The Whiteboard

overexchange

4:00 PM

ok

For permanent residence VISA, they do not check for all this stuff until decmber 2014, we need 67 points

durron597

Highest voted eclipse question that's actually about eclipse: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/197257/…

whatsisname

@MichaelT: not everyone has that as a benefits package.

Robert Harvey

Remember that there's not a one-to-one correspondence with tags and off-topic questions. That's one of the biggest misconceptions of newcomers... that you can ask a question and it will be on-topic just because a tag exists.

durron597

It seems that questions tagged eclipse fall into two categories: crap (off-topic) or questions where the user happens to be using eclipse, but it's not really relevant.

overexchange

@RobertHarvey I actually had to break the cycle of fixing bugs every day and write code for new applications. this is why am doing cs61A and other design tuto.

durron597

4:02 PM

the question I linked 4 messages ago is about the only eclipse question I've found that is both on topic - though it's arguably opinion based - and about eclipse.

Robert Harvey

@overexchange Just make sure you're spending time actually writing code. Learning UML and OO won't matter until you write code.

2

user41796

^^^ So much truth to this

durron597

@RobertHarvey This. In my google interview, there were a few points where I would say something like "i'd make a class for this" or "i'd refactor this" and, without fail, they said "we don't care, please write code now"

overexchange

ok

user55340

It's like being a painter... That is sitting around contemplating the color of the sky. When asked about the canvas replies: I'll get around to that when I understand the color of the sky and clouds.

user55340

4:08 PM

Sure... That's nice and all, but the canvas is the product that the painter is commissioned to do. Not study the sky.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 How'd that interview turn out for ya BTW?

user55340

And it doesn't help one bit when there is a fence to be painted... If that is the job you'll get to pay the bills.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Pretty good I think. My recruiter just told me that my interviewers haven't all submitted their feedback yet, so I won't find out until next week.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 Very cool! Good luck to ya! Gotta ask, did they ask you any mega-crazy algorithmic/mathy questions? Or was it all basically coding stuff?

Rumors tell that they've changed their interview approach in recent times to be more grounded and less "How big is your PhD?"

overexchange

I think you know the feedback process of google. interviewers actually dont decide to pick or drop, the documentation of interview will be sent to a special panel sitting remote, they will decide.

durron597

4:11 PM

@JimmyHoffa How about mega-crazy algorithmic questions where I had to write code to answer them?

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 like what? Did you have to implement quicksort on a whiteboard? :/

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Well there's an NDA associated with the interview process

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 no shit? heh makes sense but interesting

durron597

2 days ago, by durron597

The figgly question was similar but not the same as this project euler q: https://projecteuler.net/problem=15

Jimmy Hoffa

ah, yeah rough. How long did they give you to write solutions generally? Did it feel rushed or did you have like 20 minutes to write out solutions? Was it whiteboard or keyboard? (if any of these would be against the NDA from your understanding, don't answer)

durron597

4:17 PM

@JimmyHoffa 45 minute interviews. I'll answer with stuff that is either in this video or stuff that's a very, very obvious conclusion from the video.

It was all whiteboard

Most of the interviews were easy question into hard question. In other words, I implemented the solution to an easy question within 20 minutes

And then in the second half I attempted to adjust the solution to work for a more difficult problem

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 I find this just dumb. When I was at philips we would have a laptop hooked up to a projector and ask people to code solutions to problems, but they would do it on a keyboard showing that if paid to do the job they could do it as such. Even if it's just notepad you give them, it saves time and takes unnecessary pressure off

durron597

In the same way that you might say "easy: implement 3-5 fizz buzz". "Hard: Now implement fizz buzz where the numbers aren't relatively prime"

except, in my opinion, the questions were a lot cleverer than fizz buzz

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 alright, at least they're patient. I hate impatient interviewers. It's so stupid to ask people to show you they're valuable and then be too impatient to wait for them to present their skills comprehensively.

and lots of people are totally impatient about interviewing; if you don't solve something in 5 minutes they just say pfleh

durron597

well, a few times i wrote a little bit of code and then i made a small mistake or a typo and they corrected it before i even reread what i wrote. that was frustrating.

Jimmy Hoffa

basically, project Euler would be great practice for a google interview

durron597

4:21 PM

@JimmyHoffa even the easy questions couldn't be solved in 5 minutes. well, one of them could be. but the follow up was much more difficult

in that interview, i told the interviewer that his question was really really easy, but i expected the follow-up to be a lot more interesting (and it was)

@JimmyHoffa agreed.

most (all?) of the times i made a small mistake (like using a slightly wrong name for a helper method I had created) I was able to say that an IDE would have caught it for me, and they agreed

user41796

@durron597 That's why we don't offer an IDE or computer - we don't really care about the niggling mistakes like that

Robert Harvey

careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/79061

> Wanna work with a bunch of assholes?
Neither do we.

