The Factory Floor

8:00 PM

@dot_Sp0T Not hard to invent a bioactive molecule that stores tons of sulphur then releases it when burned or the surrounding proteins decay.

dot_Sp0T

@James I didn't think that far, but the possibility exists it seems. Now we only need an elevator

@Green I'd rather have something existing than applying phlebotinum tho :/

Green

@dot_Sp0T fair enough.

dot_Sp0T

Will probably make it another Sandbox Q to get it separated from the topo Q

stay tuned while I type and walk

on a surface pro

(not the laptop)

Green

@dot_Sp0T E1 still has a stream that runs uphill.

dot_Sp0T

No?

Green

8:04 PM

Wait. Sorry. It's fine.

dot_Sp0T

Numbers are shitty

Mephistopheles

What swear words are allowed?

Green

There's a number of places where the streams run parallel to the contour lines. I'd believe that for shallow slopes but on steeper slopes, not as much.

K4 and K5

dot_Sp0T

@Green i guess these r fine. Lines can be moved when clean drawing

@Mephistopheles none basically, i personally try not to do any name-calling or using degrading language

James

@dot_Sp0T uh...

dot_Sp0T

8:09 PM

@James try

James

lol ok...well played.

Mephistopheles

@dot_Sp0T What swear words are allowed?

dot_Sp0T

Spiel, Satz und Sieg

@Mephistopheles there is no definite list of allowed words to my knowledge

Though in this chat I think your mostly fine if you quote Monthy Python to some extent

Mephistopheles

Man falls down stairs meme

►

dot_Sp0T

The key is moderation

Also probably no unsolicited memes

2

Green

8:13 PM

@dot_Sp0T I think you'd have far more streams leading into the north west shore of the lake. That shore is almost 1.2km long.

James

Profanity isn't outright banned in this room, but is generally avoided. I drop something on occasion myself. Know your audience, don't direct it at people, don't overdo it and its fine. I or someone else will correct you if you step out of line.

2

Mephistopheles

@dot_Sp0T Star Wars prequel quotes are okay?

AndyD273

@Mephistopheles Probably depends on the context. If you just start quoting the movie line by line you'd probably get kicked

Mephistopheles

@AndyD273 That's outrageous! That's unfair!

AndyD273

But a line in context with the conversation is probably fine. People don't come here to read a novel.

Mephistopheles

8:16 PM

@AndyD273 Also, they usually do that with the Bee movie

AndyD273

@Mephistopheles That would actually be worse, yes

2

AngelPray

Is anyone here knowledgeable on civics? I have a couple questions on the subject from a worldbuilding perspective but I feel like they're too dumb and minor for me to want to create a post on the site.

dot_Sp0T

@AngelPray shoot and maybe somebody can help; otherwise push it onto the sandbox (maybe we can bolster them up and make em bigger and mor important)

(making mountains out of molehills is a specialty of this stack)

Mephistopheles

@AngelPray What are the questions?

dot_Sp0T

@Green how many streams per 400m square do you think I should have? Do you think it will reduce the drag on the question once posted and allow people to judge topology itself more aggressively?

@Green also, yes please. I want to have the saddle as you imagine it (we'll call it 'The Green Saddle' internally and eventually translate it into North-Speech)

AngelPray

8:24 PM

Right, so in my world, I have colonial empires. Comparable to the ones that existed in the real world. Now let's say by some miracle all the people in one of these empires is given the right to vote for the democratic ruler of the empire. How exactly would that work from a civics perspective? Since the people outside of the mainland outnumber those within it wouldn't you just end up with presidents/prime ministers/whatevers who only focus on the overseas territories?

I feel like the answer is just going to be "yes, that's what being a minority is about."

dot_Sp0T

@AngelPray it really depends on how you divide votes. You could for example have a 'fake' democracy by either a) allowing only the people in the motherland, and/or service members to vote, or b) by distributing votes unevenly by using an electorate system like the Greatest Country on the World has - totally not fair by definition

AndyD273

@AngelPray The US solved this problem with the electoral collage, so that even states with a small number of citizens can get a say. Otherwise candidates would only focus on New York City, Chicago, and LA.

Green

@dot_Sp0T it'll take a little while but definitely this evening.

Mike Nichols

@AngelPray You need to elaborate on how the Republic actually works. Who has the right to vote? Are they voting for electors or for the leader themselves? Is it a pure popular vote or is there something akin to an electoral college?

dot_Sp0T

@Green it's 2230 here, I'll be around another 2hrs+ I hope

@AndyD273 we're on the same train of thought <3

Green

8:28 PM

@dot_Sp0T I'm probably more nitpicky than many about this. The thin blue lines seem small capacity to me and we can't get all the tiny streams in.

Mephistopheles

@AngelPray Magyarországon kibaszottul kicsapta a biztosítékot az Erdélyi szavazatok vásárlása, nagyrész ugyanemiatt. However, if they vote for a regional leader, who later on represent them in a council and those representatives would elect the president, but I'm not 100% sure. Just copy the EU and you should be fine.

