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01:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

3:00 PM
How can we popularize the blog a little? There should be a link from the main site at least. I wonder if this is possible.
@belisarius true, but I'd rather not annoy the powers that be. Sorry.
@Szabolcs I think that has to be turned on manually, but I'd post in their blog chat room.
@rcollyer What a pity! :D
It is what it is. :P
"Treehouse of Horror XIII" is the first episode of The Simpsons' fourteenth season, as well as the thirteenth Halloween episode. The episode aired on November 3, 2002, three days after Halloween. It is the second Treehouse of Horror to have a zombie-related segment, and the last Treehouse of Horror to have three separate writers credited for writing three stories (starting with "Treehouse of Horror XIV", only one writer is credited for writing the three stories). This is also the first episode to use the digital ink and paint as a proof of concept, which led to the decision to have The ...
^Send in the Clones!
I am so bad at graphics it's embarrassing... anyone know why the lines go slightly outside the frame here? (This is not a PlotRangeClipping issue, nor is it specific to the .pdf; it only happens for certain ImageSizes...)
@OleksandrR. Is it a GraphicsRow? A Row?
3:09 PM
@Szabolcs yes, it is.
A GraphicsRow.
@OleksandrR. I really don't know, but it looks like you have PlotRangePadding -> 0. Could you set it to a small but higher value, comparable to the link thickness?
@OleksandrR. My hunch is that the system uses several systems of measurement: plot coordinates, absolute (offset) coordinates, scaled coordinates. How these come together in a single plot sometimes depends on the size of the plot, which is calculated by the front end. Even things like font sizes matter when choosing e.g. the automatic image margins. Maybe the front end calculates some measurement based on rasterized font sizes, even when exporting to PDF, and there may be roundoff errors.
My suggestion: set your range on the x-axis to be a little wider on the 0 side, via PlotRange -> {{-0.1, 6.1}, Automatic}. This will give it a little space and the plots should stop at 0 like they do at 6.
This is just a guess and won't help you fix it, unfortunately.
Thanks. That would work, but the data goes off either side unfortunately so it doesn't in fact.
How are you getting it to stop at 6, then?
3:16 PM
@rcollyer ends at 5.8 actually. It exists between -0.7 and 5.8. Maybe just chop off the points before 0? Seems an ugly hack though.
@rcollyer PlotRangeClipping -> True (default for Plot) should handle this, shouldn't it? But it doesn't.
Ah, I see it doesn't stop at 6. Yeah, I'd chop it. Ugly, yes, but it works.
@OleksandrR. Not an option I've used before.
@Szabolcs I think you are almost certainly right. It's a shame that this occurs though.
@Szabolcs no, I just saw the trailer for it. I've read all the stories a few times though
is the series/film any good?
@OleksandrR. Unfortunately, according to the docs, not quite. Note the line of pink outside the Frame.
@belisarius and gardening. don't forget gardening
3:19 PM
@acl I enjoyed it. I didn't expect much from it---placing it in modern times---but it was actually pretty good. A bit harsh though ..
@acl Damn, I forgot about that one. Do you think @Yoda will come and get me?
@rcollyer nah, nasty little reptile is a coward.
@acl True. After all, he hid from the empire. (or was that umpire? does he play baseball?)
@OleksandrR. It's funny, but I'd regard the imperfect clipping as a bug.
@acl Hehe. We may start bullying the other sites. Let's migrate the "label peeling" question into "cooking" and the "search wally" one into gis.
@belisarius It's not like either of those sites is doing anything useful, anyway. We'd be helping them out!
3:24 PM
@rcollyer hmm, interesting. Have to have a look at that one in the FE then.
Thanks @rcollyer and @Szabolcs for your suggestions.
@rcollyer Moreover, we could design questions for migrating them
@belisarius Now you're talking.
@OleksandrR. You're welcome.
@belisarius You don't think SE would get mad, do you? We're performing a service after all.
@rcollyer Of course. "How could I model the temperature profile of my cake as a function of time while in the oven (and beyond)?"
@rcollyer in the FE, as you resize it, the pink line appears and disappears. So I think it must be a rounding issue. Next question: what is the Graphics Method option that makes it work in arbitrary rather than machine precision?