André

> Help us save the web.

Robert Harvey

Yeah, I don't get that phrase either.

André

That's one herculean task

Aside that "If ain't broke, don't fix it"

Jimmy Hoffa

4:30 PM

@RobertHarvey marketing shop. They want you to execute Digital Transformation on shit into money

durron597

two big differences between this interview and the one three years ago - i knew the java api much better, and i've trained myself to make more helper methods. i was writing these enormous, impossible to follow functions three years ago.

whatsisname

I think its more a consulting firm

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname nah they say outright they're a marketing agency

whatsisname

so they want to transform bugs into more bugs at increased hourly rates

"Engagency is an enterprise digital systems integrator, managed services, and consulting company. In other words, we do web development for large companies"

are we looking at the same thing?

durron597

@GlenH7 when you interview people do you look for that? splitting big algorithm methods into smaller methods?

user41796

4:31 PM

@durron597 Yes, something I look for.

Jimmy Hoffa

> to create digital marketing and commerce experiences that are so responsive, helpful, and relevant [that we will literally take lots of money from people by saying nonsense! Marketing FTW!]

user41796

For in person whiteboard exercises, I have a set of progressively harder questions that build upon the previous question

user55340

Wanted: .NET / C# Developer with a heart of gold

ENGAGENCY

c#asp.net-mvccssjavascript

Wanna work with a bunch of assholes?Neither do we. Good Character = Good Culture @ENGAGENCY culture is not something we…

Posted on Stack Overflow Careers on March 12, 2015

Jimmy Hoffa

> This is not a playground, and you will not be coddled. We’re creating a work environment designed to nourish us, and to continually challenge us to humble ourselves and work towards greater levels of emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and self-actualization.

user41796

So it gives a good opportunity to see how the candidate is thinking

whatsisname

4:32 PM

@JimmyHoffa: I don't see that on what I'm looking at, we must be looking at different pages

user55340

@RobertHarvey https keeps from one boxing.

user41796

@whatsisname last bullet

whatsisname

also 2 weeks off + holidays is not a "great" benefit

user55340

Started with 3 weeks. And 9 holidays per year.

whatsisname

I see the coddling one, but not the marketing FTW one

user55340

4:34 PM

I think it's nine. Might be more.

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname that's because they're all business people making money by working folks to death "not be coddled" = Work work work work! Work! "servants heart" = Servant. "greater levels of emotional intelligence bla bla self-actualization" = We love bullshitting people! We do it all the time! We'll even try to bullshit you! Woohoo bullshit makes us money!

@whatsisname the parts in the [] were my addenda :P

they create marketing websites to sell big companies products

user41796

@JimmyHoffa s/servant/slave/g

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 ...they're not synonyms?

user55340

@GlenH7 civil servant here.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT you're a cop??

user41796

4:36 PM

@MichaelT You're a civil servant, yes. They're looking for slaves.

user41796

And that's the difference between the two

user41796

One can be a humble but fulfilling profession

user41796

The other, well, they make it clear you're merely meat to be thrown into the grinder.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 but did you see all the money that comes out the other end???

user41796

Regrettably, I will no longer have any fingers with which to grasp said money.

user15026

4:38 PM

Woo, one interview down. (this week is interviews and other fascinating bits.)

MetaFight

On Monday I got my "employee appreciation" gift pack. It included a keychain and a giftcard. The gift card is good for £25 at the company store.

I went to the company store and, not surprisingly, most things cost way more than £25. Eventually I found a few mugs I barely wanted and went to the checkout... where it asked me to pay £6 shipping.

So, this "gift" is effectively charging me £6 to buy three mugs I barely want from the company store. The same company that gave me this "gift."

That evening I put the giftcard up for sale on the company intranet. £20 for a £25 gift card. I fig…

user55340

> In a mature society, “civil servant” is semantically equal to “civil master.”

user55340

Lazarus Long (R. Heinlin)

MetaFight

I felt appreciated.

durron597

@MetaFight That's disgusting.

user41796

4:40 PM

@MetaFight Them's the breaks. If there wasn't anything I really wanted from the store, I would have tossed the card in my desk and ignored it until something sparked my eye.

