« first day (1284 days earlier)      last day (2311 days later) » 

1:00 PM
it looks like a hat
 
@cjfaure why not just whitespace?
I don't understand
 
SO does a cloner split in two?
 
do you want to use it as shading?
 
@MartinBüttner so you can divide the code visually :D plus you can use dots if you're working in an environment that strips whitespace (i'm looking at you html)
 
@overactor I would like it to :D
 
1:01 PM
or if your spacebar is being mean
 
@cjfaure how about ASCII box drawing characters?
 
@MartinBüttner i thought that was in 1383 only?
 
it's totally 2014
 
xD
 
anyway, it's annoying to enter with a keyboard
 
1:02 PM
@MartinBüttner how do you do that monospace thing?
 
(see my Venn diagram)
 
@EoinCampbell I didn't get to fixing that answer last night, major headache yesterday.....
 
@overactor multi line post, then four spaces
or click the "fixed font" button
 
or ctrl+k
 
@MartinBüttner There's a fixed font button?
 
1:03 PM
ninja'd ._.
 
I see no buttons...
 
@overactor if you shift+enter, it becomes visible
 
It appears when you add a line break
shift+enter
ninja'd, the fourth
 
Huh.... I've never noticed that.
 
we're all ninjas today
i'm so ninja-y, i ate ramen for lunch
 
1:04 PM
Ninjas don't eat ramen, the slurping gives them away.
2
 
@Geobits I know, right?
 
fuck it
 
spaces, mate... spaces
(or ctrl+k)
I'll try writing a multiplier
 
 A
  A
 \ /
\ /
multiply by 3
 
yeah
(I mean an n*m multiplier ^^)
 
1:08 PM
How do we generalize this
Yeah
 
I have an idea... give me 5 minutes
 
How do you stop a loop from running in general?
 
break
 
@overactor In what language?
 
@Rainbolt Marbelous
 
1:11 PM
deactivate the portal ;333
 
Can't even Google marbelous properly. It doesn't even ask me if I meant marvelous. It just shows me the results it thinks I needed...
 
not sure how to do that
 
 P1 I1 .. I2 .. ..
 \  .. P2 A  P3 ..
 .. S1 S1 .. S1 ..
 .. .. \  .. A  ..
 .. S2 .. .. .. ..
 .. DD .. P2 .. P3
 .. P1 .. .. .. ..
 
@Rainbolt together we can change google
 
okay, so I used the following notation
PN are portal pairs
 
1:12 PM
google will ask people who google "marvelous" if they meant "marbelous" ;D
 
yes, notation important
 
Change the Google, change the world.
 
I1 and I2 are where the inputs are assumed to fall in
SN are synchronisers
DD is a decrementor
 
@Geobits woah, don't get too far ahead of yourself, start with the world first
 
all that's missing is something to abort it when the value falling through the left column becomes 0
(but we haven't specified branches yet)
@overactor by toggling deflectors
we just need to specify how that works
I think P2 and P3 should be one cell further up
to avoid ambiguities
 
1:14 PM
afk for a few minutes, recording some piano tunez for the jingle
 
@MartinBüttner why is there only one S2?
 
forgot to remove that from an earlier attempt
ditch that line
 P1 I1 .. P2 I2 P3 ..
 \  .. .. .. A  .. ..
 .. S1 .. S1 .. S1 ..
 .. .. .. \  .. A  ..
 .. DD .. .. P2 .. P3
 .. P1 .. .. .. .. ..
now if you could toggle lower \ when the lefthand value becomes 1, you've got your multiplier
okay, seriously, how do you enter a single monospaced backslash in markdown?
 
