembik

I did use gentoo

and now I use ubuntu

if I want something newer I find a PPA

El'endia Starman

2:31 PM

@Geobits And great resistance!

Lembik

if that doesn't exist I compile the tar ball

Geobits

-_-

Lembik

but that is rare and easy

PhiNotPi

Twitch Installs Arch Linux: twitchinstalls.com

Lembik

if I want to configure something in a non-standard way I have to play with .config files

which is the same everywhere

El'endia Starman

2:32 PM

@PhiNotPi Wut. Is that what I think it is?

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman I shouldn't have been shocked by that response, but I was.

Lembik

my main complaint is that I can kill my system really easily by running out of memory in python

that is annoying

I haven't found a good solution for that

Geobits

Not use so much memory?

Lembik

the OOM killer doesn't seem to do what I need

@Geobits bugs! Also python doesn't make it obvious to guess how many memory you are using

PhiNotPi

@El'endiaStarman It is exactly what you think it is.

Lembik

2:34 PM

and it really kills the system dead.. you have to turn it off at the power

El'endia Starman

I saw. :D

feersum

@Lembik I get problems with this too, on Windows

El'endia Starman

Same. Though it's pretty rare.

Lembik

@feersum I feel linux used to be able to deal with it better!

how does this work if you are running a multi-user system for example?

you can't have one user killing the whole system

feersum

I need to make a code golf launcher that creates a job object for memory restriction when I'm running dubious golf solutions.

Geobits

2:35 PM

@Lembik It wouldn't be the first time...

aditsu

anyway, I need to get the net working on this thing... :p

Lembik

@feersum that's a good idea

@Geobits :(

El'endia Starman

@aditsu Yeah, don't want to fall through. That would be unpleasant.

Geobits

I remember killing my old Packard Bell many, many times as a kid. Stupid bugs and infinite loops.

aditsu

fall through?

El'endia Starman

2:36 PM

Net.

aditsu

ah :)

El'endia Starman

:)

aditsu

hmm, Debian HCL has no idea

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

yo! im back ;)

El'endia Starman

hullo!

Sp3000

2:43 PM

Hey Chinatsu-(ch|s|t)an!

El'endia Starman

@Sp3000 Is that the "I don't know which honorific to use so here's all of them" honorific? :P

Sp3000

(ch|s|t)an|kun|sama|dono|s(h|en(pa|se))i

aditsu

@El'endiaStarman that's not all of them

Geobits

You could even go chama or tama if you really want to.

El'endia Starman

@aditsu Yeah, I know...

TimmyD

2:47 PM

I'm almost sensing a mini-challenge ... given two people as input, output the appropriate honorific of the first to the second.

El'endia Starman

And Sp3000 demonstrated that handily.

In what (relatively) little anime I've watched, I've only ever seen/heard chan, kun, and san.

Geobits

-sama is pretty popular in anime, from what I've seen.

Sp3000

Out of curiosity, is -kouhai used as an honorific?

Geobits

I usually saw that used alone, but admit I didn't see/hear it very often at all.

DanTheMan

I was working on creating a way in ><> to convert from a string input to an integer output and I managed to golf it down to this:
0i:0(?v4c*-}a*{+!
;n~ <

El'endia Starman

2:51 PM

Is there a Japanese Language and Usage SE?

Martin Büttner

El'endia Starman

Well, there you go @Sp3000. ^

DanTheMan

0i:0(?v4c*-}a*{+!
;n~   <

El'endia Starman

^ One big reason I created Minkolang. :P

DanTheMan

Can anyone think of a way to golf this further?

El'endia Starman

2:56 PM

@DanTheMan c% instead of 4c*-.

Someone commented that on a ><> answer I posted on the main site.

DanTheMan

The other day I learned i:0( instead of i:01-= for checking if the input is empty, which is a good trick to know.

El'endia Starman

yeah

Lembik

we have a lot of questions with more answers than votes!

how can that be right?

VoteToClose

3

I have weird backgrounds.

El'endia Starman

@VoteToClose ...that actually looks...sad.

Lembik

3:00 PM

e.g. codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/69/…

Alien G

@VoteToClose That makes two of us.

Zgarb

@Lembik In my experience, it tends to happen with easy challenges. New users post a short answer and don't bother to upvote the question.

Lembik

@Zgarb lazy toads :)

VoteToClose

@El'endiaStarman It's very... noir.

Lembik

maybe you should get an automatic upvote with every answer

VoteToClose

3:03 PM

@Lembik status-declined

7

Lembik

@VoteToClose what does that mean?

El'endia Starman

> Write the shortest program that prints "a" to any form of output. You can do whatever you want. Have fun!

^ Gazillions of upvotes, I'm sure.

