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12:00 AM
@DougSmythies Thank you Doug... but it's the default dialog box that comes with Ubuntu. I didn't don anything special... Coding is almost there but it seems like the last 5% always takes 50% of the time :p
disregard my ramblings, my brain isnt braining properly today
I wish I was as talented as Serg... I'm stuck in array land of confusion.
@Serg is it brianing?
They said it might be braining here today but there was only snow :(
@Zacharee1 it is derping, that is for sure
@WinEunuuchs2Unix aw, gee....thanks :)
protip to pingbot creators: if a port is blocked, i won't unblock it for you. just remove it from your list.
anyone have any interactions recently with the SU mod candidates? I haven't been over there recently, and they are in election cycle
Quick question: for select in $selections ; do isn't working because selections are separated by new line character and not arguments or whatever. Do I have to issue IFS="\n" to make the loop loop?
12:07 AM
havent been on SU in ages
@WinEunuuchs2Unix .split.('\n'), but that's python not bash
@RobotHumans looks like a lot of bad candidates
@WinEunuuchs2Unix Quote all the things. And what is $selections? A string or an array?
@WinEunuuchs2Unix echo the quoted selection variable and pipe into while IFS= read -r loopvar ;do ... done
i am on phone, so cannot explain.in more detail
12:09 AM
Wait, that depends on what the variable is.
$ echo "$selections"
$ for i in $selections ; do echo "i: $i"; done
i: 1
i: 2
i: 3
@terdon $selections is a throw back from text based dialog function in linux. You get an --itemlist and it returns "1 4 5 6" but they are separated by new line characters and not spaces or whatever.
@WinEunuuchs2Unix So like what I show above? Are you getting it from something like selections=$(seq 1 3)?
@WinEunuuchs2Unix that should.be.ok
Ah, throwback, I see.
12:11 AM
hehe well I started bash learning zenity.
I might be able to combine these vector paths...
If it's actually separated by newline characters, the simple for should work.
If it doesn't there's something else going on. What happens if you actually loop over it? Does it print everything as a single field?
Yeah the select in $selections dumps everything all in the first iteration of the loop.
Also, and despite my previous knee jerk reaction, this is one of the few cases where you shouldn't quote. You actually want the variable to be expanded there.
lol@knee jerk.
12:13 AM
@WinEunuuchs2Unix I was debating whether to write that as knee jerk :P
Anyway, could you print the contents and show them here? Ideally, run this:
printf '%s' "$selections"
And then this:
I read minds as a hobby :p
printf '%s' "$selections" | od -c
@WinEunuuchs2Unix what am i thinking of?
@KazWolfe Bacon. You're easy.
how to hide your taxable income
12:14 AM
@terdon Actually, I don't really like bacon all that much. It's usually too salty.
Foiled by my preconceptions again.
@WinEunuuchs2Unix i wish.
but no, that was not what i was thinking of.
I'm no closer to grasping how to make the do loop work :(
I mean for loop
foiled by my aluminum foil
or was it tin ? we shall never know
12:16 AM
aluminum foil is a brain amplifier, you need the tinfoil that contains lead.
@WinEunuuchs2Unix Could you show me the output of the commands I asked for?
lead by whom ?
just a second let me copy commands into program.
@seth so how does it feel to become an Ubuntu member finally ?
@WinEunuuchs2Unix Just have your program write $selections into a file and then run od -c on the file.
12:18 AM
@Serg I've been an ubuntu member since Nov '15 :P
Their certificate sending system was just broken until recently.
Wat! Didn't you endorse him @Serg?
OK I selected --itemlist options 1, 3 and 5 and this is the output:
0000000   1  \n   3  \n   5
select: 1
But it feels good regardless when it happens :)
@terdon i didnt know he applied
And this is the code:
printf '%s' "$selections" | od -c

for select in $selections ; do
    echo "select: $select"
    echo "item_list entry: ${item_list[$select]}"
    choices[i]=$(echo ${item_list[$select]} | cut -f1 -d"!")