@belisarius I was thinking of branching into direct oven control via mma, myself.
3:29 PM
@rcollyer That one is for "game development"
I want to control a DSLR using Mma. Part of the work is done.
I liked a fleet instead of just being a clone, so...
@J.M. a Klemperer rosette!
@Szabolcs true. How about a CNC router? Or, a 3D printer? That would be fun!
Well that took all of 2 seconds to get migrated here! It's good to be a full-fledged member of SE!
@rcollyer I flagged it. Did you also?
3:44 PM
@Szabolcs no, I hadn't.
3:56 PM
@Szabolcs Wow, we answered at almost the same time...
I got really slow lately, got to exercise my mind more!
It's just age catching up with you. Don't worry, you won't notice soon enough.
Ah, I enjoy the sublime beauty that is an underutilized queue on a compute cluster. Where even largish jobs take little to no time to start running. Maintenance cycles are a wonderful thing!
@Szabolcs: I believe "monotonically increasing" is the more popular way of saying it... :)
Isn't that what I said? *Checks ... *
@Szabolcs Now it does. :)
4:01 PM
@J.M. I did have a strange feeling when I was writing it, I knew you corrected me before, but wanted to publish the answer before looking it up and then I forgot about it :-)
Nice gravatar @J.M.
@J.M. I like monotonously.
@Szabolcs I felt greedy, so I wanted an entire fleet of those logos... :D
@rcollyer Sounds boring... ;)
@J.M. Aren't monotonic functions just that, though? Useful, yes. But, ultimately boring.
@J.M. I hadn't notice that it was recursive down to the 3rd level.
pretty cool.
I want my 20k privileges back!
I still like mine: the very, very rare photon-photon interaction.
4:06 PM
@rcollyer That's just because the computer crashed when I tried Nest[f, stuff, 4]... :D
@Szabolcs Nah, I don't want 20k privileges, I want my 10k ones back!
There's going to be a bit more burden on the mods now.
@J.M. really, crashed at 4. I think it is a clear case your employer needs to buy you a better computer so that you can render things more effectively.
Hm, that's not so easy in some countries ... (I know it from first hand experience)
@rcollyer Well, no one in RL knows that I do artwork... :)
...and artwork is a somewhat flimsy excuse for getting bigger computers in my neck of the woods.
4:09 PM
@Szabolcs True, but Leonid just crossed over (to the other side), and you and R.M are just a week or two away from that, tops.
@J.M. Well it should be! ;)
@rcollyer conisder Plot[PrimePi[x], {x, 0, 100}]
@acl booorrring! :P
@acl Reminds me... I liked that animation where RiemannR[] slowly morphs into PrimePi[] by adding terms corresponding to each zero of Zeta[]...
I renamed the question, it's really about equally spaced points on any curve, not just a knot. Or: all the answers are generic for any curve.
...of course, it's boring if you have no interest whatsoever in number theory...
4:12 PM
@Szabolcs Makes it more accessible, but isn't knot a general term for just that?
@Szabolcs good call.
I think I missed a memo.
@Heike I think bel's in charge of recruitment for the Clone Armada...
Is it remember-the-real-logo day?
@J.M. I briefly looked at the RSA challenge when it was still active, but in general number theory doesn't interest me that much, in general. Although, where it intersects with physics does make me think I may have to learn a bit more.
@Heike I do find Ajasja's religious overtones amusing.
4:18 PM
@rcollyer neither does it interest me to be honest (not that I know much about it). I guess different people enjoy different things :)
@rcollyer Tolkien is a religion now? :)
@J.M. I thought the "one true ..." was a Christian theme, and I don't recall it in Tolkien. But, yes, some people feel that Tolkien deserves that kind of worship.
@rcollyer well, in traditional literature anyway, if memory serves. :)
dare I say it? I like Vitaliy's suggestion much better than either the current logo or The True Logo
@rcollyer "one ring to rule them all"
4:21 PM
@Heike I liked your typo... :D
@J.M. so did I.
