The Nineteenth Byte

flawr

8:00 PM

Does anyone know, is there the one true reference implementation for BrainFuck?

Because in some interpreters , results in 0, but in others , results in some other character.

Daniel M.

, is input from STDIN

flawr

I thought . is?

Geobits

BF should have been closed as unclear:

> Partly because Urban Müller did not write a thorough language specification, the many subsequent brainfuck interpreters and compilers have come to use slightly different dialects of brainfuck.

flawr

Oh right=)

Sven The Surfer

@VTCAKAVSMoACE If you're not going to use any of the included stuffs

flawr

8:05 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE I made a huge mistake 0.o

Alex A.

@flawr The books or the TV series?

flawr

@AlexA. TV series.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@flawr Wat?

flawr

@VTCAKAVSMoACE I need to swap , and . in the SAF table

Otherwise cat would not make sense.

Alex A.

TableAsFuck

minxomat

8:07 PM

I came across this gem in a piece of student code today. That's probably the most convoluted way to print 10 strings I've ever seen: f(10,function(){print("hello");});function f(n,c){while(n-->0){c();}}

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Erm... Okay?

Alex A.

@minxomat Wtaf

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Do you just need to replace C and D?

flawr

@VTCAKAVSMoACE This also implies that The whole rows/columns of . and , need to be switched.

quartata

Tell the guy that he'll get a bonus point if he does it in Pyth

flawr

8:08 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Then our carefully crafted talbe loses a lot of eastereggs.

Alex A.

Just randomly permute the whole grid and start anew.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Just flip them, but don't change any of the characters except the last row.

Alex A.

Trash your computer and live in the woods with a loincloth.

@PhiNotPi That's what you should have done after the ElementaryOS Dual Boot Fiasco of 2015.

flawr

Why don't just blow up earth? Life is overrated anyway.

Geobits

That's a typically geocentric view. As if blowing up the Earth will kill all life everywhere ;)

flawr

8:11 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE I made the new table as a  comment in the esolangs wiki, can you quickly check whether this makes sense now?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Yeah, one sec.

Alex A.

@Geobits I think the only things that will survive nuclear winter are cockroaches and Donald Trump's hair

flawr

@AlexA. Who sais nuclear winter? Why not nuclear summer?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@flawr Heh. Nice formatting. ;) I saw the fix happen. xD

Alex A.

Nuclear winter

Nuclear winter (also known as atomic winter) is a hypothetical climatic effect, most often considered a potential threat following a countervalue, or city-targeted, nuclear war. Climate models suggest that the ignition of 100 firestorms that are comparable in intensity to that observed in Hiroshima in 1945 would produce a small nuclear winter. The burning of these firestorms would result in the injection of soot into the Earth's stratosphere, producing an anti-greenhouse effect, that lowers the Earth's surface temperature. With the models concluding that the size of this effect, from the cumulative...

VTCAKAVSMoACE

8:13 PM

The last character (first, NUL) on both rows were wrong, but I fixed that. I think it makes sense now.

Alex A.

Apparently nuclear weapons produce only one season.

Geobits

It's not the winter that kills you, it's the blast and/or radiation. If you sit around in an underground shelter for a few months, you'll probably be all right.

minxomat

@AlexA. Well, they produce Summer for a few nanoseconds.

Alex A.

@minxomat And you get a nice tan!

VTCAKAVSMoACE

I did the last row and fixed the 'user-friendliness' chart.

Geobits

8:16 PM

Nuclear winter doesn't sound so bad. Most of the population will get killed off, so the loss of viable farmland isn't as severe.

Alex A.

I think "user-friendly esolang" is an oxymoron.

Geobits

Besides, it's too damn hot here in the summer.

PhiNotPi

I feel like "esolang" is pretty much defined as "non-user-friendly"

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Our language chart is literally composed of derpy stuff made at about 2 AM in both of our time zones. XD

Geobits

Nothing about this SAF language looks user friendly in the least. It looks worse in that regard than BF at the least.

trichoplax

8:17 PM

@flawr This question appears to be off topic here. You might try worldbuilding.SE

Geobits

Pretty sure it's a dupe there :D

flawr

@trichoplax ~~Nothing~~ Jon Snow knows what is offtopic in the nineteenth byte!

trichoplax

@flawr I know - I just couldn't resist pointing out that your question is very commonly asked on worldbuilding... :)

Geobits

worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/…

trichoplax

Wow. More than I thought...

New Main Posts

8:20 PM

2

Q: Averages of Angles

Story, or why we are doing this. None. This exercise is completely pointless ... unless you are Steven Hawking. The Challenge Given a list of angles, find the average of those angles. For example the average of 91 degrees and -91 degrees is 180 degrees. You can use a program or function to do ...

flawr

@VTCAKAVSMoACE I updated the hello world in the wiki. Perhaps you'd have to update your answers in SAF too.