Green

@dot_Sp0T fun fact: the visible area of the lake is approximately 5km^2.

dot_Sp0T

@Green upper or lower one?

AngelPray

@MikeNichols All adults are allowed to vote, ideally, it would not have an electoral college system.

dot_Sp0T

@Green I eventually want to get the detail down enough to distinguish single houses, at least I planned this - so yeah, gimme them streams

AngelPray

8:30 PM

Though if that's the only option...

Mind you, it doesn't have to be fair or anything, this is a colonial empire we're talking about, it's just that I don't want the unfairness to be so transparent.

Mike Nichols

@AngelPray What are the other components of the government. is there an elected legislative branch?

AndyD273

@AngelPray Is the government on the mainland?

AngelPray

The seat of government is indeed on the mainland.

Green

@dot_Sp0T upper one. I think of the small one as the Lake and the big one as the ocean.

AngelPray

It is divided into the typical 3 branches.

Mephistopheles

8:32 PM

Sigh, why is the text white when editing?!44!! I can't see sheet.

dot_Sp0T

@Mephistopheles just calm down

AngelPray

@Mephistopheles It wasn't like that before, no idea why it was changed.

Mike Nichols

@AngelPray i would say your best bet is just to make sure the different colonies' political goals don't align. There is no reason they would necessarily be aligned together against their parent country.

AndyD273

@AngelPray That might help solve this issue. It's hard to ignore people when they happen to be right outside the gate, potentially with farming implements and the like. I mean, you can ignore them, but that hasn't always ended well.

dot_Sp0T

@AngelPray if you want to keep power in the mainland, make it retain the majority of votes; otherwise power will shift to where the majority is

AngelPray

8:33 PM

@MikeNichols How would my government make sure that is? That sounds like quite a feat of social engineering.

Mephistopheles

European Union

The European Union (EU) is a political and economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe. It has an area of 4,475,757 km2 (1,728,099 sq mi) and an estimated population of over 510 million. The EU has developed an internal single market through a standardised system of laws that apply in all member states. EU policies aim to ensure the free movement of people, goods, services and capital within the internal market, enact legislation in justice and home affairs and maintain common policies on trade, agriculture, fisheries and regional development. For travel within the...

AngelPray

I guess what I'm asking is: is there any way to set up an unfair democratic process without it being too obvious.

dot_Sp0T

@AngelPray another thing you could do, very mean, but totally fair to everyone: Give every adult a single vote. But only allow them to register their votes in the motherland, allow them free travelling during the voting periods

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T Forced tourism... nice

dot_Sp0T

The point is that, even though most votes are in the colonies, they cannot register them because they lack the wealth to travel for voting

Make it even better by having the people up for election travel the colonies and make speeches

Mike Nichols

8:36 PM

@AngelPray Well, think of some political issues facing your nation and ask where different colonies and groups would stand on these issues. What are the hot button issues that voters are electing on?

AngelPray

So only the minority overseas rich and the mainlanders vote. That's pretty cool.

Mephistopheles

@AngelPray Tekintettel a V4-ekre...

Visegrád Group

The Visegrád Group, Visegrád Four, or V4 is a cultural and political alliance of four Central European states – the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia, that are members of the European Union (EU) and NATO – for the purposes of advancing military, cultural, economic and energy cooperation with one another along with furthering their integration in the EU.The Group traces its origins to the summit meetings of leaders from Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland held in the Hungarian castle-town of Visegrád on 15 February 1991. Visegrád was chosen as the location for the 1991 meeting as ...

dot_Sp0T

And invite people from the colonies that are up for election to the motherland for debates, etc. which doesn't matter - they won't get votes

AngelPray

@MikeNichols Well the thing is is not so much that the mainland and the colonies often have opposing views on things, it's more that they're not focusing on the same matters at all.

dot_Sp0T

@Green could you put down your feedback as a comment on the sandbox post? I don't think I will get to implement it, not even manage to write it down clearly..

AngelPray

8:38 PM

@MikeNichols The mainland is focused on subtle foreign policy issues for instance, while the colonies are focused on farming taxes and such.

AndyD273

When you hear mainland, you kind of picture a very large body of land, which typically means a lot of people. Unless a lot of land is set aside for farming and stuff... is it important to the story that the overseas citizens outnumber the ones on the mainland?

dot_Sp0T

@Mephistopheles also about your sandbox question: Give it at least until friday for now, people will not have time to look at and give feedback otherwise

Mike Nichols

@AngelPray Yes precisely, but won't the issues facing each colony be entirely unique? For instance let's say "Great Britain" has colonies in the "Americas", "Africa", and "India". Three far-flung continents. The American colonies care about reducing trade tariffs. The African colonies are focused on labor rights for factory workers. The Indian colonies are requesting government relief from famine and disease.

Each colony is dealing with piracy and/or native incursions and so wants more military forces dedicated to their region. If the mainland government is shrewd they can play these factions against each other.