MetaFight

@durron597 yup :)

durron597

What if you buy two mugs? Can you use the gift card to pay for the shipping?

user41796

I can see where they are coming from

user41796

But I can fully empathize with what @MetaFight is saying too

Robert Harvey

Looking for work is an interesting proposition.  You have to balance the time you spend with each potential employer against their relative interest level.  At the beginning of the process, the interest level is zero from both the employer's and employee's perspectives.

To raise that interest level, employers typically lead with a bit about the company and their philosophy and culture, a description of the work and skills required, and sometimes some facts about their compensation and benefits.  Employees typically lead with a resume and cover letter.  Both processes are already problemati…

2

MetaFight

4:41 PM

The giftcard can't be used to cover the shipping costs.

user41796

If they had said "receive 25 off the purchase of whatever you'd like" you would have simply ignored the coupon.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 it's common :/

@durron597 again, businesses make baffling decisions, it just doesn't occur to them that bullshit looks like bullshit

user41796

@RobertHarvey You bothered to write them?!

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Oh, here's how we can get a small amount of extra money and drive traffic to our site!

I bet their margins are high enough that the gift card really only amounts to buying things at cost for most things.

user55340

Employer^^ gave store credit away often. Employer^ gave $25 prepaid visa as gifts.

Robert Harvey

4:43 PM

@GlenH7 I poked them about the "don't be a dick" thing. They responded "Why do you ask?" I haven't sent this --^^ yet.

user41796

Their whole advert screams of "We're idea men!"

user41796

To me, that's a thank-you-very-much for the warning, I'll move along now.

Robert Harvey

Yeah, and the level of hubris in "help us save the Internet..."

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey idea-men don't know what the word hubris means. If they did, they might not be idea-men

user55340

Every good perl programmer knows what hubris means.

Robert Harvey

4:46 PM

lol

user55340

> Excessive pride, the sort of thing Zeus zaps you for. Also the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. Hence, the third great virtue of a programmer. See also laziness and impatience. (p.607)

user55340

From Programming Perl.

Robert Harvey

But you don't have a problem with my verbiage? I'm still practicing "dialing it down" a bit.

overexchange

@RobertHarvey chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/21742724#21742724 looks like you are analysing lot of stuff in your leisure

user41796

@RobertHarvey I didn't review it from that perspective.

MetaFight

4:49 PM

@RobertHarvey I think it's just fine. Out of curiosity, where did you find this job posting?

user41796

Any interaction with that organization is simply wasted time, so worrying about tone is unnecessary.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey you said "heart of gold" which was wrong, they claimed "servant's heart"

which is a disturbing request to be sure

user55340

It matches their advertisement. It either shows you are a match for their philosophy or not. That depends on their recruiter.

Robert Harvey

"Heart of gold" is in the title of the posting.

MetaFight

@RobertHarvey Also, you can think of this as a kind of selection/filtering process. If they read your letter and offer you a meaningful, insightful, and interesting reply, then you've determined more about them and you may find you might actually want to work there. If, on the other hand, they answer like dicks (as their original posting might suggest) you've confirmed conclusively that you can avoid them like you would (presumably) avoid any bag of dicks.

user55340

4:55 PM

Btw, two more 20k speedy deletes on that what language question at -9 and falling.

user41796

@RobertHarvey - did the follow-up note to the re-posted P/A role get a response?

Robert Harvey

@GlenH7 Which one?

user41796

The college / university one. You had applied before, didn't hit their magic filter, the person they hired failed, and they re-posted the job

Robert Harvey

@GlenH7 No. I'll have to reapply.

They reposted the job.

user41796

At least they didn't write back with "No, don't bother."

Robert Harvey

4:58 PM

@overexchange The job search was never a skill that I had to cultivate in depth. I was always able to find work without taking coding tests, doing Skype interviews, answering behavioral interview questions, buying lottery tickets...

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey generational thing; welcome to the new frontier: Everyone must bend a knee to prove their fealty.

durron597

Ooh, a new cv reviewer today. Nice to see reviews by people not in this chatroom

Robert Harvey

@MetaFight I don't know how I found that one. Probably in one of the SO sidebars, or a search.

user15026

Heck for this call center job, i had a hour and a half of behavior questions, a half hour skills test, and if I pass this, there is still another interview before they hire me.

Robert Harvey

Employers seem really cautious nowadays.

Duga

5:10 PM

Design questions should go to Programmers SE in general. — user1803551 just now

user41796

@RobertHarvey There's less slack all around. So mistakes in hiring are harder to recover from.