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi The "eso" comes from "esoteric," which in turn comes from the Greek esōterikós, translating similarly to "inner." The postfix "lang" comes from "languid." Thus "esolang" means roughly "inner weakness."

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@flawr No, actually, I confirmed my code with the interpreter before uploading it - before we changed the table.

Geobits

> For example the average of 91 degrees and -91 degrees is 180 degrees.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

trichoplax

WHY??!?

Alex A.

8:22 PM

@trichoplax Why not?

trichoplax

@Geobits It appears we agree as long as we stay away from the topic of peanut butter

Geobits

@AlexA. Because Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Alex A.

@trichoplax Chunky or smooth? CHUNKY OR SMOOTH?!

trichoplax

@AlexA. I don't believe I can express it any more eloquently than Geobits already has...

Geobits

@trichoplax Agreed. There is no converting a chunky heretic.

Alex A.

8:23 PM

D:

trichoplax

Talking of topics and peanut butter, imagine if Topics had peanut butter...

Alex A.

Actually I'm pretty sure it rains peanut butter in the tropics.

trichoplax

That's totally topical

Daniel M.

I changed the scoring a bit, but I'm definitely happier with the new scoring

Sven The Surfer

@AlexA. I don't know an easy way to tell you this, Alex, but it rains rain in the tropics...

Geobits

8:25 PM

Ok, can anyone give me a counterexample where the average of angles couldn't just be the same as the average of the numbers themselves?

Daniel M.

@SvenTheSurfer It rains water, not rain.

Alex A.

@Geobits When one of them is negative?

PhiNotPi

@AlexA. From what I just googled, eso is a Greek root for "within" and lang comes from Latin root lingua meaning "tongue/speech/language."

Geobits

If not, this looks like a clear dupe of something I'm sure.

Sven The Surfer

361 and 1 is 1, no?

Geobits

8:26 PM

@AlexA. The average of -5 and 5 is 0, no? How does that change when they're angles?

trichoplax

@SvenTheSurfer Surely not

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi (I know, it was a joke aimed at making the users of esolangs appear weak.)

PhiNotPi

Although mixing Greek and Latin roots is usually against style guidelines.

Sven The Surfer

@trichoplax shucks.

Alex A.

I read that as "trichoplax sucks" and was about to be very sad.

trichoplax

8:27 PM

@Geobits I'm guessing it's about finding the closest midpoint rather than the average, and just poorly labelled.

PhiNotPi

alex-is-very-sad

3

Geobits

@trichoplax I thought so too, but the "use whichever if there are more than one" part is throwing me off.

trichoplax

@Geobits I really should read the question fully before surmising...

PhiNotPi

I haven't gotten much feedback on my Bitcoin Trading challenge in the sandbox. Is anybody actually interested in it? meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/7171/2867

Geobits

It could still mean either midpoint (say two points opposite), but...

Alex A.

8:28 PM

@PhiNotPi Granted, "esolang" isn't really a word; it's slang constructed as a portmanteau of "esoteric" and "language."

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Add together the corresponding vectors and you'll see it's just on the left side of the origin. Hence, 180 degrees.

PhiNotPi

@AlexA. A portmanteau is a type of word.

trichoplax

@SvenTheSurfer Sorry I meant to immediately explain my disagreement then got carried away. In calculating what I think the answer should be, I find that I agree with you, so now I'm doubly embarrassed :)

Alex A.

Would you mind changing the valid interval to [-180,180]? Would make life a lot easier for quite a few languages. — flawr 32 secs ago

@flawr Like which languages?

Isn't it just the difference between < and <=?

@PhiNotPi Better?

trichoplax

Does it depend on how a particular language implements modular arithmetic?

Sven The Surfer

8:32 PM

@trichoplax Hey, that's great news!

trichoplax

:)

Alex A.

@trichoplax Not really I would think. Because for a negative angle t in degrees, you can convert it to its equivalent postitive angle as 360+t.

That's why 91 and -91 is 180. 91+(360-91)=360, 360/2=180.

I didn't see a need for modular arithmetic.

(But I could be misreading it, which is highly possible >.>)

trichoplax

Yes it's easy to convert but 360+ is a lot of code in golfing languages, and if some need it and some don't I can understand those that do complaining (although that isn't necessarily a reason to change it...)

Daniel M.

Do you think that I should subtract a point or 2 for a cracked submission?

Alex A.

All the points! >:D

Maltysen

8:37 PM

@AlexA. am I allowed to ammend the rules to my question to say that the PINs must be randomly generated?

flawr

@AlexA. It was a misconception of mine regarding atan2. (and yes, it would only be the difference between < and <=)

Alex A.

@Maltysen How many answers do you have on it currently? You can occasionally get away with stuff like that if no one has answered but usually it's a good idea not to make any major changes to the rules once a challenge has been posted.