@rcollyer I liked the lord of the rings when I read it, also the film. But when I read the Silmarillion I literally did not understand what he was talking about
@Heike Ah, but that is not the same as the "one true <whatever>"
@acl There is something dignified about a Voronoi diagram stylized like stained glass...
@acl I got most of the way through it, and it is truly, truly awful. Having studied a bit of mythology, I understood what he was doing. But, it was almost as bad as Dracula.
4:24 PM
@rcollyer In the silmarillion there is mention of a creator who created the universe.
@Heike True, but I don't recall anything resembling that phrase.
@acl The silmarillion is a bit hard to get into. It took me three tries to get going.
@Heike maybe that's my problem. lack of patience
@rcollyer The solutions would work even for not-closed curves (non-periodic functions). I thought 'curve' is a more likely search term.
@J.M. I think it's because it's blue, actually. I like blue
4:29 PM
@Szabolcs any plane or space curve, in fact.
@acl I presume you haven't even attempted Tolstoy... :)
(...which I'll understand. Guy's hella wordy.)
@Szabolcs I agreed with the change. I think it is more accessible.
@J.M. I'm assuming you mean: War and Peace. I've read a bit of his short stories, and found them reasonable. Realism, though, is usually not my cup of tea.
@rcollyer Yes. What a tome, that one...
@J.M. I've read War and Peace and Anna Karenina, that I remember. Probably others too. Also, some Greek writers tend to be significantly wordier than anything I've found in foreign literature (pages to describe a beach, etc). It's not the wordiness that I had a problem with in Silmarillion, it's not understanding what was going on.
@J.M. Never tried to read it.
If anyone feels adventurous, there's a problem with the Twitter background. It only tiles in one direction, and I'm not sure how to fix it.
4:34 PM
@rcollyer Gave up after forty or so pages myself...
@rcollyer @Ajasja is using the slightly less hyperbolic logo that verbeia made as a compromise
@J.M. Ha! I only made it 30 pgs into Dracula, so I feel your pain.
12 hours ago, by Vitaliy Kaurov
user image
@R.M so, Ajasja is a heretic, then?
@rcollyer or the rest of them are
depends on the viewpoint
or maybe there are two true logos?
4:35 PM
@acl exactly. :)
@acl Careful, the Cathars had the same problem.
@rcollyer people are crazy
@acl There is no doubt about that.
@rcollyer right, trivial statement I made there
Tautological, even.
@rcollyer try Master and Margharita. Not wordy, works on many levels from superficial to deep analysis. I absolutely loved it
or whatever the title is in english, the one by Bulgakov.
admittedly, I read it in english and didn't like it as much, so I guess it depends on the translator and language too
4:40 PM
@acl added it to my to-read list.
@rcollyer my to-read list is so long that I have to create a to-read-to-read list to remember to read my to-read lists
@R.M I haven't checked my to-read list in months. But, I keep it around just so when I get to it, I can actually work on it a bit.
I have a to-read list for papers. that's hundreds of papers long and doesn't get any shorter
never mind books
I have the same issue with books, one comes off, five get added.
@rcollyer books I gave up years ago. now I read randomly
eg, the last couple of weeks I have been reading Niven and related books
started randomly, and will continue until I run out of books in a few days I guess.
4:46 PM
I'm reading the second book in the Game of Thrones series, right now, despite having read the first over 2 years ago and not remembering a damn thing.
@rcollyer I had no idea about that series until now (as I said, my reading is a bit random)
I think I got attracted to Niven by remembering the Ringworld, which I read some years ago, and just started going all his books now
@rcollyer I've heard mixed things about that series.
@acl I highly recommend Hyperion. It is a stunning work.
@Szabolcs it seems that whatever method the FE uses for layout isn't shared by Windows or my printer, because there are no rounding errors when these are exported to EMF, put into a Word document, and printed. So I'm happy after all.
@Heike so did I. Supposedly the first book was very good, and from what I remember, it was. But, the rest of the series was supposed to be luke-warm. So, until I got stuck in the airport this past weekend, I hadn't bothered to pick it up. Now, I don't recall what was going on!
@OleksandrR. Interesting.