Duga

For StackOverflow, this question is broad. This is because the question is conceptual. It does not seem to elicit specific programming answers. You did not even specify a programming language. I agree that it would probably be better on Programmers or perhaps CS. — SunSparc 19 secs ago

André

I've heard "Take forever to hire, fire fast"

Seems this is getting traction

durron597

Weeee solved this using pen and paper: projecteuler.net/problem=9

André

Nice @durron597

durron597

5:15 PM

agh, there's a better way to do it using pen and paper than mine

user41796

Is googling for those triplets considered cheating?

André

@durron597, think linear algebra

@GlenH7, in real work? Nope, as study, yeah

durron597

@GlenH7 yes

googling != pen and paper

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Did you brute force it, or is there some equation that solves it?

durron597

@RobertHarvey Well, there are two ways that I've found. Only one uses an equation.

I would not consider either way "brute force".

@André How is linear algebra relevant here?

André

5:29 PM

I think you can treat as linear equation system and solve it. Trying on paper for the fun, will see if is any relevant

:-)

durron597

@André There are three variables and two equations

Robert Harvey

> pass on this guy. I don't like his communication style. if he had a
question about the posting, he could have asked it in a very different way.


Thanks,
Carla

---------------------------------------------
Carla Romaine
VP, Client Services
Engagency

durron597

Also, they aren't linear, they are quadratic. Thus a^2

@RobertHarvey hahahaha

Robert Harvey

> You use "asshole" in a job posting, but you don't like *my* communication style?

Sweet.

André

I think you can extrapolate a third equation like a² = 1000 - b²

user41796

5:32 PM

@RobertHarvey Wait, what? They forwarded you internal email in the response?!

André

Ah, you may have a point, been.. 8 years since I tried anything with linear algebra

user41796

@RobertHarvey And to be fair, you ought to purge the contact info

durron597

@André I think you mean Diophantine equations

Diophantine equation

In mathematics, a Diophantine equation is a polynomial equation, usually in two or more unknowns, such that only the integer solutions are sought or studied (an integer solution is a solution such that all the unknowns take integer values). A linear Diophantine equation is an equation between two sums of monomials of degree zero or one. An exponential Diophantine equation is one in which exponents on terms can be unknowns. Diophantine problems have fewer equations than unknown variables and involve finding integers that work correctly for all equations. In more technical language, they define an...

Robert Harvey

@GlenH7 Apparently so.

These guys would be a bear to work for. Unrealistic expectations, massively inflated egos. Can't take genuine feedback when it's provided to them.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Agreed.

Robert Harvey

5:37 PM

I thought I did.

user41796

Sorry. I blame caching

user41796

I think the rule there is "they're allowed to be funny. You're not."

durron597

@GlenH7 Eh. He wasn't funny there, he was just "right".

André

@durron597, something like that, but I'm not reaching into any solution, scratch that idea away

durron597

@André the two ways to do it are: 1) use the 2mn, n^2 - m^2, n^2 + m^2 generating function, 2) notice that 8 + 15 + 17 = 40, and that 1000/40 is an integer

user41796

5:40 PM

@André If my maths were right, it boils down to: 500 = a + b - (ab/1000)

Robert Harvey

@GlenH7 Well, at least I know for sure. Funny how people make snap judgments, even those in presumably a high-level corporate position who should really know better.

durron597

the first way, it reduces to m(m+n) = 500, then just try stuff and sub for the values, the second, 1000/40 = 25, so the triple is 8*25, 15*25, 17*25

user41796

My maths weren't right - I made a mistake when swapping sides. But I just fixed it.

durron597

@RobertHarvey I actually think that they are correct. It is obvious that you are a poor fit for them; you don't like them, they don't like you. That isn't a value judgement

user41796

@RobertHarvey Quite true. Sometimes it's good to validate the presumptions we make

Robert Harvey

5:44 PM

@durron597 Yes, that's what I meant.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Well, you said they should know better. I think they "know" just fine

user41796

And now we have a new meme:

user41796

@RobertHarvey - I don't like your communication style.

5

Robert Harvey

ROFL

@durron597 Ah, I see what you did there.

durron597

But they are filtering out "competent, no tolerance for bullshit candidates". if it works for them, hey. I'm sure the remaining applicant pool is full of great candidates *snort*

Robert Harvey

5:45 PM

@GlenH7 [Has it engraved, hangs it on my wall]

user41796

Gotta work on those silver linings

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey did you actually get this response back?

that is hilarious if they really sent that to you

Robert Harvey

Yes, I actually got this response back. I don't think it was an accident either.