12:19 AM
Oct 30 '15 at 1:35, by Seth
I will be applying for Ubuntu membership Nov. 5. If you have testimonials about me I would appreciate it if you could leave them on my wiki page. Thanks!
well now i just feel bad lol
Might have been just before Serg became active?
@WinEunuuchs2Unix Is that the exact output? The select: 1 etc is after the last 0000005?
@Serg naw, no reason to feel bad :)
Sorry I missed the window @Seth. Generally anyone that can tolerate me is probably nice enough to deserve membership, and if they're talking to me consistently, probably savvy enough or contributing enough that they should be XD
12:20 AM
i shall go into exile as self bunishment and shall only write in perl .... or c.....
check out quantopian. it's a fun possibly profitable python game ;)
@terdon Yeah but the "select: 1 \nl 3 \nl 5 \nl" are within the for loop which only executes once.
Ah! Gotcha
OK, no, that doesn't make any sense. That should work. Have you reset IFS anywhere or something like that?
Oh yes lots of IFS resetting... copy and pasting other peoples code.
but I have variable OLDIFS
So do IFS=$OLDIFS first?
@RobotHumans Thanks! No worries. Glad to see you around :)
12:23 AM
$ selections=$(printf '1\n3\n5')
$ for select in $selections ; do echo "select: $select"; done
select: 1
select: 3
select: 5
@WinEunuuchs2Unix Yes. Not entirely sure why you've set it to anything else, but yes. Reset it to the normal original.
Next time, instead of IFS=foo; command just run IFS=foo command. That will change IFS only for this command and won't affect the rest of your script.
@terdon EUREKA!
Thanks a lot :)
Here's what I meant before, by the way:
foo="baz" echo "temp $foo"
echo "orig $foo"
That prints:
$ foo.sh
temp bar
orig bar
also, just to remind everyone... If you don't have your IPv6 certification from HE, go get it! It takes an afternoon or so, and you get a free shirt and bragging rights.
(Plus IPv6 is cool)
@terdon where is baz
@Serg foo="baz" echo "temp $foo"
12:26 AM
@KazWolfe more details plz. who are these people, why should I trust them?
@Seth Hurricane Electric is one of the big ISPs around. They do a lot of colo and such.
(I'm not affiliated, but I do like them a lot)
@terdon oh, wait.....variable substitution occurs first, duh
Hurricane Electric is a global Internet service provider offering IPv4 and IPv6 services, as well as data center in San Jose, California and in Fremont, California, where the company is based. == IPv6 == Hurricane Electric operates the largest Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) transit network globally, as measured by the count of interconnections to other networks (peering). The majority of these adjacencies are native IPv6 BGP sessions. This may be determined with Hurricane Electric's BGP looking glass at http://lg.he.net. Hurricane Electric offers an IPv6 tunnel broker service, providing free...
@Serg Oh, no, hang on! I'm completely wrong, aren't I?
hm. they need to know my address, phone number, full name..
12:28 AM
@terdon almost, output is right, script is wrong
@Serg No, both are wrong. I mean, the output is wrong because the script is wrong.
BREAKING: We've got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC. (Seriously).
A: What is this Bash syntax: someVariable=someValue command

SergThere are a few key things that happen here: As explained in bash reference manual, Simple Command Expansion, section "If no command name results, the variable assignments affect the current shell environment. Otherwise, the variables are added to the environment of the executed command and do ...

@Serg Argh! Yes, of course. Thanks.
12:31 AM
@KazWolfe Not really. I'm sure hacking the IRS isn't nearly as hard as they want you to believe.
return of the tax jedi ?
@Seth No, it's impossible because they don't exist.
@KazWolfe Oh that's an interesting view point. Why do you say that?
@Seth Memes.
12:33 AM
foo="baz" perl -le 'print "temp $ENV{foo}"'
echo "orig $foo"

$ foo.sh
temp baz
orig bar
i would rather have proper president than Trump's tax returns
@Serg proper defined how? He got elected.
smh. I like that things are shaking up. It's interesting to see a president, however machete like the method, follow through on campaign promises.