(And a quick closure. :P)

VoteToClose

3:15 PM

@Lembik Click on the button. ;D

El'endia Starman

@VoteToClose I clicked on the star button. Was that the wrong one? :P

mınxomaτ

> Code Golf Overflow

here

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

@Sp3000 your regex has a simple flaw: Call me Chinatsu-nyan

Zgarb

@mınxomaτ Code Golf Overflow: when you write a program of length MAX_UNSIGNED_INT + 1 and the judge program recognizes it as 1 byte long.

6

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

Lol

Hey guys, anyone here into reverse engineering?

PhiNotPi

3:34 PM

Sure

mınxomaτ

By trade.

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

@PhiNotPi can you give me a tip?

PhiNotPi

what kind of tip?

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

I do program, obviously. C++, C, Assembly and Python.

Alien G

@Chinatsu-creepy-chan Reversing actual objects or .dll/etc?

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

3:35 PM

I'm having some trouble with cracking my own program

feersum

lol

Alien G

@Chinatsu-creepy-chan Isn't that a good thing...?

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

@AlienG actual objects and minds

PhiNotPi

What program are you talking about?

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

@AlienG nope and I'm not kidding

Alien G

3:37 PM

@Chinatsu-creepy-chan I'm not sure why you'd want to have a crackable program?

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

@PhiNotPi I made a simple program that creates a 16 bytes string

@AlienG that was a test program. A program made for cracking

Alien G

@Chinatsu-creepy-chan Oh, then that makes sense.

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

It's random and I must find the string. But its only generated after the input and then compared

I can't really manage to find the comparison snippet of ASM that holds the true/false.

Any tips on these jump-to-comparison cases? (when you have to crack a comparison inside a function)

Alien G

@Chinatsu-creepy-chan Just use cheat engine :P

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

Cuz its kinda hard to find the actual function

@AlienG wouldn't work tho

Alien G

3:42 PM

@Chinatsu-creepy-chan Well alright.

Chinatsu-creepy-chan

I use Ollydbg on Windows

Lembik

4:04 PM

@VoteToClose is my suggestion there? I don't see it

can any windows users test codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/62226/9206 ?

New Main Posts

4:27 PM

2

Q: Simple cat program

One of the most common standard tasks (especially when showcasing esoteric programming languages) is to implement a "cat program": read all of STDIN and print it to STDOUT. While this is named after the Unix shell utility cat it is of course much less powerful than the real thing, which is normal...

code-golf string

El'endia Starman

At first I was pleased that Minkolang's solution was only 5 bytes. Then I saw that half the answers were as short or shorter...

VoteToClose

0 bytes <-- not cool, breh.

Martin Büttner

@VoteToClose "This is not about finding the language with the shortest solution for this (there are some where the empty program does the trick) - this is about finding the shortest solution in every language."

Peter Taylor

@Geobits To be clear, I never said that having multiple h1 tags is invalid HTML: I said that it was "bad style" and that a page "should only have one <h1> tag".

I learnt HTML back in 1996 from the NCSA HTML Primer, which says "Within HTML the semantic meaning of <H1> is that it's the main heading of a document". The source for that is probably Tim Berners-Lee's style guide for HTML which says "...one heading level 1 at the top of the document, and if necessary several level 2 headings, ..."

CC @MartinBüttner

Martin Büttner

4:43 PM

Thanks.

From the quick googling I did even that recommendation seems to be outdated for HTML5 though.

New Main Posts

-3

Q: Halloween Golf: 2spooky4me

A current internet meme is to type 2spooky4me, with a second person typing 3spooky5me, following the (n)spooky(n+2)me pattern. Your mission is the implement this pattern in your chosen language. The secondary objective is to get the largest possible value for n. The output can be in any format, ...

code-golf number

Martin Büttner

@feersum Does my edit clear things up?

Peter Taylor

@MartinBüttner The page about HTML5 you linked earlier still recommends only one <h1> per section, and the StackExchange markup engine doesn't seem to generate <section> tags.

VoteToClose

@MartinBüttner Oh, I know. It's just... sigh. Languages that have this feature are cool, but as you said, not interesting. (this is what I meant by "not cool" :D)

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor Oh it was referring to actual section tags... fair enough... as I said, I only skimmed it.

(Anyway, I've recommended ## on cat now)

feersum

4:47 PM

@MartinBüttner Sure.

VoteToClose

@MartinBüttner The snippet is showing languages in order of alphabet, not conciseness.

Martin Büttner

@VoteToClose That's the plan. (The right-hand side has them in order of size though.)

TimmyD

Hmm ... the concept of STDIN for PowerShell is tricky ... It accepts pipeline input, and can read input from the user, but to a PS script, those are handled very differently, almost to the point of being considered separate streams...