Seriously, who does that, unless they're so close-minded that they can't take in any outside ideas?

user41796

One of their minions secretly sending you a message of "escape! escape while you can!"

3

durron597

I'm curious what they said in the part you were supposed to read.

Robert Harvey

6:00 PM

The part I was supposed to read?

durron597

@RobertHarvey Presumably they didn't send that bit to you directly, I'm guessing it was a forward with a note "we're sorry but we are not interested in your application at this time?"

Robert Harvey

Maybe that explains why the first sentence is not capitalized.

durron597

@RobertHarvey That was the entire email? there was nothing before that you didn't paste?

enderland

VP of client services making a mistake like that seems... RED FLAG RED FLAG

user41796

@enderland I think it was the VP's ~~servant~~ lackey that made the mistake

durron597

6:04 PM

So Rand Paul is filibustering the Patriot Act extension right now

user55340

@RobertHarvey you could follow up with a yes please on the mse post about voting on careers adverts.

durron597

Anyone mind if I make @Ixrec a room owner?

user41796

Seems ... early.

durron597

@GlenH7 The room owner or the filibuster? ;)

user41796

Where's the anticipation? The hazing? The formally documented process? :-)

user55340

6:05 PM

8

Q: Rating companies on Stack Overflow Careers

Is there a way to rate companies that have posting for positions? I had a situation where a company scheduled a phone interview, but no call. Sent an email, they called back 2 days later to conduct the phone interview. I was told that I passed that stage and I was going to get another call more...

user41796

room owner

durron597

19 hours ago, by Ixrec

you guys keep doing that when I'm looking at other windows =(

SOUNDS LIKE HAZING TO ME

user41796

@durron597 Pfffft.

user41796

And how long were you tortured? :-)

user41796

Or enderland?

user41796

6:06 PM

Email the Careers team with the full details and they will hopefully deal with that company. — Shadow Wizard May 11 at 21:40

user41796

@RobertHarvey ^^^ I see a follow-up option for you.

user55340

@Undo I am under the impression that the interview was during a playoff game while beer was being imbibed rather than the morning after with the disappointment of your team's performance (admit it, they're going to get beat by teams that have no snow on the ground at the rink in December) and the hangover casting a shadow over the cognitive facilities. — MichaelT May 12 at 1:47

durron597

@Ixrec have you submitted your application, signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters yet?

user55340

Canada is not taking the cup home again.

durron597

@MichaelT Pretty sure they haven't won it since 1993. And they're not going to this year.

Robert Harvey

6:11 PM

@GlenH7 I'm not that bothered by it. Seriously, I think they did me a favor.

user55340

It just seems wrong if it ends up California vs Florida.

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Nope. I pasted the whole thing.

user55340

Btw, did you see the SFW California link from last night?

durron597

@MichaelT It's okay, my Rangers are going to take it home in approximately 7 more games.

My tennis game is cancelled I might actually have time to watch it tonight!

user55340

considered obscene in California

Robert Harvey

6:16 PM

Haha, poking fun at California. [ding]

durron597

@MichaelT Do you have a news article?

user55340

@RobertHarvey I lived there for 15 years.

user55340

@durron597 it's a joke.

durron597

@MichaelT That one is still a joke even if it's true :)

user55340

Though you will get heavy fines for watering the lawn in places.

durron597

6:18 PM

@MichaelT ohhhh

@MichaelT Found a news article

user55340

leginfo.ca.gov/pub/15-16/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/… There - a joke.

Duga

Might be better on programmers, since it's not a single question. Or better still on programmers and split into discreet questions. ;^) — ruffin 28 secs ago

durron597

@MichaelT Is that a bill or law?

user55340

Bill. The thing is, some cities fine for water waste and having a brown lawn.

durron597

@MichaelT Astroturf!

Robert Harvey

6:21 PM

@durron597 Zeroscape.

user55340

Paint! usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/05/20/…

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT [sigh]

durron597

@MichaelT How much water is in paint?

user55340

Dunno. Though here is the AstroTurf article: mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/25/us/… (sorry mobile link)

Duga

@ruffin this question is a poor fit for Programmers - it would be quickly voted down and closed over there, see Why do interview questions make poor Programmers.SE questions? Recommended reading: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — gnat 13 secs ago

Robert Harvey

6:29 PM

@MichaelT People vacuuming their lawns in pajamas is a really funny sight.

user55340

@RobertHarvey remember to run major appliances at night.