No clue
Oh
I have an idea for branches
>n
only the biggest value falls trough
 
the biggest?
 
yeah
If you have 2 >1's in your program
every tick, it checks which values are in both operators
all but the biggest gets deleted
 
1:21 PM
oh I see... that's more like a "max" operator though, right?
when I saw your notation I thought it would be simpler:
 
Yeah, but you can use it to create branches
 
if the value coming in is greater than n, deflect to the right, else deflect to the left
you could use similar notation for <n =n etc
 
Since you know the value that falls through also has a position
but =255
Also not very dynamic
 
simply use the byte itself to encode the value
that will be annoying to enter for smaller values though
What do you mean by not dynamic?
 
well, compare two values with eachother with your operator
Versatile is the better word I suppose
 
1:25 PM
hmmm
let me think
you could build it in about the same size as the multiplier
the main problem is deflecting a value based on another value
(like in the multiplier)
you'd need deflectors that are linked to another switch
 
Which is exactly why I was introducing my max operator
 
How would that help for the multiplying case?
the decrementing value and the product are completely unrelated
 
If you also include a normalizer
 
you need to deflect the product when the decrementing value reaches 1
 
(makes 1 out of any value)
You can split your iterator
 
1:28 PM
ah I have an idea
 
normalize one clone
check which one is larger
 
it would probably even work with my branch
 
if the normalized on is larger, it'll fall through and you can portal it to somewhere so it'll toggle a deflector and break the loop
True, but my branch can relatively easily create yours
Split, normalize and multiply by a fixed value and max
 
P1 I1 .. P2 I2 ..
\  .. .. \  .. ..
.. S1 .. .. S1 ..
.. >1 .. .. A  ..
S2 .. -- .. .. ..
U  .. P1 S2 .. P2
U is a trash bin
 
@MartinBüttner That's not a very nice thing to say.
 
1:33 PM
:D
 
@MartinBüttner That's not reusable though
Oh wait
 
@overactor in what sense?
 
it is
That's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen
 
-- is defintely the nicer mnemonic for a decrementer
 
True
++ for incrementor I suppose
 
1:34 PM
it doesn't work for a zero left-hand operator yet, but it's fairly compact ^^
wait that's easily fixed
 
back, and i'm so used to classical that I can only write in minor xD
failboat amirite
"Ninjas don't eat ramen, they cook them first."
 
P1 I1 .. P2 I2 ..
\  .. .. \  .. ..
.. >0 .. .. S1 ..
.. .. S1 ..  A ..
S2 .. -- 00 .. ..
U  .. P1 S2 .. P2
 
that would make a good terrible twist tiger
 
the 00 is a literal
now I'm writing multipliers in languages that don't even exist... PPCG is really destroying my life, I think...
2
 
Wait, what does a literal do?
 
1:38 PM
it's a value that starts there
damn, now it's not reusable
we need value factories
actually you can build them with a splitter an synchroniser
 
@Geobits I know how to make people follow the format!
 
.. Pn ..
.. 00 ..
.. Sm ..
.. A  ..
Pn .. ..
is a factory for zeros that produces a zero, whenever Sm is triggered
(falling out to the bottom right)
 
@Geobits Split from PPCG and build a web form dedicated to KotHs. You upload your code, give it a name, and specify the command that runs your program!
 
@MartinBüttner Nice
 
@Rainbolt Well, yes, I suppose that would work. On a totally different site that you own, you could impose any rules you want.
 
1:42 PM
btw, in case it hasn't been clear, I think we should try to keep the concepts of the language to a minimum... this is not a productive or a golfing language, so there is no need for things to be concise... this is closer to manufactoria where it's fun to figure out how to even do the simplest things... and in the interest of getting a working interpreter, we should keep the components as simple as possible
 
that looks really weird on the sidebar ;_;
Still shorter than Python.
while 1:print(0)
 
@Rainbolt That sorta defeats the purpose of "let's make it easier for people to post koths on ppcg", though.
 
well, lunch break is over, I need to get some work done.
 
Well, maybe PPCG isn't the place for it. I feel like KotH has a lot more potential outside of PPCG
 
ping me if there's a google doc I can contribute to
 
1:45 PM
 
@Rainbolt thank you
 
@Rainbolt It probably does have potential elsewhere, just like other challenges. There are plenty of code-this-thing sites, but splitting off from PPCG is sure to lose a lot of audience.
 
except it's read-onlt :P
fail
 
Reload lol
 
thanks
I added my contribution
 
1:46 PM
Fabulous!
 