Mephistopheles

@dot_Sp0T Okay I guess, can I have multiple questions there?

Mike Nichols

We need to confiscate agricultural exports from the Americas to divert them to famine-racked India. Now India is for this and America against it.

AngelPray

8:43 PM

@AndyD273 Oh yeah, I just used mainland because I couldn't think of the proper word. But no the "mainland" is pretty small compared to the rest of the empire. In size especially, but also in population. There are about two to three times as many people outside of the "mainland" than within it.

Mike Nichols

There are a few issues where the colonies will be naturally aligned in opposition to the wants of the mainland. It would be the job of the mainland diplomats to prevent those issues from being at the forefront of the elector's minds.

dot_Sp0T

@Mephistopheles yes you can, but remember: Everyone that does anything on this forum does it in their free time. Especially the few great folks moderating & maintaining the sandbox. They are not required to give you any feedback. You are not entitled to receive any feedback. Yet they will give feedback and try helping you - show that you make use of this feedback. Interact with them in the comments if anything is unclear or you see it differently - but be nice at all times

@Green also I labelled the left one as 'Also a Lake' - no excuses

peace out o/

Mephistopheles

@dot_Sp0T D00t! I have the emotional intelligence of a banana.

AngelPray

Hmm okay, how about this. Is there any way I can occasionally get someone from the colonies to be the ruler without them doing anything that goes against the interests of the mainland?

Is there any way I could tie their hands in such a way that is still seemingly "fair" unless you look at the issue closely?

AndyD273

@AngelPray Are they supreme ruler? or is there a division, like the three branches of government?

So long as the ruler has to live in the capitol, and doesn't get to just do whatever they want, they can be checked and balanced. Gridlock is our friend

AngelPray

8:51 PM

Oh no, no they're not the supreme ruler. That honor goes to the emperor himself (don't worry it's just a symbolic role). And there is the usual three branches of government as I said earlier.

And why does them having to live in the capital change anything?

But yeah, I don't see why not. Pretty easy to say "well they have to live there, that's where the government operates"

Mike Nichols

@AngelPray Ah, if there is an Emperor then that can be your answer. Perhaps your Emperor technically has the capability to fire the President. The power is used only very rarely, but the unspoken convention is that any President that significantly upset the royals of the mainland would be removed. This is not unlike England's system if I understand it correctly.

AndyD273

Hmm... So the empire as a whole is the nation. So a person from far away island is a citizen just like a person from capitol city. They may want to do something nice for their neighbors but the other branches will help keep that in check, and it could be seen as working against the interests of the nation as a whole...

I don't know, I think I need a nap

AngelPray

@AndyD273 Haha, yeah, sorry about my soporifically inane questions.

AndyD273

@AngelPray It's not you. I didn't sleep very long last night. It's an interesting question.

I don't know if it makes any kind of difference that a lot of tax money is going to be flowing into the mainland, but it will probably make that area pretty wealthy

Also, a lot of people and industry will want to be close to the capitol, just so they can take advantage of government contracts

AngelPray

@AndyD273 Well yeah the mainland is wealthy. That's the point of having a bunch of ~~subservient territories~~.

Uh, I mean regions that are of exactly the same importance as anywhere in the empire.

Totally not exploitation, we "let them vote", see.

Mephistopheles

9:05 PM

I wonder what an assault revolver with a high-capacity magazine would look like.

AngelPray

@MikeNichols I really like that answer actually. But how would that work exactly? How would it be communicated to all prospective policy makers that this unspoken convention is in place?

Green

@dot_Sp0T above is my take on the watershed.

AndyD273

You know, it might be hard for someone from one of those regions to get elected if it's just popular vote. People from island A aren't going to know if the candidate from island B is worth voting for, and if the empire is very large, and they don't have fast communication, it would be hard for people to even know who the other candidates are. So anyone can run, but the chance of actually getting elected is very small.

Green

Steeper areas have straighter paths and less area to collect lots of water. Shallower slopes cause water to slow down and take windy paths.

AndyD273

@Mephistopheles ^^^

Mephistopheles

9:09 PM

Excellent

AndyD273

Well, I'm headed out.

AngelPray

@AndyD273 Bye, thanks for your help, it was actually really useful.

AndyD273

Cool, glad some of my rambling worked :)

Mike Nichols

@AngelPray Well it might not be so much unspoken as it is just “known”. If the legislature does something egregiously opposed to the wishes of the Emperor he will dissolve the legislature and call for new elections. The Emperor would weigh in on any policy matters that he found potentially unacceptable.

Mephistopheles

I found a video on how various places get their names, and how those (d)evolve over time, not related to any discussions here, but still useful

World Building- Creating Place Names Realistically and Artistically

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dot_Sp0T

9:20 PM

@Green you would get rid of the streams that are not coloured red?

Green

9:44 PM

@dot_Sp0T not necessarily. The red lines are my best guess. I thought you'd merge my suggestions with the hat you have. They are suggestions only. I'm happy to offer explanations.

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