Robert Harvey

So that explains the pajamas.

psr

@JimmyHoffa - Your analysis of Angular leaves out the economic factors though. If you write a light, loosely coupled app with some focused libraries you only get a couple of low value keywords for your resume. Since Angular is popular and monolithic those projects will be loathe to hire anyone without specific Angular experience, while light easy to maintain projects will be able to hire anyone. Ergo, there is more money from working with Angular.

Ixrec

@psr aka, the COBOL argument

Robert Harvey

@psr Popular, monolithic, and apparently having a significant barrier to entry.

user55340

6:44 PM

Which is why being familiar with it and able to do things can apply a significant filter on resumes.

Robert Harvey

6:56 PM

If my last interview was any indication, they want more than just the keyword. Though that one wasn't for Angular, specifically; it was for WPF.

'Course getting to the interview is the first tricky part.

psr

@RobertHarvey Good point. But working with angular lets you answer interview questions on it. Working on well architected purpose built loosely coupled app doesn't.

Robert Harvey

Ah, I see.

Sweet! westland.net/beachcam

Looks like a nice day at Venice Beach.

durron597

7:12 PM

@psr wouldn't the commit logs also say "fixed bugs introduced by commit foo"

psr

@durron597 Yes it does. But if you divide developer work into "features" and "imaginary developer things collectively known as 'not features'", that doesn't matter.

durron597

@psr I was with you until this... doesn't everyone know what bugs are and what fixing them means?

Ixrec

features, bugs, and imaginary developer things sounds about right though

Duga

Do you actually have code? If not this is likely a programmers question. — EBrown 42 secs ago

durron597

Sure. In my experience, though, the more likely thing is that one particular person is just better at smiling, using buzzwords, and buying alcohol

Ixrec

7:22 PM

interesting, the mouseover highlighting reveals what your removed message was a reply to even after it's been removed

Duga

@EBrown It might be more on-topic at Programmers.SE, but it's also too broad to be well-received there. — Ixrec 45 secs ago

psr

@Ixrec Someone is snooping on my metadata!!?

Ixrec

oh wow, refreshing the room doesn't get rid of it

durron597

@psr yes

durron597

7:35 PM

Rand Paul just talked in his filibuster about how a "NSA may not snoop" amendment passed the house 293-123, but was removed when they went into conference to create the cromnibus bill

How disgusting is that? The house says with a veto proof majority "we don't want to allow NSA snooping", and then it just gets taken out in conference after having passed.

whatsisname

that's america

André

that's everywhere imho.

user55340

The higher ups in the party don't necessarily agree with the people not in the committee.

durron597

@MichaelT I know how it happens, it just makes me sick

user55340

Sure the populist part of the party has the majority. The power still remains, for the most part, in the establishment.

user55340

7:40 PM

The populist part... Well, they have yet to show they can govern or compromise. Until they do, this is likely the norm.

durron597

@MichaelT Among the noes: Kevin McCarthy, Eric Cantor, Debbie Wasserman Schultz. John Boehner is not on the roll for some reason.

I support any bill that both Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Kevin McCarthy vote against.

Robert Harvey

> 5+ years of experience with ASP.NET, Visual Studio 2010/2012 & TFS

So, I guess since the moment VS2010 came out.

André

No, you helped build the VS2010, that is what it means.

Robert Harvey

Ah, I knew there was a trick there.

user41796

8:00 PM

@RobertHarvey I read that as 5 with asp.net

user41796

so no time expectations on VS or TFS, but yes with asp.net

user55340

It's a trick! They are building a new ide and want to hire the dev team for vs2010.

user41796

I think I spent more time on this answer than it probably deserved

André

Know the feeling

user41796

At least I didn't have to worry about FGITW on that one...

user41796

8:15 PM

Was actually more worried about it getting closed off instead

André

I spent 3 hours writing a answer and troubleshooting some guy problem, apparently he gave up when I told him he needed to debug the application

user41796

ouch

enderland

mapbox.com/labs/twitter-gnip/brands

Ixrec

and people wonder why we don't like helping people debug code dumps

André

The question started as "how I use X API"

then he had some spring configuration problem

cool @enderland

user55340

8:23 PM

@GlenH7 if you get the closed question, open the Dom and re enable the submit button.

user41796

@MichaelT really?!

enderland

thanks @GlenH7

user41796

@enderland np

durron597

@enderland Wait a minute, are you trying to say there's basically no one on twitter in Montana? Say it ain't so!

user55340

62

Q: How was this answer posted after this question was closed?