4:51 PM
@rcollyer With the Harry Potter series I forgot what happened within a week after finishing a book.
@Heike (: I've re-read them so many times, it is burned into my memory. So much so, that I find the movies jarring. The first two movies are good, the third: incomprehensible, and the fourth: completely changed enough of Dumbledore's personality that I'm loathe to watch the rest. However, there was a sight gag in the fifth that was worth it, but the rest of the movie was not really worth my time.
@acl I also highly recommend Ender's Game.
I don't think I've seen any of the H.P. films after the fourth one.
I stopped watching after they turned the brightness and saturation so low to convey the darker tone of the plot, that I couldn't tell if I was blind or colour blind
Among my friends, we have a rating scale based on how much we'd be willing to pay to see a movie. The highest rating: we'd see it multiple times in the theatre. The second lowest: we'd only see it if someone else rented it (i.e. not even worth seeing it in the theartre if someone else payed for it.) I rate the fifth movie at that level. (The lowest rating: would not see it if someone else was paying.)
@rcollyer The fifth book is the worst in the series as well (at least if I remember correctly and that's the one with Harry moping around in his Uncle's garden for the first 80 pages)
5:00 PM
@Heike yeah, that part sucked.
Bye all, for now.
5:24 PM
@Jin did I find an omission?
Or is this on the to-do list?
5:47 PM
@OleksandrR. that's a cached old ad banner graphic
i've already made a newer version. it should be live today or tomorrow
by caching, i mean system caching, not your client caching
@Jin ah, okay. Thanks for the info!
@Jin another thing while you're here -- links in posts are underlined always, but elsewhere on the site they underline only when hovered. Is this a design choice or a CSS bug?
@OleksandrR. it's by choice.
the reason is because most links on the site, question titles on homepage, sidebar links etc are pretty obviously links, by context
but within the post body, it's not as obvious
the reason I underlined the post body links is because of accessibility
that maroon i picked for link color is not color blind friendly.
Yes, I agree with that reasoning and prefer them to be underlined. Do you think it would be possible to have the links in comments also underlined?
so the post link need to have more affordance
@OleksandrR. yes! i forgot about the comment text body. i'll fix that today
6:04 PM
@Jin Inline code snippets become blue in links, is that intentional? (Doesn't look like it is.)
@Szabolcs bug indeed. fixing
6:22 PM
@Jin On your mockup there is an ad similar to this, but a bit prettier (with gradient and shadow):
I was wondering if you've already made one with the new logo, that we can use to update. Otherwise I'll make it.
One concern is that if we don't use "Mathematica Answers" then it looks like an ad for Mathematica itself ...
@Szabolcs do you have the url for that meta post?
A: What would be a good community promotion ad?

VerbeiaThis is just a tweak on Szabolcs' ad, with a different slogan to make the case for why someone should join (we're fun! Just look at some of the most upvoted questions!) using "BeachColors" Also using "BeachColors" but reversing the ordering of the colours and removing the extremes: colour5...

@Szabolcs what url does that ad banner actually link to? the site itself?
@Jin Yes, the site itself. We used it before graduation to draw more attention. It was posted on Math, Physics, and Stats (and a few more).
@Szabolcs hmm, well does it make sense for it to continue to link to the site itself? don't you think it'd be confusing?
for other SE sites the community Ads link to site's twitter account, or some other niche related projects
6:28 PM
@Jin That's true, I was simply wondering if we should update the existing posts to the new look. I just noticed that it got removed from Math.SE (I don't know why).
I just noticed Chemistry.SE did it too --- meta.physics.stackexchange.com/a/1334/5874
@Szabolcs do you have photoshop?
@Jin Yes. I can make it using the image you gave us yesterday. I was simply wondering if you already made it for some reason (to avoid duplication of effort).
to answer your original request, i can certain make an updated version of the Ad banner, whatever purpose it may be.
@Szabolcs I'll send you a .psd file.