What are we contributing to?
 
@Geobits to that google doc
 
Ah.
 
.. P1 I1 .. .. .. I2 P2 ..
.. .. A  .. .. .. A  .. ..
.. -- .. S1 .. S2 .. -- ..
.. .. .. \f .. /f .. .. ..
.. >0 .. .. \t .. .. >0 ..
S1 .. P1 .. .. .. S2 .. P2
U  .. .. U  .. .. U  .. ..
takes two inputs, outputs the largest
 
what are f and t?
 
1:47 PM
fixed and togglable
 
does toggleable always toggle?
 
or togglable false and togglable true
I'd say yes
 
ah yes that's exactly how I imagined the computing max
wait I think the toggleable one needs to start in the other direction
otherwise it gives min
 
Oh, yeah
Or switch the S1 and S2 at the top
 
1:49 PM
That's quicker
 
a logo, anyone?
 
idontgetit
 
yay I'm doing all the useless stuff :P
 
Black line need sto be thicker
 
@overactor whats that thing you posted above? what game?
 
1:51 PM
@Sparr this is no game!
 
it's a marble in a box o:
 
nah we're dreaming up an esolang
 
ahh, for falling marbles?
 
You think this is a game?!
 
Need moar drop shadowz
 
1:51 PM
@Sparr yes, basically
 
@Geobits it's supposed to be minimal ;_;
 
i don't even know why i put the line in there xD
 
it's supposed to be a joke ;_;
 
@Sparr you program a grid of "operators" (we need a better word) and bytes are falling through it. so the values themselves determine the control flow basically.
 
1:52 PM
However, it is a bit flat for my taste.
I don't get "marble" from it.
 
@MartinBüttner does it have arguments or just an input stream?
 
For functions, you define In as input points and On as output points
 
@cjfaure make the circle more sphere-shaded, instead of just the one specular reflection?
 
You also give it a free character to represent it
 
@Sparr hm
 
1:54 PM
@Sparr the original ideas as STDIN coming through the top left corner
but if we add functions then you'd just choose your input cells
 
can functions have multibyte arguments?
if so, do they fall in one at a time?
 
values are only bytes
 
Then in another function, you can put [FunctionChar]n as imputs for the function and
 
so you can just have multiple inputs
 
Wait, I'm stuck
 
1:55 PM
@cjfaure To me the most recognizable feature that would scream "marble" would be some sort of swirl, either on the inside or outside: google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=marble%20ball
 
You need an additional character so you can use a function in multiple places
 
@Geobits got it, ty
 
Otherwise it's just a ball.
 
@cjfaure Make it black and white
 
@overactor why? ;_;
xD
 
1:57 PM
@cjfaure one character for the function, one to enumerate the inputs
 
@cjfaure Or any two colors
 
oh
I thought you had replied to other post
 
eh? eh? o:
why thinks it should be b/w?
 
@MartinBüttner We need at least 3 characters in total
 
1:59 PM
@cjfaure That one's about 431% better.
 
@Geobits i moved the dot a bit further in now
 
@overactor meh
 
i'll make it a line actually
 
[function identifier][inputnumber][tag]
 
I think if you're going to crop it, though, you should crop the top-left curve out also.
It makes it look oblong to me for some reason.
 
2:00 PM
@MartinBüttner It's not looking good for functions
 
alternatively functions could just collect the inputs in a single cell
 
In a specific order?
 
well in the order the inputs are numbered in the function definition
 
And only start when It's full?
 
yes
it's a trivial change from your suggestion
 
2:01 PM
True
 
replace the functions with a portal, deflect both portals into a single function
 
how's that? :D
 
Seriously, though, the name Marbelous sound like Engrish. It reminds me of Japanese bideo stores selling dibidis.
 
cjfaure, making terrible vector graphics since 2011
 
2:03 PM
I just realized Google has the ability to filter by Stack Exchange results. site:stackexchange.com searchTerm1 searchTerm2
 
@Geobits took me longer than I'd like to admit to figure out you were talking about DVDs :P
 
@MartinBüttner Do we define functions though, or do we let the programmer create them?
 