Question: lot of .exe folders are created on my windows7 Answer: try that... The question was closed at 11:57:57 (according to the hover-over-"x-mins-ago" bar) and the answer was posted at 12:16:35. It's a fairly lengthy answer, so it's possible that it was started to be written before it was c...

bug status-bydesign answers closed-questions

user41796

8:25 PM

@MichaelT Cool. That's an interesting bit of trivia I didn't know about

André

cool, I hated when that happen

enderland

also interesting location to look at - mapbox.com/labs/twitter-gnip/brands/#14/47.6720/-482.1031

user55340

Three most recent posts... Sigh.

user41796

@enderland I see a lot of green and red there. Not a whole lot of purple...

enderland

;)

HarryCBurn

8:32 PM

Hallo! :)

Ola.

hi

How is everyone? :)

元気です！

あなたわ？

Ixrec

みんな元気です！

Robert Harvey

8:33 PM

3 hours ago, by GlenH7

@RobertHarvey - I don't like your communication style.

André

@Ixrec 日本語がわかりますか？

Ixrec

pretty good, just the usual complaints about how business/hiring/politics works

user41796

@MichaelT 0 votes remaining

André

ha @RobertHarvey

HarryCBurn

@RobertHarvey Rather I used graphs instead? Heat maps? Brainf*ck? ;p

Robert Harvey

8:34 PM

You'll be here all week, I presume?

Ixrec

@André I translate in my spare time, so yeah a fair bit

HarryCBurn

@RobertHarvey Me? Psh, they'll want me for longer ;)

André

Cool, I just study here and there :)

Ixrec

I'm actually (very slowly) translating next to this chat right now

HarryCBurn

@RobertHarvey How about by poem?

Ixrec

8:36 PM

@RobertHarvey by the way, what was your "communication style"? I think it happened too far up the backlog for me to see it

(I did see the email with that line in it)

durron597

4 hours ago, by Robert Harvey

Looking for work is an interesting proposition.  You have to balance the time you spend with each potential employer against their relative interest level.  At the beginning of the process, the interest level is zero from both the employer's and employee's perspectives.

To raise that interest level, employers typically lead with a bit about the company and their philosophy and culture, a description of the work and skills required, and sometimes some facts about their compensation and benefits.  Employees typically lead with a resume and cover letter.  Both processes are already problemati…

Robert Harvey

To be fair, my original inquiry was a bit provocative:

> It has a cute headline and an interesting premise, but your job description doesn't say much about the skills you're looking for, or the work you need. Do you just want someone who's not a dick?

Ixrec

that would explain the response

durron597

@RobertHarvey Well, while that note certainly earned you an immediate response, if you actually wanted the job you probably should have said "could you give me more information please?" instead of that last sentence.

But the question of you wanting the job is well treaded ground

Robert Harvey

@Ixrec Well, c'mon. Company that lacks any sense of humor whatsoever tries humor in their job posting?

Their first response was "Why do you ask?"

Ixrec

8:42 PM

I'm still amazed at how many job postings I saw with broken English, dozens of typos and no description whatsoever of the actual job...so failed humor is pretty minor

Robert Harvey

And I thought my second response was pretty well-reasoned. Their VP's response, on the other hand, was knee-jerk (with an emphasis on jerk).

durron597

7

Q: Are flags for "immediate" problems or just problems?

A moderator of a graduated site (but not Stack Overflow) told me in chat today (I am making a cursory attempt at anonymity, but it shouldn't be hard to figure out who it was for the determined): But don't forget what flags are for. They are for things that must be handled immediately. ......

discussion flags moderators

Obviously JasonC isn't staff or even a diamond anywhere, but it's something to consider.

gnat

@Yannis, regarding that "spam" flag, I think now that you mentioned that there was no decline I have another idea of how it went. I saw that UI doesn't let me use spam flag and I assumed it means prior flag was declined. But actually, I probably cast VLQ or NAA which was shaken off by post edit. System automatically dismissed my flag (as helpful), which also blocked spam flags

18

Q: Edits shouldn't dismiss "not an answer" flags

It seems like this shouldn't be able to happen: Three people flagged a post as "not an answer", but then another user cleaned up the post's formatting, and all the flags got dismissed without anybody actually looking at them. It took weeks for somebody else to flag the post for the fourth time...

feature-request flags moderator-tools

Yannis

8:59 PM

@gnat Hm, the thing is that your flag doesn't show Community as the deletion user, it's just empty. However, the flag is old, so it might just be that they started showing Community as the deletion user at a later point.

user55340

What did I... oh... yay, it wasn't me this time! ;P — Yannis 5 mins ago

durron597

Ugh this user interface really needs to handle starred autoboxes better

Duga

you should make this question in Programmers — dlavila 57 secs ago

Robert Harvey

Users who can't compose sentences shouldn't be making site recommendations.