@Seth no denying that, he got elected. I am referring to his behavior and policies
That doesn't make him not a "proper president". It does make him less presidential.
12:37 AM
I just want my net neutrality.
@RobotHumans That is.. nice, for once. But now we get both the good and bad campaign promises :S
@Seth ok, better phrasing.
That is also true, but genuine bad promises are better than disingenuous good promises.
@RobotHumans true
I just wish the Democrats would get smart and stop raking up useless muck and actually focus on the real bad stuff.
@KazWolfe but they send you a T-shirt eh?
I like t-shirts.
@Seth they do.
12:40 AM
cant we have genuine good promises ? why do we have to settle for better of two evils ?
that's an old picture
@Serg well, who did you vote for?
it's an old shirt.
still hasn't changed, lol.
Still a really cool shirt!
@Seth nope , didnt vote at all, because neither of candidates is what i like
@Serg it's a process. it'll get there. not all of the promises were bad. honestly, i'm hoping for 2 terms, so candidates don't fear re-election problems based on being genuine.
12:41 AM
@Seth If you're worried about trust for this company, these people are the people who do all of that free IPv6 tunneling through tunnelbroker.net
@KazWolfe never heard of it, but it seems ok.
in other news, interviewing with a local startup on thursday.
@Serg well that's better than most.
okay, to be fair, this is why i'm panicking w/ trump: eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/…
who knows what he's going to bring in the same pipeline of SOPA/PIPA
fair enough. unilateral harsh decisions are both unilateral and harsh.
12:47 AM
@KazWolfe you weren't panicking with Obama trying to pass TPP?
Which does many of the same things?
@Seth I was.
I panic whenever any idiot in power attempts to kill the internet.
@KazWolfe There's an error.
It's "teredo", not "terado".
Now who knows their IPv6 :P
nice catch @NathanOsman
12:48 AM
Thanks :)
still, if the us govt decides to ban RSA and encryption/demand keys from CAs/whatever to "protect the country", there's going to be hell.
There sure is.
and a lot of people are going to bring up new secure networks all tunneling out of the US
the beauty of the internet is that there will always be an independent chain of trust. and they can't ban RSA/asymmetric crypto blanket wise. it's just if people will use it anyway, and if felony movie viewing is any indication, people don't really care.
@KazWolfe That's gonna drive up costs for traffic all over the board.
12:51 AM
@RobotHumans they can demand keys be given up.
@KazWolfe so I did it.. I think?
@KazWolfe Let's see them make me?
(I don't live in the US, lol.)
@NathanOsman No, not your keys. Your CA's keys.
Time to rethink SSL/TLS?
@KazWolfe Wait. Those are just used for signing certs.
They don't actively participate in session encryption.
12:52 AM
ah, I see.
with asymmetric, it doesn't matter if you give up the provider side stuff, and there's already "compulsion" to give up your personal keys. they won't break https. if they did, the adverse business effects would be too extreme
@KazWolfe Ah.
Honestly, I think the tech companies are just a bit too big to let that happen.
Remember Apple and that locked iPhone?
They didn't budge an inch.
"If you don't give us your keys, no traffic to/from your company may be transmitted in/through the US."
12:53 AM
Now you get Google and a few other companies on board and it looks pretty bleak for the opposition.
@KazWolfe Let's see them tell that to Google.
china did it, and there are still bridge nodes around the gfw of china... just saying
"Give us your keys or you lose all of the US as a market. Your choice."
I bet that will single-handedly bring down half the Internet.
Consumers will revolt and it will end as quickly as it started.
@NathanOsman Oh, so you support terrorists? And pedophiles? And human traffickers? And drug dealers? And <insert hated group here>?
It's more likely they'll request a wildcard certificate for the whole of the internet instead. It would be simpler
12:55 AM
@KazWolfe yes.