@Rainbolt Google can do that for any site...
 
The advantage of making actual functions is that you won't run out of portals too quickly
and you can use the function in several places
and you can do recursion
 
@Sparr For those who are nitpicky like Sparr: I just realized Google has the ability to filter by a specific site's results.
 
2:06 PM
with portals, things get messy very quickly
 
@Geobits Marbles!
 
@Rainbolt LMGTFY :p
 
@overactor you mean built-ins? naaah, no built-ins.
 
I found a real application of a LMGTFY link and was unable to post it in the comments :(
 
we can optinally provide the SML (standard marble library)
 
2:07 PM
@MartinBüttner No I mean functions with their own body
 
I should just use the text "LMGTFY" for any link that's actually useful, just to make people wary of it.
 
I don't understand
 
i updated marbelous-lang's avatar
 
Well, functions should have their own grid and all have their own identifier
and not be in some corner of the main grid and be accessed by portals
 
ah that's what you mean
yes they definitely have their own context
 
2:10 PM
Where does their output go?
comes out the bottom one by one?
 
any bottom cell
oh you mean when using them
comes out the bottom yes... how to handle multiple outputs is a good question
 
Maybe functions need to define output points?
and the function exits when they are all filled
Though maybe just one output is plenty
@cjfaure Nice, getting the important stuff out of the way first I see
 
@overactor yeah, it's vital :D
 
Is anyone saving these small grids we've been making?
 
I've already added them to SkyNet. She is patching them together like a quilt to sleep in, except that she doesn't sleep.
 
2:21 PM
Once she's done, we'll all sleep.
 
That just made me shudder for some completely unrelated reason
 
@overactor I'll put them in a markdown file in a documentation repo later today
 
We all float down here...
That's it I'm having nightmares tonight
 
Yep, probably the creepiest book I've read.
I don't even know why, it just is.
 
We need a print operator
3
is there something like ASCII with 256 characters?
 
2:24 PM
@overactor How much are you willing to pay?
3
 
You are on a roll Baconbits!
 
:D
Mmmm... bacon bits on a roll.
2
 
Oh cmon keep the two related comments with equal stars
So they are next to each in the transcript
 
no problem
what book are you talking about?
 
XD
It is a 1986 horror novel by American author Stephen King. The story follows the exploits of seven children as they are terrorized by an eponymous being, which exploits the fears and phobias of its victims in order to disguise itself while hunting its prey. "It" primarily appears in the form of a clown in order to attract its preferred prey of young children. The novel is told through narratives alternating between two time periods, and is largely told in the third-person omniscient mode. It deals with themes which would eventually become King staples: the power of memory, childhood trauma, and...
 
2:26 PM
I just wish I could pin Martin's post from yesterday.
 
ah okay
 
We also need a paint pixels operator, which takes two coordinates and a color code
 
@Geobits it's going to float back up once you're posts get a bit older
@overactor what do we need a print operator for?
bytes falling out of the main grid are printed to STDOUT
 
One more star and it ties for the most starred ever here.
 
@Geobits which one was that?
I was trying to find it
 
2:27 PM
Omg I'm going to be nauseous by the end of the day if people keep saying float and other words that remind me of that
 
but couldn't find an option to sort by stars
 
@MartinBüttner Oh, right
 
and no I don't think Marbelous needs to be capable of graphical output :D
@Geobits lol
 
@MartinBüttner Come on
You can enable it and then you always get a 256 by 256 window
no smaller, no bigger
 
2:28 PM
@overactor you can write function that prints a ppm image to stdout
@Geobits how did you find it?
 
Someone should remove their star from that post
 
I was curious yesterday, so I wasted some time then. Turns out it was something I'd starred, and when you use the "starred by me" tab it sorts by stars for some reason.
 