Ixrec

Duga is a lifesaver

Duga

9:12 PM

@dlavila if it was made on Programmers, it would be closed as a duplicate of this question — durron597 53 secs ago

user55340

Two more c# answers and I'll get a tag badge in a language I've never touched.

gnat

@Yannis those were vegetarian times. No roomba turbocharge, no LQ queue. Auto-deletions happened too rarely to bother. As far as I understand, they started attributing things to Community user only since Dec 2012...

3

A: Making auto delete process more user friendly

This was fixed by Kevin Montrose on December 3rd, 2012. Since that time, post history records, visible in each auto-deleted post's revision history, have been created to document the time of deletion and correctly attribute it to the Community user. Nick Craver added reasons to these history ent...

Ixrec

@gnat which roomba upgrade is the "turbocharge"?

gnat

98

Q: Turbocharging the Roomba: solutions for premature deletion

A couple weeks ago, I asked for help: How can we stop premature deletion? And I got some fantastic responses. A big thanks to everyone who participated in that discussion - you're the reason I don't completely hate Meta Stack Overflow. The big takeaways from that discussion were: Show users t...

discussion deleted-questions auto-delete deletion

^^^ April 2013 "Automatically delete closed and abandoned questions after a short period of time..."

cross-posted, deservedly voted down to -10 and closed at SO: stackoverflow.com/questions/30334250/… — gnat 44 secs ago

^^^ shame on us, it's only -3 over here

Ixrec

I wasn't watching the front page; -4 now

speaking of downvoting, iirc -4 is the cutoff for disappearing from the front page, which is why I usually only downvote if it's not at -4 yet and (like that one) I think it needs to go away before the close votes can be gathered; are there any other important downvote threshholds?

user55340

9:29 PM

-3 for closed question. Speedy delete votes for 20k

gnat

@Ixrec nope, no thresholds. Except that it impacts question warnings / blocks

but that's more... gradual

one can't be blocked with a single question, no matter how low a score. Two very low score questions probably can do this - and definitely should at least trigger warning

user55340

Anecdotal is three closed and down voted questions. I haven't seen poor askers on a tear stop at 2.

MetaFight

@durron597 lol, I was working through Project Euler a couple of summers ago. I just looked up what my answer was to that question:

// note:  I worked this one out in my head and then used google as a calculator.
// essentially, you want the number of combinations when choosing 20 from 40
this.Result = 137846528820;

durron597

@MetaFight which question?

MetaFight

projecteuler.net/problem=15

the figgly one

user55340

9:36 PM

That's a fun one I did in dc.

MetaFight

I don't remember how long it took me. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing I would have gotten right away.

enderland

@RobertHarvey to be fair that strikes me as a very non-native English mistake

user55340

Aug 4 '13 at 0:56, by MichaelT

Solving Project Euer #15 for a 4x4 grid (rather than 20x20 grid) with dc: [d1-d1<F*]dsF8lFx4lFxd*/p

user55340

Further down in the transcript there I explain it.

MetaFight

what's dc?

durron597

9:40 PM

@MetaFight That actually isn't the question I was being asked.

MetaFight

@enderland indeed, he/she is Chilean.

user55340

Dc (computer program)

dc is a cross-platform reverse-polish desk calculator which supports arbitrary-precision arithmetic. It is one of the oldest Unix utilities, predating even the invention of the C programming language; like other utilities of that vintage, it has a powerful set of features but an extremely terse syntax. Traditionally, the more user-friendly (with its infix notation) bc calculator program was implemented on top of dc, although more modern implementations are related in the opposite fashion: dc uses bc's library for arithmetic. This article provides some examples in an attempt to give a general flavour...

MetaFight

@durron597 No, of course it isn't wink wink

@MichaelT I've got a colleague who would LOVE this.

user55340

When you dig into dc a little, it is quite beautiful.

durron597

Imagine you have a bag of balls labeled 1 to 40. You pull out 20 of them; you turn right at the balls you have, and go down at the ones you do not

How many ways are there to take the balls out of the bag?

In other words, because it will always be 40 steps to the bottom right corner

user55340

9:43 PM

shagie.net/2014/06/03/fun-with-dc1-counting-zeros-in-factorials

Wanted: .NET / C# Developer with a heart of gold

Transcript for