@KazWolfe ಠ_ಠ
One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist.
@RobotHumans How will that work with HSTS?
By your definition the Revolutionary war was started by terrorists.
Ohh, you're coming from the gov's perspective.
@KazWolfe Of course I don't support any of that. But the solution is not to trash everyone else's rights.
12:56 AM
@NathanOsman So then you do support it!
If you don't support us, you support them!
Sounds like it's time to shoot whatever governement Kaz is representing.
Le facepalm.
In theory, a wildcard signing cert could still sidestep HSTS @NathanOsman
12:56 AM
@Seth Please.
This isn't even satire anymore.
@RobotHumans What would inhibit the browser from throwing a warning when the certificate hashes don't match?
@KazWolfe I know. There is no level of stupidity at that range though, that is pure tyranny.
@NathanOsman Mandatory IE6 for "security"
Like South Korea and their Active-X controls.
@NathanOsman logic loop. does the cert match who we expect to get it from? false root cert with wildcard access would mean the cert issuer can tell you where to validate as long as it's in a built in chain of trust
Let me be clear once again since I seem to have been misunderstood. I don't support terrorism or any of the other behavior Kaz described. HOWEVER, there is a proper way to combat those things and stripping away freedom is not it.
12:59 AM
@NathanOsman I read you loud and clear. This is the logic these people use.
@RobotHumans Oh my goodness. My mind has been blown. We seriously do have a problem there.
"You don't support us, you're with the enemy!"
\o/ PGP FTW! \o/
@KazWolfe aka tyranny.
@Seth basically.
1:00 AM
@NathanOsman Yep. That was my angle from the beginning.
Y'know that XKCD with the tar command?
I feel like that every time I use PGP.
But it's not like that technique hasn't been used by the US government in the past.
How come nobody has brought up any conspiracy theories about the government possessing a quantum computer, allowing them to quickly factorize private keys and break RSA? :D
Puts on tinfoil hat.
@NathanOsman conspiracy theorists usually aren't that smart.
Takes off hat.
1:02 AM
No correlation in GPU manufacturer stock holdings and government held shell companies owning said stock holdings. Easier to just slip a wildcard cert in the chain somewhere. Path of least resistance.
I mean, Shor's Algorithm is a thing...
@RobotHumans is such a thing as a global wildcard even possible, really?
I don't see why it wouldn't be.
I would assume that a global MITM with a stolen trusted CA root would be easier.
@RobotHumans Well, same reason *.example.com doesn't cover hello.world.example.com
Trusted root cert would be easy too.
Hey, that's a good point @Kaz...
Would a global wildcard cert cause an error since it is outside of spec?
1:05 AM
> Matching is performed using the matching rules specified by
> [RFC2459]. If more than one identity of a given type is present in
> the certificate (e.g., more than one dNSName name, a match in any one
> of the set is considered acceptable.) Names may contain the wildcard
> character * which is considered to match any single domain name
> component or component fragment. E.g., *.a.com matches foo.a.com but
> not bar.foo.a.com. f*.com matches foo.com but not bar.com.
Who knows. A * cert would be an interesting thing to play with would it not? *.*.* would get you most everything
It would only match com., org., ca., edu. etc... Only TLDs.
This could probably be tested locally...
As long as things are RFC-2818 compliant, a global wildcard won't work.
@KazWolfe Then again, a cert each for four or five of those would cover 98% of the Internet anyway.
1:06 AM
@NathanOsman then what do you do when people start doing
LOL. Good point.
or p.r.i.v.a.t.e.s.e.c.u.r.e.i.n.t.e.r.n.e.t.p.r.o.x.y.somesite.com
i don't think interesting people will be doing that. 95% penetration with a much lower cost. just saying
^--- also true
@RobotHumans until $bigshot starts using one of these long-subdomain proxy services
1:08 AM
Or SwiftOnSecurity mentions it...
or vsauce or someone
then we'ld see a mandated limit and a set max depth and one cert again. so, still easy.
or the NSA reads this chatlog.