@overactor IIRC, you cannot remove stars anymore after a period of time (don't know the exact length of the period).
 
@overactor I don't think that's possible after some time
 
Too bad
 
2:32 PM
ninja'd, no. 5
I'm really slow today
 
@MartinBüttner "I don't that that" :P
 
@ProgramFOX wat
 
>:D
 
@Rainbolt Forgive me for asking, but what do you have to do to get on this list? :o
 
@Geobits You have to ask a room owner/mod.
 
2:35 PM
:D
 
What on earth?
OH!
 
i hit my rep cap for the second day in a row?
wat?
 
congrats! :)
 
@Geobits Doorknob made me a room owner for like 3 seconds. Perhaps it had some side effects he did not anticipate lol.
 
@MartinBüttner ty :P
 
2:38 PM
@Rainbolt "Write access" does not do anything if you have the privilege to chat and if the room is public.
 
at this rate i'll be at 2k in no time...wow
 
@ProgramFOX Yea I know. I learned at least enough in my Unix class to understand permissions. I think Geobits was just wondering how I got on the list because people like to be on lists.
 
Yeah, that's true :D
 
@Rainbolt I was just curious, never seen the list before. I thought it was odd that there were only two people on it, an SE mod and... you :D
 
I should be placed on the "can only send ten messages per day" list.
 
2:41 PM
Almost finished with the controller for my Traders KoTH
 
@Rainbolt waiting for Doorknob's "ask and you shall receive post"...
 
@MartinBüttner Can you link to the post you wanted me to read that I said I would read yesterday? I'll read it but I'm super lazy
 
no problem
2
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIV

Martin BüttnerUnderwater Survival Game king-of-the-hill Lions and bears are extinct, the wolves dominate the fauna on land. But in the depths of the sea the battle for survival rages on. This is the spiritual sequel to Rainbolt's Survival Game, with a few additions. The arena is the sea and hence three-dime...

the specific numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt, since I haven't run any numbers for reasonable player densities etc.
but some feedback for the general concept would be nice :)
thanks!
 
@Martin, how could you get in a fight choosing Breed and your opponent choosing Breed?
because you can't breed if you move
 
@NathanMerrill did I say that was possible?
(I think I may have added the not-moving restriction later)
oh I did write that
whoops
wait no
that does make sense
because nothing prevents you from choosing "Breed" while moving
you just won't actually create any offspring
 
2:53 PM
@MartinBüttner a lot of pieces of the underwater challenge seem unnecessarily complicated, to the point that most entries will mostly or completely ignore them.
 
...like what?
 
the mantis shrimp
 
@Sparr that's not necessarily a bad thing if some people figure out to use them to their advantage
@Sparr all of the hazards are necessary to provide bots with an incentive to leave their breeding grounds
 
@MartinBüttner I need some feedback as well, but not on the entire post just yet. For the Dining Philosopher's challenge, what exactly would a philsopher need to know in order to make a decision? The past history of all previous moves from all participants, or simply the current setup, or maybe even just the utensils that are to his left and right?
 
The mantis shrimp could be used to hide
 
2:55 PM
 
@cjfaure thank you
 
;D
 
@Rainbolt will there be communication between the bots?
 
also, the RPS combat thing... if you want pseudo-random, great, but adding a "track and predict opponents' combat" layer like the RPSLV tourney doesn't seem like it adds fun, just complexity
 
@Sparr The RPS is not intended to be tracked and predicted. It's near impossible as well. It just provides a rather simple combat system. And makes you think twice before engaging in combat, because you can't win with a high probably.
 
2:57 PM
@MartinBüttner There can be. Brb have to do a code review.
 
It worked really well in Wolf.
 
I could allow persistence to avoid having to pass the history
brb
 
just the current utensils plus messages from other bots could be interesting
you don't want this to be another pattern-matching KotH I take it
 

« first day (1284 days earlier)      last day (2311 days later) »