I think "Follow @stackmma on twitter" might be nice... it directs people to a medium that's easier to follow than the main site and the link to our site is there on the twitter page
6:33 PM
@R.M Regarding ads on this site, I was thinking that events like this can be posted: blog.wolfram.com/2012/07/17/… But I'm a bit worried because this is advertisement for the company ... on the other hand it's useful to learn about these free events!
aaaand we have another 10k user
@J.M. Do you know what happened to the ad we posted on Math.SE? Not that we need it ... but I was surprised to find it missing.
@Szabolcs we could do ads for packages that people develop — some of the stuff that you and Leonid have been working on could be publicized there
I wouldn't mind highlighting the conferences and free webinars... but you're right, these are some points to discuss/think about. To what extent is promotion for WRI allowed?
Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2012

Shog9What are Community Promotion Ads? Community Promotion Ads are community-vetted advertisements that will show up on the main site, in the right sidebar. The purpose of this question is the vetting process. Images of the advertisements are provided, and community voting will enable the advertiseme...

@R.M Yes, that's a good idea! Also ads for some of the most useful packages. But it would be best if the package authors took the time to make the ads. Also, I wouldn't make the ads for those WRI events but I'd vote for them if someone from WRI did.
@StackExchange I swear I didn't see that one before starting to talk about this!
6:39 PM
@Szabolcs sent you the psd file
Thanks, got it!
@Szabolcs That's what I was wondering — would it be a conflict of interest if WRI employees posted community ads for WRI products and services? Are they allowed to become moderators (don't know if there's any internal WRI statement on that) or if there'll be some kind of conflict of interest? I got the impression from Leonid's recent meta answer that not having WRI in any position of control is a good thing, but I haven't thought much about it
So far, they've been advertising it in their profiles which is perfectly fine and encouraged
I'm not sure any of them want to be moderators...
It's a lot of work, not something you want your boss to know about. Unless you're paid for it.
That wasn't the point really... it was more along what are the guidelines. I haven't worked for any organization in my life and I don't know anything about what could be constituted as conflict of interest, etc.
I would vote for ads about things that I'd be happy to learn about, and I think others would feel the same, such as the Mathematica Experts Live sessions. I would not vote for an ad for a new commercial product (e.g. SystemModeler, or Finance Platform).
6:47 PM
@Szabolcs I feel the same way. I'd happily vote for events like the Experts Live sessions, maybe even the Wolfram Technology Conference, but perhaps not for a commercial product or service
also, I would be fine with any moderately relevant beta site wanting to advertise their site on our community ad page. We should be courteous and extend our help to other beta sites, just like physics/stats/math did for us. I probably wouldn't vote for the ads, but they (who put the ads up) are welcome to vote.
regarding this
Q: Mathematica.SE - Wolfram - what is this community doing to get listed on MMA Community page?

fredob314I am new to Mathematica and find this site very helpful. Much more than the MathGroup that is listed on the the community page of Mathematica, see Wolfram Support page. So in the interest of getting even more attention from users of Mathematica, I am wondering what this community is doing to ge...

I would like to know, what would it be in it for us? More questions?
(and, just imagining for a sec myself being in the position of someone at WRI trying to decide whether or not to link here: of course not, who knows what will happen in the future and it's out of my control)
but I have no experience with this sort of thing, I am reasoning as a person.
but anyway, what would be in it for "me" (ie, us)? why should I care either way?
(it's a genuine question)
Eventually it may be nice. But I think right now it might attract disproportionately many basic questions (compared to the number of people who'd get stuck to answer). If it looks "official", people may start to demand support.
It is highly unlikely they'll link to us. Even that page says "Explore our forums"
MathGroup is not managed by WRI though.
I got the impression that it was (from Leonid's comment)
@fredob314 Oh no, it is under WRI control, at least partially. — Leonid Shifrin 3 hours ago
6:57 PM
but is the answer to my question so obvious that everybody apart from me sees it? how come nobody discusses this? @Szabolvs says that eventually it'd be nice. why? I mean, is there some reason?
Maybe not moderated actively by a WRI employee, but maybe they have admin rights to the Google groups page
@acl I don't particularly care for it either. I certainly looked at that page for the first time today, so I assume similar folks wouldn't look on WRI's page for support forums. My only point is that it's cool to have
@R.M I don't know how much it is under their control, but, after following it for a few years, I am sure that no stackexchange site is as closely controlled (by the moderators) as mathgroup seems to be.