1:09 AM
@RobotHumans mandated limit as defined by who?
and we're back to state institutions.
Problem there is then CAs out-of-country can say "lol k, we'll do that for you"
If the NSA is reading this, "Hi! Welcome! We're totally not talking about how to avoid your eavesdropping."
so you'd have to MITM the Internet and drop any "illegal subdomains".
pffft. it's funny that people still talk about the NSA after the CIA disclosures. just say "them" as a blanket term
1:10 AM
At which point, the government is already MITMing things, so just a compromised trusted root CA. Nice and easy.
Grab them from all the big US CAs, and you get past HSTS too.
Once we get this far down the rabbit hole, it becomes easier for me to create my own CA and manage it all myself.
why do .mil sites use their own CAs? rhetorical question
Let's not forget that other protocols use TLS.
1:12 AM
@NathanOsman then the government comes knocking on your door demanding you turn over your keys, or any site you sign will be unaccessible from the US
@RobotHumans governments don't trust people.
that includes CA hosts, they can just do it themselves for the most part.
@KazWolfe Pshhh. Fine. If the US wants to get at my sites, they need to start by fixing their spy agency.
@KazWolfe so I need a website to do this?
I read that more as "threat was evaluated and found to be very real. If we believe they can do it, we're already doing it", but that's just me
@Seth I don't think so.
1:13 AM
oh, yeah, i forgot about that.
@Seth Oh, and I even have IPv6 connectivity here at home.
just spin up a digitalocean server or something for 5 minutes
Linode is where it's at these days.
you can get a .tk or something
Their $5 servers have 1 GB of RAM now.
Which reminds me, I should probably move a couple servers there.
1:15 AM
@KazWolfe sigh. That's gonna be more work than I have time for right now.
Although I'd trade the extra RAM for more storage if I could.
@Seth no time limit, i did mine over a week or something
@Seth Do you have an account there?
@NathanOsman DO? I think so.. I have $50 in credit too, I think. Somewhere..
It takes all of 60 seconds to spin up a server.
1:19 AM
gosh, ill.never be.a proper.student
@NathanOsman Do I have to add a credit card? Ugh.
Oh hmm... I guess so.
I seriously should be doing homework.. but TSHIRT
@NathanOsman hmm, maybe I can spin up a free tier AWS micro instance.
That would work too.
You also get a subdomain that points to the instance.
Ugh. AWS requires a credit card too.
I really don't want to add one.. I can't afford unexpected charges.
1:34 AM
I can spin one up for you for a couple hours on DO.
Would that work?
Probably. Still checking.
Just let me know. I can even activate a subdomain for you.
they're using jquery UI xD
> The Domain you provide below will be used in future DNS tests.
seems like it'll have to stay up. Can't afford that right now :/
I can keep a subdomain for you and it can be reassigned...
@NathanOsman that's nice of you, but it feels silly just for a tshirt.
1:41 AM
Well, let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
Also: if you want really cheap servers, Scaleway has the lowest prices of anywhere.
I should probably just get a cheap prepaid credit card and add that. I've been meaning to play around with AWS, just haven't had the time.
The have dedicated ARM servers with 2 GB of RAM and quad-core CPUs for €2.99.
Holy cow did I ever miss a lot when programming. Like 100 messages on terrorism ^^^
1:43 AM
@WinEunuuchs2Unix ...and you-know-who's tax returns.
@NathanOsman wow that's cheap
I missed tax returns.... sort of scrolled down very quicklyu
cheap tax returns... must be talking about me :p
The good thing is my taxes are cheap... the bad thing is my income is low :D
@Seth For the same price, you can get an x86 server with two cores, 2 GB of RAM, and unmetered 200 Mbps connections. Their prices are crazy low :D
@DougSmythies Just to let you know rm-kernels-server is finished coding but I'm too burnt out to post the documentation tonight so I'll update the Q&A's tomorrow after work.

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