Maltysen

1

Alex A.

@flawr Oh, okay. :)

Maltysen

its kind of a protest answer

Alex A.

8:38 PM

Protest?

Maltysen

just prints 97531 over and over again

Alex A.

Does it fit within the rules of the challenge as currently defined?

Maltysen

yes, but I have the random tag and its pretty obvious its outside the "spirit"

Alex A.

It has +0/-2 so I think it's safe to say it's not a particularly well received answer thus far. Others may disagree, but IMO go ahead and make the change and notify the answerer.

trichoplax

Just link to it here so we can read it and decide whether/how to vote...

Alex A.

8:41 PM

-2

A: Generate Some Secure PINs

maybe I overlooked the requirement that the PINs must be sensible, but ... Pyth, 17 bytes Arz7VGpbVHp%-9yNT Prints PINs of type 97531 (should not violate rules) with the given length and the given number of times. Online version

@trichoplax You mean link this? ^

flawr

0.o I just noticed that I've had the 19th byte open in 5 tabs.

trichoplax

@AlexA. Yup. Thank you :)

Alex A.

@flawr That's 95 bytes!

flawr

@AlexA. Still no power of 2=/

trichoplax

@flawr Do you get pings at 500% volume?

Alex A.

8:42 PM

Hahaha

flawr

@trichoplax My pings are muted.

Alex A.

@flawr >:O

Why

trichoplax

That's probably for the best... :)

flawr

(Click on the speaker symbol right next to the all-rooms button on the top right.)

Alex A.

What joy is there in life without chat pings?

flawr

8:43 PM

I do not need another tinnitus.

Alex A.

You can turn the volume down...

flawr

Turn down for what?

trichoplax

Wow you can set it to ping for all messages even when not mentioned...

In all rooms you are currently signed into...

flawr

It is funny how I always get songs stuck in my head whenever I heard a certain phrase in english, as a good part of my vocabulary comes from translating/reading song lyrics=)

Alex A.

:D

flawr

8:47 PM

Can anyone give this a final read? Any reasons why I shouldn't post it now?

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

META: I'd like to make a popularity contest out of this, but I am not sure whether that is a good idea. I just liked the idea and thougth I'd post it here. Any ideas what mode this challenge should be used in (and any other thoughts/suggestions) are appreciated. This is going a code-golf challeng...

Alex A.

Hahah

Hahahhaha

I have reviewed Lil Jon and have determined him to be off topic for this site.

He may be able to get help on Stack Overflow.

Optimizer

@flawr ughh.. plane-crash-golf?

flawr

Nope, labyrith golf.

Alex A.

I don't see any glaring issues.

El'endia Starman

^

Optimizer

8:49 PM

what about any burning issues that might crash things?

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi I'm trying to think of a way that the Bitcoin KotH could be changed so that the players are interacting with each other, rather than just working in isolation, but I can't so far. I can't think of anything else to change - and it all seems clear.

Alex A.

@Optimizer None of those either. It appears it will be a safe flight.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@flawr Suggested tag: ascii-art

flawr

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Thx!

Alex A.

@flawr When you post it, don't forget to delete the sandbox post. :)

Optimizer

8:52 PM

How come only I am doing all these plane crash puns ... :/

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@AlexA. AFTER editing it down so it doesn't spam moderators. :P

Alex A.

plane-crashes stale

@VTCAKAVSMoACE More than just mods can see deleted posts, you know. ;)

flawr

I am relieved that there is no plane crash entry in our meme collection.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

(~-.-)~ Technicalities.

Alex A.

Isn't that the CJam quine?

(~-.-)~

VTCAKAVSMoACE

8:53 PM

Is it? O-O

Optimizer

lol no, its not even valid cjam

minxomat

Ow :(

VTCAKAVSMoACE

i-dont-do-cjam

Welp.

That didn't work at all.

Optimizer

[tags:you-don't-do-them-at-all]

flawr

Delete the'

VTCAKAVSMoACE

8:54 PM

;)

Already did.

winky-face

status-alex-a

status-hungry

Why is that grey? @AlexA.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

8:55 PM

I freaked out when I saw this at first. XD

Alex A.

@minxomat [meta-tag:status-hungry]

VTCAKAVSMoACE

It's a meta tag.

Dangit.

minxomat

i-see

PhiNotPi

@trichoplax I also can't think of a way to have the bots interact with each other. My main concern about clarity is in my explanation of how I'm not keeping track of absolute balances.

Optimizer

@minxomat coz its related to metabolism

Alex A.

8:56 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE I danged it.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Man. I really want to do a meme generation challenge now.

minxomat

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Generation as in age or in generator?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

As in a generator - the use of the noun form in this context is purely to avoid an unnecessary gerund.

Alex A.