VoteToClose

Oh, okay.

Martin Büttner

@TimmyD Do both?

VoteToClose

4:50 PM

Err. Rather, I'm not sure what order it's showing it in, @MartinBüttner. It's put Vitsy above osascript on the left side.

Martin Büttner

@VoteToClose ASCII character codes.

I might make it case insensitive later.

TimmyD

@MartinBüttner With the understanding that pipeline input can't be infinite, while reading input from the user could be with a while loop

Martin Büttner

how come pipeline input can't be infinite? (this may be why my Labyrinth tests with yes are failing...)

El'endia Starman

Jeez, Mauris is submitting answers like crazy.

Martin Büttner

He does that...

El'endia Starman

4:54 PM

He knows too many languages! :P

Dennis

@MartinBüttner You should really upgrade to anther OS. :P

TimmyD

Pipelining in PowerShell is a separate concept from pipelining in e.g., bash ... It's a feature of the language rather than a feature of the shell/environment ... Essentially, suppose command1 | command2 | command3 ... The command1 needs to finish executing before the results are pipelined into command2 and so on.

Martin Büttner

ugh, how I hate PowerShell's pipes

Dennis

For the record, yes | ruby labyrinth.rb cat.lb works just fine on Linux.

Martin Büttner

@Dennis well...

TimmyD

4:55 PM

It's fine if you completely forget how pipes function everywhere else

Martin Büttner

@Dennis thanks

@TimmyD the worst thing is that the pipe ensures a trailing newline.

Mauris

Anyone know a Bash command that prints an infinite stream of as or something?

Martin Büttner

yes?

Mauris

It looks like yes doesn't have a flag for not printing newlines

Martin Büttner

oh right, specifically without newlines

Mauris

4:58 PM

(Or at least, mine doesn't)

Martin Büttner

ruby -e "loop do $> << ?a end"

feersum

hmm pipes in plain cmd shell work correctly

Martin Büttner

not sure whether you need to flush though

@feersum yeah, I've heard so

but then again I find cmd largely unusable for other reasons

Mauris

Oh, (while true; do echo -n a; done) | whatever does the trick

feersum

I tried type CONIN$|python -c"while 1:print(raw_input())"

El'endia Starman

5:02 PM

It was hard to write an answer in Befunge. I repurposed just about every symbol...

~:1+!#@_, is, in order (in Befunge), char input, duplicate, 1, add, not, trampoline, end program, horizontal branch, and output char.

The same symbols in Minkolang are negate, divide, 1, add, trampoline, net, n-trampoline, horizontal mirror, and not.

VoteToClose

I made a bell pun. ಠ_ಠ @VoteToClose

10

Q: Carrots. So. Many. Carrots

The Inspiration The Task You must create a program, that, in as many languages as possible, replaces every instance of ^ with a markdown formatted link (meaning that if I was to post it in an answer, it would automatically read it as an image and place the image instead of the words) of thi...

string polyglot

No answers yet... c:

El'endia Starman

I'm seriously considering doing a Minkolang answer.

Peter Taylor

@Mauris `yes | tr -d "

"`

VoteToClose

@El'endiaStarman Vitsy ignores unknown characters now. ;)

El'endia Starman

I know I can do Minko and Befunge.

TheDoctor

5:14 PM

CARROTS

^^^^^^ nomnomnomnonm

El'endia Starman

And I just figured out how to get ><> in there too. :D

VoteToClose

:D

Geobits

@PeterTaylor Ok, that makes sense. I've heard the semantics argument before, I was just curious how "invalid" came up. Turns out it's just @Martin paraphrasing poorly ;)

Martin Büttner

I must have misremembered some talk about HTML validators.

Geobits

Yea, that happens when you get old :P

Though it wouldn't surprise me if there are some validators that choke on that. Most JS validators I've played with are somewhat... overzealous... in my opinion. I imagine HTML ones are the same.

Optimizer

5:26 PM

@MartinBüttner there is no such thing as powerful to be called a validator for HTML

VoteToClose

650 Rep!

19 hours ago, by VoteToClose

El'endia Starman

5:38 PM

Okay, Minkolang portion is complete.

Beta Decay

Fun fact: if you drilled a tunnel from one point on the Earth to its antipode and jumped into it, it would take ~42 minutes to make it all the way through

El'endia Starman

Funner fact: it would take the same amount of time between any two points on Earth if the connecting tunnel was straight and frictionless. :D

Mauris

What if the points are 1cm away from each other? O_o

El'endia Starman

Assuming a point particle...

VoteToClose

@El'endiaStarman > Most Recent Commit of Vitsy: Added Z syntax - get all input, direct it to STDOUT.

>:D

El'endia Starman

5:41 PM

lolz