Just like it'd be cool if I had an xbox or PS3 and got to play Portal2 and Halo all day, but I don't really care for it and I'm not really going to strive to get them either.
there is for instance the "{maple,matlab}->{other system}" trick, which really does look ridiculous sometimes
@R.M yes, this I can understand
7:13 PM
@acl I said it would be nice because it would draw traffic, and I am hoping that it would draw good traffic as well: more knowledgeable users, perhaps some old timers who didn't come over yet, more people who are willing to answer. But I don't think right now we're ready for the question volume it might bring.
Is anybody able to decipher what this formula means: Q=[B|AB|---|A^(2*n-1).B], where A, B, and Q are compatible matrices? I suspect it is $Q = \left[\vert AB\vert B - A^{2 n -1} B\right]$, but I'm honestly not sure.
@rcollyer Not really, I was looking at it for a while today.
Especially, as there are a lot of matrix norms.
@Szabolcs I figured. My interpretation is at least dimensionally correct for the matrices involved, but I haven't a clue.
This is a simple upgrade of the original ad we made. Any comments?
Works for me. Love the shadow.
7:23 PM
That's Jin's work, I just re-added the text.
I'm aware, but I like the full composition. Very nice.
I'm wondering if a border is necessary, or automatically added by the website. Let me try to check.
Useful cd trick: cd - takes you back to your previous directory.
I didn't know that - useful indeed
Hi. @Szabolcs Excuse my ignorance but where can I see the ad at full size. Look good btw.
7:30 PM
@Szabolcs I didn't either until about a month ago. I've been using pushd primarily for that purpose. And, yes you can use to go back and forth between two directories.
@Matariki That is full size. :)
@Szabolcs nice
@rcollyer OK. Does it appear somewhere on the SE site
Or will it appear at some stage
@Jin I think it needs a 1px border, right? The site doesn't automatically add a border, does it?
@Matariki not yet, but it will soon.
@Szabolcs hm right.
you could just do 1px stroke on the layer style
7:52 PM
Time to write a working prototype to perform _simple_ data analysis in Mathematica: Two days.

Time spent trying to translate it to Haskell: two weeks in the making.
@CHM It's probably worth every single minute
@R.M That's my feeling too. It's the only reason why I keep on pushing. I'd like to be able to just compile MMA code and send it to somebody (not in CDF).
@R.M Which one did you learn first?
@rcollyer it has nothing to do with norms
just a matrix formed by horizontally concatenating {B, AB, A^2B, ...}
@CHM I'm a newbie to Haskell... trying to learn bits of it every now and then
7:58 PM
Can I go with this one?
I do know a bit and can read and understand simple programs but not comfortable enough to write. But then, I don't try hard
@Szabolcs Looks good to me. What will be the background colour surrounding the ad? Do you know?
@Matariki Websites like this one. Light ones.
We might get some resistance because we're now a fully graduated site... might be best to not argue if that's the case
@Szabolcs OK That should work. Apart from the word Mathematica this is the only part that is black. Have you tried a different colour for the frame?
8:01 PM
@R.M I'm just going to change the exiting images in the already posted ads. They already removed the ad from Math.SE for some reason.
Done, all updated.
@R.M Ok. IO is a mess in my head, currently.
8:25 PM
@Szabolcs AFAIK it didn't used to be this way, but WRI provides the server for the mailing list and Steve Christensen is a WRI employee (whether full time or part time, I don't know--perhaps they just pay him for his time moderating). As a result WRI has pretty much full control over MathGroup, though don't appear to intervene too heavily or censor discussions.
@rcollyer my favorites: pushd/popd
2 hours later…
10:30 PM
@Szabolcs I took down the ad temporarily. Thanks to your work, I've restored it. :)
10:59 PM
have people writtein real web apps in mathematica? [besides wolfram alpha]
11:22 PM
Q: New site (small) UI glitch

belisariusAs I have to meet some crazy quality standard, I need to write a nice line here which is obviously a burden for me to write and for you to read.

@term-rewritica Check this out, and more specifically this.
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